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Is the current computer generation absolutely clueless?

G

Gordon

Flightless Bird
I don't think I have EVER seen as many howlers as there are on the MS Win 7
forums, or as many totally dense people.

I certainly don't recall anything LIKE this level of complete ignorance when
XP or Vista came out...
 
A

Alias

Flightless Bird
Gordon wrote:
> I don't think I have EVER seen as many howlers as there are on the MS
> Win 7 forums, or as many totally dense people.
>
> I certainly don't recall anything LIKE this level of complete ignorance
> when XP or Vista came out...


You've given me an idea.

--
Alias
 
M

MJMIII

Flightless Bird
"Gordon" <gordonbparker@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:7rec5fF3iqU1@mid.individual.net...
> I don't think I have EVER seen as many howlers as there are on the MS Win
> 7 forums, or as many totally dense people.
>
> I certainly don't recall anything LIKE this level of complete ignorance
> when XP or Vista came out...


You're now dealing with "know-it-all" kids.
--


"Don't pick a fight with an old man.
If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you."
 
A

Augustus

Flightless Bird

>> I certainly don't recall anything LIKE this level of complete ignorance
>> when XP or Vista came out...


Not when XP came out, no. When Vista came out? It was even worse than this
in the n/g's.
 
Z

Zootal

Flightless Bird
"Gordon" <gordonbparker@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:7rec5fF3iqU1@mid.individual.net:

> I don't think I have EVER seen as many howlers as there are on the MS
> Win 7 forums, or as many totally dense people.
>
> I certainly don't recall anything LIKE this level of complete
> ignorance when XP or Vista came out...
>


I've been a programmer for twenty years, and yes, the current computer
generation is pretty clueless. Back in the good old days, a programmer
had to know how to configure drivers via config.sys to use upper memory,
and as little as possible. We had to know memory managers,
config.sys/autoexec.bat settings, etc. etc. etc. We had to understand
some computer science basics, algorithms, data structures, programming
principles, etc. Kids today are friggin' clueless. c# has dumbed down
programming to an all new dismal level. Give a "programmer" a computer
but take away the mouse and they don't know what to do. I can't believe
how dependent kids today are on guis and menus when there are still
consoles out there that do the same thing faster.

However - when XP came out, it was absolutely wonderful. We were soo
sick and tired of Win98 crashing everytime you passed gas. Win2000 back
then wasn't much better, especially if you got out of the narrow range
of approved hardware and software. XP came out and for the first time
ever, we had an OS that actually worked and was stable.

Vista was like WinME - wtf do we need it for? Why should we waste money
on it? Now we have Windows 7, and not only do we ask what do we need it
for, we find that Microsoft has *forced* gui changes on us that we
didn't ask for and don't want. For 15 years we have been using the
Win95/98 gui style and it works fine. We didn't want or need new gui
styles, we just wanted more stability and compatibility and oh yeah fix
all of the security holes if you can. Instead they change gui styles and
move things around and in general make it harder to use. I'm one of
these howlers - I hate what Microsoft did to Windows 7.

How would you like it if car makers changed the positions of gas and
brake pedals? Reversed the way the steering wheel works? Turned the
drivers seat sideways? Yet microsoft has done stupid things like that to
Windows 7. So of course you get howlers and complainers whining about
Windows 7. It's not ignorance, it's outrage at having new gui styles
forced down our throats.
 
F

Frank

Flightless Bird
Are gordo and cody clueless?...YEP!!!...LOL!

Alias wrote:
> Gordon wrote:
>> I don't think I have EVER seen as many howlers as there are on the MS
>> Win 7 forums, or as many totally dense people.
>>
>> I certainly don't recall anything LIKE this level of complete
>> ignorance when XP or Vista came out...

>
> You've given me an idea.
>

FUCK!!! I bet that hurt!...LOL!
 
