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OT: Forums versus newsgroups - can you indulge a SBS MVP by answeringsome questions?

Discussion in 'Windows XP' started by Susan Bradley, Mar 9, 2010.

  1. Susan Bradley

    Susan Bradley Flightless Bird

    As an SBSer I hope you'll indulge me in a fishing expedition on forums
    versus newsgroups.

    I need to pick your brain a bit if you don't mind? Can I ask some
    fishing expedition questions because I want to see if my thoughts are on
    track with others. Just want to see if my thoughts are out in left
    field or what. I know why I like what I like but I want to know from
    someone else what they like and why.


    Do you like forums over newsgroups and if so why?

    Do you like newsgroups over forums and if so why?

    How did you first find the newsgroups in the first place?

    How do you get here now? Web browser or nntp reader?

    Why do you choose web browser versus nntp reader?

    What makes you keep coming back? Habit?

    If you prefer forums what would make you change to another community
    platform?

    If you prefer newsgroups what would make you change to another community
    platform?

    Do you prefer another community platform over forums AND newsgroups? If
    so, what platform/venue is it? (and if you say twitter I'll bonk ya on
    the head ;-)

    Do you know about the NNTP bridge to make a transition to allow nntp
    like access to a web forum?

    The NNTP Bridge is an application created and maintained by the
    Microsoft Forum team. This application emulates an NNTP server to the
    extent of allowing NNTP newsreader clients to read data from and write
    data to Microsoft forums. It is a custom solution built on top of the
    standard NNTP protocol and expects communication from an NNTP newsreader
    client; therefore it does not necessarily support all NNTP command
    input. The NNTP Bridge acts as a medium of data transportation between
    the newsreader client and Microsoft forums. As a result, the user’s
    experience may change depending on the newsreader client.



    The NNTP Bridge officially targets the following three newsreader clients:

    · Windows Mail

    · Windows Live Mail

    · Outlook Express



    While other clients were also being tested during the development
    process (including Forte Agent and Thunderbird), bugs not pertaining to
    the three targeted clients are not guaranteed to be fixed at this time.



    The installation of the application and the limited UI of the
    application itself (basically a start button, a stop button, and WLID
    sign in page) are only available in English. However, when the Bridge
    is running, you are free to connect to forums of any language and
    read/post in any language you select.






    The NNTP Bridge Client v1.0 Release is available via the Microsoft
    Connect site. Please refer to the following steps to download and
    install it and then configure the newsreader client.



    NOTE: The NNTP Bridge team is accepting your feedback directly on the
    Connect portal. Providing your thoughts and comments there will route
    your requests directly to the Dev team.



    1. Download the utility by following the instructions at
    http://connect.microsoft.com/MicrosoftForums (NNTP Bridge Home Page on
    Connect).



    2. Install the NNTP bridge by following the steps at
    http://connect.microsoft.com/MicrosoftForums/content/content.aspx?ContentID=13820.





    3. Configure your newsreader client:



    3.1). On successful starting of the NNTP Bridge application, start your
    nntp news reader client, ie., Windows Mail.

    3.2). Create a newsgroup account, and type 127.0.0.1 as the NNTP server
    and 119 as the port. With that information it should be able to connect
    to your local NNTP Bridge and successfully list all the forums.



    3.3). Select the partner forum(s) you are interested in.






    Besides, some more resources are for your reference:



    NNTP Bridge Troubleshooting Guide

    http://connect.microsoft.com/MicrosoftForums/content/content.aspx?ContentID=15478



    NNTP Bridge Frequently Asked Questions

    http://connect.microsoft.com/MicrosoftForums/content/content.aspx?ContentID=13816
     
  2. EN59CVH

    EN59CVH Flightless Bird

    Re: OT: Forums versus newsgroups - can you indulge a SBS MVP byansweringsome questions?

    Susan Bradley wrote:
    >


    > The NNTP Bridge officially targets the following three newsreader clients:
    >
    > · Windows Mail
    >
    > · Windows Live Mail
    >
    > · Outlook Express
    >


    I am using NNTP bridge Version 1 (on OL Express) recently issued.
    Fantastic but I have to keep downloading all the messages again after
    every boot. There is a lot of wok to be done on this product.

