Repairier's duty of care re data.

[Anteaus]

One for the the repair-shop guys...

I don't as a rule do home PCs, but right now I've got an awkward customer
who insists that I give him a written quote to repair his computer before he
will discuss any options.

The computer has some quite severe disk corruption, and as it stands this
could be software-related, or it could be a failing disk. Or maybe, but less
likely, the mobo.

Since it has over 50GB of data on it (mostly looking like pirated junk) I've
pointed-out that I need to format the disk for a full read/write test before
I can determine if the disk needs replacing. Thus I cannot offer any fixed
quote at this stage.

With this in mind, I asked him if he has a backup of his data.

He refuses to answer the question.

Ok, this is an exceptional case of obstructiveness, but it highlights an
issue faced by all repairers - What should be done when the data on a
computer needs to be wiped?

If the owner gives a concise yes or no then at least that is clear. But, if
they won't give a definite answer, what is the legal position with regard to
liability for the data? Do we have a duty of care to preserve (what remains
of) it, or not?

 

[Tom Willett]

Under the circumstances, and his refusal to cooperate fully, I would simply
tell him you'd prefer if he took his business elsewhere.

"Anteaus" <Anteaus@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:0BA2D9F2-871F-4EE3-B07A-F95D292F398A@microsoft.com...
: One for the the repair-shop guys...
:
: I don't as a rule do home PCs, but right now I've got an awkward customer
: who insists that I give him a written quote to repair his computer before
he
: will discuss any options.
:
: The computer has some quite severe disk corruption, and as it stands this
: could be software-related, or it could be a failing disk. Or maybe, but
less
: likely, the mobo.
:
: Since it has over 50GB of data on it (mostly looking like pirated junk)
I've
: pointed-out that I need to format the disk for a full read/write test
before
: I can determine if the disk needs replacing. Thus I cannot offer any fixed
: quote at this stage.
:
: With this in mind, I asked him if he has a backup of his data.
:
: He refuses to answer the question.
:
: Ok, this is an exceptional case of obstructiveness, but it highlights an
: issue faced by all repairers - What should be done when the data on a
: computer needs to be wiped?
:
: If the owner gives a concise yes or no then at least that is clear. But,
if
: they won't give a definite answer, what is the legal position with regard
to
: liability for the data? Do we have a duty of care to preserve (what
remains
: of) it, or not?
:
:

 

[Pegasus [MVP]]

"Anteaus" <Anteaus@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:0BA2D9F2-871F-4EE3-B07A-F95D292F398A@microsoft.com...
> One for the the repair-shop guys...
>
> I don't as a rule do home PCs, but right now I've got an awkward customer
> who insists that I give him a written quote to repair his computer before
> he
> will discuss any options.
>
> The computer has some quite severe disk corruption, and as it stands this
> could be software-related, or it could be a failing disk. Or maybe, but
> less
> likely, the mobo.
>
> Since it has over 50GB of data on it (mostly looking like pirated junk)
> I've
> pointed-out that I need to format the disk for a full read/write test
> before
> I can determine if the disk needs replacing. Thus I cannot offer any fixed
> quote at this stage.
>
> With this in mind, I asked him if he has a backup of his data.
>
> He refuses to answer the question.
>
> Ok, this is an exceptional case of obstructiveness, but it highlights an
> issue faced by all repairers - What should be done when the data on a
> computer needs to be wiped?
>
> If the owner gives a concise yes or no then at least that is clear. But,
> if
> they won't give a definite answer, what is the legal position with regard
> to
> liability for the data? Do we have a duty of care to preserve (what
> remains
> of) it, or not?
>

Include words such as "By accepting this quotation, the customer agrees that
XYZ Enterprises may, at its discretion, format the all partitions on all
hard disks installed in the client's computer and that the customer is
solely responsible for backing up his data and his software before leaving
his computer in the repairer's care".

The point is: Even if the client is cooperative you can get yourself into a
terrible situation. Assume that you create an image of a client's disk.
After swapping disks, you restore the data from the image, only to be
accused that you lost a few dozen irreplaceable files. Your claim that you
created a fair image wouldn't get you anywhere: The client could easily
claim that you must have deleted some files prior to creating the image. The
name of the game is: Take all care but accept no responsibility.

