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Which usb-sata/eide adaptor?

Discussion in 'Windows XP' started by spamlet, May 29, 2010.

  1. spamlet

    spamlet Flightless Bird

    I've been following the thread on hard drive updates as I need to replace
    drives on both a laptop - Inspiron 2600 (eide)
    - and a desktop pc (sata)

    The usb-sata etc adaptor seems a very useful device, but after 'googling'
    for them here in the UK I am a bit unsure what to buy. There are many
    different ones on offer and a wide range of prices. Also there are warnings
    from some users about some of them containing faulty chips that can corrupt
    data. The last thing anyone wants in such a device is that kind of
    unreliability! Some of the advertisers do specify which chip set is used,
    but others do not, so 'buying something similar' to the one quoted in the
    other thread is not proving to be as
    straight forward as expected.

    Does anyone have advice of which models/suppliers are fully reliable and
    safe, and available in the UK at a reasonable price?

    Thanks,

    S
     
  2. peter

    peter Flightless Bird

    why would you need one.
    I am sure your desktop PC has 2 internal SATA connectors buy a new SATA
    drive
    hook it up and clone the old drive to the new.
    As for the Laptop buy an EIDE drive and an external HD case which connects
    the HD internally with EIDE pins but connects to your Laptop externally with
    USB.
    ?????

    peter

    --
    If you find a posting or message from me offensive,inappropriate
    or disruptive,please ignore it.
    If you dont know how to ignore a posting complain
    to me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate :)


    "spamlet" <spam.morespam@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
    news:-OFdikMz$KHA.1700@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
    > I've been following the thread on hard drive updates as I need to replace
    > drives on both a laptop - Inspiron 2600 (eide)
    > - and a desktop pc (sata)
    >
    > The usb-sata etc adaptor seems a very useful device, but after 'googling'
    > for them here in the UK I am a bit unsure what to buy. There are many
    > different ones on offer and a wide range of prices. Also there are
    > warnings
    > from some users about some of them containing faulty chips that can
    > corrupt
    > data. The last thing anyone wants in such a device is that kind of
    > unreliability! Some of the advertisers do specify which chip set is used,
    > but others do not, so 'buying something similar' to the one quoted in the
    > other thread is not proving to be as
    > straight forward as expected.
    >
    > Does anyone have advice of which models/suppliers are fully reliable and
    > safe, and available in the UK at a reasonable price?
    >
    > Thanks,
    >
    > S
    >
    >
     
  3. Paul

    Paul Flightless Bird

    spamlet wrote:
    > I've been following the thread on hard drive updates as I need to replace
    > drives on both a laptop - Inspiron 2600 (eide)
    > - and a desktop pc (sata)
    >
    > The usb-sata etc adaptor seems a very useful device, but after 'googling'
    > for them here in the UK I am a bit unsure what to buy. There are many
    > different ones on offer and a wide range of prices. Also there are warnings
    > from some users about some of them containing faulty chips that can corrupt
    > data. The last thing anyone wants in such a device is that kind of
    > unreliability! Some of the advertisers do specify which chip set is used,
    > but others do not, so 'buying something similar' to the one quoted in the
    > other thread is not proving to be as
    > straight forward as expected.
    >
    > Does anyone have advice of which models/suppliers are fully reliable and
    > safe, and available in the UK at a reasonable price?
    >
    > Thanks,
    >
    > S
    >
    >


    Find a web site with customer reviews. Don't buy the product
    unless the reviews are clean and trouble free. If the customer
    reviews are OK, then it must be fit for purpose.

    For example, reading a few reviews on this one, a common theme
    is - "destroyed my hard drive".

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.aspx?Item=N82E16812156102

    None of the units seem to be perfect, so select one which doesn't
    ruin anything! It seems the quality of the power adapter that comes
    with the products, is one issue.

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...10353&Subcategory=353&srchInDesc=usb+sata+ide

    Paul
     
  4. spamlet

    spamlet Flightless Bird

    Hi Peter, thanks for the response.

    Yes, those are other ways of doing this, but it does seem that a USB adaptor
    that would take the various drives without needing to buy enclosures for
    each, would be handy - especially as this would also make cheap offdesk
    storage/backup easier.

    Do the external EIDE cases have their own power supply?

    Getting off topic a bit but as you raised the issue: I'm having trouble
    establishing what drives I can actually use. The Dell Laptop Inspiron 2600
    (XP Home SP3), is said on a Dell forum to only be capable of recognising
    drives up to 80 gig - but I see plenty of bigger ones on offer?

    The desktop is also a Dell (Optiplex GX270 XPPro SP3 ) and does seem to
    have a sata connector going spare, but again, when I made enquiries on a
    Dell forum they also said there were limits to the capacity of drive that
    would recognise as well. So I've been a long time getting round to making
    the upgrades as there seems to be one view that pretty well anything with
    the right connector will work, and another that each computer has its own
    limits. It is all rather confusing, so if you have any further experience
    to share on this I would be grateful.

    Cheers,

    S

    "peter" <peter@nowhere.net> wrote in message
    news:3A349EA4-D139-4356-AA19-7450077CE2CB@microsoft.com...
    > why would you need one.
    > I am sure your desktop PC has 2 internal SATA connectors buy a new SATA
    > drive
    > hook it up and clone the old drive to the new.
    > As for the Laptop buy an EIDE drive and an external HD case which connects
    > the HD internally with EIDE pins but connects to your Laptop externally
    > with USB.
    > ?????
    >
    > peter
    >
    > --
    > If you find a posting or message from me offensive,inappropriate
    > or disruptive,please ignore it.
    > If you dont know how to ignore a posting complain
    > to me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate :)
    >
    >
    > "spamlet" <spam.morespam@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
    > news:-OFdikMz$KHA.1700@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
    >> I've been following the thread on hard drive updates as I need to replace
    >> drives on both a laptop - Inspiron 2600 (eide)
    >> - and a desktop pc (sata)
    >>
    >> The usb-sata etc adaptor seems a very useful device, but after 'googling'
    >> for them here in the UK I am a bit unsure what to buy. There are many
    >> different ones on offer and a wide range of prices. Also there are
    >> warnings
    >> from some users about some of them containing faulty chips that can
    >> corrupt
    >> data. The last thing anyone wants in such a device is that kind of
    >> unreliability! Some of the advertisers do specify which chip set is
    >> used,
    >> but others do not, so 'buying something similar' to the one quoted in the
    >> other thread is not proving to be as
    >> straight forward as expected.
    >>
    >> Does anyone have advice of which models/suppliers are fully reliable and
    >> safe, and available in the UK at a reasonable price?
    >>
    >> Thanks,
    >>
    >> S
    >>
    >>
     
