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Windows Pagefile Questions.

Discussion in 'Windows XP' started by Axel Brotten, Jan 30, 2010.

  1. Axel Brotten

    Axel Brotten Flightless Bird

    Hello all. I have a few questions regarding Swapfiles. First, however here
    is my configuration:

    1) Windows XP Pro (SP3), 3.0 GHZ AMD CPU,
    2) 1GB Ram,
    3) 3 Hard Drives:
    Drive C (100GB Programs only - no data),
    Drive d (250GB IDE 7200 RPM) data and app installation points, Web
    and SQL Data,
    Drive E (500 GB Sata 7200 RPM) Data, SQL Log files and edited
    Video Files,
    4) Swapfiles:
    Drive C: 64mb, dump file only,
    Drive D: 1.5 GB
    Drive E: 1.5 GB

    So here are my queries:

    1) Does Windows use the swapfile on a particular drive based on editing
    (data storage, copy etc). For example, if I am editing say a video file on
    drive D, will Windows use the Swapfile on that drive to store page fault
    data? This would seem to be rather foolish as the data is being edited on
    the same drive as that swapfile.
    2) How can I tell Windows to use the Swapfile on a particular drive (say
    Drive E:) first or can one?
    3) Is there a better way to configure the pagefiles?

    I ask these questions, because I've noticed at several points during the day
    that the disk drive light flashes like a banshee on cocaine. Eventually
    (typically after about a minute or so) it settles down. This happens
    primarily when I edit video files. I understand an realize that editing
    video files uses a lot of ram and swapfile, so I don't think we need to beat
    that to death. I've even upped ram to 2BG - but the same thing happens. The
    same occurs on a different system (similar in config, except it has dual
    Pentiums with 4 2 gb ram). So it seems that Windows is going to use the
    swapfile anyway (which of course we all know).

    I realize that I can configure Perfom to trap and record all this activity,
    but what is the reality of that data being accurate? I mean, Perfmon will of
    course require ram (and swapfile) so would those pieces of data (in
    particular evaluating the Deltas) be that accurate.

    So I rambled on, just want to be as complete as I can.

    Thanks.
     
  2. Pegasus [MVP]

    Pegasus [MVP] Flightless Bird

    "Axel Brotten" <axel.brotten@aol.com> said this in news item
    news:uSBh#EboKHA.1556@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
    > Hello all. I have a few questions regarding Swapfiles. First, however here
    > is my configuration:
    >
    > 1) Windows XP Pro (SP3), 3.0 GHZ AMD CPU,
    > 2) 1GB Ram,
    > 3) 3 Hard Drives:
    > Drive C (100GB Programs only - no data),
    > Drive d (250GB IDE 7200 RPM) data and app installation points,
    > Web and SQL Data,
    > Drive E (500 GB Sata 7200 RPM) Data, SQL Log files and edited
    > Video Files,
    > 4) Swapfiles:
    > Drive C: 64mb, dump file only,
    > Drive D: 1.5 GB
    > Drive E: 1.5 GB
    >
    > So here are my queries:
    >
    > 1) Does Windows use the swapfile on a particular drive based on editing
    > (data storage, copy etc). For example, if I am editing say a video file on
    > drive D, will Windows use the Swapfile on that drive to store page fault
    > data? This would seem to be rather foolish as the data is being edited on
    > the same drive as that swapfile.
    > 2) How can I tell Windows to use the Swapfile on a particular drive (say
    > Drive E:) first or can one?
    > 3) Is there a better way to configure the pagefiles?
    >
    > I ask these questions, because I've noticed at several points during the
    > day that the disk drive light flashes like a banshee on cocaine.
    > Eventually (typically after about a minute or so) it settles down. This
    > happens primarily when I edit video files. I understand an realize that
    > editing video files uses a lot of ram and swapfile, so I don't think we
    > need to beat that to death. I've even upped ram to 2BG - but the same
    > thing happens. The same occurs on a different system (similar in config,
    > except it has dual Pentiums with 4 2 gb ram). So it seems that Windows is
    > going to use the swapfile anyway (which of course we all know).
    >
    > I realize that I can configure Perfom to trap and record all this
    > activity, but what is the reality of that data being accurate? I mean,
    > Perfmon will of course require ram (and swapfile) so would those pieces of
    > data (in particular evaluating the Deltas) be that accurate.
    >
    > So I rambled on, just want to be as complete as I can.
    >
    > Thanks.


    You cannot tell Windows how to use its paging file. Where your source file
    resides is rather irrelevant because the paging file is used to dump data
    from RAM to disk, not from a disk file back to a disk file. In other words,
    data always has to be read into RAM first. The destination for the paging
    operation will then become irrelevant.

    Most sound and video editing programs let you designate a specific folder
    for their temporary files (which can be huge). Check the settings on your
    own video editing application, then adjust them to suit your machine. Some
    people go as far as creating a RAM drive for this purpose. Others suggest
    that the disk caching mechanism built into Windows is so advanced that using
    a RAM drive does not result in an improvement.
     