 

[Leythos]

In article <0BA2D9F2-871F-4EE3-B07A-F95D292F398A@microsoft.com>,
Anteaus@discussions.microsoft.com says...
> Ok, this is an exceptional case of obstructiveness, but it highlights an
> issue faced by all repairers - What should be done when the data on a
> computer needs to be wiped?
>

Once in a while we do residential computers for our corporate clients,
it works like this:

We agree to backup all data, that we find, in reasonable effort, and do
no guarantee that all user data will be restorable or that it will all
be backed-up. We also detail how any corruption or malware can render
data unusable and could also corrupt the backup process, rendering all
data on the backup unreadable or useless.

We have a standard document that details the issues, liability, work
type, etc... Once they sign it all sides are covered properly.

The customer pays for all time, backup, repair, reinstall, etc...

--
You can't trust your best friends, your five senses, only the little
voice inside you that most civilians don't even hear -- Listen to that.
Trust yourself.
spam999free@rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)

 

[Paul]

Anteaus wrote:
> One for the the repair-shop guys...
>
> I don't as a rule do home PCs, but right now I've got an awkward customer
> who insists that I give him a written quote to repair his computer before he
> will discuss any options.
>
> The computer has some quite severe disk corruption, and as it stands this
> could be software-related, or it could be a failing disk. Or maybe, but less
> likely, the mobo.
>
> Since it has over 50GB of data on it (mostly looking like pirated junk) I've
> pointed-out that I need to format the disk for a full read/write test before
> I can determine if the disk needs replacing. Thus I cannot offer any fixed
> quote at this stage.
>
> With this in mind, I asked him if he has a backup of his data.
>
> He refuses to answer the question.
>
> Ok, this is an exceptional case of obstructiveness, but it highlights an
> issue faced by all repairers - What should be done when the data on a
> computer needs to be wiped?
>
> If the owner gives a concise yes or no then at least that is clear. But, if
> they won't give a definite answer, what is the legal position with regard to
> liability for the data? Do we have a duty of care to preserve (what remains
> of) it, or not?
>

You don't *have* to do writes to the drive, to test it. Seatools for DOS
is a read-only test, for example. You can fail a hard drive, just
based on SMART statistics, number of "pending" sectors outstanding and
so on. A drive doesn't need to be completely failed, to be considered a
candidate for replacement. A few lead indicators, can tell you whether
the thing stinks or not.

You can test his motherboard, drive cable, and power supply, using your
own drive, and without endangering his drive.

If you want some insulation from a difficult customer, offer to copy the
data to a brand new disk drive, before attempting any repairs to the data.
They'll end up, with their original drive, in its original condition. If
they need their data, they can always send that drive to a data recovery
company etc. By you working on a copy, there is never any question
as to whether you've been "monkeying" with their data. You've only
worked on the copy of the data, and not the original drive. You then
have some isolation between you and the customer. You can tell them
the old drive can be used for backups, if it is in relatively good shape.

The first step in copying his data, is to do a surface scan of the disk.
Something like HDTune can scan the disk, and tell you whether any sectors
are reporting CRC errors. Based on the results, you can use a different
method for copying the data, if errored sectors are present. Doing
a sector by sector copy, with "dd" or the like, is a gentle way of copying
data from one drive to another, without a lot of random head movement.

http://www.cgsecurity.org/wiki/Damaged_Hard_Disk

By throwing a brand new drive into the repair bill, that should raise the
price enough, he'll go away With the new drive as an intermediate step,
maybe you can establish a more precise repair estimate. There is still
the possibility of a bad motherboard, drive cable, power supply, so it
isn't possible to set the price "in stone".

There are plenty of horror stories about mom&pop computer stores erasing
customer data ("level and reload"), so it would not be out of the ordinary
for the "geek squad" to ruin customer data.

It is a lot like the automotive industry. I took my car in for an oil
change, about a month ago. The agreement was to do an oil change. Later,
when I go to check on the status of the oil change (a "while u wait"),
the counter help says "we'll having trouble doing a load test on your
alternator". So "monkeying" with stuff, is a normal activity for the
service industry

Paul

 

[db]

it should be your responsibility
to make a back up of the data
for your protection.

the backup should be no charge
because you will need to revert
the system back to it's original
state if your analysis proves faulty
or the customer is dissatisfied with
your work.

the backup will also serve as a
method to restore the customers
personal files if you decide to
wipe the disk and install a new
o.s.

if the customer wants the back
up disks you created, then sell
them back to him but make a
copy for your protection.

