1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

OT: Windows 7 (XP with a new look!)

Discussion in 'Windows XP' started by RJK, Jan 11, 2010.

  1. RJK

    RJK Flightless Bird

    What a heap of crap, ...not just Windows 7 but, also the Asus X5DIJ laptop
    that I just bought for my Aunty !!!

    Having just finished a late shift at work, I thought I'd run the Asus
    "Recovery Disc Creation" procedure, (Laptop arrived this morning, just
    before I had to go to work), so that it gets done. ....ready for when I
    take it in to her tommorrow morning. The supplied "AI Recovery" has been
    running for over 45 minutes, first creating a backup image, then ISO files,
    ....then it finally burnt the 1st ISO image to DVD+r ...or they may be -r'
    discs btw, not sure now, (good wuality ones btw), ....and then the f*****g
    thing decided to verify the first DVD+r that had been burnt.

    Over 45 minutes !!!!!, ...it's 00:55am, I would really like to go to bed and
    sleep !!!, ...and it was still verifying that 1st DVD+r when I came out to
    my office here to have a rant.
    I'm 54 years old and have been using PC's since they were invented, and with
    all the hardware and software "development" across the past THIRTY years
    there appears to be NO decrease in the time it takes the b****y things to
    b****y well get on and do something !!!

    During recent months, I've been used to Norton Ghost 14.0 backing up my main
    PC hard-drive in less than 6 minutes (internal SATAII hd to SATAII hd's).
    So quite what this heap of crap is up to - goodness only knows !

    best regards,

    Richard
     
  2. Stan Starinski

    Stan Starinski Flightless Bird

    Re: Windows 7 (XP with a new look!)

    > I'm 54 years old and have been using PC's since they were invented

    So you started in 1976?
    By the way, Asus is not a bad brand, it's favored by techies,
    do-it-yourselves, etc., it's not a "cozy" brand like Apple. Their specialty
    is bare-bone motherboards for desktops, and sleek laptops with more
    substance, than appearance.
    Despite that I'll still buy an HP again, when it's time, for political
    reasons (too long to explain why).

    Second, Windows7's been perfect here, as well.

    I think you were having a bad day/bad luck, and no reason to blame either
    Asus or Windows7.
    When you write optical disks e.g. DVDR, be sure to select most conservative
    settings, without bells & whistles of "life file system", UDF and other
    invitations for trouble.
    Choose Mastering, Disk-at-Once, maximum compatibility and don't let it run
    too clos eot capacity limit, AND make sure long filenames are not nested too
    deeply inside filetrees., AND make sure your DVD writing software is set up
    to "verify" disk after writing.
    It takes a long time even on most pwerful computers, but if you write
    critical data, time is not the priority. Quality is.
     
  3. PA Bear [MS MVP]

    PA Bear [MS MVP] Flightless Bird

    Re: Windows 7 (XP with a new look!)

    WTF are you polluting Vista & WinXP newsgroups with this rant, Richard?

    <re-plonk>


    RJK wrote:
    > What a heap of crap, ...not just Windows 7 but, also the Asus X5DIJ laptop
    > that I just bought for my Aunty !!!
    >
    > Having just finished a late shift at work, I thought I'd run the Asus
    > "Recovery Disc Creation" procedure, (Laptop arrived this morning, just
    > before I had to go to work), so that it gets done. ....ready for when I
    > take it in to her tommorrow morning. The supplied "AI Recovery" has been
    > running for over 45 minutes, first creating a backup image, then ISO
    > files,
    > ...then it finally burnt the 1st ISO image to DVD+r ...or they may be -r'
    > discs btw, not sure now, (good wuality ones btw), ....and then the f*****g
    > thing decided to verify the first DVD+r that had been burnt.
    >
    > Over 45 minutes !!!!!, ...it's 00:55am, I would really like to go to bed
    > and
    > sleep !!!, ...and it was still verifying that 1st DVD+r when I came out
    > to
    > my office here to have a rant.
    > I'm 54 years old and have been using PC's since they were invented, and
    > with
    > all the hardware and software "development" across the past THIRTY years
    > there appears to be NO decrease in the time it takes the b****y things to
    > b****y well get on and do something !!!
    >
    > During recent months, I've been used to Norton Ghost 14.0 backing up my
    > main
    > PC hard-drive in less than 6 minutes (internal SATAII hd to SATAII hd's).
    > So quite what this heap of crap is up to - goodness only knows !
    >
    > best regards,
    >
    > Richard
     
  4. RJK

    RJK Flightless Bird

    Re: Windows 7 (XP with a new look!)

    "Stan Starinski" <China@stealsUSJobsPatentsSoftwareMusicVideo> wrote in
    message news:ep$dsKZkKHA.4912@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
    >> I'm 54 years old and have been using PC's since they were invented

    >
    > So you started in 1976?
    > By the way, Asus is not a bad brand, it's favored by techies,
    > do-it-yourselves, etc., it's not a "cozy" brand like Apple. Their
    > specialty is bare-bone motherboards for desktops, and sleek laptops with
    > more substance, than appearance.
    > Despite that I'll still buy an HP again, when it's time, for political
    > reasons (too long to explain why).
    >
    > Second, Windows7's been perfect here, as well.
    >
    > I think you were having a bad day/bad luck, and no reason to blame either
    > Asus or Windows7.
    > When you write optical disks e.g. DVDR, be sure to select most
    > conservative settings, without bells & whistles of "life file system", UDF
    > and other invitations for trouble.
    > Choose Mastering, Disk-at-Once, maximum compatibility and don't let it run
    > too clos eot capacity limit, AND make sure long filenames are not nested
    > too deeply inside filetrees., AND make sure your DVD writing software is
    > set up to "verify" disk after writing.
    > It takes a long time even on most pwerful computers, but if you write
    > critical data, time is not the priority. Quality is.


    hi :) ...can't really remember year - 1st PC was 8086 8mhz with
    512kb+128kb=640kb ...oh those wonderful days when one fought with
    Quarterdeck to get everything stuffed into that high memory area !
    ...and manually configuring DOS 3.2's himem.sys and emm386.exe etc !
    (extended mem. manager and expanded memory manager etc. !)
    DOS 2.1 and another OS was shipped with it ...until MSDOS won the day !

    Asus x5DIJ looks and feels lovely, and Windows 7 is responsive and lovely
    but, why on earth I'm here at 1:30am still waiting for this "AI Recovery"
    software to produce 4 x DVD's is somewhat disappointing to say the least !

    regards, Richard
     
  5. Shenan Stanley

    Shenan Stanley Flightless Bird

    Re: Windows 7 (XP with a new look!)

    RJK wrote:
    > What a heap of crap, ...not just Windows 7 but, also the Asus X5DIJ
    > laptop that I just bought for my Aunty !!!
    >
    > Having just finished a late shift at work, I thought I'd run the
    > Asus "Recovery Disc Creation" procedure, (Laptop arrived this
    > morning, just before I had to go to work), so that it gets done. ....ready
    > for when I take it in to her tommorrow morning. The supplied "AI
    > Recovery" has been running for over 45 minutes, first
    > creating a backup image, then ISO files, ...then it finally burnt
    > the 1st ISO image to DVD+r ...or they may be -r' discs btw, not
    > sure now, (good wuality ones btw), ....and then the f*****g thing
    > decided to verify the first DVD+r that had been burnt.
    > Over 45 minutes !!!!!, ...it's 00:55am, I would really like to go
    > to bed and sleep !!!, ...and it was still verifying that 1st DVD+r
    > when I came out to my office here to have a rant.
    > I'm 54 years old and have been using PC's since they were invented,
    > and with all the hardware and software "development" across the
    > past THIRTY years there appears to be NO decrease in the time it
    > takes the b****y things to b****y well get on and do something !!!
    >
    > During recent months, I've been used to Norton Ghost 14.0 backing
    > up my main PC hard-drive in less than 6 minutes (internal SATAII hd
    > to SATAII hd's). So quite what this heap of crap is up to -
    > goodness only knows !