  5. spamlet

    spamlet Flightless Bird

    "Paul" <nospam@needed.com> wrote in message
    news:htrinn$skk$1@speranza.aioe.org...
    > spamlet wrote:
    >> I've been following the thread on hard drive updates as I need to replace
    >> drives on both a laptop - Inspiron 2600 (eide)
    >> - and a desktop pc (sata)
    >>
    >> The usb-sata etc adaptor seems a very useful device, but after 'googling'
    >> for them here in the UK I am a bit unsure what to buy. There are many
    >> different ones on offer and a wide range of prices. Also there are
    >> warnings
    >> from some users about some of them containing faulty chips that can
    >> corrupt
    >> data. The last thing anyone wants in such a device is that kind of
    >> unreliability! Some of the advertisers do specify which chip set is
    >> used,
    >> but others do not, so 'buying something similar' to the one quoted in the
    >> other thread is not proving to be as
    >> straight forward as expected.
    >>
    >> Does anyone have advice of which models/suppliers are fully reliable and
    >> safe, and available in the UK at a reasonable price?
    >>
    >> Thanks,
    >>
    >> S
    >>
    >>

    >
    > Find a web site with customer reviews. Don't buy the product
    > unless the reviews are clean and trouble free. If the customer
    > reviews are OK, then it must be fit for purpose.
    >
    > For example, reading a few reviews on this one, a common theme
    > is - "destroyed my hard drive".
    >
    > http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.aspx?Item=N82E16812156102
    >
    > None of the units seem to be perfect, so select one which doesn't
    > ruin anything! It seems the quality of the power adapter that comes
    > with the products, is one issue.
    >
    > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...10353&Subcategory=353&srchInDesc=usb+sata+ide
    >
    > Paul


    Thanks Paul,

    That's pretty well put me off all of them!

    S
     
  6. Paul

    Paul Flightless Bird

    spamlet wrote:
    > Hi Peter, thanks for the response.
    >
    > Yes, those are other ways of doing this, but it does seem that a USB adaptor
    > that would take the various drives without needing to buy enclosures for
    > each, would be handy - especially as this would also make cheap offdesk
    > storage/backup easier.
    >
    > Do the external EIDE cases have their own power supply?
    >
    > Getting off topic a bit but as you raised the issue: I'm having trouble
    > establishing what drives I can actually use. The Dell Laptop Inspiron 2600
    > (XP Home SP3), is said on a Dell forum to only be capable of recognising
    > drives up to 80 gig - but I see plenty of bigger ones on offer?
    >
    > The desktop is also a Dell (Optiplex GX270 XPPro SP3 ) and does seem to
    > have a sata connector going spare, but again, when I made enquiries on a
    > Dell forum they also said there were limits to the capacity of drive that
    > would recognise as well. So I've been a long time getting round to making
    > the upgrades as there seems to be one view that pretty well anything with
    > the right connector will work, and another that each computer has its own
    > limits. It is all rather confusing, so if you have any further experience
    > to share on this I would be grateful.
    >
    > Cheers,
    >
    > S


    The Inspiron 2600 uses an Intel 830MG chipset.

    http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/ins2600/en/sm_en/specs.htm

    You can find the 830MG mentioned in here. This document addresses the 137GB
    capacity limit, causes by computers not fully supporting 48 bit LBA addressing
    mode.

    http://web.archive.org/web/20070121085230/http://www.seagate.com/support/kb/disc/tp/137gb.pdf

    If you wanted to remain "safe and issue free", you could purchase a 120 GB
    laptop IDE drive or smaller. Or, buy one larger in capacity than that, and see
    whether there are any BIOS issues or not. The Seagate document, mentions
    workarounds of one sort and another, for issues other than the BIOS response.

    The basic mechanism, of how 48 bit LBA mode was supported, is described in this
    technical proposal from long ago. This describes how the IDE registers were
    "double pumped", to allow passing larger addresses. It isn't much of an
    explanation as such, but shows how a 28 bit address would be supported,
    versus a 48 bit address. Just read the first couple pages, to get some
    idea.

    http://www.t10.org/t13/technical/e00101r6.pdf

    *******

    The Optiplex GX270 is 865G/ICH5, and I wouldn't expect an issue with that
    with regard to the SATA port.

    http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/opgx270/en/ug/specs.htm

    An example of a SATA port with a capacity issue, was with motherboards
    using a Silicon Image SIL3112. Connecting a 1TB drive to the onboard
    SIL3112, caused the system to freeze in the BIOS. There are few other
    issues with SATA.

    A number of VIA chipsets, have an issue with 3Gbit/sec versus 1.5Gbit/sec
    operation of the SATA cable. Using the "Force150" jumper on the SATA drive
    fixes that. Your GX270 doesn't use a VIA chipset, so no issue there.

    Sometimes, you might need a power adapter cable, if your computer lacks
    the proper connector to power the SATA drive. Example here. You also
    need a SATA data cable, if one isn't already in the computer.

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812201002

    Paul

    >
    > "peter" <peter@nowhere.net> wrote in message
    > news:3A349EA4-D139-4356-AA19-7450077CE2CB@microsoft.com...
    >> why would you need one.
    >> I am sure your desktop PC has 2 internal SATA connectors buy a new SATA
    >> drive
    >> hook it up and clone the old drive to the new.
    >> As for the Laptop buy an EIDE drive and an external HD case which connects
    >> the HD internally with EIDE pins but connects to your Laptop externally
    >> with USB.
    >> ?????
    >>
    >> peter
    >>
    >> --
    >> If you find a posting or message from me offensive,inappropriate
    >> or disruptive,please ignore it.
    >> If you dont know how to ignore a posting complain
    >> to me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate :)
    >>
    >>
    >> "spamlet" <spam.morespam@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
    >> news:-OFdikMz$KHA.1700@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
    >>> I've been following the thread on hard drive updates as I need to replace
    >>> drives on both a laptop - Inspiron 2600 (eide)
    >>> - and a desktop pc (sata)
    >>>
    >>> The usb-sata etc adaptor seems a very useful device, but after 'googling'
    >>> for them here in the UK I am a bit unsure what to buy. There are many
    >>> different ones on offer and a wide range of prices. Also there are
    >>> warnings
    >>> from some users about some of them containing faulty chips that can
    >>> corrupt
    >>> data. The last thing anyone wants in such a device is that kind of
    >>> unreliability! Some of the advertisers do specify which chip set is
    >>> used,
    >>> but others do not, so 'buying something similar' to the one quoted in the
    >>> other thread is not proving to be as
    >>> straight forward as expected.
    >>>
    >>> Does anyone have advice of which models/suppliers are fully reliable and
    >>> safe, and available in the UK at a reasonable price?
    >>>
    >>> Thanks,
    >>>
    >>> S
    >>>
    >>>