O

Ophelia

Flightless Bird
"Zootal" <nospam@spam.zootal.nospam.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9D0267A83F900nospamspamzootalnosp@216.196.97.131...
> "Gordon" <gordonbparker@yahoo.com> wrote in
> news:7rec5fF3iqU1@mid.individual.net:
>
>> I don't think I have EVER seen as many howlers as there are on the MS
>> Win 7 forums, or as many totally dense people.
>>
>> I certainly don't recall anything LIKE this level of complete
>> ignorance when XP or Vista came out...
>>

>
> I've been a programmer for twenty years, and yes, the current computer
> generation is pretty clueless. Back in the good old days, a programmer
> had to know how to configure drivers via config.sys to use upper memory,
> and as little as possible. We had to know memory managers,
> config.sys/autoexec.bat settings, etc. etc. etc. We had to understand
> some computer science basics, algorithms, data structures, programming
> principles, etc. Kids today are friggin' clueless. c# has dumbed down
> programming to an all new dismal level. Give a "programmer" a computer
> but take away the mouse and they don't know what to do. I can't believe
> how dependent kids today are on guis and menus when there are still
> consoles out there that do the same thing faster.
>
> However - when XP came out, it was absolutely wonderful. We were soo
> sick and tired of Win98 crashing everytime you passed gas. Win2000 back
> then wasn't much better, especially if you got out of the narrow range
> of approved hardware and software. XP came out and for the first time
> ever, we had an OS that actually worked and was stable.
>
> Vista was like WinME - wtf do we need it for? Why should we waste money
> on it? Now we have Windows 7, and not only do we ask what do we need it
> for, we find that Microsoft has *forced* gui changes on us that we
> didn't ask for and don't want. For 15 years we have been using the
> Win95/98 gui style and it works fine. We didn't want or need new gui
> styles, we just wanted more stability and compatibility and oh yeah fix
> all of the security holes if you can. Instead they change gui styles and
> move things around and in general make it harder to use. I'm one of
> these howlers - I hate what Microsoft did to Windows 7.
>
> How would you like it if car makers changed the positions of gas and
> brake pedals? Reversed the way the steering wheel works? Turned the
> drivers seat sideways? Yet microsoft has done stupid things like that to
> Windows 7. So of course you get howlers and complainers whining about
> Windows 7. It's not ignorance, it's outrage at having new gui styles
> forced down our throats.


AMEN!

>


--
--
https://www.shop.helpforheroes.org.uk/
 
C

Conor

Flightless Bird
In article <vbn4n.59847$Db2.8455@edtnps83>, Augustus says...
>
> >> I certainly don't recall anything LIKE this level of complete ignorance
> >> when XP or Vista came out...

>
> Not when XP came out, no.


You are either a liar or haven't been into computers that long.

When XP came out, people complained about software not working, hardware
not working, buggy drivers, constant crashes etc. In fact, the
comparisons between XP and Vista were astonishing however people seem to
have short memories. XP only became decent once SP1 came out.

--
Conor
www.notebooks-r-us.co.uk

I'm not prejudiced. I hate everybody equally.
 
C

Conor

Flightless Bird
In article <Xns9D0267A83F900nospamspamzootalnosp@216.196.97.131>, Zootal
says...

> However - when XP came out, it was absolutely wonderful.


Google disagrees. Plenty of hits about software not working, lack of
drivers, poor stability, poor performance...

--
Conor
www.notebooks-r-us.co.uk

I'm not prejudiced. I hate everybody equally.
 
O

Ophelia

Flightless Bird
"Conor" <conor@gmx.co.uk> wrote in message
news:MPG.25bc184512ba2fe4989b8d@news.eternal-september.org...
> In article <vbn4n.59847$Db2.8455@edtnps83>, Augustus says...
>>
>> >> I certainly don't recall anything LIKE this level of complete
>> >> ignorance
>> >> when XP or Vista came out...

>>
>> Not when XP came out, no.

>
> You are either a liar or haven't been into computers that long.
>
> When XP came out, people complained about software not working, hardware
> not working, buggy drivers, constant crashes etc. In fact, the
> comparisons between XP and Vista were astonishing however people seem to
> have short memories. XP only became decent once SP1 came out.


When XP first came out I woudn't touch it. I waited until all the bugs had
been fixed and THEN installed it. I was very happy with it after that and
was very sorry to lose it when I had to have a new machine and Win7!

You are very quick to call others, liars:(

--
--
https://www.shop.helpforheroes.org.uk/
 
S

Slap

Flightless Bird
"Zootal" <nospam@spam.zootal.nospam.com> wrote in message
>
> How would you like it if car makers changed the positions of gas and
> brake pedals? Reversed the way the steering wheel works? Turned the
> drivers seat sideways? Yet microsoft has done stupid things like that to
> Windows 7. So of course you get howlers and complainers whining about
> Windows 7. It's not ignorance, it's outrage at having new gui styles
> forced down our throats.