  3. Ken Blake, MVP

    Ken Blake, MVP Flightless Bird

    On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 06:36:34 -0700, "Axel Brotten"
    <axel.brotten@aol.com> wrote:

    > Hello all. I have a few questions regarding Swapfiles. First, however here
    > is my configuration:
    >
    > 1) Windows XP Pro (SP3), 3.0 GHZ AMD CPU,
    > 2) 1GB Ram,
    > 3) 3 Hard Drives:
    > Drive C (100GB Programs only - no data),
    > Drive d (250GB IDE 7200 RPM) data and app installation points, Web
    > and SQL Data,
    > Drive E (500 GB Sata 7200 RPM) Data, SQL Log files and edited
    > Video Files,
    > 4) Swapfiles:
    > Drive C: 64mb, dump file only,
    > Drive D: 1.5 GB
    > Drive E: 1.5 GB
    >
    > So here are my queries:
    >
    > 1) Does Windows use the swapfile on a particular drive based on editing
    > (data storage, copy etc). For example, if I am editing say a video file on
    > drive D, will Windows use the Swapfile on that drive to store page fault
    > data? This would seem to be rather foolish as the data is being edited on
    > the same drive as that swapfile.




    It does what it wants to and you can't control it.


    > 2) How can I tell Windows to use the Swapfile on a particular drive (say
    > Drive E:) first or can one?
    > 3) Is there a better way to configure the pagefiles?




    Yes. You should have a single page file and it should be on drive C:.
    Putting any part of it on other partitions puts the page file farther
    from the other data on the drive, so the drive heads have to travel
    farther to get to and from the page file. That will slow you down
    rather than improve performance.

    However, how much it slows you down depends on how much the page file
    is used, and that depends on how much RAM you have. The more RAM, the
    less page file use, and for many people these days, the difference in
    performance is so slight as to be unnoticeable.

    And why do you have partitions D: and E:? It sounds like they contain
    much the same sort of thing and there is likely no good reason to have
    two such partitions, rather than one.


    > I ask these questions, because I've noticed at several points during the day
    > that the disk drive light flashes like a banshee on cocaine. Eventually
    > (typically after about a minute or so) it settles down. This happens
    > primarily when I edit video files. I understand an realize that editing
    > video files uses a lot of ram and swapfile, so I don't think we need to beat
    > that to death. I've even upped ram to 2BG - but the same thing happens. The
    > same occurs on a different system (similar in config, except it has dual
    > Pentiums with 4 2 gb ram). So it seems that Windows is going to use the
    > swapfile anyway (which of course we all know).





    Not true. You are mixing up *using* the page file with *allocating*
    space on it. It will often do the latter (to improve performance in
    case it needs it), but not the former.


    > I realize that I can configure Perfom to trap and record all this activity,
    > but what is the reality of that data being accurate? I mean, Perfmon will of
    > course require ram (and swapfile) so would those pieces of data (in
    > particular evaluating the Deltas) be that accurate.
    >
    > So I rambled on, just want to be as complete as I can.
    >
    > Thanks.
    >


    --
    Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP (Windows Desktop Experience) since 2003
    Please Reply to the Newsgroup
     
  4. Twayne

    Twayne Flightless Bird

    In news:uSBh%23EboKHA.1556@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl,
    Axel Brotten <axel.brotten@aol.com> typed:
    > Hello all. I have a few questions regarding Swapfiles. First, however
    > here is my configuration:
    >
    > 1) Windows XP Pro (SP3), 3.0 GHZ AMD CPU,
    > 2) 1GB Ram,
    > 3) 3 Hard Drives:
    > Drive C (100GB Programs only - no data),
    > Drive d (250GB IDE 7200 RPM) data and app installation
    > points, Web and SQL Data,


    With a 100 Gig boot drive, I don't think it makes much sense to be
    installing programs to drive D. No data makes sense, but not apps, assming
    that's what yu meant.

    > Drive E (500 GB Sata 7200 RPM) Data, SQL Log files and edited
    > Video Files,
    > 4) Swapfiles:
    > Drive C: 64mb, dump file only,
    > Drive D: 1.5 GB
    > Drive E: 1.5 GB


    You don't mention where you're putting your video editing files; there are
    thousands of temporary files created during an edit and those are the ones
    that end up in the pagefile. Same applies to rendering. You do NOT want the
    pagefile where you do your editing and rendering; an area you didn't include
    in your definition.

    None of your setup actually lends itself to efficient use of a pagefile
    anywhere but on C without further clarification of your details.

    >
    > So here are my queries:
    >
    > 1) Does Windows use the swapfile on a particular drive based on
    > editing (data storage, copy etc). For example, if I am editing say a
    > video file on drive D, will Windows use the Swapfile on that drive to
    > store page fault data? This would seem to be rather foolish as the
    > data is being edited on the same drive as that swapfile.
    > 2) How can I tell Windows to use the Swapfile on a particular drive
    > (say Drive E:) first or can one?
    > 3) Is there a better way to configure the pagefiles?


    1. No, I'm pretty sure not.

    2. You really can't, directly. IIRC, what that many pagefiles, the OS will
    look for the file on C, then D, then E ... etc.. IMO it's a poor setup
    and -could- result in using the pagefile on the same drive you're working
    on.

    3. In general you want a small pagefile on drive C, say 128 Meg, and a
    large, system managed pagefile on another, lesser used, separate physical
    drive. Some people will go so far as to put the swapfile in its own separate
    partition on another physical hard drive, but that's folly if there is ANY
    chance of ever filling that partition with the pagefile, which video work
    could accomplish. The second pagefile should be set to be System Managed.
    More pagefiles than that is a waste of time.
    So if you're using E and F say for video work, you do NOT want the
    pagefle on either of those drives. Instead it should live on D. That way
    neither the application nor the data has to contend with waiting to access
    the pageile.