--

db·´¯`·...¸><)))º>
DatabaseBen, Retired Professional
- Systems Analyst
- Database Developer
- Accountancy
- Veteran of the Armed Forces
- Microsoft Partner
- @hotmail.com
~~~~~~~~~~"share the nirvana" - dbZen

>
>

"Anteaus" <Anteaus@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message news:0BA2D9F2-871F-4EE3-B07A-F95D292F398A@microsoft.com...
> One for the the repair-shop guys...
>
> I don't as a rule do home PCs, but right now I've got an awkward customer
> who insists that I give him a written quote to repair his computer before he
> will discuss any options.
>
> The computer has some quite severe disk corruption, and as it stands this
> could be software-related, or it could be a failing disk. Or maybe, but less
> likely, the mobo.
>
> Since it has over 50GB of data on it (mostly looking like pirated junk) I've
> pointed-out that I need to format the disk for a full read/write test before
> I can determine if the disk needs replacing. Thus I cannot offer any fixed
> quote at this stage.
>
> With this in mind, I asked him if he has a backup of his data.
>
> He refuses to answer the question.
>
> Ok, this is an exceptional case of obstructiveness, but it highlights an
> issue faced by all repairers - What should be done when the data on a
> computer needs to be wiped?
>
> If the owner gives a concise yes or no then at least that is clear. But, if
> they won't give a definite answer, what is the legal position with regard to
> liability for the data? Do we have a duty of care to preserve (what remains
> of) it, or not?
>
>

 

[db]

incidentally, if you choose
to wipe the disk and install
your copy of the o.s.

then be sure that you have
the customers product key
before you do.

you will need to replace your
product key with the customer's
before releasing the system
back.

if the customer does not have
a product key,

then I wouldn't install an o.s.
until the customer obtains
a license.

--

db·´¯`·...¸><)))º>
DatabaseBen, Retired Professional
- Systems Analyst
- Database Developer
- Accountancy
- Veteran of the Armed Forces
- Microsoft Partner
- @hotmail.com
~~~~~~~~~~"share the nirvana" - dbZen

>
>

"db" <databaseben at hotmail dot com> wrote in message news:ACEEB395-EF9B-4674-BEEE-A0A14B4844A1@microsoft.com...
> it should be your responsibility
> to make a back up of the data
> for your protection.
>
> the backup should be no charge
> because you will need to revert
> the system back to it's original
> state if your analysis proves faulty
> or the customer is dissatisfied with
> your work.
>
> the backup will also serve as a
> method to restore the customers
> personal files if you decide to
> wipe the disk and install a new
> o.s.
>
> if the customer wants the back
> up disks you created, then sell
> them back to him but make a
> copy for your protection.
>
> --
>
> db·´¯`·...¸><)))º>
> DatabaseBen, Retired Professional
> - Systems Analyst
> - Database Developer
> - Accountancy
> - Veteran of the Armed Forces
> - Microsoft Partner
> - @hotmail.com
> ~~~~~~~~~~"share the nirvana" - dbZen
>
>>
>>
>
> "Anteaus" <Anteaus@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message news:0BA2D9F2-871F-4EE3-B07A-F95D292F398A@microsoft.com...
>> One for the the repair-shop guys...
>>
>> I don't as a rule do home PCs, but right now I've got an awkward customer
>> who insists that I give him a written quote to repair his computer before he
>> will discuss any options.
>>
>> The computer has some quite severe disk corruption, and as it stands this
>> could be software-related, or it could be a failing disk. Or maybe, but less
>> likely, the mobo.
>>
>> Since it has over 50GB of data on it (mostly looking like pirated junk) I've
>> pointed-out that I need to format the disk for a full read/write test before
>> I can determine if the disk needs replacing. Thus I cannot offer any fixed
>> quote at this stage.
>>
>> With this in mind, I asked him if he has a backup of his data.
>>
>> He refuses to answer the question.
>>
>> Ok, this is an exceptional case of obstructiveness, but it highlights an
>> issue faced by all repairers - What should be done when the data on a
>> computer needs to be wiped?
>>
>> If the owner gives a concise yes or no then at least that is clear. But, if
>> they won't give a definite answer, what is the legal position with regard to
>> liability for the data? Do we have a duty of care to preserve (what remains
>> of) it, or not?
>>
>>

 

[Leythos]

In article <ACEEB395-EF9B-4674-BEEE-A0A14B4844A1@microsoft.com>, "db"
says...
>
> it should be your responsibility
> to make a back up of the data
> for your protection.