    >
    >
     
  7. spamlet

    spamlet Flightless Bird

    "Paul" <nospam@needed.com> wrote in message
    news:htroh3$558$1@speranza.aioe.org...
    > spamlet wrote:
    >> Hi Peter, thanks for the response.
    >>
    >> Yes, those are other ways of doing this, but it does seem that a USB
    >> adaptor that would take the various drives without needing to buy
    >> enclosures for each, would be handy - especially as this would also make
    >> cheap offdesk storage/backup easier.
    >>
    >> Do the external EIDE cases have their own power supply?
    >>
    >> Getting off topic a bit but as you raised the issue: I'm having trouble
    >> establishing what drives I can actually use. The Dell Laptop Inspiron
    >> 2600 (XP Home SP3), is said on a Dell forum to only be capable of
    >> recognising drives up to 80 gig - but I see plenty of bigger ones on
    >> offer?
    >>
    >> The desktop is also a Dell (Optiplex GX270 XPPro SP3 ) and does seem to
    >> have a sata connector going spare, but again, when I made enquiries on a
    >> Dell forum they also said there were limits to the capacity of drive that
    >> would recognise as well. So I've been a long time getting round to
    >> making the upgrades as there seems to be one view that pretty well
    >> anything with the right connector will work, and another that each
    >> computer has its own limits. It is all rather confusing, so if you have
    >> any further experience to share on this I would be grateful.
    >>
    >> Cheers,
    >>
    >> S

    >
    > The Inspiron 2600 uses an Intel 830MG chipset.
    >
    > http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/ins2600/en/sm_en/specs.htm
    >
    > You can find the 830MG mentioned in here. This document addresses the
    > 137GB
    > capacity limit, causes by computers not fully supporting 48 bit LBA
    > addressing
    > mode.
    >
    > http://web.archive.org/web/20070121085230/http://www.seagate.com/support/kb/disc/tp/137gb.pdf
    >
    > If you wanted to remain "safe and issue free", you could purchase a 120 GB
    > laptop IDE drive or smaller. Or, buy one larger in capacity than that, and
    > see
    > whether there are any BIOS issues or not. The Seagate document, mentions
    > workarounds of one sort and another, for issues other than the BIOS
    > response.
    >
    > The basic mechanism, of how 48 bit LBA mode was supported, is described in
    > this
    > technical proposal from long ago. This describes how the IDE registers
    > were
    > "double pumped", to allow passing larger addresses. It isn't much of an
    > explanation as such, but shows how a 28 bit address would be supported,
    > versus a 48 bit address. Just read the first couple pages, to get some
    > idea.
    >
    > http://www.t10.org/t13/technical/e00101r6.pdf
    >
    > *******
    >
    > The Optiplex GX270 is 865G/ICH5, and I wouldn't expect an issue with that
    > with regard to the SATA port.
    >
    > http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/opgx270/en/ug/specs.htm
    >
    > An example of a SATA port with a capacity issue, was with motherboards
    > using a Silicon Image SIL3112. Connecting a 1TB drive to the onboard
    > SIL3112, caused the system to freeze in the BIOS. There are few other
    > issues with SATA.
    >
    > A number of VIA chipsets, have an issue with 3Gbit/sec versus 1.5Gbit/sec
    > operation of the SATA cable. Using the "Force150" jumper on the SATA drive
    > fixes that. Your GX270 doesn't use a VIA chipset, so no issue there.
    >
    > Sometimes, you might need a power adapter cable, if your computer lacks
    > the proper connector to power the SATA drive. Example here. You also
    > need a SATA data cable, if one isn't already in the computer.
    >
    > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812201002
    >
    > Paul



    Paul this is an amazing response and I thank you very much for finding all
    this information for me.

    The Seagate article seems to imply that if I have XP Pro or Home fully up to
    date then this capacity issue will not apply.

    However, you kindly pointed out the chipset on the laptop, which is
    mentioned as having an Intel Application Accelerator v2.3 update available
    as an alternative way of addressing the issue. Not sure whether this means
    I should try to obtain that as well as being up to date with XP?


    The GX270 as I recall looking inside has 40gig IDE drive and a space for a
    SATA. So I was hoping a swap would be quite straight forward aside from the
    alleged capacity issue?, but I have just read on another forum that to image
    a drive it needs to be IDE to IDE or SATA to SATA. So if I image my 40 gig
    drive onto a bigger SATA drive it wouldn't work. Is this true. It seems
    the more I look into this the more caveats I find!

    Anyhow, I can't thank you enough for taking so much trouble over your reply.

    Cheers,
    S



    >>
    >> "peter" <peter@nowhere.net> wrote in message
    >> news:3A349EA4-D139-4356-AA19-7450077CE2CB@microsoft.com...
    >>> why would you need one.
    >>> I am sure your desktop PC has 2 internal SATA connectors buy a new SATA
    >>> drive
    >>> hook it up and clone the old drive to the new.
    >>> As for the Laptop buy an EIDE drive and an external HD case which
    >>> connects
    >>> the HD internally with EIDE pins but connects to your Laptop externally
    >>> with USB.
    >>> ?????
    >>>
    >>> peter
    >>>
    >>> --
    >>> If you find a posting or message from me offensive,inappropriate
    >>> or disruptive,please ignore it.
    >>> If you dont know how to ignore a posting complain
    >>> to me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate :)
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> "spamlet" <spam.morespam@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
    >>> news:-OFdikMz$KHA.1700@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
    >>>> I've been following the thread on hard drive updates as I need to
    >>>> replace drives on both a laptop - Inspiron 2600 (eide)
    >>>> - and a desktop pc (sata)
    >>>>
    >>>> The usb-sata etc adaptor seems a very useful device, but after
    >>>> 'googling'
    >>>> for them here in the UK I am a bit unsure what to buy. There are many
    >>>> different ones on offer and a wide range of prices. Also there are
    >>>> warnings
    >>>> from some users about some of them containing faulty chips that can
    >>>> corrupt
    >>>> data. The last thing anyone wants in such a device is that kind of
    >>>> unreliability! Some of the advertisers do specify which chip set is
    >>>> used,
    >>>> but others do not, so 'buying something similar' to the one quoted in
    >>>> the other thread is not proving to be as
    >>>> straight forward as expected.
    >>>>
    >>>> Does anyone have advice of which models/suppliers are fully reliable
    >>>> and
    >>>> safe, and available in the UK at a reasonable price?
    >>>>
    >>>> Thanks,
    >>>>
    >>>> S
    >>>>
    >>>>