    What does the OEM's restoration/recovery disc creation methodology have to
    do with your subject?

    Windows 7 is not the reason for your issue. The poor decision not to insist
    on actual installation media for the software installed on the system and
    not just some procedure to make the media/restore from disk is closer to the
    reason.

    Windows 7 is far from "XP with a new look" IMHO. Maybe Vista with all the
    issues fixed.

    --
    Shenan Stanley
    MS-MVP
    --
    How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
    http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
     
  6. Stan Starinski

    Stan Starinski Flightless Bird

    Re: Windows 7 (XP with a new look!)

    I am today 37, born/raised in Europe
    I'd agree 8086 was one of the early "practical" PC's. Can never tell
    who/what was "precisely" first. - often there're multiple events, people or
    products. There were people before Einstein with similar equations but he
    got his Theory officially presented.

    But strictly speaking earliest PC's were long before 8086. First off, the
    number "80" appearing in immense number of IC chips of that era simply
    indicates the decade - 1980's.
    But before that - even I remember using it, we had 8080, truly the first
    practical Microprocessor - by Intel, piror to that we had all kinds of "do
    it yourself" kits including venerable Apple in 1976, base don Motorola MP.
    It is therefore a custom to specify the birth of PC's as 1976 Apple. THAT I
    obviously can't remember (was 4 year sold!).

    But IBM quickly seized initiative from "hobbyist" Apple, and produced an
    industrial/business version called simply IBM PC, that's when I'd like to
    put a mark because they were first to market the term "PC" as opposed to
    mainframes of previous era (even if Apple used the term, it wasn't a TM).
    1980 was a crucial year

    Some years later, I remember reading "Life & Science" magazine in that
    country where I was born, by which time USA already had IBM PC XT & RT, and
    even a hardisk called "winchester" then with a whopping 1MB size!! It cost
    like a medium car, and breaking down as a habit. But we couldn't have even
    that.
    In my country we had to use crap, but we had best programmers - the irony!
    SO the flow started - brains flew to America, hardware flew to that country.
    As soon as we got here (a few of my relatives been living in North America
    for at least a century, but we were late), I grabbed a free gift from my
    father's former wife's new husband. he was a radiologist (medical), and he
    was about to throw out 8086-based PC AT (?), its memory was cutting off at
    some small number and stopped self test w/failure.
    Well I took it apart and fixed memory by moving banks around until I hit the
    bad one, and removed it; maxiumum was 640KB. That was a huge number, as
    prior to that our High School "gang' built Z80 gaming machines where 32Kb
    was considered an achievement, more often it was 16KB memory.

    It sounds ridiculous now, but... people really had to use brains to program
    it.
    Every byte was precious. I did some insane tricks, like resuing the same
    memory byte for both instruction, brnach jump address or data - when they
    coincided, things which would be illegal in progrmaming today.

    Anyway, 8086 is too powerful to call "first".
    Try i8080, Zilog Z80, Motorola 68000.

    To me Z80 has the most meaning, I was 16.... that microprocessor was ceated
    by geniuses in California (?), it was too good for its time. It was so
    cheap, robust, reliable that BELIEVE it or not, still used in appliances,
    home automation, etc. Smaller, expanded versions, but same core
    architecture.
    That is not related to Intel i80xx series or Motorola.
     
  7. Peter Foldes

    Peter Foldes Flightless Bird

    Re: Windows 7 (XP with a new look!)

    Richard

    Why this rant and why here in the XP and Vista groups. You should have made sure
    that you got the correct install media beforehand

    --
    Peter

    Please Reply to Newsgroup for the benefit of others
    Requests for assistance by email can not and will not be acknowledged.

    "RJK" <nosuch@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:%23YJrUCZkKHA.3476@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
    > What a heap of crap, ...not just Windows 7 but, also the Asus X5DIJ laptop that I
    > just bought for my Aunty !!!
    >
    > Having just finished a late shift at work, I thought I'd run the Asus "Recovery
    > Disc Creation" procedure, (Laptop arrived this morning, just before I had to go to
    > work), so that it gets done. ....ready for when I take it in to her tommorrow
    > morning. The supplied "AI Recovery" has been running for over 45 minutes, first
    > creating a backup image, then ISO files, ...then it finally burnt the 1st ISO
    > image to DVD+r ...or they may be -r' discs btw, not sure now, (good wuality ones
    > btw), ....and then the f*****g thing decided to verify the first DVD+r that had
    > been burnt.
    >
    > Over 45 minutes !!!!!, ...it's 00:55am, I would really like to go to bed and sleep
    > !!!, ...and it was still verifying that 1st DVD+r when I came out to my office
    > here to have a rant.
    > I'm 54 years old and have been using PC's since they were invented, and with all
    > the hardware and software "development" across the past THIRTY years there appears
    > to be NO decrease in the time it takes the b****y things to b****y well get on and
    > do something !!!
    >
    > During recent months, I've been used to Norton Ghost 14.0 backing up my main PC
    > hard-drive in less than 6 minutes (internal SATAII hd to SATAII hd's). So quite
    > what this heap of crap is up to - goodness only knows !
    >
    > best regards,
    >
    > Richard
    >
     
  8. Bill in Co.

    Bill in Co. Flightless Bird

    Re: Windows 7 (XP with a new look!)

    Stan Starinski wrote:
    > I am today 37, born/raised in Europe
    > I'd agree 8086 was one of the early "practical" PC's. Can never tell
    > who/what was "precisely" first. - often there're multiple events, people
    > or
    > products. There were people before Einstein with similar equations but he
    > got his Theory officially presented.
    >
    > But strictly speaking earliest PC's were long before 8086. First off, the
    > number "80" appearing in immense number of IC chips of that era simply
    > indicates the decade - 1980's.
    > But before that - even I remember using it, we had 8080, truly the first
    > practical Microprocessor - by Intel, piror to that we had all kinds of "do
    > it yourself" kits including venerable Apple in 1976, base don Motorola MP.
    > It is therefore a custom to specify the birth of PC's as 1976 Apple. THAT
    > I
    > obviously can't remember (was 4 year sold!).
    >
    > But IBM quickly seized initiative from "hobbyist" Apple, and produced an
    > industrial/business version called simply IBM PC, that's when I'd like to
    > put a mark because they were first to market the term "PC" as opposed to
    > mainframes of previous era (even if Apple used the term, it wasn't a TM).
    > 1980 was a crucial year
    >
    > Some years later, I remember reading "Life & Science" magazine in that
    > country where I was born, by which time USA already had IBM PC XT & RT,
    > and
    > even a hardisk called "winchester" then with a whopping 1MB size!! It
    > cost
    > like a medium car, and breaking down as a habit. But we couldn't have
    > even
    > that.
    > In my country we had to use crap, but we had best programmers - the irony!
    > SO the flow started - brains flew to America, hardware flew to that
    > country.
    > As soon as we got here (a few of my relatives been living in North America
    > for at least a century, but we were late), I grabbed a free gift from my
    > father's former wife's new husband. he was a radiologist (medical), and
    > he
    > was about to throw out 8086-based PC AT (?), its memory was cutting off at
    > some small number and stopped self test w/failure.
    > Well I took it apart and fixed memory by moving banks around until I hit
    > the
    > bad one, and removed it; maxiumum was 640KB. That was a huge number, as
    > prior to that our High School "gang' built Z80 gaming machines where 32Kb
    > was considered an achievement, more often it was 16KB memory.
    >
    > It sounds ridiculous now, but... people really had to use brains to
    > program
    > it.
    > Every byte was precious. I did some insane tricks, like resuing the same
    > memory byte for both instruction, brnach jump address or data - when they
    > coincided, things which would be illegal in progrmaming today.
    >
    > Anyway, 8086 is too powerful to call "first".
    > Try i8080, Zilog Z80, Motorola 68000.