You're nuts - the backup is the customers responsibility, even if you do
it.

> the backup should be no charge
> because you will need to revert
> the system back to it's original
> state if your analysis proves faulty
> or the customer is dissatisfied with
> your work.

A backup of data can take hours and each customer can take different
amounts of time and storage space. To eat that cost shows that you have
never run a business and don't understand business at all.

> the backup will also serve as a
> method to restore the customers
> personal files if you decide to
> wipe the disk and install a new
> o.s.

I think everyone already knows the above.

> if the customer wants the back
> up disks you created, then sell
> them back to him but make a
> copy for your protection.

Wrong, if you make a backup you RESTORE the data, time cost to the
customer, and you wipe your media or charge the customer for the cost of
the media, as any business would properly do.

In most cases a tech will bring a portable drive to do backups with, the
drive belongs to the tech/company and will not be given to the customer
since it's used and is company/tech property.

It's completely insane to think that a customer should not have to pay
for any part of the cleaning and restore process, and that includes
backup and recovery of the customers data.

--
You can't trust your best friends, your five senses, only the little
voice inside you that most civilians don't even hear -- Listen to that.
Trust yourself.
spam999free@rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)

 

[sgopus]

I concur, no sense in dealing with people who want it all their way first.
the old adage the customer is always correct is a good one, however we have
the choice of whom we choose to allow to be our customer. I'd dump this one.

"Tom Willett" wrote:

> Under the circumstances, and his refusal to cooperate fully, I would simply
> tell him you'd prefer if he took his business elsewhere.
>
> "Anteaus" <Anteaus@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:0BA2D9F2-871F-4EE3-B07A-F95D292F398A@microsoft.com...
> : One for the the repair-shop guys...
> :
> : I don't as a rule do home PCs, but right now I've got an awkward customer
> : who insists that I give him a written quote to repair his computer before
> he
> : will discuss any options.
> :
> : The computer has some quite severe disk corruption, and as it stands this
> : could be software-related, or it could be a failing disk. Or maybe, but
> less
> : likely, the mobo.
> :
> : Since it has over 50GB of data on it (mostly looking like pirated junk)
> I've
> : pointed-out that I need to format the disk for a full read/write test
> before
> : I can determine if the disk needs replacing. Thus I cannot offer any fixed
> : quote at this stage.
> :
> : With this in mind, I asked him if he has a backup of his data.
> :
> : He refuses to answer the question.
> :
> : Ok, this is an exceptional case of obstructiveness, but it highlights an
> : issue faced by all repairers - What should be done when the data on a
> : computer needs to be wiped?
> :
> : If the owner gives a concise yes or no then at least that is clear. But,
> if
> : they won't give a definite answer, what is the legal position with regard
> to
> : liability for the data? Do we have a duty of care to preserve (what
> remains
> : of) it, or not?
> :
> :
>
>
> .
>

 

[LD55ZRA]

sgopus wrote:
>

> the old adage the customer is always correct

This adage does not apply in France where Customer is always wrong
and should be taught a lesson!

hth

 

[Anteaus]

Thx for replies.

Think my best option here is to tell the guy to take a running jump. If I
entertain him he will likely be back again, and maybe I don't want that.

Reckon it's the memory between the guy's ears that needs an OS reload
anyway, not the computer.. Unfortunately they don't make CDs for that. <g>

"Leythos" wrote:

> In article <ACEEB395-EF9B-4674-BEEE-A0A14B4844A1@microsoft.com>, "db"
> says...
> >
> > it should be your responsibility
> > to make a back up of the data
> > for your protection.
>
> You're nuts - the backup is the customers responsibility, even if you do
> it.
>
> > the backup should be no charge
> > because you will need to revert
> > the system back to it's original
> > state if your analysis proves faulty
> > or the customer is dissatisfied with
> > your work.
>
> A backup of data can take hours and each customer can take different
> amounts of time and storage space. To eat that cost shows that you have
> never run a business and don't understand business at all.
>
> > the backup will also serve as a
> > method to restore the customers
> > personal files if you decide to
> > wipe the disk and install a new
> > o.s.
>
> I think everyone already knows the above.
>
> > if the customer wants the back
> > up disks you created, then sell
> > them back to him but make a
> > copy for your protection.
>
> Wrong, if you make a backup you RESTORE the data, time cost to the
> customer, and you wipe your media or charge the customer for the cost of
> the media, as any business would properly do.
>
> In most cases a tech will bring a portable drive to do backups with, the
> drive belongs to the tech/company and will not be given to the customer
> since it's used and is company/tech property.
>
> It's completely insane to think that a customer should not have to pay
> for any part of the cleaning and restore process, and that includes
> backup and recovery of the customers data.
>
> --
> You can't trust your best friends, your five senses, only the little
> voice inside you that most civilians don't even hear -- Listen to that.
> Trust yourself.
> spam999free@rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)
> .
>

 

[SC Tom]

"Leythos" <spam999free@rrohio.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.261ed6f32f2c7ad98a24d@us.news.astraweb.com...
> In article <ACEEB395-EF9B-4674-BEEE-A0A14B4844A1@microsoft.com>, "db"
> says...
>>
>> it should be your responsibility
>> to make a back up of the data
>> for your protection.
>
> You're nuts - the backup is the customers responsibility, even if you do
> it.

Whether or not db is nuts or not is beside the point If you send a PC or
notebook back to the manufacturer for repair, the first thing they tell you
is to make a backup of your drive, if possible, since they can't guarantee
against loss of data. If fact, on at least 80% of the ones I've sent back
for warranty repairs, the first thing that was done was a format and
recovery to day one. That's with Dell, Compaq, HP, and Gateway. Local shops
are even higher. So yep, I'd say the backup is the customers responsibility
if he ever wants to see that data again. I always found it amazing the
number of users who DON'T have any disaster recovery plan in place.
--
SC Tom

"Owning a handgun doesn't make you armed
any more than owning a guitar makes you a musician."
Lt. Col. J.D. "Jeff" Cooper, USMC, Ret.

>
>> the backup should be no charge
>> because you will need to revert
>> the system back to it's original
>> state if your analysis proves faulty
>> or the customer is dissatisfied with
>> your work.
>
> A backup of data can take hours and each customer can take different
> amounts of time and storage space. To eat that cost shows that you have
> never run a business and don't understand business at all.
>
>> the backup will also serve as a
>> method to restore the customers
>> personal files if you decide to
>> wipe the disk and install a new
>> o.s.
>
> I think everyone already knows the above.
>
>> if the customer wants the back
>> up disks you created, then sell
>> them back to him but make a
>> copy for your protection.
>
> Wrong, if you make a backup you RESTORE the data, time cost to the
> customer, and you wipe your media or charge the customer for the cost of
> the media, as any business would properly do.
>
> In most cases a tech will bring a portable drive to do backups with, the
> drive belongs to the tech/company and will not be given to the customer
> since it's used and is company/tech property.
>
> It's completely insane to think that a customer should not have to pay
> for any part of the cleaning and restore process, and that includes
> backup and recovery of the customers data.
>
> --
> You can't trust your best friends, your five senses, only the little
> voice inside you that most civilians don't even hear -- Listen to that.
> Trust yourself.
> spam999free@rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)

 

[Billns]

On 4/1/2010 115 PM, Anteaus wrote:
> Thx for replies.
>
> Think my best option here is to tell the guy to take a running jump. If I
> entertain him he will likely be back again, and maybe I don't want that.
>
> Reckon it's the memory between the guy's ears that needs an OS reload
> anyway, not the computer.. Unfortunately they don't make CDs for that.<g>
>

I think you've nailed the situation on both counts. However, I'd just
say "No, I cannot work on your computer under these circumstances."
Leave the running jump out of it. <g>

Bill

 

[Twayne]

In news:4BB541AA.79F9EE5C@discussions.microsoft.com,
LD55ZRA <LD55ZRA@discussions.microsoft.com> typed:
> sgopus wrote:
>>
>
>> the old adage the customer is always correct
>
> This adage does not apply in France where Customer is
> always wrong and should be taught a lesson!
>
> hth

Nothing you post ever applies, LD55ZRA. Go morph yourself
again; we don't need you.