    These might help too:

    http://support.microsoft.com/kb/307886

    http://articles.techrepublic.com.com/5100-10878_11-1056269.html

    http://www.theeldergeek.com/paging_file.htm

    and Wikipedia has a good set of articles on it too.

    HTH,

    Twayne



    >
    > I ask these questions, because I've noticed at several points during
    > the day that the disk drive light flashes like a banshee on cocaine.
    > Eventually (typically after about a minute or so) it settles down.
    > This happens primarily when I edit video files. I understand an
    > realize that editing video files uses a lot of ram and swapfile, so I
    > don't think we need to beat that to death. I've even upped ram to 2BG
    > - but the same thing happens. The same occurs on a different system
    > (similar in config, except it has dual Pentiums with 4 2 gb ram). So
    > it seems that Windows is going to use the swapfile anyway (which of
    > course we all know).


    The same would happen on any system with 3 Gig or more of RAM in the 32 but
    world. You have the application itself, prefetches, editing/rendering
    buffers and more all being shifted into and out of the pagefile at a high
    rate of speed when the data is needed, plus someting already in RAM has to
    go back to the pagefile to make room for the new stuff, so that's even more
    disk work.

    Hint:Just in case you ever update: Since 10,000 rpm drives are affordable
    now, they do make a difference in timing for pagefile intensive operations,
    as does a speedy front side bus of a Giga Hz and fast RAM.

    >
    > I realize that I can configure Perfom to trap and record all this
    > activity, but what is the reality of that data being accurate? I
    > mean, Perfmon will of course require ram (and swapfile) so would
    > those pieces of data (in particular evaluating the Deltas) be that
    > accurate.
    > So I rambled on, just want to be as complete as I can.
    >
    > Thanks.
     
  5. Axel Brotten

    Axel Brotten Flightless Bird

    "Ken Blake, MVP" <kblake@this.is.an.invalid.domain> wrote in message
    news:eek:li8m5tjgmm7h156hgo7i1gt4gqapuen79@4ax.com...
    > On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 06:36:34 -0700, "Axel Brotten"
    > <axel.brotten@aol.com> wrote:
    >
    >> Hello all. I have a few questions regarding Swapfiles. First, however
    >> here
    >> is my configuration:
    >>
    >> 1) Windows XP Pro (SP3), 3.0 GHZ AMD CPU,
    >> 2) 1GB Ram,
    >> 3) 3 Hard Drives:
    >> Drive C (100GB Programs only - no data),
    >> Drive d (250GB IDE 7200 RPM) data and app installation points,
    >> Web
    >> and SQL Data,
    >> Drive E (500 GB Sata 7200 RPM) Data, SQL Log files and edited
    >> Video Files,
    >> 4) Swapfiles:
    >> Drive C: 64mb, dump file only,
    >> Drive D: 1.5 GB
    >> Drive E: 1.5 GB
    >>
    >> So here are my queries:
    >>
    >> 1) Does Windows use the swapfile on a particular drive based on editing
    >> (data storage, copy etc). For example, if I am editing say a video file
    >> on
    >> drive D, will Windows use the Swapfile on that drive to store page fault
    >> data? This would seem to be rather foolish as the data is being edited on
    >> the same drive as that swapfile.

    >
    >
    >
    > It does what it wants to and you can't control it.
    >
    >
    >> 2) How can I tell Windows to use the Swapfile on a particular drive (say
    >> Drive E:) first or can one?
    >> 3) Is there a better way to configure the pagefiles?

    >
    >
    >
    > Yes. You should have a single page file and it should be on drive C:.
    > Putting any part of it on other partitions puts the page file farther
    > from the other data on the drive, so the drive heads have to travel
    > farther to get to and from the page file. That will slow you down
    > rather than improve performance.


    Please see my note below - re PARTITIONS... Also, why would one want to put
    a swapfile on the boot/system drive???
    >
    > However, how much it slows you down depends on how much the page file
    > is used, and that depends on how much RAM you have. The more RAM, the
    > less page file use, and for many people these days, the difference in
    > performance is so slight as to be unnoticeable.
    >
    > And why do you have partitions D: and E:? It sounds like they contain
    > much the same sort of thing and there is likely no good reason to have
    > two such partitions, rather than one.


    They are NOT partitions. Please reread my post, they are DRIVES.

    >
    >
    >> I ask these questions, because I've noticed at several points during the
    >> day
    >> that the disk drive light flashes like a banshee on cocaine. Eventually
    >> (typically after about a minute or so) it settles down. This happens
    >> primarily when I edit video files. I understand an realize that editing
    >> video files uses a lot of ram and swapfile, so I don't think we need to
    >> beat
    >> that to death. I've even upped ram to 2BG - but the same thing happens.
    >> The
    >> same occurs on a different system (similar in config, except it has dual
    >> Pentiums with 4 2 gb ram). So it seems that Windows is going to use the
    >> swapfile anyway (which of course we all know).

    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Not true. You are mixing up *using* the page file with *allocating*
    > space on it. It will often do the latter (to improve performance in
    > case it needs it), but not the former.