    You mean 6800.
    And don't forget the 6502 (used in Apple II).
     
  9. Bill in Co.

    Bill in Co. Flightless Bird

    Re: Windows 7 (XP with a new look!)

    RJK wrote:
    > What a heap of crap, ...not just Windows 7 but, also the Asus X5DIJ laptop
    > that I just bought for my Aunty !!!
    >
    > Having just finished a late shift at work, I thought I'd run the Asus
    > "Recovery Disc Creation" procedure, (Laptop arrived this morning, just
    > before I had to go to work), so that it gets done. ....ready for when I
    > take it in to her tommorrow morning. The supplied "AI Recovery" has been
    > running for over 45 minutes, first creating a backup image, then ISO
    > files,
    > ...then it finally burnt the 1st ISO image to DVD+r ...or they may be -r'
    > discs btw, not sure now, (good wuality ones btw), ....and then the f*****g
    > thing decided to verify the first DVD+r that had been burnt.
    >
    > Over 45 minutes !!!!!, ...it's 00:55am, I would really like to go to bed
    > and
    > sleep !!!, ...and it was still verifying that 1st DVD+r when I came out
    > to
    > my office here to have a rant.
    > I'm 54 years old and have been using PC's since they were invented, and
    > with
    > all the hardware and software "development" across the past THIRTY years
    > there appears to be NO decrease in the time it takes the b****y things to
    > b****y well get on and do something !!!
    >
    > During recent months, I've been used to Norton Ghost 14.0 backing up my
    > main
    > PC hard-drive in less than 6 minutes (internal SATAII hd to SATAII hd's).
    > So quite what this heap of crap is up to - goodness only knows !
    >
    > best regards,
    >
    > Richard


    Obviously one should use a disk cloning or disk imaging program. This has
    nothing to do with Windows 7.
     
  10. Ian D

    Ian D Flightless Bird

    Re: Windows 7 (XP with a new look!)

    "Stan Starinski" <China@stealsUSJobsPatentsSoftwareMusicVideo> wrote in
    message news:eICfZzZkKHA.1540@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
    >I am today 37, born/raised in Europe
    > I'd agree 8086 was one of the early "practical" PC's. Can never tell
    > who/what was "precisely" first. - often there're multiple events, people
    > or products. There were people before Einstein with similar equations but
    > he got his Theory officially presented.
    >
    > But strictly speaking earliest PC's were long before 8086. First off, the
    > number "80" appearing in immense number of IC chips of that era simply
    > indicates the decade - 1980's.
    > But before that - even I remember using it, we had 8080, truly the first
    > practical Microprocessor - by Intel, piror to that we had all kinds of "do
    > it yourself" kits including venerable Apple in 1976, base don Motorola MP.
    > It is therefore a custom to specify the birth of PC's as 1976 Apple. THAT
    > I obviously can't remember (was 4 year sold!).
    >
    > But IBM quickly seized initiative from "hobbyist" Apple, and produced an
    > industrial/business version called simply IBM PC, that's when I'd like to
    > put a mark because they were first to market the term "PC" as opposed to
    > mainframes of previous era (even if Apple used the term, it wasn't a TM).
    > 1980 was a crucial year
    >
    > Some years later, I remember reading "Life & Science" magazine in that
    > country where I was born, by which time USA already had IBM PC XT & RT,
    > and even a hardisk called "winchester" then with a whopping 1MB size!! It
    > cost like a medium car, and breaking down as a habit. But we couldn't
    > have even that.
    > In my country we had to use crap, but we had best programmers - the irony!
    > SO the flow started - brains flew to America, hardware flew to that
    > country.
    > As soon as we got here (a few of my relatives been living in North America
    > for at least a century, but we were late), I grabbed a free gift from my
    > father's former wife's new husband. he was a radiologist (medical), and
    > he was about to throw out 8086-based PC AT (?), its memory was cutting off
    > at some small number and stopped self test w/failure.
    > Well I took it apart and fixed memory by moving banks around until I hit
    > the bad one, and removed it; maxiumum was 640KB. That was a huge number,
    > as prior to that our High School "gang' built Z80 gaming machines where
    > 32Kb was considered an achievement, more often it was 16KB memory.
    >
    > It sounds ridiculous now, but... people really had to use brains to
    > program it.
    > Every byte was precious. I did some insane tricks, like resuing the same
    > memory byte for both instruction, brnach jump address or data - when they
    > coincided, things which would be illegal in progrmaming today.
    >
    > Anyway, 8086 is too powerful to call "first".
    > Try i8080, Zilog Z80, Motorola 68000.
    >
    > To me Z80 has the most meaning, I was 16.... that microprocessor was
    > ceated by geniuses in California (?), it was too good for its time. It
    > was so cheap, robust, reliable that BELIEVE it or not, still used in
    > appliances, home automation, etc. Smaller, expanded versions, but same
    > core architecture.
    > That is not related to Intel i80xx series or Motorola.


    The first microprocessor was the Intel 4004. It consisted of two 4
    bit chips. These were combined into the 8008, the first 8 bit CPU.
    That's where the 80 designation started. The first practical CPU,
    the 8080, capable of running BASIC, was introduced in 1974.
    The first hobbyist 8080 kit was the 1975 MITS Altair 8800, which
    also used the S-100 bus, which was the defacto standard until
    the introduction of the IBM PC with the ISA bus.

    The first mass produced systems were the Apple II, and the
    Radio Shack TRS-80, both introduced in 1977. The Apple II
    was the first to use color graphics.
     
  11. Bill in Co.

    Bill in Co. Flightless Bird

    Re: Windows 7 (XP with a new look!)