 

[Twayne]

1. You should maintain your own drives for when you need to do
data-destructive testing.
2. You should return a system to the customer as it arrived,
unless other plans have been agreed upon in writing. Too many
shops send them back with a different OS and their old COA
numbers don't work.
3. You should have a standard contract to sign detailing what
might of might not happen.
4. Anyone that can't live with your standards and requirements
can always go elsewhere for their service. Your reputation and
results should be able to get customers to come to you.

The guy you've described? Tell him you'd prefer he go
elsewhere and suggest a phone or address. You can refuse
service to anyone for any reason anytime; you're not obligated
to take on a bad customer.
If/when I turn someone down (I haven't yet) I have a
written boilerplate I can give them detailing that I am
allowed to do so and without giving my reasons.
If someone should argue a point of my contract (and that's
happened), he has two options; accept it and sign it, or go
elsewhere. There is nothing in the law that requires me to
take on his business; even if he's a return customer, in the
extreme.
Consistancy is very important; just make sure you treat
everyone the same. And don't be an A-hole; sometimes a
recapitulation for a customer can do your business a lot of
good. Just don't be a sucker.

HTH,

Twayne`
In news:0BA2D9F2-871F-4EE3-B07A-F95D292F398A@microsoft.com,
Anteaus <Anteaus@discussions.microsoft.com> typed:
> One for the the repair-shop guys...
>
> I don't as a rule do home PCs, but right now I've got an
> awkward customer who insists that I give him a written
> quote to repair his computer before he will discuss any
> options.
>
> The computer has some quite severe disk corruption, and as
> it stands this could be software-related, or it could be a
> failing disk. Or maybe, but less likely, the mobo.
>
> Since it has over 50GB of data on it (mostly looking like
> pirated junk) I've pointed-out that I need to format the
> disk for a full read/write test before I can determine if
> the disk needs replacing. Thus I cannot offer any fixed
> quote at this stage.
>
> With this in mind, I asked him if he has a backup of his
> data.
>
> He refuses to answer the question.
>
> Ok, this is an exceptional case of obstructiveness, but it
> highlights an issue faced by all repairers - What should be
> done when the data on a computer needs to be wiped?
>
> If the owner gives a concise yes or no then at least that
> is clear. But, if they won't give a definite answer, what
> is the legal position with regard to liability for the
> data? Do we have a duty of care to preserve (what remains
> of) it, or not?

 

[Twayne]

In news:MPG.261ed6f32f2c7ad98a24d@us.news.astraweb.com,
Leythos <spam999free@rrohio.com> typed:
> In article
> <ACEEB395-EF9B-4674-BEEE-A0A14B4844A1@microsoft.com>, "db"
> says...
>>
>> it should be your responsibility
>> to make a back up of the data
>> for your protection.
>
> You're nuts - the backup is the customers responsibility,
> even if you do it.

Nah, that's unneccessary expense for a task that's practically
automatic and takes little to no expertise. Any charge should
be minimal, and waivable if the customer has their own
backups. It's not right to charge the ignorant for their
ignorance.

>
>> the backup should be no charge
>> because you will need to revert
>> the system back to it's original
>> state if your analysis proves faulty
>> or the customer is dissatisfied with
>> your work.
>
> A backup of data can take hours and each customer can take
> different amounts of time and storage space. To eat that
> cost shows that you have never run a business and don't
> understand business at all.
>
>> the backup will also serve as a
>> method to restore the customers
>> personal files if you decide to
>> wipe the disk and install a new
>> o.s.
>
> I think everyone already knows the above.
>
>> if the customer wants the back
>> up disks you created, then sell
>> them back to him but make a
>> copy for your protection.
>
> Wrong, if you make a backup you RESTORE the data, time cost
> to the customer, and you wipe your media or charge the
> customer for the cost of the media, as any business would
> properly do.
>
> In most cases a tech will bring a portable drive to do
> backups with, the drive belongs to the tech/company and
> will not be given to the customer since it's used and is
> company/tech property.
>
> It's completely insane to think that a customer should not
> have to pay for any part of the cleaning and restore
> process, and that includes backup and recovery of the
> customers data.