    >>
     
  8. Paul

    Paul Flightless Bird

    spamlet wrote:

    >
    >
    > Paul this is an amazing response and I thank you very much for finding all
    > this information for me.
    >
    > The Seagate article seems to imply that if I have XP Pro or Home fully up to
    > date then this capacity issue will not apply.
    >
    > However, you kindly pointed out the chipset on the laptop, which is
    > mentioned as having an Intel Application Accelerator v2.3 update available
    > as an alternative way of addressing the issue. Not sure whether this means
    > I should try to obtain that as well as being up to date with XP?
    >
    >
    > The GX270 as I recall looking inside has 40gig IDE drive and a space for a
    > SATA. So I was hoping a swap would be quite straight forward aside from the
    > alleged capacity issue?, but I have just read on another forum that to image
    > a drive it needs to be IDE to IDE or SATA to SATA. So if I image my 40 gig
    > drive onto a bigger SATA drive it wouldn't work. Is this true. It seems
    > the more I look into this the more caveats I find!
    >
    > Anyhow, I can't thank you enough for taking so much trouble over your reply.
    >
    > Cheers,
    > S


    For the GX270, that would depend to some extent on the modes supported
    in the BIOS, for the ICH5 Southbridge SATA and IDE ports.

    Intel has a mode called "Compatible", and that makes a SATA
    drive look identical to an IDE drive. Compatible allows the usage
    of four of the potential six spots for drives. Your Dell may not
    have implemented all six anyway, and only provided four places
    for drives. If such is the case, the Compatible setting
    may be available to you, and not upset anything. It might even
    already be in Compatible mode, or not even bother to mention
    it is using Compatible mode all the time. If the motherboard
    has room to plug in six drives, then the settings in the BIOS
    should be a bit more complicated.

    The second mode you can get on ICH5, is "Native". That moves the
    interface for the drive, into the PCI address space. A slightly
    different driver is used, but if you're already running a
    recent Service Pack for WinXP, you might already be all set there.

    The beauty about trying these things, is "cloning" doesn't hurt
    anything. You copy the entire old drive, to the new one. Disconnect
    the old drive, for the boot attempt, then try to boot with the new
    drive. If you got it wrong somehow, you can always go back to the
    original drive, then ask around for suggestions. So it's not
    like the attempt is destructive or anything. It's just like
    making a backup.

    Intel chipsets can have other modes, with names like "AHCI" or
    "RAID". Those may require pressing F6 and installing a driver
    on a floppy, at the beginning of the Windows install. There are
    sometimes recipes, for getting around the installation issue in
    that case, but the procedures can be pretty complicated. As
    far as I know, you shouldn't need any of that complication,
    for your currently planned cloning attempts.

    In any case, as long as you can find an easy way to do the drive
    copying, you should be all set. There has got to be at least
    one USB to SATA/IDE adapter that isn't a dud, out there.

    I can't promise how the Inspiron BIOS is going to behave,
    if you connect a much larger drive. If you don't really need
    the space that badly, I'd just go with a 120GB sized one
    (to stay under 137G8). Actually, the drive with the best
    ratings, in the IDE category of 2.5" drives on Newegg, is
    an 80GB one (5400 RPM). $50.

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136129

    Paul
     
  9. spamlet

    spamlet Flightless Bird

    "Paul" <nospam@needed.com> wrote in message
    news:htsduf$uk0$1@speranza.aioe.org...
    > spamlet wrote:
    >
    >>
    >>
    >> Paul this is an amazing response and I thank you very much for finding
    >> all this information for me.
    >>
    >> The Seagate article seems to imply that if I have XP Pro or Home fully up
    >> to date then this capacity issue will not apply.
    >>
    >> However, you kindly pointed out the chipset on the laptop, which is
    >> mentioned as having an Intel Application Accelerator v2.3 update
    >> available as an alternative way of addressing the issue. Not sure
    >> whether this means I should try to obtain that as well as being up to
    >> date with XP?
    >>
    >>
    >> The GX270 as I recall looking inside has 40gig IDE drive and a space for
    >> a SATA. So I was hoping a swap would be quite straight forward aside
    >> from the alleged capacity issue?, but I have just read on another forum
    >> that to image a drive it needs to be IDE to IDE or SATA to SATA. So if I
    >> image my 40 gig drive onto a bigger SATA drive it wouldn't work. Is this
    >> true. It seems the more I look into this the more caveats I find!
    >>
    >> Anyhow, I can't thank you enough for taking so much trouble over your
    >> reply.
    >>
    >> Cheers,
    >> S

    >
    > For the GX270, that would depend to some extent on the modes supported
    > in the BIOS, for the ICH5 Southbridge SATA and IDE ports.
    >
    > Intel has a mode called "Compatible", and that makes a SATA
    > drive look identical to an IDE drive. Compatible allows the usage
    > of four of the potential six spots for drives. Your Dell may not
    > have implemented all six anyway, and only provided four places
    > for drives. If such is the case, the Compatible setting
    > may be available to you, and not upset anything. It might even
    > already be in Compatible mode, or not even bother to mention
    > it is using Compatible mode all the time. If the motherboard
    > has room to plug in six drives, then the settings in the BIOS
    > should be a bit more complicated.
    >
    > The second mode you can get on ICH5, is "Native". That moves the
    > interface for the drive, into the PCI address space. A slightly
    > different driver is used, but if you're already running a
    > recent Service Pack for WinXP, you might already be all set there.
    >
    > The beauty about trying these things, is "cloning" doesn't hurt
    > anything. You copy the entire old drive, to the new one. Disconnect
    > the old drive, for the boot attempt, then try to boot with the new
    > drive. If you got it wrong somehow, you can always go back to the
    > original drive, then ask around for suggestions. So it's not
    > like the attempt is destructive or anything. It's just like
    > making a backup.
    >
    > Intel chipsets can have other modes, with names like "AHCI" or
    > "RAID". Those may require pressing F6 and installing a driver
    > on a floppy, at the beginning of the Windows install. There are
    > sometimes recipes, for getting around the installation issue in
    > that case, but the procedures can be pretty complicated. As
    > far as I know, you shouldn't need any of that complication,
    > for your currently planned cloning attempts.
    >
    > In any case, as long as you can find an easy way to do the drive
    > copying, you should be all set. There has got to be at least
    > one USB to SATA/IDE adapter that isn't a dud, out there.
    >
    > I can't promise how the Inspiron BIOS is going to behave,
    > if you connect a much larger drive. If you don't really need
    > the space that badly, I'd just go with a 120GB sized one
    > (to stay under 137G8). Actually, the drive with the best
    > ratings, in the IDE category of 2.5" drives on Newegg, is
    > an 80GB one (5400 RPM). $50.
    >
    > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136129
    >
    > Paul


    Thank you very much Paul, you are giving me a lot more confidence: I'll give
    them a try.