    Download link is here:
    <http://connect.microsoft.com/MicrosoftForums>

    hth
     
  3. Leythos

    Leythos Flightless Bird

    Re: OT: Forums versus newsgroups - can you indulge a SBS MVP by answering some questions?

    In article <eUSW$u8vKHA.732@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl>, sbradcpa@pacbell.net
    says...
    >
    > As an SBSer I hope you'll indulge me in a fishing expedition on forums
    > versus newsgroups.
    >
    > I need to pick your brain a bit if you don't mind? Can I ask some
    > fishing expedition questions because I want to see if my thoughts are on
    > track with others. Just want to see if my thoughts are out in left
    > field or what. I know why I like what I like but I want to know from
    > someone else what they like and why.
    >
    >
    > Do you like forums over newsgroups and if so why?


    Forums are almost always a terrible source of Information, limited in
    scope, and mostly visited by non-technical people. It's easy to find a
    forum, usenet requires more effort on the part of people.

    > Do you like newsgroups over forums and if so why?


    See above

    > How did you first find the newsgroups in the first place?


    Been using Usenet since 84, it was around before the Web.

    > How do you get here now? Web browser or nntp reader?


    Always use a Usenet Client via NNTP, hate web interfaces.

    > Why do you choose web browser versus nntp reader?


    We is a security risk, doesn't have the same features, you only get what
    the website allows...

    > What makes you keep coming back? Habit?


    Usenet is a great resource for many things and you learn of new trends
    from all over the world in one place - I return for that and to give
    back to the community that has provided me with so much information.

    > If you prefer forums what would make you change to another community
    > platform?


    N/A

    > If you prefer newsgroups what would make you change to another community
    > platform?


    When Heck freezes over I'll stop using Usenet.

    > Do you prefer another community platform over forums AND newsgroups? If
    > so, what platform/venue is it? (and if you say twitter I'll bonk ya on
    > the head ;-)


    No

    >
    > Do you know about the NNTP bridge to make a transition to allow nntp
    > like access to a web forum?


    Don't like WEB at all, to restrictive. Web interfaces to Usenet clutter
    Google searches for technical issues.

    [snip]
    >
    > NOTE: The NNTP Bridge team is accepting your feedback directly on the
    > Connect portal. Providing your thoughts and comments there will route
    > your requests directly to the Dev team.


    Stick with Usenet and you'll be far better off.

    > NNTP Bridge Troubleshooting Guide


    If you stick with something that works, since it's been around longer
    than the web, you don't need a guide.

    --
    You can't trust your best friends, your five senses, only the little
    voice inside you that most civilians don't even hear -- Listen to that.
    Trust yourself.
    spam999free@rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)
     
  4. PA Bear [MS MVP]

    PA Bear [MS MVP] Flightless Bird

    Re: Forums versus newsgroups - can you indulge a SBS MVP by answering some questions?

    OT but related: If you hate MS Answers forums, what do you think of the new
    Windows Live Help forums & UI?
    http://windowslivehelp.com/


    Susan Bradley wrote:
    > As an SBSer I hope you'll indulge me in a fishing expedition on forums
    > versus newsgroups.
    >
    > I need to pick your brain a bit if you don't mind? Can I ask some
    > fishing expedition questions because I want to see if my thoughts are on
    > track with others. Just want to see if my thoughts are out in left
    > field or what. I know why I like what I like but I want to know from
    > someone else what they like and why.
     
  5. Bruce Chambers

    Bruce Chambers Flightless Bird

    Re: OT: Forums versus newsgroups - can you indulge a SBS MVP byanswering some questions?

    Susan Bradley wrote:
    > As an SBSer I hope you'll indulge me in a fishing expedition on forums
    > versus newsgroups.
    >
    > I need to pick your brain a bit if you don't mind? Can I ask some
    > fishing expedition questions because I want to see if my thoughts are on
    > track with others. Just want to see if my thoughts are out in left
    > field or what. I know why I like what I like but I want to know from
    > someone else what they like and why.
    >
    >
    > Do you like forums over newsgroups and if so why?
    >


    No. Web-based forums are too slow and cumbersome. HTML permits way
    too many useless, childish distractions like smiley faces, animations,
    animations, pictures, etc., as well as potentially harboring malicious code.