Well lets see what you are squawking about... a comparative list please.
--
 
C

Charles Tomaras

Flightless Bird
"Zootal" <nospam@spam.zootal.nospam.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9D0267A83F900nospamspamzootalnosp@216.196.97.131...
> I've been a programmer for twenty years, and yes, the current computer
> generation is pretty clueless. Back in the good old days, a programmer
> had to know how to configure drivers via config.sys to use upper memory,
> and as little as possible. We had to know memory managers,
> config.sys/autoexec.bat settings, etc. etc. etc. We had to understand
> some computer science basics, algorithms, data structures, programming
> principles, etc. Kids today are friggin' clueless. c# has dumbed down
> programming to an all new dismal level. Give a "programmer" a computer
> but take away the mouse and they don't know what to do. I can't believe
> how dependent kids today are on guis and menus when there are still
> consoles out there that do the same thing faster.
>
> However - when XP came out, it was absolutely wonderful. We were soo
> sick and tired of Win98 crashing everytime you passed gas. Win2000 back
> then wasn't much better, especially if you got out of the narrow range
> of approved hardware and software. XP came out and for the first time
> ever, we had an OS that actually worked and was stable.
>
> Vista was like WinME - wtf do we need it for? Why should we waste money
> on it? Now we have Windows 7, and not only do we ask what do we need it
> for, we find that Microsoft has *forced* gui changes on us that we
> didn't ask for and don't want. For 15 years we have been using the
> Win95/98 gui style and it works fine. We didn't want or need new gui
> styles, we just wanted more stability and compatibility and oh yeah fix
> all of the security holes if you can. Instead they change gui styles and
> move things around and in general make it harder to use. I'm one of
> these howlers - I hate what Microsoft did to Windows 7.
>
> How would you like it if car makers changed the positions of gas and
> brake pedals? Reversed the way the steering wheel works? Turned the
> drivers seat sideways? Yet microsoft has done stupid things like that to
> Windows 7. So of course you get howlers and complainers whining about
> Windows 7. It's not ignorance, it's outrage at having new gui styles
> forced down our throats.


While you make some interesting points about a newer generation of computer
users you also don't seem to take into account what is really happening with
user interfaces. You are a mechanic who can fix cars, prefers a manual
transmissions, and a tri fold maps. The new automobiles have automatic
transmissions, GPS navigation, sophisticated power systems, auto parking
modes, back up cameras etc etc. Why would you expect computers to follow a
different path? New GUI's with touch and voice control and anything else
that will ultimately allow computer illiterate novices to accomplish tasks
are the future of personal computing. The basic windows interface has
pretty much remained unchanged since Win95 days...how long do you really
expect that to continue. Ford no longer makes the Model T.

You mention that no one wanted a newly updated GUI but I think that sales
statistics for the Windows 7 will prove you wrong on that point because
there is still very little that can't be done with Windows XP.
 
C

Conor

Flightless Bird
In article <N0o4n.1234$SJ7.1114@newsfe07.iad>, Charles Tomaras says...
>
> You are a mechanic who can fix cars, prefers a manual
> transmissions, and a tri fold maps. The new automobiles have automatic
> transmissions, GPS navigation, sophisticated power systems, auto parking
> modes, back up cameras etc etc.


Bad analogy. A mechanic would be expected to know how to do both.
Certainly my training covered both.

--
Conor
www.notebooks-r-us.co.uk

I'm not prejudiced. I hate everybody equally.
 
E

Enkidu

Flightless Bird
Conor wrote:

> In article <Xns9D0267A83F900nospamspamzootalnosp@216.196.97.131>, Zootal
> says...
>
>> However - when XP came out, it was absolutely wonderful.

>
> Google disagrees. Plenty of hits about software not working, lack of
> drivers, poor stability, poor performance...


Yes, but that's relative. Do you remember ME? There is no doubt that XP
was a vast improvement. ME was treated just like Vista . . . people
reverted to Win98 because it was so bad. XP *was* a great improvement,
and after a couple of service packs, it was stable, easy to use, and ran
a wide selection of hardware, including old legacy stuff.