    Ian D wrote:
    > "Stan Starinski" <China@stealsUSJobsPatentsSoftwareMusicVideo> wrote in
    > message news:eICfZzZkKHA.1540@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
    >> I am today 37, born/raised in Europe
    >> I'd agree 8086 was one of the early "practical" PC's. Can never tell
    >> who/what was "precisely" first. - often there're multiple events, people
    >> or products. There were people before Einstein with similar equations
    >> but
    >> he got his Theory officially presented.
    >>
    >> But strictly speaking earliest PC's were long before 8086. First off,
    >> the
    >> number "80" appearing in immense number of IC chips of that era simply
    >> indicates the decade - 1980's.
    >> But before that - even I remember using it, we had 8080, truly the first
    >> practical Microprocessor - by Intel, piror to that we had all kinds of
    >> "do
    >> it yourself" kits including venerable Apple in 1976, base don Motorola
    >> MP.
    >> It is therefore a custom to specify the birth of PC's as 1976 Apple.
    >> THAT
    >> I obviously can't remember (was 4 year sold!).
    >>
    >> But IBM quickly seized initiative from "hobbyist" Apple, and produced an
    >> industrial/business version called simply IBM PC, that's when I'd like to
    >> put a mark because they were first to market the term "PC" as opposed to
    >> mainframes of previous era (even if Apple used the term, it wasn't a TM).
    >> 1980 was a crucial year
    >>
    >> Some years later, I remember reading "Life & Science" magazine in that
    >> country where I was born, by which time USA already had IBM PC XT & RT,
    >> and even a hardisk called "winchester" then with a whopping 1MB size!!
    >> It
    >> cost like a medium car, and breaking down as a habit. But we couldn't
    >> have even that.
    >> In my country we had to use crap, but we had best programmers - the
    >> irony!
    >> SO the flow started - brains flew to America, hardware flew to that
    >> country.
    >> As soon as we got here (a few of my relatives been living in North
    >> America
    >> for at least a century, but we were late), I grabbed a free gift from my
    >> father's former wife's new husband. he was a radiologist (medical), and
    >> he was about to throw out 8086-based PC AT (?), its memory was cutting
    >> off
    >> at some small number and stopped self test w/failure.
    >> Well I took it apart and fixed memory by moving banks around until I hit
    >> the bad one, and removed it; maxiumum was 640KB. That was a huge number,
    >> as prior to that our High School "gang' built Z80 gaming machines where
    >> 32Kb was considered an achievement, more often it was 16KB memory.
    >>
    >> It sounds ridiculous now, but... people really had to use brains to
    >> program it.
    >> Every byte was precious. I did some insane tricks, like resuing the same
    >> memory byte for both instruction, brnach jump address or data - when they
    >> coincided, things which would be illegal in progrmaming today.
    >>
    >> Anyway, 8086 is too powerful to call "first".
    >> Try i8080, Zilog Z80, Motorola 68000.


    6800, not 68000.

    >> To me Z80 has the most meaning, I was 16.... that microprocessor was
    >> ceated by geniuses in California (?), it was too good for its time. It
    >> was so cheap, robust, reliable that BELIEVE it or not, still used in
    >> appliances, home automation, etc. Smaller, expanded versions, but same
    >> core architecture.
    >> That is not related to Intel i80xx series or Motorola.

    >
    > The first microprocessor was the Intel 4004.


    Thanks for bringing that up. - I couldn't remember the 4xxx number!!

    > It consisted of two 4
    > bit chips. These were combined into the 8008, the first 8 bit CPU.
    > That's where the 80 designation started. The first practical CPU,
    > the 8080, capable of running BASIC, was introduced in 1974.
    > The first hobbyist 8080 kit was the 1975 MITS Altair 8800, which
    > also used the S-100 bus, which was the defacto standard until
    > the introduction of the IBM PC with the ISA bus.
    >
    > The first mass produced systems were the Apple II, and the


    With the 6502.

    > Radio Shack TRS-80, both introduced in 1977.


    Don't remember what up the Trash 80 used, but think it was one of the Intel
    8xxx series, not Motorola. Or maybe the Z-80??? Yeah, I think it was
    the Z-80.

    > The Apple II was the first to use color graphics.


    I guess Atari and Commodore followed soon afterward, but my memory is
    fading.
     
  12. Russ SBITS.Biz [SBS-MVP]

    Russ SBITS.Biz [SBS-MVP] Flightless Bird

    Re: Windows 7 (XP with a new look!)

    Timex Sinclair 1000 Z80 CPU
    1K Memory with a 16K expanstion Memory Module.
    Chicklet keyboard and it hooked to a TV
    Yup I had one!

    Also remember Osborne Computers?
    One of the first Portables
    (I think it was 50lbs?)
    No battery of course.
    :)
    Russ
    --
    Russell Grover - SBITS.Biz [SBS-MVP]
    Microsoft Gold Certified Partner
    Microsoft Certified Small Business Specialist
    World Wide 24hr SBS Remote Support - http://www.SBITS.Biz
    Microsoft Online Services - http://www.microsoft-online-services.com


    "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
    news:uynO8QbkKHA.1864@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
    > Ian D wrote:
    >> "Stan Starinski" <China@stealsUSJobsPatentsSoftwareMusicVideo> wrote in
    >> message news:eICfZzZkKHA.1540@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
    >>> I am today 37, born/raised in Europe
    >>> I'd agree 8086 was one of the early "practical" PC's. Can never tell
    >>> who/what was "precisely" first. - often there're multiple events, people
    >>> or products. There were people before Einstein with similar equations
    >>> but
    >>> he got his Theory officially presented.
    >>>
    >>> But strictly speaking earliest PC's were long before 8086. First off,
    >>> the
    >>> number "80" appearing in immense number of IC chips of that era simply
    >>> indicates the decade - 1980's.
    >>> But before that - even I remember using it, we had 8080, truly the first
    >>> practical Microprocessor - by Intel, piror to that we had all kinds of
    >>> "do
    >>> it yourself" kits including venerable Apple in 1976, base don Motorola
    >>> MP.
    >>> It is therefore a custom to specify the birth of PC's as 1976 Apple.
    >>> THAT
    >>> I obviously can't remember (was 4 year sold!).
    >>>
    >>> But IBM quickly seized initiative from "hobbyist" Apple, and produced an
    >>> industrial/business version called simply IBM PC, that's when I'd like
    >>> to
    >>> put a mark because they were first to market the term "PC" as opposed to
    >>> mainframes of previous era (even if Apple used the term, it wasn't a
    >>> TM).
    >>> 1980 was a crucial year
    >>>
    >>> Some years later, I remember reading "Life & Science" magazine in that
    >>> country where I was born, by which time USA already had IBM PC XT & RT,
    >>> and even a hardisk called "winchester" then with a whopping 1MB size!!
    >>> It
    >>> cost like a medium car, and breaking down as a habit. But we couldn't
    >>> have even that.
    >>> In my country we had to use crap, but we had best programmers - the
    >>> irony!
    >>> SO the flow started - brains flew to America, hardware flew to that
    >>> country.
    >>> As soon as we got here (a few of my relatives been living in North
    >>> America
    >>> for at least a century, but we were late), I grabbed a free gift from my
    >>> father's former wife's new husband. he was a radiologist (medical), and
    >>> he was about to throw out 8086-based PC AT (?), its memory was cutting
    >>> off
    >>> at some small number and stopped self test w/failure.
    >>> Well I took it apart and fixed memory by moving banks around until I hit
    >>> the bad one, and removed it; maxiumum was 640KB. That was a huge
    >>> number,
    >>> as prior to that our High School "gang' built Z80 gaming machines where
    >>> 32Kb was considered an achievement, more often it was 16KB memory.
    >>>
    >>> It sounds ridiculous now, but... people really had to use brains to
    >>> program it.
    >>> Every byte was precious. I did some insane tricks, like resuing the
    >>> same
    >>> memory byte for both instruction, brnach jump address or data - when
    >>> they
    >>> coincided, things which would be illegal in progrmaming today.
    >>>
    >>> Anyway, 8086 is too powerful to call "first".
    >>> Try i8080, Zilog Z80, Motorola 68000.