    What's "Not True"??? I never mentioned anything about allocating "Versus"
    using. My question(s) are pretty clear I thought. Can I control/tell Windows
    which swapfile to use. As mentioned in my comment above, the same thing
    happens with a system with "Twice the PHYSICAL Ram" and another system with
    "Duallies and Twice the Ram". So "Not True" is not clear to me. Please
    explain. Thanks.
    >
    >
    >> I realize that I can configure Perfom to trap and record all this
    >> activity,
    >> but what is the reality of that data being accurate? I mean, Perfmon will
    >> of
    >> course require ram (and swapfile) so would those pieces of data (in
    >> particular evaluating the Deltas) be that accurate.
    >>
    >> So I rambled on, just want to be as complete as I can.
    >>
    >> Thanks.
    >>

    >
    > --
    > Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP (Windows Desktop Experience) since 2003
    > Please Reply to the Newsgroup
     
  6. Axel Brotten

    Axel Brotten Flightless Bird

    Thanks Axel. This cleared things up considerably. I changed the swapfiles
    usage to "System Managed" as apposed to allocating them myself. The
    performance improved and the disk activity "Really Diminished".

    In a previos reply, there was a comment regading Temp File usage. In my
    reply I mentioned that the authors of the application assured me that the
    only Temp files MpegVideo Wizad uses are for the MBS File Segments (which
    are onlyu pointers to the actual data in the files).

    I appreciate the clear and concise explanaiton.

    Cheers.

    "Twayne" <nobody@spamcop.net> wrote in message
    news:-O5$RYQeoKHA.5776@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
    > In news:uSBh%23EboKHA.1556@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl,
    > Axel Brotten <axel.brotten@aol.com> typed:
    >> Hello all. I have a few questions regarding Swapfiles. First, however
    >> here is my configuration:
    >>
    >> 1) Windows XP Pro (SP3), 3.0 GHZ AMD CPU,
    >> 2) 1GB Ram,
    >> 3) 3 Hard Drives:
    >> Drive C (100GB Programs only - no data),
    >> Drive d (250GB IDE 7200 RPM) data and app installation
    >> points, Web and SQL Data,

    >
    > With a 100 Gig boot drive, I don't think it makes much sense to be
    > installing programs to drive D. No data makes sense, but not apps, assming
    > that's what yu meant.
    >
    >> Drive E (500 GB Sata 7200 RPM) Data, SQL Log files and edited
    >> Video Files,
    >> 4) Swapfiles:
    >> Drive C: 64mb, dump file only,
    >> Drive D: 1.5 GB
    >> Drive E: 1.5 GB

    >
    > You don't mention where you're putting your video editing files; there are
    > thousands of temporary files created during an edit and those are the ones
    > that end up in the pagefile. Same applies to rendering. You do NOT want
    > the pagefile where you do your editing and rendering; an area you didn't
    > include in your definition.
    >
    > None of your setup actually lends itself to efficient use of a pagefile
    > anywhere but on C without further clarification of your details.
    >
    >>
    >> So here are my queries:
    >>
    >> 1) Does Windows use the swapfile on a particular drive based on
    >> editing (data storage, copy etc). For example, if I am editing say a
    >> video file on drive D, will Windows use the Swapfile on that drive to
    >> store page fault data? This would seem to be rather foolish as the
    >> data is being edited on the same drive as that swapfile.
    >> 2) How can I tell Windows to use the Swapfile on a particular drive
    >> (say Drive E:) first or can one?
    >> 3) Is there a better way to configure the pagefiles?

    >
    > 1. No, I'm pretty sure not.
    >
    > 2. You really can't, directly. IIRC, what that many pagefiles, the OS will
    > look for the file on C, then D, then E ... etc.. IMO it's a poor setup
    > and -could- result in using the pagefile on the same drive you're working
    > on.
    >
    > 3. In general you want a small pagefile on drive C, say 128 Meg, and a
    > large, system managed pagefile on another, lesser used, separate physical
    > drive. Some people will go so far as to put the swapfile in its own
    > separate partition on another physical hard drive, but that's folly if
    > there is ANY chance of ever filling that partition with the pagefile,
    > which video work could accomplish. The second pagefile should be set to
    > be System Managed. More pagefiles than that is a waste of time.
    > So if you're using E and F say for video work, you do NOT want the
    > pagefle on either of those drives. Instead it should live on D. That way
    > neither the application nor the data has to contend with waiting to access
    > the pageile.
    >
    > These might help too:
    >
    > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/307886
    >
    > http://articles.techrepublic.com.com/5100-10878_11-1056269.html
    >
    > http://www.theeldergeek.com/paging_file.htm
    >
    > and Wikipedia has a good set of articles on it too.
    >
    > HTH,
    >
    > Twayne
    >
    >
    >
    >>
    >> I ask these questions, because I've noticed at several points during
    >> the day that the disk drive light flashes like a banshee on cocaine.
    >> Eventually (typically after about a minute or so) it settles down.
    >> This happens primarily when I edit video files. I understand an
    >> realize that editing video files uses a lot of ram and swapfile, so I
    >> don't think we need to beat that to death. I've even upped ram to 2BG
    >> - but the same thing happens. The same occurs on a different system
    >> (similar in config, except it has dual Pentiums with 4 2 gb ram). So
    >> it seems that Windows is going to use the swapfile anyway (which of
    >> course we all know).

