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Missing Newsgroups

Discussion in 'Windows XP' started by scott, Sep 6, 2010.

  1. scott

    scott Flightless Bird

    I've been using outlook express version 6 (win xp) for years to read the
    msnews.microsoft.com newsgroups. I recently noticed that only maybe 5% of
    all of the available msnews.microsoft.com newsgroups will display in the
    newsgroups dialog.

    For example, there are no excel or access newsgroups even listed. Has
    microsoft changed something? How can I read the missing msnews.microsoft.com
    newsgroups with outlook express 6?
     
  2. BillW50

    BillW50 Flightless Bird

    scott wrote on Mon, 6 Sep 2010 18:10:33 -0500:
    > I've been using outlook express version 6 (win xp) for years to read the
    > msnews.microsoft.com newsgroups. I recently noticed that only maybe 5% of
    > all of the available msnews.microsoft.com newsgroups will display in the
    > newsgroups dialog.
    >
    > For example, there are no excel or access newsgroups even listed. Has
    > microsoft changed something? How can I read the missing msnews.microsoft.com
    > newsgroups with outlook express 6?


    No! Microsoft are getting rid of all of them by October I believe it is.
    But you can use other non-Microsoft news servers and get all of them.

    --
    Bill
    Asus EEE PC 702G4 ~ 2GB RAM ~ 16GB-SDHC
    Xandros Linux (build 2007-10-19 13:03)
     
  3. mark

    mark Flightless Bird

    Bill,
    if microsoft is not support its newsgroups by october then how can other non ms servers get the articles?
     
  4. Paul

    Paul Flightless Bird

    mark wrote:
    > Bill,
    > if microsoft is not support its newsgroups by october then how can other non ms servers get the articles?
    >
    >


    USENET is a set of peer to peer servers.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet

    No server is the "master". When Microsoft disconnects their server, the
    other servers can continue to exchange messages as they always
    have. There just won't be a web-to-USENET server hosted at
    Microsoft, that contributes as many articles to the distribution.

    As long as individual USENET server administrators, don't remove
    the microsoft.* hierarchy, those groups can function. And using
    a news reader (like Forte Agent or Thunderbird), plus a free server
    like nntp.aioe.org , will allow you to continue posting articles
    to those USENET groups.

    http://www.aioe.org/ (no account required, limit on articles posted per day)

    As to whether people will use the Microsoft private forum, or
    go elsewhere, really depends on whether they're getting the answers
    they're looking for. The USENET option is harder to find, and takes
    work on the part of the user. It doesn't have an "advertising budget"
    as such. And USENET has the advantage, for at least the moment,
    that Google archives all the posted articles, so they won't get lost.

    Paul
     
  5. PA Bear [MS MVP]

    PA Bear [MS MVP] Flightless Bird

    The OE newsgroups & many others were dropped from the MS newsservers in
    early July 2010; cf.
    http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support/msg/e6e22fe7bc8b1f04

    This WinXP General newsgroup will be dropped from the MS newsservers on 12
    Sept-10.

    Microsoft Responds to the Evolution of Communities:
    http://www.microsoft.com/communities/newsgroups/default.mspx

    You will find continuing support for WinXP in these forums:
    http://social.answers.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/category/windowsxp
    --
    ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
    MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Client - since 2002


    scott wrote:
    > I've been using outlook express version 6 (win xp) for years to read the
    > msnews.microsoft.com newsgroups. I recently noticed that only maybe 5% of
    > all of the available msnews.microsoft.com newsgroups will display in the
    > newsgroups dialog.
    >
    > For example, there are no excel or access newsgroups even listed. Has
    > microsoft changed something? How can I read the missing
    > msnews.microsoft.com
    > newsgroups with outlook express 6?
     
  6. VanguardLH

    VanguardLH Flightless Bird

    scott wrote:

    > I've been using outlook express version 6 (win xp) for years to read the
    > msnews.microsoft.com newsgroups. I recently noticed that only maybe 5% of
    > all of the available msnews.microsoft.com newsgroups will display in the
    > newsgroups dialog.
    >
    > For example, there are no excel or access newsgroups even listed. Has
    > microsoft changed something? How can I read the missing msnews.microsoft.com
    > newsgroups with outlook express 6?