    >
    > 6800, not 68000.
    >
    >>> To me Z80 has the most meaning, I was 16.... that microprocessor was
    >>> ceated by geniuses in California (?), it was too good for its time. It
    >>> was so cheap, robust, reliable that BELIEVE it or not, still used in
    >>> appliances, home automation, etc. Smaller, expanded versions, but same
    >>> core architecture.
    >>> That is not related to Intel i80xx series or Motorola.

    >>
    >> The first microprocessor was the Intel 4004.

    >
    > Thanks for bringing that up. - I couldn't remember the 4xxx number!!
    >
    >> It consisted of two 4
    >> bit chips. These were combined into the 8008, the first 8 bit CPU.
    >> That's where the 80 designation started. The first practical CPU,
    >> the 8080, capable of running BASIC, was introduced in 1974.
    >> The first hobbyist 8080 kit was the 1975 MITS Altair 8800, which
    >> also used the S-100 bus, which was the defacto standard until
    >> the introduction of the IBM PC with the ISA bus.
    >>
    >> The first mass produced systems were the Apple II, and the

    >
    > With the 6502.
    >
    >> Radio Shack TRS-80, both introduced in 1977.

    >
    > Don't remember what up the Trash 80 used, but think it was one of the
    > Intel 8xxx series, not Motorola. Or maybe the Z-80??? Yeah, I think
    > it was the Z-80.
    >
    >> The Apple II was the first to use color graphics.

    >
    > I guess Atari and Commodore followed soon afterward, but my memory is
    > fading.
    >
     
  13. Russ SBITS.Biz [SBS-MVP]

    Russ SBITS.Biz [SBS-MVP] Flightless Bird

    I actually would not want to go back to shoving everything under 512k and
    trying to get
    Logitec Mouse
    Banyan, Novell, and OpenNET Drivers loaded.
    (386 MAX was the only tool to do it.)
    And IRQ's OH Boy Fun!

    And even worse was hard Drives, You had to LOW level Format them
    and if you didn't have a COMPU$ERVE Accout for $50 bucks a month (YES $50
    Bucks for a BBS)
    You couldn't get any information on the hard drive sectors cylinders etc.

    So going back? No thanks
    I'll take PNP Image backups and the Internet any day! :)
    :)
    However this shouldn't have taken this long :(

    Russ

    --
    Russell Grover - SBITS.Biz [SBS-MVP]
    Microsoft Gold Certified Partner
    Microsoft Certified Small Business Specialist
    World Wide 24hr SBS Remote Support - http://www.SBITS.Biz
    Microsoft Online Services - http://www.microsoft-online-services.com


    "RJK" <nosuch@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:#YJrUCZkKHA.3476@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
    > What a heap of crap, ...not just Windows 7 but, also the Asus X5DIJ laptop
    > that I just bought for my Aunty !!!
    >
    > Having just finished a late shift at work, I thought I'd run the Asus
    > "Recovery Disc Creation" procedure, (Laptop arrived this morning, just
    > before I had to go to work), so that it gets done. ....ready for when I
    > take it in to her tommorrow morning. The supplied "AI Recovery" has been
    > running for over 45 minutes, first creating a backup image, then ISO
    > files, ...then it finally burnt the 1st ISO image to DVD+r ...or they may
    > be -r' discs btw, not sure now, (good wuality ones btw), ....and then the
    > f*****g thing decided to verify the first DVD+r that had been burnt.
    >
    > Over 45 minutes !!!!!, ...it's 00:55am, I would really like to go to bed
    > and sleep !!!, ...and it was still verifying that 1st DVD+r when I came
    > out to my office here to have a rant.
    > I'm 54 years old and have been using PC's since they were invented, and
    > with all the hardware and software "development" across the past THIRTY
    > years there appears to be NO decrease in the time it takes the b****y
    > things to b****y well get on and do something !!!
    >
    > During recent months, I've been used to Norton Ghost 14.0 backing up my
    > main PC hard-drive in less than 6 minutes (internal SATAII hd to SATAII
    > hd's). So quite what this heap of crap is up to - goodness only knows !
    >
    > best regards,
    >
    > Richard
    >
     
  14. RJK

    RJK Flightless Bird

    Re: Windows 7 (XP with a new look!)

    "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
    news:%23MVJ7AakKHA.4772@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
    > Stan Starinski wrote:
    >> I am today 37, born/raised in Europe
    >> I'd agree 8086 was one of the early "practical" PC's. Can never tell
    >> who/what was "precisely" first. - often there're multiple events, people
    >> or
    >> products. There were people before Einstein with similar equations but
    >> he
    >> got his Theory officially presented.
    >>
    >> But strictly speaking earliest PC's were long before 8086. First off,
    >> the
    >> number "80" appearing in immense number of IC chips of that era simply
    >> indicates the decade - 1980's.
    >> But before that - even I remember using it, we had 8080, truly the first
    >> practical Microprocessor - by Intel, piror to that we had all kinds of
    >> "do
    >> it yourself" kits including venerable Apple in 1976, base don Motorola
    >> MP.
    >> It is therefore a custom to specify the birth of PC's as 1976 Apple.
    >> THAT I
    >> obviously can't remember (was 4 year sold!).
    >>
    >> But IBM quickly seized initiative from "hobbyist" Apple, and produced an
    >> industrial/business version called simply IBM PC, that's when I'd like to
    >> put a mark because they were first to market the term "PC" as opposed to
    >> mainframes of previous era (even if Apple used the term, it wasn't a TM).
    >> 1980 was a crucial year
    >>
    >> Some years later, I remember reading "Life & Science" magazine in that
    >> country where I was born, by which time USA already had IBM PC XT & RT,
    >> and
    >> even a hardisk called "winchester" then with a whopping 1MB size!! It
    >> cost
    >> like a medium car, and breaking down as a habit. But we couldn't have
    >> even
    >> that.
    >> In my country we had to use crap, but we had best programmers - the
    >> irony!
    >> SO the flow started - brains flew to America, hardware flew to that
    >> country.
    >> As soon as we got here (a few of my relatives been living in North
    >> America
    >> for at least a century, but we were late), I grabbed a free gift from my
    >> father's former wife's new husband. he was a radiologist (medical), and
    >> he
    >> was about to throw out 8086-based PC AT (?), its memory was cutting off
    >> at
    >> some small number and stopped self test w/failure.
    >> Well I took it apart and fixed memory by moving banks around until I hit
    >> the
    >> bad one, and removed it; maxiumum was 640KB. That was a huge number, as
    >> prior to that our High School "gang' built Z80 gaming machines where 32Kb
    >> was considered an achievement, more often it was 16KB memory.
    >>
    >> It sounds ridiculous now, but... people really had to use brains to
    >> program
    >> it.
    >> Every byte was precious. I did some insane tricks, like resuing the same
    >> memory byte for both instruction, brnach jump address or data - when they
    >> coincided, things which would be illegal in progrmaming today.
    >>
    >> Anyway, 8086 is too powerful to call "first".
    >> Try i8080, Zilog Z80, Motorola 68000.