    >
    > The same would happen on any system with 3 Gig or more of RAM in the 32
    > but world. You have the application itself, prefetches, editing/rendering
    > buffers and more all being shifted into and out of the pagefile at a high
    > rate of speed when the data is needed, plus someting already in RAM has to
    > go back to the pagefile to make room for the new stuff, so that's even
    > more disk work.
    >
    > Hint:Just in case you ever update: Since 10,000 rpm drives are affordable
    > now, they do make a difference in timing for pagefile intensive
    > operations, as does a speedy front side bus of a Giga Hz and fast RAM.
    >
    >>
    >> I realize that I can configure Perfom to trap and record all this
    >> activity, but what is the reality of that data being accurate? I
    >> mean, Perfmon will of course require ram (and swapfile) so would
    >> those pieces of data (in particular evaluating the Deltas) be that
    >> accurate.
    >> So I rambled on, just want to be as complete as I can.
    >>
    >> Thanks.

    >
    >
     
  7. Axel Brotten

    Axel Brotten Flightless Bird

    Thanks for the intel.

    I spoke with the authors of the application assured me that the only Temp
    files MpegVideo Wizad uses are for the MBS File Segments (which are onlyu
    pointers to the actual data in the files).

    I'll look over the other posts, but I suspect that this along with other
    information will help me out a lot.

    I appreciate the help.

    Axel.

    "Pegasus [MVP]" <news@microsoft.com> wrote in message
    news:99028BE2-C9BF-4B7A-90EC-9B1D87C56A46@microsoft.com...
    >
    >
    > "Axel Brotten" <axel.brotten@aol.com> said this in news item
    > news:uSBh#EboKHA.1556@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
    >> Hello all. I have a few questions regarding Swapfiles. First, however
    >> here is my configuration:
    >>
    >> 1) Windows XP Pro (SP3), 3.0 GHZ AMD CPU,
    >> 2) 1GB Ram,
    >> 3) 3 Hard Drives:
    >> Drive C (100GB Programs only - no data),
    >> Drive d (250GB IDE 7200 RPM) data and app installation points,
    >> Web and SQL Data,
    >> Drive E (500 GB Sata 7200 RPM) Data, SQL Log files and edited
    >> Video Files,
    >> 4) Swapfiles:
    >> Drive C: 64mb, dump file only,
    >> Drive D: 1.5 GB
    >> Drive E: 1.5 GB
    >>
    >> So here are my queries:
    >>
    >> 1) Does Windows use the swapfile on a particular drive based on editing
    >> (data storage, copy etc). For example, if I am editing say a video file
    >> on drive D, will Windows use the Swapfile on that drive to store page
    >> fault data? This would seem to be rather foolish as the data is being
    >> edited on the same drive as that swapfile.
    >> 2) How can I tell Windows to use the Swapfile on a particular drive (say
    >> Drive E:) first or can one?
    >> 3) Is there a better way to configure the pagefiles?
    >>
    >> I ask these questions, because I've noticed at several points during the
    >> day that the disk drive light flashes like a banshee on cocaine.
    >> Eventually (typically after about a minute or so) it settles down. This
    >> happens primarily when I edit video files. I understand an realize that
    >> editing video files uses a lot of ram and swapfile, so I don't think we
    >> need to beat that to death. I've even upped ram to 2BG - but the same
    >> thing happens. The same occurs on a different system (similar in config,
    >> except it has dual Pentiums with 4 2 gb ram). So it seems that Windows is
    >> going to use the swapfile anyway (which of course we all know).
    >>
    >> I realize that I can configure Perfom to trap and record all this
    >> activity, but what is the reality of that data being accurate? I mean,
    >> Perfmon will of course require ram (and swapfile) so would those pieces
    >> of data (in particular evaluating the Deltas) be that accurate.
    >>
    >> So I rambled on, just want to be as complete as I can.
    >>
    >> Thanks.

    >
    > You cannot tell Windows how to use its paging file. Where your source file
    > resides is rather irrelevant because the paging file is used to dump data
    > from RAM to disk, not from a disk file back to a disk file. In other
    > words, data always has to be read into RAM first. The destination for the
    > paging operation will then become irrelevant.
    >
    > Most sound and video editing programs let you designate a specific folder
    > for their temporary files (which can be huge). Check the settings on your
    > own video editing application, then adjust them to suit your machine. Some
    > people go as far as creating a RAM drive for this purpose. Others suggest
    > that the disk caching mechanism built into Windows is so advanced that
    > using a RAM drive does not result in an improvement.
     
  8. Axel Brotten

    Axel Brotten Flightless Bird

    [RESOLVED - I think]: Windows Pagefile Questions.

    Thanks to all the replies, a lot of intel and details.

    I took several pieces of information into consideration and basically what I
    did was changed the swapfiles to "System Managed" for each drive except the
    Boot Drive (C:) and performance improved considerably. I also re-installed
    the additional ram, but I didn't notice any significant improvement other
    than apps loading faster. So that is a bonus as well.

    Also, I apologize to the entire post. In my original Post I mentioned Drives
    (C:, D: and E:). I don't know why, but for some reason people always seem to
    jump to the conclusion that one is referring to "Partitions" rather than to
    "Physical" drives. I incorrectly assumed one would understand that I was
    referring to Physical Drives rather than partitions based on my description.
    I'll remember to be "More Precise" in future posts.

    Again, thanks very much to all the replies and assistance.