    Microsoft is scrambling away from Usenet. Microsoft is not Usenet but
    just one node in the worldwide mesh network of NNTP servers. Despite
    the departure of Microsoft, Usenet will continue to exist as will the
    microsoft.public.* group; however, obviously you need to use a different
    node in the Usenet network to get at those groups. Eventually you won't
    even be able to connect to [ms]news.microsoft.com because they'll kill
    that server.

    NNTP is not an included server in the later versions of Windows Server
    (Windows 2003 Server was the last server version of Windows that
    included their NNTP server). Microsoft isn't going to support an OS or
    any part of it that is no longer under support. The rest of us know
    that software remains usable for years or even decades after support is
    dead or even if its author/owner fades into oblivion. The NNTP protocol
    has changed little (which means it's stable) with some extensions added
    back in 2000 but stability isn't what is important to Microsoft.
    Microsoft won't support newsgroups because they lost their own NNTP
    server in a supported version of their own OS but God forbid they use
    anyone else's NNTP server. It's not Microsoft owned so Microsoft can't
    use it. And Microsoft still trying to convince users not to abandon
    Microsoft with a claim that they're embracing open standards. Uh huh.

    Microsoft had no effective control over the content of posts in the
    microsoft.public.* groups because, well, it's Usenet and Usenet is an
    anarchy. They could filter out posts submitted to their NNTP server or
    peered to them from other NNTP servers but they could do absolutely
    nothing about the content in those same newsgroups carried on all the
    rest of Usenet. So Microsoft finds excuses to close a very cheap
    communications venue for free peer support and instead pushes their
    customers to inane web-based forums lacking a vast number of features
    that have been common to newsreaders for over a decade.

    Microsoft did give a glancing stab at providing an NNTP-to-webforum
    gateway that runs locally on your host (instead on their server to which
    you would connect your NNTP server) and there is also a better
    "Community" version (somewhere on Sourceforge, I think) but if you try
    either then it won't be long until you abandon that access method.
    Trying to get articles updated through the NNTP-to-webforum gateway is
    extremely slow. Microsoft's gateway (which itself proclaims that
    Microsoft didn't write that program) screwed up the Message-ID header's
    value hence the values listed in the References header which led to
    threading problems in many if perhaps not all newsreaders. The
    Community version of the gateway fixes that but the excrutianting slow
    article retrieval will make you long for the days of 1200 baud dial-up
    when downloading e-mail which was far more speedy. Plus, if you visit
    their web-based forums for awhile, you start to realize that the minimal
    intelligence needed to configure a newsreader automatically eliminated
    some of the severest boobs that still show up in the forums.

    Their forums are a mess. They don't even have features that are typical
    in other web-based forums that usually employ phpBB or vBulletin. Yeah,
    I know, those aren't Microsoft products either and why Microsoft will
    refuse to use them.
     
  7. W****n S.

    W****n S. Flightless Bird

    "VanguardLH" <V@nguard.LH> wrote in message
    news:i640tm$sbg$1@news.albasani.net...
    > scott wrote:
    >
    >> I've been using outlook express version 6 (win xp) for years to read the
    >> msnews.microsoft.com newsgroups. I recently noticed that only maybe 5% of
    >> all of the available msnews.microsoft.com newsgroups will display in the
    >> newsgroups dialog.
    >>
    >> For example, there are no excel or access newsgroups even listed. Has
    >> microsoft changed something? How can I read the missing
    >> msnews.microsoft.com
    >> newsgroups with outlook express 6?