 

[Leythos]

In article <usQXQfr0KHA.4412@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl>, nobody@spamcop.net
says...
>
> In news:MPG.261ed6f32f2c7ad98a24d@us.news.astraweb.com,
> Leythos <spam999free@rrohio.com> typed:
> > In article
> > <ACEEB395-EF9B-4674-BEEE-A0A14B4844A1@microsoft.com>, "db"
> > says...
> >>
> >> it should be your responsibility
> >> to make a back up of the data
> >> for your protection.
> >
> > You're nuts - the backup is the customers responsibility,
> > even if you do it.
>
> Nah, that's unneccessary expense for a task that's practically
> automatic and takes little to no expertise. Any charge should
> be minimal, and waivable if the customer has their own
> backups. It's not right to charge the ignorant for their
> ignorance.

You're mistaken - if the customer ALREADY, so as to not delay you (since
your a contractor), then you don't need to make a backup, as long as the
customer agrees that anything since his/her last backup will not be
retained.

No consultant would give their time away free on a normal basis when
working for customers, in general. If a backup takes 1 hour because you
have to search for files, iTunes, other music, Kodak files, etc... then
that's real time you should charge for.

Remember, the reason you're there is because THEY CALLED YOU FOR YOUR
SKILLS TO AID THEM - they should pay for your time, all of it.



--
You can't trust your best friends, your five senses, only the little
voice inside you that most civilians don't even hear -- Listen to that.
Trust yourself.
spam999free@rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)

 

[Twayne]

In news:MPG.261ed6f32f2c7ad98a24d@us.news.astraweb.com,
Leythos <spam999free@rrohio.com> typed:
> In article
> <ACEEB395-EF9B-4674-BEEE-A0A14B4844A1@microsoft.com>, "db"
> says...
>>
>> it should be your responsibility
>> to make a back up of the data
>> for your protection.
>
> You're nuts - the backup is the customers responsibility,
> even if you do it.
>
>> the backup should be no charge
>> because you will need to revert
>> the system back to it's original
>> state if your analysis proves faulty
>> or the customer is dissatisfied with
>> your work.

True. And also to give the machine back running the same OS
and COA number as when it came in.

>
> A backup of data can take hours and each customer can take
> different amounts of time and storage space. To eat that
> cost shows that you have never run a business and don't
> understand business at all.

BS - Only the physical drive with data needs backing up of the
OS.
It takes a minute or so to connect a cable, maybe install
backup support 10 miutes, then a click and forget it. You
don't sit staring at a machine while it backs up; doing so is
double-booking because 99% of people will go do something else
while the backup runs.
Backups aren't time eaters; it's that simple. Being able to
do something else while the backup runs is common sense and if
you aren't doing so, you shouldn't be in business anyway. And
it seldom if ever takes "hours" to do a backup.
Backing up should be free or a very minimal price.
Definitely less than $10; a lot less.
>
>> the backup will also serve as a
>> method to restore the customers
>> personal files if you decide to
>> wipe the disk and install a new
>> o.s.
>> if the customer wants the back
>> up disks you created, then sell
>> them back to him but make a
>> copy for your protection.

Keeping a customer's bootable drive backup is against the
rules and borders on piracy. It's also how you get people's
COA numbers screwed up.

>
> Wrong, if you make a backup you RESTORE the data, time cost
> to the customer, and you wipe your media or charge the
> customer for the cost of the media, as any business would
> properly do.

Backing up data is for the BUSINESS protection, NOT the
customer! It's like any diag-ware you have - it's your own
overhead, not something you specifically charge a customer
for. No one around here charges for doing the backups.
Personally, I back up a machine as soon as I know it's
functional enough to do so. I've also been known to call and
alert the customer to things that may come up as unexpected.
>
> In most cases a tech will bring a portable drive to do
> backups with, the drive belongs to the tech/company and
> will not be given to the customer since it's used and is
> company/tech property.

And thus is a CODB, overhead, whatever you wish to call it.
Using it is no more chargeable than setting up and plugging in
the computer.

>
> It's completely insane to think that a customer should not
> have to pay for any part of the cleaning and restore
> process, and that includes backup and recovery of the
> customers data.

Wow! You even charge for spending a few minutes cleaning out
dust and putting the customer's OS back the way it should be?
Somethings' pretty strange about your methodologies. Or you
know absolutely nothing about how to handle a business.

Twayne

 

[Twayne]

In news:236722B1-FCC6-4335-8DA5-C8BE576A4118@microsoft.com,
Anteaus <Anteaus@discussions.microsoft.com> typed:
> Thx for replies.
>
> Think my best option here is to tell the guy to take a
> running jump. If I entertain him he will likely be back
> again, and maybe I don't want that.