    Cheers,

    S
     
  10. spamlet

    spamlet Flightless Bird

    "Paul" <nospam@needed.com> wrote in message
    news:htsduf$uk0$1@speranza.aioe.org...
    > spamlet wrote:
    >
    >>
    >>
    >> Paul this is an amazing response and I thank you very much for finding
    >> all this information for me.
    >>
    >> The Seagate article seems to imply that if I have XP Pro or Home fully up
    >> to date then this capacity issue will not apply.
    >>
    >> However, you kindly pointed out the chipset on the laptop, which is
    >> mentioned as having an Intel Application Accelerator v2.3 update
    >> available as an alternative way of addressing the issue. Not sure
    >> whether this means I should try to obtain that as well as being up to
    >> date with XP?
    >>
    >>
    >> The GX270 as I recall looking inside has 40gig IDE drive and a space for
    >> a SATA. So I was hoping a swap would be quite straight forward aside
    >> from the alleged capacity issue?, but I have just read on another forum
    >> that to image a drive it needs to be IDE to IDE or SATA to SATA. So if I
    >> image my 40 gig drive onto a bigger SATA drive it wouldn't work. Is this
    >> true. It seems the more I look into this the more caveats I find!
    >>
    >> Anyhow, I can't thank you enough for taking so much trouble over your
    >> reply.
    >>
    >> Cheers,
    >> S

    >
    > For the GX270, that would depend to some extent on the modes supported
    > in the BIOS, for the ICH5 Southbridge SATA and IDE ports.
    >
    > Intel has a mode called "Compatible", and that makes a SATA
    > drive look identical to an IDE drive. Compatible allows the usage
    > of four of the potential six spots for drives. Your Dell may not
    > have implemented all six anyway, and only provided four places
    > for drives. If such is the case, the Compatible setting
    > may be available to you, and not upset anything. It might even
    > already be in Compatible mode, or not even bother to mention
    > it is using Compatible mode all the time. If the motherboard
    > has room to plug in six drives, then the settings in the BIOS
    > should be a bit more complicated.
    >
    > The second mode you can get on ICH5, is "Native". That moves the
    > interface for the drive, into the PCI address space. A slightly
    > different driver is used, but if you're already running a
    > recent Service Pack for WinXP, you might already be all set there.
    >
    > The beauty about trying these things, is "cloning" doesn't hurt
    > anything. You copy the entire old drive, to the new one. Disconnect
    > the old drive, for the boot attempt, then try to boot with the new
    > drive. If you got it wrong somehow, you can always go back to the
    > original drive, then ask around for suggestions. So it's not
    > like the attempt is destructive or anything. It's just like
    > making a backup.
    >
    > Intel chipsets can have other modes, with names like "AHCI" or
    > "RAID". Those may require pressing F6 and installing a driver
    > on a floppy, at the beginning of the Windows install. There are
    > sometimes recipes, for getting around the installation issue in
    > that case, but the procedures can be pretty complicated. As
    > far as I know, you shouldn't need any of that complication,
    > for your currently planned cloning attempts.
    >
    > In any case, as long as you can find an easy way to do the drive
    > copying, you should be all set. There has got to be at least
    > one USB to SATA/IDE adapter that isn't a dud, out there.
    >
    > I can't promise how the Inspiron BIOS is going to behave,
    > if you connect a much larger drive. If you don't really need
    > the space that badly, I'd just go with a 120GB sized one
    > (to stay under 137G8). Actually, the drive with the best
    > ratings, in the IDE category of 2.5" drives on Newegg, is
    > an 80GB one (5400 RPM). $50.
    >
    > http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136129
    >
    > Paul


    Right,

    I've got myself a WD 80gig drive for the laptop as you recommended, and got
    a usb enclosure to go with it.
    From the thread on fitting new drives, I got the address for the WD version
    of Acronis, and downloaded it, but it won't complete its install unless I
    have a WD drive fitted! The drive only shows as a generic USB drive in
    device manager, so I guess that is why WD think I don't have a WD drive
    fitted. Have I been sold a fake drive (It only shows as 76gig), or is this
    just WD being silly in assuming people will never install via usb?

    Cheers,

    S
     
  11. Paul

    Paul Flightless Bird

    spamlet wrote:
    > "Paul" <nospam@needed.com> wrote in message
    > news:htsduf$uk0$1@speranza.aioe.org...
    >> spamlet wrote:
    >>
    >>>
    >>> Paul this is an amazing response and I thank you very much for finding
    >>> all this information for me.
    >>>
    >>> The Seagate article seems to imply that if I have XP Pro or Home fully up
    >>> to date then this capacity issue will not apply.
    >>>
    >>> However, you kindly pointed out the chipset on the laptop, which is
    >>> mentioned as having an Intel Application Accelerator v2.3 update
    >>> available as an alternative way of addressing the issue. Not sure
    >>> whether this means I should try to obtain that as well as being up to
    >>> date with XP?
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> The GX270 as I recall looking inside has 40gig IDE drive and a space for
    >>> a SATA. So I was hoping a swap would be quite straight forward aside
    >>> from the alleged capacity issue?, but I have just read on another forum
    >>> that to image a drive it needs to be IDE to IDE or SATA to SATA. So if I
    >>> image my 40 gig drive onto a bigger SATA drive it wouldn't work. Is this
    >>> true. It seems the more I look into this the more caveats I find!
    >>>
    >>> Anyhow, I can't thank you enough for taking so much trouble over your
    >>> reply.
    >>>
    >>> Cheers,
    >>> S