    Axel.

    "Axel Brotten" <axel.brotten@aol.com> wrote in message
    news:uSBh%23EboKHA.1556@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
    > Hello all. I have a few questions regarding Swapfiles. First, however here
    > is my configuration:
    >
    > 1) Windows XP Pro (SP3), 3.0 GHZ AMD CPU,
    > 2) 1GB Ram,
    > 3) 3 Hard Drives:
    > Drive C (100GB Programs only - no data),
    > Drive d (250GB IDE 7200 RPM) data and app installation points,
    > Web and SQL Data,
    > Drive E (500 GB Sata 7200 RPM) Data, SQL Log files and edited
    > Video Files,
    > 4) Swapfiles:
    > Drive C: 64mb, dump file only,
    > Drive D: 1.5 GB
    > Drive E: 1.5 GB
    >
    > So here are my queries:
    >
    > 1) Does Windows use the swapfile on a particular drive based on editing
    > (data storage, copy etc). For example, if I am editing say a video file on
    > drive D, will Windows use the Swapfile on that drive to store page fault
    > data? This would seem to be rather foolish as the data is being edited on
    > the same drive as that swapfile.
    > 2) How can I tell Windows to use the Swapfile on a particular drive (say
    > Drive E:) first or can one?
    > 3) Is there a better way to configure the pagefiles?
    >
    > I ask these questions, because I've noticed at several points during the
    > day that the disk drive light flashes like a banshee on cocaine.
    > Eventually (typically after about a minute or so) it settles down. This
    > happens primarily when I edit video files. I understand an realize that
    > editing video files uses a lot of ram and swapfile, so I don't think we
    > need to beat that to death. I've even upped ram to 2BG - but the same
    > thing happens. The same occurs on a different system (similar in config,
    > except it has dual Pentiums with 4 2 gb ram). So it seems that Windows is
    > going to use the swapfile anyway (which of course we all know).
    >
    > I realize that I can configure Perfom to trap and record all this
    > activity, but what is the reality of that data being accurate? I mean,
    > Perfmon will of course require ram (and swapfile) so would those pieces of
    > data (in particular evaluating the Deltas) be that accurate.
    >
    > So I rambled on, just want to be as complete as I can.
    >
    > Thanks.
    >
     
  9. John John - MVP

    John John - MVP Flightless Bird

    Axel Brotten wrote:
    > [Snip...]


    > So here are my queries:
    >
    > 1) Does Windows use the swapfile on a particular drive based on editing
    > (data storage, copy etc). For example, if I am editing say a video file on
    > drive D, will Windows use the Swapfile on that drive to store page fault
    > data? This would seem to be rather foolish as the data is being edited on
    > the same drive as that swapfile.


    By default Windows will favour and use the pagefile on the least busy disk.


    > 2) How can I tell Windows to use the Swapfile on a particular drive (say
    > Drive E:) first or can one?


    You can't.


    > 3) Is there a better way to configure the pagefiles?


    It hurts nothing to have a pagefile on each spindle, as per question 1
    Windows will decide which one to use. Keep a pagefile on the boot
    volume so that Windows can create a memory dump file if needed.

    John
     
  10. Axel Brotten

    Axel Brotten Flightless Bird

    Thanks John. I do have (as per my post and your suggestion) a swapfile on
    the Boot drive (C:) of 64 mb for the dumpfile.

    This is a great NG, lots of intel and advice. I've already noticed an
    improvement based on advice and suggestions here.

    Keep up the good work all.

    Again, many thanks.

    Axel.

    "John John - MVP" <audetweld@nbnot.nb.ca> wrote in message
    news:-OZjjPOfoKHA.4836@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
    > Axel Brotten wrote:
    >> [Snip...]

    >
    >> So here are my queries:
    >>
    >> 1) Does Windows use the swapfile on a particular drive based on editing
    >> (data storage, copy etc). For example, if I am editing say a video file
    >> on drive D, will Windows use the Swapfile on that drive to store page
    >> fault data? This would seem to be rather foolish as the data is being
    >> edited on the same drive as that swapfile.

    >
    > By default Windows will favour and use the pagefile on the least busy
    > disk.
    >
    >
    >> 2) How can I tell Windows to use the Swapfile on a particular drive (say
    >> Drive E:) first or can one?

    >
    > You can't.
    >
    >
    >> 3) Is there a better way to configure the pagefiles?

    >
    > It hurts nothing to have a pagefile on each spindle, as per question 1
    > Windows will decide which one to use. Keep a pagefile on the boot volume
    > so that Windows can create a memory dump file if needed.
    >
    > John
     
  11. Pegasus [MVP]

    Pegasus [MVP] Flightless Bird

    Re: [RESOLVED - I think]: Windows Pagefile Questions.

    "Axel Brotten" <axel.brotten@aol.com> said this in news item
    news:-ODgP6BfoKHA.1552@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
    > Thanks to all the replies, a lot of intel and details.
    >

    <snip>
    >
    > Also, I apologize to the entire post. In my original Post I mentioned
    > Drives (C:, D: and E:). I don't know why, but for some reason people
    > always seem to jump to the conclusion that one is referring to
    > "Partitions" rather than to "Physical" drives. I incorrectly assumed one
    > would understand that I was referring to Physical Drives rather than
    > partitions based on my description. I'll remember to be "More Precise" in
    > future posts.
    >
    > Again, thanks very much to all the replies and assistance.
    >
    > Axel.