    >
    > Microsoft is scrambling away from Usenet. Microsoft is not Usenet but
    > just one node in the worldwide mesh network of NNTP servers. Despite
    > the departure of Microsoft, Usenet will continue to exist as will the
    > microsoft.public.* group; however, obviously you need to use a different
    > node in the Usenet network to get at those groups. Eventually you won't
    > even be able to connect to [ms]news.microsoft.com because they'll kill
    > that server.
    >
    > NNTP is not an included server in the later versions of Windows Server
    > (Windows 2003 Server was the last server version of Windows that
    > included their NNTP server). Microsoft isn't going to support an OS or
    > any part of it that is no longer under support. The rest of us know
    > that software remains usable for years or even decades after support is
    > dead or even if its author/owner fades into oblivion. The NNTP protocol
    > has changed little (which means it's stable) with some extensions added
    > back in 2000 but stability isn't what is important to Microsoft.
    > Microsoft won't support newsgroups because they lost their own NNTP
    > server in a supported version of their own OS but God forbid they use
    > anyone else's NNTP server. It's not Microsoft owned so Microsoft can't
    > use it. And Microsoft still trying to convince users not to abandon
    > Microsoft with a claim that they're embracing open standards. Uh huh.
    >
    > Microsoft had no effective control over the content of posts in the
    > microsoft.public.* groups because, well, it's Usenet and Usenet is an
    > anarchy. They could filter out posts submitted to their NNTP server or
    > peered to them from other NNTP servers but they could do absolutely
    > nothing about the content in those same newsgroups carried on all the
    > rest of Usenet. So Microsoft finds excuses to close a very cheap
    > communications venue for free peer support and instead pushes their
    > customers to inane web-based forums lacking a vast number of features
    > that have been common to newsreaders for over a decade.
    >
    > Microsoft did give a glancing stab at providing an NNTP-to-webforum
    > gateway that runs locally on your host (instead on their server to which
    > you would connect your NNTP server) and there is also a better
    > "Community" version (somewhere on Sourceforge, I think) but if you try
    > either then it won't be long until you abandon that access method.
    > Trying to get articles updated through the NNTP-to-webforum gateway is
    > extremely slow. Microsoft's gateway (which itself proclaims that
    > Microsoft didn't write that program) screwed up the Message-ID header's
    > value hence the values listed in the References header which led to
    > threading problems in many if perhaps not all newsreaders. The
    > Community version of the gateway fixes that but the excrutianting slow
    > article retrieval will make you long for the days of 1200 baud dial-up
    > when downloading e-mail which was far more speedy. Plus, if you visit
    > their web-based forums for awhile, you start to realize that the minimal
    > intelligence needed to configure a newsreader automatically eliminated
    > some of the severest boobs that still show up in the forums.
    >
    > Their forums are a mess. They don't even have features that are typical
    > in other web-based forums that usually employ phpBB or vBulletin. Yeah,
    > I know, those aren't Microsoft products either and why Microsoft will
    > refuse to use them.


    Well put.

    Web based forums are just a plain pain in the arse.

    Thanks Micro$oft.
     
  8. Guest

    Guest Flightless Bird

    "Paul" <nospam@needed.com> wrote in message news:i63uv4$qhp$1@speranza.aioe.org...
    > As to whether people will use the Microsoft private forum, or
    > go elsewhere, really depends on whether they're getting the answers
    > they're looking for. The USENET option is harder to find, and takes
    > work on the part of the user. It doesn't have an "advertising budget"
    > as such. And USENET has the advantage, for at least the moment,
    > that Google archives all the posted articles, so they won't get lost.


    Usenet will be around long after Microsoft is a distant memory.
     
  9. milt

    milt Flightless Bird

    On 9/6/2010 6:21 PM, BillW50 wrote:
    > scott wrote on Mon, 6 Sep 2010 18:10:33 -0500:
    >> I've been using outlook express version 6 (win xp) for years to read
    >> the msnews.microsoft.com newsgroups. I recently noticed that only
    >> maybe 5% of all of the available msnews.microsoft.com newsgroups will
    >> display in the newsgroups dialog.
    >>
    >> For example, there are no excel or access newsgroups even listed. Has
    >> microsoft changed something? How can I read the missing
    >> msnews.microsoft.com newsgroups with outlook express 6?