    >> For the GX270, that would depend to some extent on the modes supported
    >> in the BIOS, for the ICH5 Southbridge SATA and IDE ports.
    >>
    >> Intel has a mode called "Compatible", and that makes a SATA
    >> drive look identical to an IDE drive. Compatible allows the usage
    >> of four of the potential six spots for drives. Your Dell may not
    >> have implemented all six anyway, and only provided four places
    >> for drives. If such is the case, the Compatible setting
    >> may be available to you, and not upset anything. It might even
    >> already be in Compatible mode, or not even bother to mention
    >> it is using Compatible mode all the time. If the motherboard
    >> has room to plug in six drives, then the settings in the BIOS
    >> should be a bit more complicated.
    >>
    >> The second mode you can get on ICH5, is "Native". That moves the
    >> interface for the drive, into the PCI address space. A slightly
    >> different driver is used, but if you're already running a
    >> recent Service Pack for WinXP, you might already be all set there.
    >>
    >> The beauty about trying these things, is "cloning" doesn't hurt
    >> anything. You copy the entire old drive, to the new one. Disconnect
    >> the old drive, for the boot attempt, then try to boot with the new
    >> drive. If you got it wrong somehow, you can always go back to the
    >> original drive, then ask around for suggestions. So it's not
    >> like the attempt is destructive or anything. It's just like
    >> making a backup.
    >>
    >> Intel chipsets can have other modes, with names like "AHCI" or
    >> "RAID". Those may require pressing F6 and installing a driver
    >> on a floppy, at the beginning of the Windows install. There are
    >> sometimes recipes, for getting around the installation issue in
    >> that case, but the procedures can be pretty complicated. As
    >> far as I know, you shouldn't need any of that complication,
    >> for your currently planned cloning attempts.
    >>
    >> In any case, as long as you can find an easy way to do the drive
    >> copying, you should be all set. There has got to be at least
    >> one USB to SATA/IDE adapter that isn't a dud, out there.
    >>
    >> I can't promise how the Inspiron BIOS is going to behave,
    >> if you connect a much larger drive. If you don't really need
    >> the space that badly, I'd just go with a 120GB sized one
    >> (to stay under 137G8). Actually, the drive with the best
    >> ratings, in the IDE category of 2.5" drives on Newegg, is
    >> an 80GB one (5400 RPM). $50.
    >>
    >> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136129
    >>
    >> Paul

    >
    > Right,
    >
    > I've got myself a WD 80gig drive for the laptop as you recommended, and got
    > a usb enclosure to go with it.
    > From the thread on fitting new drives, I got the address for the WD version
    > of Acronis, and downloaded it, but it won't complete its install unless I
    > have a WD drive fitted! The drive only shows as a generic USB drive in
    > device manager, so I guess that is why WD think I don't have a WD drive
    > fitted. Have I been sold a fake drive (It only shows as 76gig), or is this
    > just WD being silly in assuming people will never install via usb?
    >
    > Cheers,
    >
    > S


    OK, I took a bit of time to do some testing. I backed up my C: drive, tested
    the WDC software, then restored C: so there is no junk left over.

    First, I don't really find the entries in Device Manager to be that helpful.

    I used a copy of Everest (storage entries), to try to get more info about
    the controller on my USB to IDE enclosure. You can get a copy of the free
    version of Everest here. Lavalys is still selling this program, and the
    modern version has a lot more stuff in it, than this version does. But
    this version is free.

    http://majorgeeks.com/download4181.html

    *******

    In Device Manager, I have one entry

    USB Mass Storage Device
    driver = usbstor.sys

    In Everest, I see an entry in the storage section, for

    Cypress AT2LP RC42 (that is a USB to IDE chip)
    VID=04b4 PID=6830 Rev=0420

    You can gets VID and PID values for USB devices here.
    This allows you to double check the info. This list is
    informally maintained, and there is no guarantee that
    all USB devices ever made, are listed here. The official
    list is kept private.

    http://www.linux-usb.org/usb.ids

    6830 CY7C68300A EZ-USB AT2 USB 2.0 to ATA/ATAPI

    Now, under the "Disk Drives" section of my Device Manager, I have
    this, and I suspect this is critical to my success.

    WDC AC24 300L USB Device

    The hard drive is actually a AC24300 4.3GB IDE hard drive from 1999.
    It's the only WDC drive I own.

    That is my hardware summary. The important part seems to be, my
    USB to IDE controller is able to make a "Disk Drives" entry with
    the word "WDC" in it appear. I don't know if your situation is
    different or not.

    *******

    Now the software tests.

    The Acronis for my drive, is the file "tih_s_e.exe" size 126,924,016 bytes.

    http://download.wdc.com/atiwd/tih_s_e.exe

    First, I tried to install it, with the USB-IDE enclosure turned off.
    The installer refused, saying I had no Western Digital drive.

    I switched on the drive, and this time, the Acronis installer
    agreed to install the software. I didn't actually test the software,
    because I believe you were getting stuck at the installation stage,
    and that was enough testing for me. After a reboot, I was able to
    start the Acronis program without a problem. But there didn't appear
    to be anything worth testing in there, so I quit the program. At
    least the program opened OK.

    Next, I tested the DataLifeGuard software for Windows.

    http://download.wdc.com/windlg/windlg_121.zip

    That worked fine, and could see the USB based WDC drive. I
    did a Quick Test (which scanned the entire drive in fact) and
    my drive passed. It's only a 4.3GB drive, so no big deal.

    Next, I tried the DataLifeGuard MSDOS version. Now, it isn't likely
    that DOS would have a USB driver, and the WDC floppy didn't let me down.

    http://support.wdc.com/download/dlg/DlgDiagv504f.zip

    The floppy installed OK. I booted with the floppy, but the
    executable on the floppy could not see a WDC drive.

    Next, I booted the computer with my all-powerful Win98 prepared
    MSDOS floppy. That floppy could actually read the 4GB FAT32 partition
    on the USB based drive. So, seeing as I could see the files on the
    drive, I tried running the executable on the other floppy (the floppy
    built purely via the WDC download). The executable could be run from
    the A:/ prompt no problem, but it still refused to see the drive.
    It could be, the software was looking for I/O space IDE
    interfaces, which were common on older motherboards. So the
    test result was not particularly surprising. The software
    appears to be produced by Knoll Ontrack, and WDC didn't write it.

    So those are my results. The most important result, is my USB to
    IDE enclosure with Cypress chip, was able to convince the Acronis
    installer to work.

    Try Everest, and see if the name of your drive is revealed or not.
    You may also be able to determine the controller chip name and part
    number.