    I recommend that you use the word "disk" when you mean a physical disk, and
    "drives" when you refer to a formatted partition. This would get around the
    ambiguity. Example: I installed three disks in my PC. Each has two drives.
     
  12. Twayne

    Twayne Flightless Bird

    In news:-OaGSS6eoKHA.1548@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl,
    Axel Brotten <axel.brotten@aol.com> typed:
    > "Ken Blake, MVP" <kblake@this.is.an.invalid.domain> wrote in message
    > news:eek:li8m5tjgmm7h156hgo7i1gt4gqapuen79@4ax.com...
    >> On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 06:36:34 -0700, "Axel Brotten"
    >> <axel.brotten@aol.com> wrote:
    >>
    >>> Hello all. I have a few questions regarding Swapfiles. First,
    >>> however here
    >>> is my configuration:
    >>>
    >>> 1) Windows XP Pro (SP3), 3.0 GHZ AMD CPU,
    >>> 2) 1GB Ram,
    >>> 3) 3 Hard Drives:
    >>> Drive C (100GB Programs only - no data),
    >>> Drive d (250GB IDE 7200 RPM) data and app installation
    >>> points, Web
    >>> and SQL Data,
    >>> Drive E (500 GB Sata 7200 RPM) Data, SQL Log files and
    >>> edited Video Files,
    >>> 4) Swapfiles:
    >>> Drive C: 64mb, dump file only,
    >>> Drive D: 1.5 GB
    >>> Drive E: 1.5 GB
    >>>
    >>> So here are my queries:
    >>>
    >>> 1) Does Windows use the swapfile on a particular drive based on
    >>> editing (data storage, copy etc). For example, if I am editing say
    >>> a video file on
    >>> drive D, will Windows use the Swapfile on that drive to store page
    >>> fault data? This would seem to be rather foolish as the data is
    >>> being edited on the same drive as that swapfile.

    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> It does what it wants to and you can't control it.
    >>
    >>
    >>> 2) How can I tell Windows to use the Swapfile on a particular drive
    >>> (say Drive E:) first or can one?
    >>> 3) Is there a better way to configure the pagefiles?

    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> Yes. You should have a single page file and it should be on drive C:.
    >> Putting any part of it on other partitions puts the page file farther
    >> from the other data on the drive, so the drive heads have to travel
    >> farther to get to and from the page file. That will slow you down
    >> rather than improve performance.

    >
    > Please see my note below - re PARTITIONS... Also, why would one want
    > to put a swapfile on the boot/system drive???


    1. That's almost always where it is by default.
    2. No choice with a single-drive system.
    3. With a 2-drive system, where the second drive has massive amounts of
    activity compared to the operating system requirements activity, you'd want
    the pf on drive C, the boot drive.
    4. etc.

    >>
    >> However, how much it slows you down depends on how much the page file
    >> is used, and that depends on how much RAM you have. The more RAM, the
    >> less page file use, and for many people these days, the difference in
    >> performance is so slight as to be unnoticeable.
    >>
    >> And why do you have partitions D: and E:? It sounds like they contain
    >> much the same sort of thing and there is likely no good reason to
    >> have two such partitions, rather than one.

    >
    > They are NOT partitions. Please reread my post, they are DRIVES.
    >
    >>
    >>
    >>> I ask these questions, because I've noticed at several points
    >>> during the day
    >>> that the disk drive light flashes like a banshee on cocaine.
    >>> Eventually (typically after about a minute or so) it settles down.
    >>> This happens primarily when I edit video files. I understand an
    >>> realize that editing video files uses a lot of ram and swapfile, so
    >>> I don't think we need to beat
    >>> that to death. I've even upped ram to 2BG - but the same thing
    >>> happens. The
    >>> same occurs on a different system (similar in config, except it has
    >>> dual Pentiums with 4 2 gb ram). So it seems that Windows is going
    >>> to use the swapfile anyway (which of course we all know).

    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> Not true. You are mixing up *using* the page file with *allocating*
    >> space on it. It will often do the latter (to improve performance in
    >> case it needs it), but not the former.

    >
    > What's "Not True"??? I never mentioned anything about allocating
    > "Versus" using. My question(s) are pretty clear I thought. Can I
    > control/tell Windows which swapfile to use. As mentioned in my
    > comment above, the same thing happens with a system with "Twice the
    > PHYSICAL Ram" and another system with "Duallies and Twice the Ram".
    > So "Not True" is not clear to me. Please explain. Thanks.


    I thought you were pretty clear about it personally but others with
    different native languages may have had some interpretation problems.
    No, AFAIK there isn't any way to control which of multiple drives are
    used at any particular point in time or drive use.