    >
    > No! Microsoft are getting rid of all of them by October I believe it is.
    > But you can use other non-Microsoft news servers and get all of them.
    >


    Not that there would be any point... I know this and the Vista group are
    gone as of the 12th. The server is gone as of the 1st of Oct. This has
    only been discussed a billion times, perhaps you would be better served
    by the new MS forums where no one bothers to look up anything and wants
    everything spoon fed to them even if its been answered 20 times in the
    past day.
     
  10. mm

    mm Flightless Bird

    On Mon, 06 Sep 2010 16:38:38 -0700, mark <user@msgroups.net/> wrote:

    >Bill,
    >if microsoft is not support its newsgroups by october then how can other non ms servers get the articles?


    Microsoft support is not needed. The other servers will get articles
    when people using the other servers post them, just like now.

    No offense but it it's sort of like asking, We used to have 8 cars
    taking people to the baseball game and now we have only 7. How will
    we get there?
    >
     
  11. mm

    mm Flightless Bird

    On Tue, 7 Sep 2010 15:05:26 -0700, <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:

    >"Paul" <nospam@needed.com> wrote in message news:i63uv4$qhp$1@speranza.aioe.org...
    >> As to whether people will use the Microsoft private forum, or
    >> go elsewhere, really depends on whether they're getting the answers
    >> they're looking for. The USENET option is harder to find, and takes
    >> work on the part of the user. It doesn't have an "advertising budget"
    >> as such. And USENET has the advantage, for at least the moment,
    >> that Google archives all the posted articles, so they won't get lost.

    >
    >Usenet will be around long after Microsoft is a distant memory.


    I think so,

    And it's not just free news servers, but there are paid news servers
    for 3 to ?10? dollars a month, that have in many cases longer
    retention times, or have binaries (which I have no use for.)
    >
     
  12. mm

    mm Flightless Bird

    On Mon, 6 Sep 2010 19:40:36 -0400, "PA Bear [MS MVP]"
    <PABearMVP@gmail.com> wrote:

    >The OE newsgroups & many others were dropped from the MS newsservers in
    >early July 2010; cf.
    >http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support/msg/e6e22fe7bc8b1f04
    >
    >This WinXP General newsgroup will be dropped from the MS newsservers on 12
    >Sept-10.
    >
    >Microsoft Responds to the Evolution of Communities:
    >http://www.microsoft.com/communities/newsgroups/default.mspx
    >
    >You will find continuing support for WinXP in these forums:
    >http://social.answers.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/category/windowsxp



    And you will find continuing support right here
    on microsoft.public.windowsxp.general .


    But you'll have to use a different newsserver from the MS server.
     
  13. mm

    mm Flightless Bird

    On Mon, 6 Sep 2010 21:17:08 -0700, "W****n S."
    <Thisisnotreal@guess.com> wrote:

    >
    >"VanguardLH" <V@nguard.LH> wrote in message
    >news:i640tm$sbg$1@news.albasani.net...
    >> scott wrote:
    >>
    >>> I've been using outlook express version 6 (win xp) for years to read the
    >>> msnews.microsoft.com newsgroups. I recently noticed that only maybe 5% of
    >>> all of the available msnews.microsoft.com newsgroups will display in the
    >>> newsgroups dialog.
    >>>
    >>> For example, there are no excel or access newsgroups even listed. Has
    >>> microsoft changed something? How can I read the missing
    >>> msnews.microsoft.com
    >>> newsgroups with outlook express 6?