    >
    > You mean 6800.
    > And don't forget the 6502 (used in Apple II).
    >


    I'd forgotten that I had a Sinclair ZX81 (with the proper tactile
    keynoard - not the rubber keys !!!!) :)

    regards, Richard
     
  15. RJK

    RJK Flightless Bird

    "Russ SBITS.Biz [SBS-MVP]" <russ@REMOVETHIS.sbits.biz> wrote in message
    news:-OXUgNFekKHA.2184@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
    >I actually would not want to go back to shoving everything under 512k and
    >trying to get
    > Logitec Mouse
    > Banyan, Novell, and OpenNET Drivers loaded.
    > (386 MAX was the only tool to do it.)
    > And IRQ's OH Boy Fun!
    >
    > And even worse was hard Drives, You had to LOW level Format them
    > and if you didn't have a COMPU$ERVE Accout for $50 bucks a month (YES $50
    > Bucks for a BBS)
    > You couldn't get any information on the hard drive sectors cylinders etc.
    >
    > So going back? No thanks
    > I'll take PNP Image backups and the Internet any day! :)
    > :)
    > However this shouldn't have taken this long :(
    >
    > Russ
    >
    > --
    > Russell Grover - SBITS.Biz [SBS-MVP]
    > Microsoft Gold Certified Partner
    > Microsoft Certified Small Business Specialist
    > World Wide 24hr SBS Remote Support - http://www.SBITS.Biz
    > Microsoft Online Services - http://www.microsoft-online-services.com
    >
    >


    On my old Amstrad 1512, I had to buy the extra 128k memory module and plug
    it in - to get to 640k :)

    I notice earlier on this thread that I used the word "manager" twice, 2nd
    time when referring to emm386.exe, I should have said "expanded memory
    emulator"

    I often think that software performance (Windows GUI and apps.), on recent
    Pc hardware, in some ways is not much faster than my first PC, 25? years ago
    !

    As an example, many years ago I used to use DOS based "Masterfile PC"
    (daisychain type database program), which could sort 4,000 records in 10 or
    20 seconds, on an old 8086 8mhz based machine, ...mainly of course because
    the whole program was written in Microsoft Macro Assembler :)

    regards, Richard
     
  16. C.Joseph Drayton

    C.Joseph Drayton Flightless Bird

    Re: Windows 7 (XP with a new look!)

    On 1/9/2010 10:01 PM, Ian D wrote:
    > "Stan Starinski"<China@stealsUSJobsPatentsSoftwareMusicVideo> wrote in
    > message news:eICfZzZkKHA.1540@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
    >> I am today 37, born/raised in Europe
    >> I'd agree 8086 was one of the early "practical" PC's. Can never tell
    >> who/what was "precisely" first. - often there're multiple events, people
    >> or products. There were people before Einstein with similar equations but
    >> he got his Theory officially presented.
    >>
    >> But strictly speaking earliest PC's were long before 8086. First off, the
    >> number "80" appearing in immense number of IC chips of that era simply
    >> indicates the decade - 1980's.
    >> But before that - even I remember using it, we had 8080, truly the first
    >> practical Microprocessor - by Intel, piror to that we had all kinds of "do
    >> it yourself" kits including venerable Apple in 1976, base don Motorola MP.
    >> It is therefore a custom to specify the birth of PC's as 1976 Apple. THAT
    >> I obviously can't remember (was 4 year sold!).
    >>
    >> But IBM quickly seized initiative from "hobbyist" Apple, and produced an
    >> industrial/business version called simply IBM PC, that's when I'd like to
    >> put a mark because they were first to market the term "PC" as opposed to
    >> mainframes of previous era (even if Apple used the term, it wasn't a TM).
    >> 1980 was a crucial year
    >>
    >> Some years later, I remember reading "Life& Science" magazine in that
    >> country where I was born, by which time USA already had IBM PC XT& RT,
    >> and even a hardisk called "winchester" then with a whopping 1MB size!! It
    >> cost like a medium car, and breaking down as a habit. But we couldn't
    >> have even that.
    >> In my country we had to use crap, but we had best programmers - the irony!
    >> SO the flow started - brains flew to America, hardware flew to that
    >> country.
    >> As soon as we got here (a few of my relatives been living in North America
    >> for at least a century, but we were late), I grabbed a free gift from my
    >> father's former wife's new husband. he was a radiologist (medical), and
    >> he was about to throw out 8086-based PC AT (?), its memory was cutting off
    >> at some small number and stopped self test w/failure.
    >> Well I took it apart and fixed memory by moving banks around until I hit
    >> the bad one, and removed it; maxiumum was 640KB. That was a huge number,
    >> as prior to that our High School "gang' built Z80 gaming machines where
    >> 32Kb was considered an achievement, more often it was 16KB memory.
    >>
    >> It sounds ridiculous now, but... people really had to use brains to
    >> program it.
    >> Every byte was precious. I did some insane tricks, like resuing the same
    >> memory byte for both instruction, brnach jump address or data - when they
    >> coincided, things which would be illegal in progrmaming today.
    >>
    >> Anyway, 8086 is too powerful to call "first".
    >> Try i8080, Zilog Z80, Motorola 68000.
    >>
    >> To me Z80 has the most meaning, I was 16.... that microprocessor was
    >> ceated by geniuses in California (?), it was too good for its time. It
    >> was so cheap, robust, reliable that BELIEVE it or not, still used in
    >> appliances, home automation, etc. Smaller, expanded versions, but same
    >> core architecture.
    >> That is not related to Intel i80xx series or Motorola.

    >
    > The first microprocessor was the Intel 4004. It consisted of two 4
    > bit chips. These were combined into the 8008, the first 8 bit CPU.
    > That's where the 80 designation started. The first practical CPU,
    > the 8080, capable of running BASIC, was introduced in 1974.
    > The first hobbyist 8080 kit was the 1975 MITS Altair 8800, which
    > also used the S-100 bus, which was the defacto standard until
    > the introduction of the IBM PC with the ISA bus.
    >
    > The first mass produced systems were the Apple II, and the
    > Radio Shack TRS-80, both introduced in 1977. The Apple II
    > was the first to use color graphics.
    >
    >

    Hi IanD,

    I think you chronology is slightly off.

    The Apple (Motorola 6502) and TRS-80 (Zilog Z80) were introduced in
    1976. In 1977, Commodore introduced the Pet (Motorola 6502).

    In early 1978 Zilog introduced the Z80a. This was a major innovation
    because in allowed for direct inp/out.

    Then in late 1979 (possibly early 1980), Commodore introduced the Vic-20
    which was a very dressed down Pet and considerably cheaper.

    Between 1980 and 1982 Atari, Texas Instruments, Acorn, Sinclair and a
    number of other companies were developing home PC. That was also the
    year that Commodore introduced the Commodore 64 (Motorola 6510) with
    'sprite' graphics.

    During this time, their were also PC cropping up in offices . . . the
    one that comes to mind for me is the Morrow MicroDecision which was
    running CP/M there were of course other like Compaq and Kaypro.

    We now think of the PC as Intel (or AMD), but there were real PCs in the
    home and office way before the IBM (and PC clones). The variety and
    choices were staggering and the prices for the home ones so cheap that
    it was a very crazy time. The last Commodore I bought (a Plus4), I
    actually got a a Toys-r-Us and if I remember right it was only $249.

    And just as an aside, if IBM had not gotten greedy and decided to
    over-charge on the MCA (micro-channel architecture) bus, things in the
    computer industry might have gone in a very different direction. The
    'gang of nine' came together because of that . . . they are in a lot of
    ways responsible for the level of standardization that we have become
    use to in the desktop PC arena.

    Sincerely,
    C.Joseph Drayton, Ph.D. AS&T

    CSD Computer Services

    Web site: http://csdcs.site90.net/
    E-mail: c.joseph@csdcs.site90.net
     
  17. Russ SBITS.Biz [SBS-MVP]

    Russ SBITS.Biz [SBS-MVP] Flightless Bird

    Re: Windows 7 (XP with a new look!)