    You'll find there are differeing opinions on pagefile uses, but in general
    the following links might help a lot. One error I think I may have made:
    The pagefile that gets used might go to the drive showing the least activity
    on it instead of as I described it in a previous post. It's news to me, but
    if true might justify your use of so many pagefiles, but ... <g>.

    http://search.techrepublic.com.com/search/windows+xp+pagefile.html

    http://tweakhound.com/xp/xptweaks/supertweaks5.htm

    http://www.pcstats.com/articleview.cfm?articleid=1494&page=2

    HTH,

    Twayne






    >>
    >>
    >>> I realize that I can configure Perfom to trap and record all this
    >>> activity,
    >>> but what is the reality of that data being accurate? I mean,
    >>> Perfmon will of
    >>> course require ram (and swapfile) so would those pieces of data (in
    >>> particular evaluating the Deltas) be that accurate.
    >>>
    >>> So I rambled on, just want to be as complete as I can.
    >>>
    >>> Thanks.
    >>>

    >>
    >> --
    >> Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP (Windows Desktop Experience) since 2003
    >> Please Reply to the Newsgroup
     
  13. Ken Blake, MVP

    Ken Blake, MVP Flightless Bird

    On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 13:55:34 -0700, "Axel Brotten"
    <axel.brotten@aol.com> wrote:

    >
    >
    > "Ken Blake, MVP" <kblake@this.is.an.invalid.domain> wrote in message
    > news:eek:li8m5tjgmm7h156hgo7i1gt4gqapuen79@4ax.com...
    > > On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 06:36:34 -0700, "Axel Brotten"
    > > <axel.brotten@aol.com> wrote:
    > >
    > >> Hello all. I have a few questions regarding Swapfiles. First, however
    > >> here
    > >> is my configuration:
    > >>
    > >> 1) Windows XP Pro (SP3), 3.0 GHZ AMD CPU,
    > >> 2) 1GB Ram,
    > >> 3) 3 Hard Drives:
    > >> Drive C (100GB Programs only - no data),
    > >> Drive d (250GB IDE 7200 RPM) data and app installation points,
    > >> Web
    > >> and SQL Data,
    > >> Drive E (500 GB Sata 7200 RPM) Data, SQL Log files and edited
    > >> Video Files,
    > >> 4) Swapfiles:
    > >> Drive C: 64mb, dump file only,
    > >> Drive D: 1.5 GB
    > >> Drive E: 1.5 GB
    > >>
    > >> So here are my queries:
    > >>
    > >> 1) Does Windows use the swapfile on a particular drive based on editing
    > >> (data storage, copy etc). For example, if I am editing say a video file
    > >> on
    > >> drive D, will Windows use the Swapfile on that drive to store page fault
    > >> data? This would seem to be rather foolish as the data is being edited on
    > >> the same drive as that swapfile.

    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > It does what it wants to and you can't control it.
    > >
    > >
    > >> 2) How can I tell Windows to use the Swapfile on a particular drive (say
    > >> Drive E:) first or can one?
    > >> 3) Is there a better way to configure the pagefiles?

    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > Yes. You should have a single page file and it should be on drive C:.
    > > Putting any part of it on other partitions puts the page file farther
    > > from the other data on the drive, so the drive heads have to travel
    > > farther to get to and from the page file. That will slow you down
    > > rather than improve performance.

    >
    > Please see my note below - re PARTITIONS... Also, why would one want to put
    > a swapfile on the boot/system drive???





    Because most people don't have any other choice, other than a
    different partition on the that drive.


    > > However, how much it slows you down depends on how much the page file
    > > is used, and that depends on how much RAM you have. The more RAM, the
    > > less page file use, and for many people these days, the difference in
    > > performance is so slight as to be unnoticeable.
    > >
    > > And why do you have partitions D: and E:? It sounds like they contain
    > > much the same sort of thing and there is likely no good reason to have
    > > two such partitions, rather than one.

    >
    > They are NOT partitions. Please reread my post, they are DRIVES.



    Yes, I see that now. My error, and my apologies. Putting it a separate
    physical drive is *good*, since it decreases head movement.



    > >> I ask these questions, because I've noticed at several points during the
    > >> day
    > >> that the disk drive light flashes like a banshee on cocaine. Eventually
    > >> (typically after about a minute or so) it settles down. This happens
    > >> primarily when I edit video files. I understand an realize that editing
    > >> video files uses a lot of ram and swapfile, so I don't think we need to
    > >> beat
    > >> that to death. I've even upped ram to 2BG - but the same thing happens.
    > >> The
    > >> same occurs on a different system (similar in config, except it has dual
    > >> Pentiums with 4 2 gb ram). So it seems that Windows is going to use the
    > >> swapfile anyway (which of course we all know).

    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > Not true. You are mixing up *using* the page file with *allocating*
    > > space on it. It will often do the latter (to improve performance in
    > > case it needs it), but not the former.

    >
    > What's "Not True"??? I never mentioned anything about allocating "Versus"
    > using. My question(s) are pretty clear I thought. Can I control/tell Windows
    > which swapfile to use. As mentioned in my comment above, the same thing
    > happens with a system with "Twice the PHYSICAL Ram" and another system with
    > "Duallies and Twice the Ram". So "Not True" is not clear to me. Please
    > explain. Thanks.
    > >
    > >
    > >> I realize that I can configure Perfom to trap and record all this
    > >> activity,
    > >> but what is the reality of that data being accurate? I mean, Perfmon will
    > >> of
    > >> course require ram (and swapfile) so would those pieces of data (in
    > >> particular evaluating the Deltas) be that accurate.
    > >>
    > >> So I rambled on, just want to be as complete as I can.
    > >>
    > >> Thanks.
    > >>

    > >
    > > --
    > > Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP (Windows Desktop Experience) since 2003
    > > Please Reply to the Newsgroup

    >


    --
    Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP (Windows Desktop Experience) since 2003
    Please Reply to the Newsgroup
     

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