    HTH,
    Paul
     
  12. spamlet

    spamlet Flightless Bird

    "Paul" <nospam@needed.com> wrote in message
    news:hucsue$8ec$1@speranza.aioe.org...
    > spamlet wrote:
    >> "Paul" <nospam@needed.com> wrote in message
    >> news:htsduf$uk0$1@speranza.aioe.org...
    >>> spamlet wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>
    >>>> Paul this is an amazing response and I thank you very much for finding
    >>>> all this information for me.
    >>>>
    >>>> The Seagate article seems to imply that if I have XP Pro or Home fully
    >>>> up to date then this capacity issue will not apply.
    >>>>
    >>>> However, you kindly pointed out the chipset on the laptop, which is
    >>>> mentioned as having an Intel Application Accelerator v2.3 update
    >>>> available as an alternative way of addressing the issue. Not sure
    >>>> whether this means I should try to obtain that as well as being up to
    >>>> date with XP?
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> The GX270 as I recall looking inside has 40gig IDE drive and a space
    >>>> for a SATA. So I was hoping a swap would be quite straight forward
    >>>> aside from the alleged capacity issue?, but I have just read on another
    >>>> forum that to image a drive it needs to be IDE to IDE or SATA to SATA.
    >>>> So if I image my 40 gig drive onto a bigger SATA drive it wouldn't
    >>>> work. Is this true. It seems the more I look into this the more
    >>>> caveats I find!
    >>>>
    >>>> Anyhow, I can't thank you enough for taking so much trouble over your
    >>>> reply.
    >>>>
    >>>> Cheers,
    >>>> S
    >>> For the GX270, that would depend to some extent on the modes supported
    >>> in the BIOS, for the ICH5 Southbridge SATA and IDE ports.
    >>>
    >>> Intel has a mode called "Compatible", and that makes a SATA
    >>> drive look identical to an IDE drive. Compatible allows the usage
    >>> of four of the potential six spots for drives. Your Dell may not
    >>> have implemented all six anyway, and only provided four places
    >>> for drives. If such is the case, the Compatible setting
    >>> may be available to you, and not upset anything. It might even
    >>> already be in Compatible mode, or not even bother to mention
    >>> it is using Compatible mode all the time. If the motherboard
    >>> has room to plug in six drives, then the settings in the BIOS
    >>> should be a bit more complicated.
    >>>
    >>> The second mode you can get on ICH5, is "Native". That moves the
    >>> interface for the drive, into the PCI address space. A slightly
    >>> different driver is used, but if you're already running a
    >>> recent Service Pack for WinXP, you might already be all set there.
    >>>
    >>> The beauty about trying these things, is "cloning" doesn't hurt
    >>> anything. You copy the entire old drive, to the new one. Disconnect
    >>> the old drive, for the boot attempt, then try to boot with the new
    >>> drive. If you got it wrong somehow, you can always go back to the
    >>> original drive, then ask around for suggestions. So it's not
    >>> like the attempt is destructive or anything. It's just like
    >>> making a backup.
    >>>
    >>> Intel chipsets can have other modes, with names like "AHCI" or
    >>> "RAID". Those may require pressing F6 and installing a driver
    >>> on a floppy, at the beginning of the Windows install. There are
    >>> sometimes recipes, for getting around the installation issue in
    >>> that case, but the procedures can be pretty complicated. As
    >>> far as I know, you shouldn't need any of that complication,
    >>> for your currently planned cloning attempts.
    >>>
    >>> In any case, as long as you can find an easy way to do the drive
    >>> copying, you should be all set. There has got to be at least
    >>> one USB to SATA/IDE adapter that isn't a dud, out there.
    >>>
    >>> I can't promise how the Inspiron BIOS is going to behave,
    >>> if you connect a much larger drive. If you don't really need
    >>> the space that badly, I'd just go with a 120GB sized one
    >>> (to stay under 137G8). Actually, the drive with the best
    >>> ratings, in the IDE category of 2.5" drives on Newegg, is
    >>> an 80GB one (5400 RPM). $50.
    >>>
    >>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136129
    >>>
    >>> Paul

    >>
    >> Right,
    >>
    >> I've got myself a WD 80gig drive for the laptop as you recommended, and
    >> got a usb enclosure to go with it.
    >> From the thread on fitting new drives, I got the address for the WD
    >> version of Acronis, and downloaded it, but it won't complete its install
    >> unless I have a WD drive fitted! The drive only shows as a generic USB
    >> drive in device manager, so I guess that is why WD think I don't have a
    >> WD drive fitted. Have I been sold a fake drive (It only shows as 76gig),
    >> or is this just WD being silly in assuming people will never install via
    >> usb?
    >>
    >> Cheers,
    >>
    >> S

    >
    > OK, I took a bit of time to do some testing. I backed up my C: drive,
    > tested
    > the WDC software, then restored C: so there is no junk left over.
    >
    > First, I don't really find the entries in Device Manager to be that
    > helpful.
    >
    > I used a copy of Everest (storage entries), to try to get more info about
    > the controller on my USB to IDE enclosure. You can get a copy of the free
    > version of Everest here. Lavalys is still selling this program, and the
    > modern version has a lot more stuff in it, than this version does. But
    > this version is free.
    >
    > http://majorgeeks.com/download4181.html
    >
    > *******
    >
    > In Device Manager, I have one entry
    >
    > USB Mass Storage Device
    > driver = usbstor.sys
    >
    > In Everest, I see an entry in the storage section, for
    >
    > Cypress AT2LP RC42 (that is a USB to IDE chip)
    > VID=04b4 PID=6830 Rev=0420
    >
    > You can gets VID and PID values for USB devices here.
    > This allows you to double check the info. This list is
    > informally maintained, and there is no guarantee that
    > all USB devices ever made, are listed here. The official
    > list is kept private.
    >
    > http://www.linux-usb.org/usb.ids
    >
    > 6830 CY7C68300A EZ-USB AT2 USB 2.0 to ATA/ATAPI
    >
    > Now, under the "Disk Drives" section of my Device Manager, I have
    > this, and I suspect this is critical to my success.
    >
    > WDC AC24 300L USB Device
    >
    > The hard drive is actually a AC24300 4.3GB IDE hard drive from 1999.
    > It's the only WDC drive I own.
    >
    > That is my hardware summary. The important part seems to be, my
    > USB to IDE controller is able to make a "Disk Drives" entry with
    > the word "WDC" in it appear. I don't know if your situation is
    > different or not.
    >
    > *******
    >
    > Now the software tests.
    >
    > The Acronis for my drive, is the file "tih_s_e.exe" size 126,924,016
    > bytes.
    >
    > http://download.wdc.com/atiwd/tih_s_e.exe
    >
    > First, I tried to install it, with the USB-IDE enclosure turned off.
    > The installer refused, saying I had no Western Digital drive.
    >
    > I switched on the drive, and this time, the Acronis installer
    > agreed to install the software. I didn't actually test the software,
    > because I believe you were getting stuck at the installation stage,
    > and that was enough testing for me. After a reboot, I was able to
    > start the Acronis program without a problem. But there didn't appear
    > to be anything worth testing in there, so I quit the program. At
    > least the program opened OK.
    >
    > Next, I tested the DataLifeGuard software for Windows.
    >
    > http://download.wdc.com/windlg/windlg_121.zip
    >
    > That worked fine, and could see the USB based WDC drive. I
    > did a Quick Test (which scanned the entire drive in fact) and
    > my drive passed. It's only a 4.3GB drive, so no big deal.
    >
    > Next, I tried the DataLifeGuard MSDOS version. Now, it isn't likely
    > that DOS would have a USB driver, and the WDC floppy didn't let me down.
    >
    > http://support.wdc.com/download/dlg/DlgDiagv504f.zip
    >
    > The floppy installed OK. I booted with the floppy, but the
    > executable on the floppy could not see a WDC drive.
    >
    > Next, I booted the computer with my all-powerful Win98 prepared
    > MSDOS floppy. That floppy could actually read the 4GB FAT32 partition
    > on the USB based drive. So, seeing as I could see the files on the
    > drive, I tried running the executable on the other floppy (the floppy
    > built purely via the WDC download). The executable could be run from
    > the A:/ prompt no problem, but it still refused to see the drive.
    > It could be, the software was looking for I/O space IDE
    > interfaces, which were common on older motherboards. So the
    > test result was not particularly surprising. The software
    > appears to be produced by Knoll Ontrack, and WDC didn't write it.
    >
    > So those are my results. The most important result, is my USB to
    > IDE enclosure with Cypress chip, was able to convince the Acronis
    > installer to work.
    >
    > Try Everest, and see if the name of your drive is revealed or not.
    > You may also be able to determine the controller chip name and part
    > number.
    >
    > HTH,
    > Paul