    > Do you like newsgroups over forums and if so why?
    >


    Certainly. Usenet was around before the web. It's plain text, so much
    safer and "eye-candy" free, as well as being faster. Plain text is all
    that's needed.


    > How did you first find the newsgroups in the first place?
    >



    Too long ago; don't really remember. Learned it along with Gopher,
    Veronica, etc. I do recall that the web was exceedingly "primitive" at
    the time.


    > How do you get here now? Web browser or nntp reader?
    >


    NNTP Bridge. Otherwise, I'd not be here at all.

    > Why do you choose web browser versus nntp reader?
    >



    N/A


    > What makes you keep coming back? Habit?
    >


    To help people, preferably teaching them to learn to help themselves,
    as well.


    > If you prefer forums what would make you change to another community
    > platform?
    >


    N/A

    > If you prefer newsgroups what would make you change to another community
    > platform?
    >



    Maybe if hell were to freeze over.... NAH!


    > Do you prefer another community platform over forums AND newsgroups? If
    > so, what platform/venue is it? (and if you say twitter I'll bonk ya on
    > the head ;-)
    >


    N/A

    > Do you know about the NNTP bridge to make a transition to allow nntp
    > like access to a web forum?
    >


    Obviously. It's slower and less convenient that Usenet, but it does at
    least make participating in web-based forums tolerable.


    --

    Bruce Chambers

    Help us help you:
    http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

    http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/555375

    They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
    safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. ~Benjamin Franklin

    Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. ~Bertrand Russell

    The philosopher has never killed any priests, whereas the priest has
    killed a great many philosophers.
    ~ Denis Diderot
     
  6. Bo Berglund

    Bo Berglund Flightless Bird

    Re: OT: Forums versus newsgroups - can you indulge a SBS MVP by answering some questions?

    On Tue, 09 Mar 2010 18:54:21 -0700, Bruce Chambers
    <bchambers@cable0ne.n3t> wrote:


    >> How do you get here now? Web browser or nntp reader?
    >>

    >
    > NNTP Bridge. Otherwise, I'd not be here at all.
    >


    I absolutely *hate* the web based forums, which decide how much info
    to show (too little) and are impossibly slow. No possibility to
    instantly jump from one post to another and too much wasted space on
    screen....

    So I would not even consider visiting one unless forced by a small
    firearm in my back.

    But your comment about the NNTP Bridge made me curious...
    Does it really work with any news client or do you have to use one of
    the Microsoft email clients with built-in meagre news support like OL
    EXpress and the like?

    I use a *real* news reader (Forte Agent) myself. Is it possible to
    make that work with the HTTP Bridge thingie to access the web forums
    *without* the web part???

    --

    Bo Berglund (Sweden)
     
  7. Paul

    Paul Flightless Bird

    Re: OT: Forums versus newsgroups - can you indulge a SBS MVP byanswering some questions?

    Susan Bradley wrote:
    > As an SBSer I hope you'll indulge me in a fishing expedition on forums
    > versus newsgroups.
    >
    > I need to pick your brain a bit if you don't mind? Can I ask some
    > fishing expedition questions because I want to see if my thoughts are on
    > track with others. Just want to see if my thoughts are out in left
    > field or what. I know why I like what I like but I want to know from
    > someone else what they like and why.
    >
    >
    > Do you like forums over newsgroups and if so why?
    >
    > Do you like newsgroups over forums and if so why?
    >


    There are a couple aspects of web forums I dislike.

    1) Web site owner can delete the entire forum, without
    notice or consultation. This happened to the site at
    Matrox, ViaArena, and the early Asus forum. Many operators
    also don't feel the need to port discussion threads previously
    posted, when changing forum software ("too much work to move the
    posts"). In other words, we're at the mercy of centralized
    storage and narrow thinking ("how can I make a buck by
    doing this").

    By using "norobots", a web site owner can prevent archive
    engines on the web, from keeping a copy of the site, in case
    it goes missing.

    2) Web site design, and the concept that the web site owner knows best.
    Some web forums have absolutely gag-inducing interfaces. How about
    a web site search box, where you have to type a Captcha before a
    search can be executed, only to have the Captcha be denied on each
    attempt ? How about "type your answer into this tiny box" ?