That might result in two things:
1. Getting his respect when he tries some other repair shops,
and compares them to what you offered, and
2. Maybe even some word of mouth business for you; you never
know. I just figure, don't burn bridges, but be firm in your
convictions.

>
> Reckon it's the memory between the guy's ears that needs an
> OS reload anyway, not the computer.. Unfortunately they
> don't make CDs for that. <g>

I'd have to agree with you except the running jump. Politeness
and being strictly factual goes a long ways and how knows; he
might appreciate that someday. Respect goes a long ways, even
with annoying customers or overly exuberant ones too.

HTH,

Twayne`



> "Leythos" wrote:
>
>> In article
>> <ACEEB395-EF9B-4674-BEEE-A0A14B4844A1@microsoft.com>, "db"
>> says...
>>>
>>> it should be your responsibility
>>> to make a back up of the data
>>> for your protection.
>>
>> You're nuts - the backup is the customers responsibility,
>> even if you do it.
>>
>>> the backup should be no charge
>>> because you will need to revert
>>> the system back to it's original
>>> state if your analysis proves faulty
>>> or the customer is dissatisfied with
>>> your work.
>>
>> A backup of data can take hours and each customer can take
>> different amounts of time and storage space. To eat that
>> cost shows that you have never run a business and don't
>> understand business at all.
>>
>>> the backup will also serve as a
>>> method to restore the customers
>>> personal files if you decide to
>>> wipe the disk and install a new
>>> o.s.
>>
>> I think everyone already knows the above.
>>
>>> if the customer wants the back
>>> up disks you created, then sell
>>> them back to him but make a
>>> copy for your protection.
>>
>> Wrong, if you make a backup you RESTORE the data, time
>> cost to the customer, and you wipe your media or charge
>> the customer for the cost of the media, as any business
>> would properly do.
>>
>> In most cases a tech will bring a portable drive to do
>> backups with, the drive belongs to the tech/company and
>> will not be given to the customer since it's used and is
>> company/tech property.
>>
>> It's completely insane to think that a customer should not
>> have to pay for any part of the cleaning and restore
>> process, and that includes backup and recovery of the
>> customers data.
>>
>> --
>> You can't trust your best friends, your five senses, only
>> the little voice inside you that most civilians don't even
>> hear -- Listen to that. Trust yourself.
>> spam999free@rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email
>> address) .

 

[Leythos]

In article <#VN95or0KHA.4420@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl>, nobody@spamcop.net
says...
> > A backup of data can take hours and each customer can take
> > different amounts of time and storage space. To eat that
> > cost shows that you have never run a business and don't
> > understand business at all.
>
> BS - Only the physical drive with data needs backing up of the
> OS.
> It takes a minute or so to connect a cable, maybe install
> backup support 10 miutes, then a click and forget it. You
> don't sit staring at a machine while it backs up; doing so is
> double-booking because 99% of people will go do something else
> while the backup runs.
> Backups aren't time eaters; it's that simple. Being able to
> do something else while the backup runs is common sense and if
> you aren't doing so, you shouldn't be in business anyway. And
> it seldom if ever takes "hours" to do a backup.
> Backing up should be free or a very minimal price.
> Definitely less than $10; a lot less.
>

You must be missing a lot in the world.

In every case I've come across, there was more being used than the My
Something folders for customers systems.

As for connecting a cable and letting it rip - sure, you connect a USB
drive, say a spare 100GB USB drive, and copy the basic files, then you
go hunting for the ones that are not in the users profile that they can
see, and you copy them.

While they copy there is little else you can be doing, since you can't
start the repair until you've done the backup.

So, if the tech is onsite at a customers location, the only call at that
location, do you really think they are going to leave for an hour and
come back? That's complete nonsense.

The tech is going to stay onsite and wait for the backup, it would be a
loss to leave the site and have to sit in the parking lot listening to
the radio....

I've seen customers with 200+ GB of pictures and video that take hours
to complete a backup to a USB external drive - try it yourself sometime,
and that's if the malware hasn't borked the ability to copy the files...

--
You can't trust your best friends, your five senses, only the little
voice inside you that most civilians don't even hear -- Listen to that.
Trust yourself.
spam999free@rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)