Sure, it had security issues . . . nearly everyone ran as administrator,
either because they had to to run much of the software, or because that
was the default and they didn't know any better. MS could have done a
better job with security from the beginning, but they did improve the
product, and in the end, got things pretty much squared away.

Vista might have been better, but too many people found it unusable
because it didn't run software they needed, wouldn't run hardware they
needed, or they were too inept to understand security and properly set
up their computer. But hey, that describes most users!

--
Enkidu
 
O

Ophelia

Flightless Bird
"Charles Tomaras" <tomaras@tomaras.com> wrote in message
news:N0o4n.1234$SJ7.1114@newsfe07.iad...
> You mention that no one wanted a newly updated GUI but I think that sales
> statistics for the Windows 7 will prove you wrong on that point because
> there is still very little that can't be done with Windows XP.


I think that more to the point, if we need a new computer, we don't have a
choice!

--
--
https://www.shop.helpforheroes.org.uk/
 
F

Fred

Flightless Bird
"Gordon" <gordonbparker@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:7rec5fF3iqU1@mid.individual.net...
>I don't think I have EVER seen as many howlers as there are on the MS Win 7
>forums, or as many totally dense people.
>
> I certainly don't recall anything LIKE this level of complete ignorance
> when XP or Vista came out...

I'm sure most people buy a computer to use. Not to spend half their lives
updating, downloading patches, looking for solutions for problems (but never
called anything but issues). In the early 1900's every motorist knew how to
rebuild his vehicle and do running roadside repairs. Right up until the 60s
most schoolboys could tune an engine, reline brakes etc. Now very few could
even change a spark plug. And that is progress. When computers reach the
stage where only the professionals know how to repair the machine or the
software, then it will really have come of age. So if you notice that we are
heading in that direction- then I can only say that things are improving. In
the meantime users should be encouraged to use this and similar groups to
try and get their heads around the things they need to know without having
to have some 'entry level knowledge', or without being called dense.
 
O

Ophelia

Flightless Bird
"Fred" <reg@parachute.net.nz> wrote in message
news:hit7et$h55$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>
> "Gordon" <gordonbparker@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:7rec5fF3iqU1@mid.individual.net...
>>I don't think I have EVER seen as many howlers as there are on the MS Win
>>7 forums, or as many totally dense people.
>>
>> I certainly don't recall anything LIKE this level of complete ignorance
>> when XP or Vista came out...

> I'm sure most people buy a computer to use. Not to spend half their lives
> updating, downloading patches, looking for solutions for problems (but
> never called anything but issues). In the early 1900's every motorist knew
> how to rebuild his vehicle and do running roadside repairs. Right up until
> the 60s most schoolboys could tune an engine, reline brakes etc. Now very
> few could even change a spark plug. And that is progress. When computers
> reach the stage where only the professionals know how to repair the
> machine or the software, then it will really have come of age. So if you
> notice that we are heading in that direction- then I can only say that
> things are improving. In the meantime users should be encouraged to use
> this and similar groups to try and get their heads around the things they
> need to know without having to have some 'entry level knowledge', or
> without being called dense.


Good post!

--
--
https://www.shop.helpforheroes.org.uk/
 
A

Allen

Flightless Bird
Ophelia wrote:
>
>
> "Zootal" <nospam@spam.zootal.nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns9D0267A83F900nospamspamzootalnosp@216.196.97.131...
>> "Gordon" <gordonbparker@yahoo.com> wrote in
>> news:7rec5fF3iqU1@mid.individual.net:

<snip>
>> How would you like it if car makers changed the positions of gas and
>> brake pedals? Reversed the way the steering wheel works? Turned the
>> drivers seat sideways? Yet microsoft has done stupid things like that to
>> Windows 7. So of course you get howlers and complainers whining about
>> Windows 7. It's not ignorance, it's outrage at having new gui styles
>> forced down our throats.

>
> AMEN!
>
>>

>

Make that double.
Allen
 
Z

Zootal

Flightless Bird
"Ophelia" <Ophelia@Elsinore.me.uk> wrote in
news:7reredFqmaU2@mid.individual.net:

>
>
> "Fred" <reg@parachute.net.nz> wrote in message
> news:hit7et$h55$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>>
>> "Gordon" <gordonbparker@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:7rec5fF3iqU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>I don't think I have EVER seen as many howlers as there are on the MS
>>>Win 7 forums, or as many totally dense people.
>>>
>>> I certainly don't recall anything LIKE this level of complete
>>> ignorance when XP or Vista came out...