    3) On sites like a Dell or HP forum, if the mods feel customer posts
    are hitting a little too close to the truth about a product, they
    delete the posts.

    USENET newsgroups are preferred, because nobody owns them and they are
    decentralized. Google archives them, but anyone owning some terabyte
    sized disk drives can do it if they want too.

    I don't think anybody answering questions, wants that answer to only
    be heard by the single person posting the question. They also want
    people who have the same question later, to be able to find the answer
    with a search engine. And USENET is still (barely) meeting the second
    objective.

    Paul
     
  8. Ken Blake, MVP

    Ken Blake, MVP Flightless Bird

    Re: OT: Forums versus newsgroups - can you indulge a SBS MVP by answering some questions?

    On Wed, 10 Mar 2010 07:29:00 +0100, Bo Berglund
    <boberglund@myotherhome.sec> wrote:

    > On Tue, 09 Mar 2010 18:54:21 -0700, Bruce Chambers
    > <bchambers@cable0ne.n3t> wrote:
    >
    >
    > >> How do you get here now? Web browser or nntp reader?
    > >>

    > >
    > > NNTP Bridge. Otherwise, I'd not be here at all.
    > >

    >
    > I absolutely *hate* the web based forums, which decide how much info
    > to show (too little) and are impossibly slow. No possibility to
    > instantly jump from one post to another and too much wasted space on
    > screen....
    >
    > So I would not even consider visiting one unless forced by a small
    > firearm in my back.
    >
    > But your comment about the NNTP Bridge made me curious...
    > Does it really work with any news client




    Yes, but it doesn't work perfectly with any of them.


    > or do you have to use one of
    > the Microsoft email clients with built-in meagre news support like OL
    > EXpress and the like?



    It doesn't work perfectly with any of those either.


    > I use a *real* news reader (Forte Agent) myself. Is it possible to
    > make that work with the HTTP Bridge thingie to access the web forums
    > *without* the web part???




    Yes, but it works with many more problems with Agent than with other
    newsreaders. I use Agent for everything but the NNTP Bridge; I use
    Windows Live Mail for that, since it works *much* better for it than
    Agent.


    --
    Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP (Windows Desktop Experience) since 2003
    Please Reply to the Newsgroup
     
  9. Bruce Chambers

    Bruce Chambers Flightless Bird

    Re: OT: Forums versus newsgroups - can you indulge a SBS MVP byanswering some questions?

    Bo Berglund wrote:
    >
    >>

    >
    > I absolutely *hate* the web based forums, which decide how much info
    > to show (too little) and are impossibly slow. No possibility to
    > instantly jump from one post to another and too much wasted space on
    > screen....
    >
    > So I would not even consider visiting one unless forced by a small
    > firearm in my back.
    >
    > But your comment about the NNTP Bridge made me curious...
    > Does it really work with any news client or do you have to use one of
    > the Microsoft email clients with built-in meagre news support like OL
    > EXpress and the like?
    >
    > I use a *real* news reader (Forte Agent) myself. Is it possible to
    > make that work with the HTTP Bridge thingie to access the web forums
    > *without* the web part???
    >



    I don't know if the NNTP Bridge will work with _any_ news reader, but I
    use it with Thunderbird. From the FAQ:

    Which NNTP newsreader clients does the NNTP Bridge support?

    Our priority is to support Outlook Express, Windows Mail, and Windows
    Live Mail. However, we have also been testing the Bridge application
    against Thunderbird and Forte Agent.

    Online Forums Connection Microsoft Connect
    https://connect.microsoft.com/site927


    --

    Bruce Chambers

    Help us help you:
    http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

    http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/555375

    They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
    safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. ~Benjamin Franklin

    Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do. ~Bertrand Russell

    The philosopher has never killed any priests, whereas the priest has
    killed a great many philosophers.
    ~ Denis Diderot
     
  10. NDB

    NDB Flightless Bird

    Re: OT: Forums versus newsgroups - can you indulge a SBS MVP byanswering some questions?