    WOW Impressive!

    You had the Next Generation version!
    Mine was Chicklet keys.

    I sold it and got a Commodore 64
    with a Tape Drive, then a Single Sided 5.25 floppy (was it 170k?)

    Major Flaw wit the Commodore64
    Where the Power supply wasn't designed to be on 10hrs a day
    Which I would do.

    I returned about 4 of them at Toys R Us before I got one that worked long
    enough.
    (WOW I was addicted to computers way back then even.)

    Right now I'm on my laptop, watching the Science channel.
    And I can't wait till "CHUCK" on NBC Premiers tonight :)

    I may need to go to Internet Addiction Classes
    http://www.icaservices.com/

    Naw, too expensive. :)
    Later!
    Russ


    --
    Russell Grover - SBITS.Biz [SBS-MVP]
    Microsoft Gold Certified Partner
    Microsoft Certified Small Business Specialist
    World Wide 24hr SBS Remote Support - http://www.SBITS.Biz
    Microsoft Online Services - http://www.microsoft-online-services.com


    "RJK" <nosuch@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:ehLB$jlkKHA.2164@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
    >
    > "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in message
    > news:%23MVJ7AakKHA.4772@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
    >> Stan Starinski wrote:
    >>> I am today 37, born/raised in Europe
    >>> I'd agree 8086 was one of the early "practical" PC's. Can never tell
    >>> who/what was "precisely" first. - often there're multiple events, people
    >>> or
    >>> products. There were people before Einstein with similar equations but
    >>> he
    >>> got his Theory officially presented.
    >>>
    >>> But strictly speaking earliest PC's were long before 8086. First off,
    >>> the
    >>> number "80" appearing in immense number of IC chips of that era simply
    >>> indicates the decade - 1980's.
    >>> But before that - even I remember using it, we had 8080, truly the first
    >>> practical Microprocessor - by Intel, piror to that we had all kinds of
    >>> "do
    >>> it yourself" kits including venerable Apple in 1976, base don Motorola
    >>> MP.
    >>> It is therefore a custom to specify the birth of PC's as 1976 Apple.
    >>> THAT I
    >>> obviously can't remember (was 4 year sold!).
    >>>
    >>> But IBM quickly seized initiative from "hobbyist" Apple, and produced an
    >>> industrial/business version called simply IBM PC, that's when I'd like
    >>> to
    >>> put a mark because they were first to market the term "PC" as opposed to
    >>> mainframes of previous era (even if Apple used the term, it wasn't a
    >>> TM).
    >>> 1980 was a crucial year
    >>>
    >>> Some years later, I remember reading "Life & Science" magazine in that
    >>> country where I was born, by which time USA already had IBM PC XT & RT,
    >>> and
    >>> even a hardisk called "winchester" then with a whopping 1MB size!! It
    >>> cost
    >>> like a medium car, and breaking down as a habit. But we couldn't have
    >>> even
    >>> that.
    >>> In my country we had to use crap, but we had best programmers - the
    >>> irony!
    >>> SO the flow started - brains flew to America, hardware flew to that
    >>> country.
    >>> As soon as we got here (a few of my relatives been living in North
    >>> America
    >>> for at least a century, but we were late), I grabbed a free gift from my
    >>> father's former wife's new husband. he was a radiologist (medical), and
    >>> he
    >>> was about to throw out 8086-based PC AT (?), its memory was cutting off
    >>> at
    >>> some small number and stopped self test w/failure.
    >>> Well I took it apart and fixed memory by moving banks around until I hit
    >>> the
    >>> bad one, and removed it; maxiumum was 640KB. That was a huge number, as
    >>> prior to that our High School "gang' built Z80 gaming machines where
    >>> 32Kb
    >>> was considered an achievement, more often it was 16KB memory.
    >>>
    >>> It sounds ridiculous now, but... people really had to use brains to
    >>> program
    >>> it.
    >>> Every byte was precious. I did some insane tricks, like resuing the
    >>> same
    >>> memory byte for both instruction, brnach jump address or data - when
    >>> they
    >>> coincided, things which would be illegal in progrmaming today.
    >>>
    >>> Anyway, 8086 is too powerful to call "first".
    >>> Try i8080, Zilog Z80, Motorola 68000.

    >>
    >> You mean 6800.
    >> And don't forget the 6502 (used in Apple II).
    >>

    >
    > I'd forgotten that I had a Sinclair ZX81 (with the proper tactile
    > keynoard - not the rubber keys !!!!) :)
    >
    > regards, Richard
    >
     
  18. Russ SBITS.Biz [SBS-MVP]

    Russ SBITS.Biz [SBS-MVP] Flightless Bird

    Re: Windows 7 (XP with a new look!)

    Stop it,
    you are making me feel old!
    LOL ;)
    Russ

    --
    Russell Grover - SBITS.Biz [SBS-MVP]
    Microsoft Gold Certified Partner
    Microsoft Certified Small Business Specialist
    World Wide 24hr SBS Remote Support - http://www.SBITS.Biz
    Microsoft Online Services - http://www.microsoft-online-services.com


    "C.Joseph Drayton" <c.joseph@csdcs.site90.net> wrote in message
    news:hidv1p$uo2$1@news.eternal-september.org...
    > On 1/9/2010 10:01 PM, Ian D wrote:
    >> "Stan Starinski"<China@stealsUSJobsPatentsSoftwareMusicVideo> wrote in
    >> message news:eICfZzZkKHA.1540@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
    >>> I am today 37, born/raised in Europe
    >>> I'd agree 8086 was one of the early "practical" PC's. Can never tell
    >>> who/what was "precisely" first. - often there're multiple events, people
    >>> or products. There were people before Einstein with similar equations
    >>> but
    >>> he got his Theory officially presented.
    >>>
    >>> But strictly speaking earliest PC's were long before 8086. First off,
    >>> the
    >>> number "80" appearing in immense number of IC chips of that era simply
    >>> indicates the decade - 1980's.
    >>> But before that - even I remember using it, we had 8080, truly the first
    >>> practical Microprocessor - by Intel, piror to that we had all kinds of
    >>> "do
    >>> it yourself" kits including venerable Apple in 1976, base don Motorola
    >>> MP.
    >>> It is therefore a custom to specify the birth of PC's as 1976 Apple.
    >>> THAT
    >>> I obviously can't remember (was 4 year sold!).
    >>>
    >>> But IBM quickly seized initiative from "hobbyist" Apple, and produced an
    >>> industrial/business version called simply IBM PC, that's when I'd like
    >>> to
    >>> put a mark because they were first to market the term "PC" as opposed to
    >>> mainframes of previous era (even if Apple used the term, it wasn't a
    >>> TM).
    >>> 1980 was a crucial year
    >>>
    >>> Some years later, I remember reading "Life& Science" magazine in that
    >>> country where I was born, by which time USA already had IBM PC XT& RT,
    >>> and even a hardisk called "winchester" then with a whopping 1MB size!!
    >>> It
    >>> cost like a medium car, and breaking down as a habit. But we couldn't
    >>> have even that.
    >>> In my country we had to use crap, but we had best programmers - the
    >>> irony!
    >>> SO the flow started - brains flew to America, hardware flew to that
    >>> country.
    >>> As soon as we got here (a few of my relatives been living in North
    >>> America
    >>> for at least a century, but we were late), I grabbed a free gift from my
    >>> father's former wife's new husband. he was a radiologist (medical), and
    >>> he was about to throw out 8086-based PC AT (?), its memory was cutting
    >>> off
    >>> at some small number and stopped self test w/failure.
    >>> Well I took it apart and fixed memory by moving banks around until I hit
    >>> the bad one, and removed it; maxiumum was 640KB. That was a huge
    >>> number,
    >>> as prior to that our High School "gang' built Z80 gaming machines where
    >>> 32Kb was considered an achievement, more often it was 16KB memory.
    >>>
    >>> It sounds ridiculous now, but... people really had to use brains to
    >>> program it.
    >>> Every byte was precious. I did some insane tricks, like resuing the
    >>> same
    >>> memory byte for both instruction, brnach jump address or data - when
    >>> they
    >>> coincided, things which would be illegal in progrmaming today.
    >>>
    >>> Anyway, 8086 is too powerful to call "first".
    >>> Try i8080, Zilog Z80, Motorola 68000.
    >>>
    >>> To me Z80 has the most meaning, I was 16.... that microprocessor was
    >>> ceated by geniuses in California (?), it was too good for its time. It
    >>> was so cheap, robust, reliable that BELIEVE it or not, still used in
    >>> appliances, home automation, etc. Smaller, expanded versions, but same
    >>> core architecture.
    >>> That is not related to Intel i80xx series or Motorola.