>> I'm sure most people buy a computer to use. Not to spend half their
>> lives updating, downloading patches, looking for solutions for
>> problems (but never called anything but issues). In the early 1900's
>> every motorist knew how to rebuild his vehicle and do running
>> roadside repairs. Right up until the 60s most schoolboys could tune
>> an engine, reline brakes etc. Now very few could even change a spark
>> plug. And that is progress. When computers reach the stage where only
>> the professionals know how to repair the machine or the software,
>> then it will really have come of age. So if you notice that we are
>> heading in that direction- then I can only say that things are
>> improving. In the meantime users should be encouraged to use this and
>> similar groups to try and get their heads around the things they need
>> to know without having to have some 'entry level knowledge', or
>> without being called dense.

>
> Good post!
>



Yes and no. The age of computers similar to cars in the early 1900's was
when cpm machines were the latest and greatest, and only the technically
adept could actually do anything with them.

The era we are discussing started in the early 1990s when Windows 3.x came
of age, quickly followed by Win95. Back then, the OS was just as mysterious
and difficult to work with as it is today. Little has changed - we moved
from ini files to the registry, we can no longer SYS a drive to boot the
OS, the OS is insanely more complex and is much larger, but neither the so
called professionals nor the home users know any more about the OS today
than they did back then. We are not at all moving in the direction where
only the Pro's can repair a machine or the software - we arrived there 20
years ago. Cars arrived there at the end of the 1960s with the advent of
emmission control devices and them thar new fangled computer controls.
 
F

Fred

Flightless Bird
"Zootal" <nospam@spam.zootal.nospam.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9D02964DB9581nospamspamzootalnosp@216.196.97.131...
> "Ophelia" <Ophelia@Elsinore.me.uk> wrote in
> news:7reredFqmaU2@mid.individual.net:
>
>>
>>
>> "Fred" <reg@parachute.net.nz> wrote in message
>> news:hit7et$h55$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>
>>> "Gordon" <gordonbparker@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>> news:7rec5fF3iqU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>I don't think I have EVER seen as many howlers as there are on the MS
>>>>Win 7 forums, or as many totally dense people.
>>>>
>>>> I certainly don't recall anything LIKE this level of complete
>>>> ignorance when XP or Vista came out...

>
>>> I'm sure most people buy a computer to use. Not to spend half their
>>> lives updating, downloading patches, looking for solutions for
>>> problems (but never called anything but issues). In the early 1900's
>>> every motorist knew how to rebuild his vehicle and do running
>>> roadside repairs. Right up until the 60s most schoolboys could tune
>>> an engine, reline brakes etc. Now very few could even change a spark
>>> plug. And that is progress. When computers reach the stage where only
>>> the professionals know how to repair the machine or the software,
>>> then it will really have come of age. So if you notice that we are
>>> heading in that direction- then I can only say that things are
>>> improving. In the meantime users should be encouraged to use this and
>>> similar groups to try and get their heads around the things they need
>>> to know without having to have some 'entry level knowledge', or
>>> without being called dense.

>>
>> Good post!
>>

>
>
> Yes and no. The age of computers similar to cars in the early 1900's was
> when cpm machines were the latest and greatest, and only the technically
> adept could actually do anything with them.
>
> The era we are discussing started in the early 1990s when Windows 3.x came
> of age, quickly followed by Win95. Back then, the OS was just as
> mysterious
> and difficult to work with as it is today. Little has changed - we moved
> from ini files to the registry, we can no longer SYS a drive to boot the
> OS, the OS is insanely more complex and is much larger, but neither the so
> called professionals nor the home users know any more about the OS today
> than they did back then. We are not at all moving in the direction where
> only the Pro's can repair a machine or the software - we arrived there 20
> years ago. Cars arrived there at the end of the 1960s with the advent of
> emmission control devices and them thar new fangled computer controls.


Cars may not be the perfect analogy, but he point is newbies should feel
free to post here in the hope of getting some help, and there are some who
are prepared to help. If you aren't prepared to offer the benefit of your
knowledge and assist, that's fine - juust ignore the post, but nobody wins
when posters waste their time criticizing and abusing others.
 
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