    Susan Bradley wrote:
    > As an SBSer I hope you'll indulge me in a fishing expedition on forums
    > versus newsgroups.
    >
    > I need to pick your brain a bit if you don't mind? Can I ask some
    > fishing expedition questions because I want to see if my thoughts are on
    > track with others. Just want to see if my thoughts are out in left
    > field or what. I know why I like what I like but I want to know from
    > someone else what they like and why.
    >
    >
    > Do you like forums over newsgroups and if so why?


    No, the interface is clumsy and slow and horrible
    >
    > Do you like newsgroups over forums and if so why?


    Yes, the interface is much cleaner and simpler in newsgroups, and you
    have much more control over how much of what kinds of information tracks
    you leave

    >
    > How did you first find the newsgroups in the first place?


    Word of mouth
    >
    > How do you get here now? Web browser or nntp reader?


    Thunderbird
    >
    > Why do you choose web browser versus nntp reader?


    I don't
    >
    > What makes you keep coming back? Habit?


    Well, many things I guess. I'm a tech, so reading technology groups
    interests me, I like helping people when I can, and I learn alot of new
    things reading newsgroups.
    >
    > If you prefer forums what would make you change to another community
    > platform?
    >
    > If you prefer newsgroups what would make you change to another community
    > platform?


    Nothing
    >
    > Do you prefer another community platform over forums AND newsgroups? If
    > so, what platform/venue is it? (and if you say twitter I'll bonk ya on
    > the head ;-)


    IRC is pretty good too
    >
    > Do you know about the NNTP bridge to make a transition to allow nntp
    > like access to a web forum?


    Yes
    >
    > The NNTP Bridge is an application created and maintained by the
    > Microsoft Forum team. This application emulates an NNTP server to the
    > extent of allowing NNTP newsreader clients to read data from and write
    > data to Microsoft forums. It is a custom solution built on top of the
    > standard NNTP protocol and expects communication from an NNTP newsreader
    > client; therefore it does not necessarily support all NNTP command
    > input. The NNTP Bridge acts as a medium of data transportation between
    > the newsreader client and Microsoft forums. As a result, the user’s
    > experience may change depending on the newsreader client.
    >
    >
    >
    > The NNTP Bridge officially targets the following three newsreader clients:
    >
    > · Windows Mail
    >
    > · Windows Live Mail
    >
    > · Outlook Express
    >
    >
    >
    > While other clients were also being tested during the development
    > process (including Forte Agent and Thunderbird), bugs not pertaining to
    > the three targeted clients are not guaranteed to be fixed at this time.
    >
    >
    >
    > The installation of the application and the limited UI of the
    > application itself (basically a start button, a stop button, and WLID
    > sign in page) are only available in English. However, when the Bridge
    > is running, you are free to connect to forums of any language and
    > read/post in any language you select.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > The NNTP Bridge Client v1.0 Release is available via the Microsoft
    > Connect site. Please refer to the following steps to download and
    > install it and then configure the newsreader client.
    >
    >
    >
    > NOTE: The NNTP Bridge team is accepting your feedback directly on the
    > Connect portal. Providing your thoughts and comments there will route
    > your requests directly to the Dev team.
    >
    >
    >
    > 1. Download the utility by following the instructions at
    > http://connect.microsoft.com/MicrosoftForums (NNTP Bridge Home Page on
    > Connect).
    >
    >
    >
    > 2. Install the NNTP bridge by following the steps at
    > http://connect.microsoft.com/MicrosoftForums/content/content.aspx?ContentID=13820.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > 3. Configure your newsreader client:
    >
    >
    >
    > 3.1). On successful starting of the NNTP Bridge application, start your
    > nntp news reader client, ie., Windows Mail.
    >
    > 3.2). Create a newsgroup account, and type 127.0.0.1 as the NNTP server
    > and 119 as the port. With that information it should be able to connect
    > to your local NNTP Bridge and successfully list all the forums.
    >
    >
    >
    > 3.3). Select the partner forum(s) you are interested in.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Besides, some more resources are for your reference:
    >
    >
    >
    > NNTP Bridge Troubleshooting Guide
    >
    > http://connect.microsoft.com/MicrosoftForums/content/content.aspx?ContentID=15478
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > NNTP Bridge Frequently Asked Questions
    >
    > http://connect.microsoft.com/MicrosoftForums/content/content.aspx?ContentID=13816
    >
     

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