    >>
    >> The first microprocessor was the Intel 4004. It consisted of two 4
    >> bit chips. These were combined into the 8008, the first 8 bit CPU.
    >> That's where the 80 designation started. The first practical CPU,
    >> the 8080, capable of running BASIC, was introduced in 1974.
    >> The first hobbyist 8080 kit was the 1975 MITS Altair 8800, which
    >> also used the S-100 bus, which was the defacto standard until
    >> the introduction of the IBM PC with the ISA bus.
    >>
    >> The first mass produced systems were the Apple II, and the
    >> Radio Shack TRS-80, both introduced in 1977. The Apple II
    >> was the first to use color graphics.
    >>
    >>

    > Hi IanD,
    >
    > I think you chronology is slightly off.
    >
    > The Apple (Motorola 6502) and TRS-80 (Zilog Z80) were introduced in 1976.
    > In 1977, Commodore introduced the Pet (Motorola 6502).
    >
    > In early 1978 Zilog introduced the Z80a. This was a major innovation
    > because in allowed for direct inp/out.
    >
    > Then in late 1979 (possibly early 1980), Commodore introduced the Vic-20
    > which was a very dressed down Pet and considerably cheaper.
    >
    > Between 1980 and 1982 Atari, Texas Instruments, Acorn, Sinclair and a
    > number of other companies were developing home PC. That was also the year
    > that Commodore introduced the Commodore 64 (Motorola 6510) with 'sprite'
    > graphics.
    >
    > During this time, their were also PC cropping up in offices . . . the one
    > that comes to mind for me is the Morrow MicroDecision which was running
    > CP/M there were of course other like Compaq and Kaypro.
    >
    > We now think of the PC as Intel (or AMD), but there were real PCs in the
    > home and office way before the IBM (and PC clones). The variety and
    > choices were staggering and the prices for the home ones so cheap that it
    > was a very crazy time. The last Commodore I bought (a Plus4), I actually
    > got a a Toys-r-Us and if I remember right it was only $249.
    >
    > And just as an aside, if IBM had not gotten greedy and decided to
    > over-charge on the MCA (micro-channel architecture) bus, things in the
    > computer industry might have gone in a very different direction. The 'gang
    > of nine' came together because of that . . . they are in a lot of ways
    > responsible for the level of standardization that we have become use to in
    > the desktop PC arena.
    >
    > Sincerely,
    > C.Joseph Drayton, Ph.D. AS&T
    >
    > CSD Computer Services
    >
    > Web site: http://csdcs.site90.net/
    > E-mail: c.joseph@csdcs.site90.net
     
  19. Russ SBITS.Biz [SBS-MVP]

    Russ SBITS.Biz [SBS-MVP] Flightless Bird

    is that with the additional 8087 Math coprocessor or without
    for only $120-130 more (If I remember) LOL
    I worked at Intel so we got a employee discount.
    :)
    Russ

    --
    Russell Grover - SBITS.Biz [SBS-MVP]
    Microsoft Gold Certified Partner
    Microsoft Certified Small Business Specialist
    World Wide 24hr SBS Remote Support - http://www.SBITS.Biz
    Microsoft Online Services - http://www.microsoft-online-services.com


    "RJK" <nosuch@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:evi0v0lkKHA.2188@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
    >
    > "Russ SBITS.Biz [SBS-MVP]" <russ@REMOVETHIS.sbits.biz> wrote in message
    > news:-OXUgNFekKHA.2184@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
    >>I actually would not want to go back to shoving everything under 512k and
    >>trying to get
    >> Logitec Mouse
    >> Banyan, Novell, and OpenNET Drivers loaded.
    >> (386 MAX was the only tool to do it.)
    >> And IRQ's OH Boy Fun!
    >>
    >> And even worse was hard Drives, You had to LOW level Format them
    >> and if you didn't have a COMPU$ERVE Accout for $50 bucks a month (YES $50
    >> Bucks for a BBS)
    >> You couldn't get any information on the hard drive sectors cylinders etc.
    >>
    >> So going back? No thanks
    >> I'll take PNP Image backups and the Internet any day! :)
    >> :)
    >> However this shouldn't have taken this long :(
    >>
    >> Russ
    >>
    >> --
    >> Russell Grover - SBITS.Biz [SBS-MVP]
    >> Microsoft Gold Certified Partner
    >> Microsoft Certified Small Business Specialist
    >> World Wide 24hr SBS Remote Support - http://www.SBITS.Biz
    >> Microsoft Online Services - http://www.microsoft-online-services.com
    >>
    >>

    >
    > On my old Amstrad 1512, I had to buy the extra 128k memory module and plug
    > it in - to get to 640k :)
    >
    > I notice earlier on this thread that I used the word "manager" twice, 2nd
    > time when referring to emm386.exe, I should have said "expanded memory
    > emulator"
    >
    > I often think that software performance (Windows GUI and apps.), on recent
    > Pc hardware, in some ways is not much faster than my first PC, 25? years
    > ago !
    >
    > As an example, many years ago I used to use DOS based "Masterfile PC"
    > (daisychain type database program), which could sort 4,000 records in 10
    > or 20 seconds, on an old 8086 8mhz based machine, ...mainly of course
    > because the whole program was written in Microsoft Macro Assembler :)
    >
    > regards, Richard
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
     
  20. C.Joseph Drayton

    C.Joseph Drayton Flightless Bird

    Re: Windows 7 (XP with a new look!)

    On 1/10/2010 7:26 PM, Russ SBITS.Biz [SBS-MVP] wrote:
    > Stop it,
    > you are making me feel old!
    > LOL ;)
    > Russ
    >

    I hate to tell you this Russ but, if you remember all of that stuff . . .

    YOU ARE OLD!!!!!!

    Me of course, I am still a kid so I guess I must have read all that
    stuff somewhere <LOL>.

    Sincerely,
    C.Joseph Drayton, Ph.D. AS&T

    CSD Computer Services

    Web site: http://csdcs.site90.net/
    E-mail: c.joseph@csdcs.site90.net
     

Share This Page