    Thanks for the detailed reply again Paul. We seem to have hit on solutions
    via different routes, probably mostly as my laptop is a bit old and rickety!

    As I said, I got my new WD drive in a nice Sumvision external enclosure
    which came very neatly packaged with all the assembly kit even down to
    screwdriver and spare screws! However the drive wasn't recognised as WD in
    the usb housing, so the WD prog would not install however I powered up and
    tweaked etc.

    So I downloaded the free/trial version of Acronis and set to work with that.
    It took almost an hour to download - which should have had me suspicious -
    but once down it seemed to install allright.

    Still couldn't see the externally mounted drive in explorer but after I
    initialised it and gave it a couple of basic partitions it then showed up.
    Next I tried to clone from the old internal drive to the new one in the
    enclosure, and it seemed to be doing it until it got to the reboot stage,
    whereupon the laptop went into black screen mode with a very slow flashing
    of the drive light. I waited for an hour or two wondering whether it was
    doing anything (checkdisc takes ages on this so I am used to waiting), but
    in the end I had a googling via another laptop and found that Acronis advise
    *putting the new drive in the laptop first*, and then cloning in from the
    original moved to the external enclosure (NOW they tell me!).

    So turn off and try to make a bootable disc, only to find laptop has only a
    cd-rom and can't write to discs!
    Next then, download second copy of TI 'free' to newer laptop and burn a boot
    disc there...
    Boot disc to old laptop, and swap drives over.
    Boot disc boots old laptop BUT image is too big for screen and I cannot get
    at the 'Proceed'/'Cancel buttons. Can't actually see much because whole
    screen is covered in diagonal grey dashed lines, and flickering!
    After many hours of random clicking and guessing where the proceed button
    might be, I finally must have hit something around 3am that was the right
    button, and off it started, only to tell me a few minutes later that I was
    attempting to do something that was not allowed with the free version!!!

    Give up for night screaming and tearing out hair...

    Next day, go to pc, and BUY full version of Acronis TI 2010, and make boot
    disc. This time it says 'Full Version'...
    Slap this into old laptop and rather alarmingly, first boot fails with an
    error code, but second go Acronis boots.
    Still alarmingly screen is still flickering and covered in diagonal grey
    dashed lines and is still too big too see the proceed button!
    This time I can't even drag to resize either!
    However, some vague dos memory kicked in and I tried some key combinations
    and found that wonder of wonders Alt 'P' was the key combination for
    'Proceed' and proceed it at last did. It said '2hrs remaining' for about 4
    1/2 hours just to copy 16gig, but there seemed to be only one error.
    Possibly had I waited this long in the first place, when I had that black
    screen it might have worked as well but who can wait for a black screen?

    Anyhow, rebooted, and it now feels marvellous, the new drive is quiet as a
    mouse and it is a great relief not to have infernal clicking going on all
    the time from the HDD. Oddly enough even the screen seems brighter and
    sharper, and everything is loading and unloading much more quickly.

    Virgin mail has packed up again but what the hell it's nice to be up to
    speed on the laptop at last, so many thanks for all your advice.

    I still have the PC drive to update, but surely that will be a doddle
    compared with the above (Won't it?)!

    I'll keep you posted,
    Cheers,
    S
     
  13. Paul

    Paul Flightless Bird

    spamlet wrote:

    >
    > Give up for night screaming and tearing out hair...
    >


    LOL :)

    Yes, this is the way PCs work.

    It's why all computer users eventually end up bald.

    Paul
     
  14. Spamlet

    Spamlet Flightless Bird

    "Paul" <nospam@needed.com> wrote in message
    news:huedgp$ke$1@speranza.aioe.org...
    > spamlet wrote:
    >
    >>
    >> Give up for night screaming and tearing out hair...
    >>

    >
    > LOL :)
    >
    > Yes, this is the way PCs work.
    >
    > It's why all computer users eventually end up bald.


    Paul



    Now I think I've just about finished swapping the 40 gig eide drive on our
    Dell Optiplex 270 for a WD 500gig one.

    In this case I used a USB-Sata adaptor, and True Image could this time see
    the drive externally, even though it was only visible in disc management. I
    didn't need to initialise it, and there wasn't a diagnostics partition to
    bother about.

    The clone to the external drive proceeded properly and at the reboot stage
    it had a blue graphical screen instead of the scary black one I got when I
    tried it that way round on the laptop.

    On the other hand, I got a bit of a shock when I swapped the drives over and
    tried to boot: 'no disc'.
    Turned out one had to go into the bios and turn off the eide settings and on
    the sata.
    Then there was still a glitch when it said the registry was corrupted... but
    it found a back up version.
    Then Avast and Spybot wouldn't work: had to be reinstalled.
    Then MS did a massive update...

    And now it's working. :)

    It's not quite as fast as I was hoping for after the experience with the
    laptop, and this WD drive seems to be quite a bit louder in its motor noise
    than I was expecting too: they must put better ones in the 'MyBook'
    enclosures (though, thinking about it, I've got them running on a coaster
    with bubble wrap under it...) But it feels good to see so much free space
    and not to have to worry about seizing things up with an ill thought out
    download.

    Thanks for your help once again.

    S
     

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