    >>
    >> Microsoft is scrambling away from Usenet. Microsoft is not Usenet but
    >> just one node in the worldwide mesh network of NNTP servers. Despite
    >> the departure of Microsoft, Usenet will continue to exist as will the
    >> microsoft.public.* group; however, obviously you need to use a different
    >> node in the Usenet network to get at those groups. Eventually you won't
    >> even be able to connect to [ms]news.microsoft.com because they'll kill
    >> that server.
    >>
    >> NNTP is not an included server in the later versions of Windows Server
    >> (Windows 2003 Server was the last server version of Windows that
    >> included their NNTP server). Microsoft isn't going to support an OS or
    >> any part of it that is no longer under support. The rest of us know
    >> that software remains usable for years or even decades after support is
    >> dead or even if its author/owner fades into oblivion. The NNTP protocol
    >> has changed little (which means it's stable) with some extensions added
    >> back in 2000 but stability isn't what is important to Microsoft.
    >> Microsoft won't support newsgroups because they lost their own NNTP
    >> server in a supported version of their own OS but God forbid they use
    >> anyone else's NNTP server. It's not Microsoft owned so Microsoft can't
    >> use it. And Microsoft still trying to convince users not to abandon
    >> Microsoft with a claim that they're embracing open standards. Uh huh.
    >>
    >> Microsoft had no effective control over the content of posts in the
    >> microsoft.public.* groups because, well, it's Usenet and Usenet is an
    >> anarchy. They could filter out posts submitted to their NNTP server or
    >> peered to them from other NNTP servers but they could do absolutely
    >> nothing about the content in those same newsgroups carried on all the
    >> rest of Usenet. So Microsoft finds excuses to close a very cheap
    >> communications venue for free peer support and instead pushes their
    >> customers to inane web-based forums lacking a vast number of features
    >> that have been common to newsreaders for over a decade.
    >>
    >> Microsoft did give a glancing stab at providing an NNTP-to-webforum
    >> gateway that runs locally on your host (instead on their server to which
    >> you would connect your NNTP server) and there is also a better
    >> "Community" version (somewhere on Sourceforge, I think) but if you try
    >> either then it won't be long until you abandon that access method.
    >> Trying to get articles updated through the NNTP-to-webforum gateway is
    >> extremely slow. Microsoft's gateway (which itself proclaims that
    >> Microsoft didn't write that program) screwed up the Message-ID header's
    >> value hence the values listed in the References header which led to
    >> threading problems in many if perhaps not all newsreaders. The
    >> Community version of the gateway fixes that but the excrutianting slow
    >> article retrieval will make you long for the days of 1200 baud dial-up
    >> when downloading e-mail which was far more speedy. Plus, if you visit
    >> their web-based forums for awhile, you start to realize that the minimal
    >> intelligence needed to configure a newsreader automatically eliminated
    >> some of the severest boobs that still show up in the forums.
    >>
    >> Their forums are a mess. They don't even have features that are typical
    >> in other web-based forums that usually employ phpBB or vBulletin. Yeah,
    >> I know, those aren't Microsoft products either and why Microsoft will
    >> refuse to use them.

    >
    >Well put.


    Yes it was.
    >
    >Web based forums are just a plain pain in the arse.


    Yes they are.

    BTW, mozilla may not broadcast its newsgroups, or whatever it's called
    to let other servers carry them. But mozzilla has 45 mozilla
    newsgroups , related to firefox, Netscape, Thunderbird and maybe other
    stuff, on its own news server, news.mozilla.org iirc. Many/most
    computer programs to read news allow one to use more than one news
    server at the same time, so you do have to put in another entry for
    servers, but there's no charge, and the ARE newsgroups, with all the
    advantages of newsgroups. Although there are 45 ngs, 3 of them will
    get most of the business.)

    >Thanks Micro$oft.


    UGH.
     
  14. Klaatu Barada Nikto

    Klaatu Barada Nikto Flightless Bird

    > only been discussed a billion times, perhaps you would be better served by
    > the new MS forums where no one bothers to look up anything and wants
    > everything spoon fed to them even if its been answered 20 times in the
    > past day.


    That's the way it's always been, even in the NNTP MS newsgroups.
     
  15. Klaatu Barada Nikto

    Klaatu Barada Nikto Flightless Bird


    >
    > And you will find continuing support right here
    > on microsoft.public.windowsxp.general .
    >

    You still don't get it, HoopleHead.
     
  16. ctowers

    ctowers Flightless Bird

    "mm" <NOPSAMmm2005@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
    news:jc7e865qie74o4e25sn8oqcff2ds145jfd@4ax.com...
    > On Mon, 06 Sep 2010 16:38:38 -0700, mark <user@msgroups.net/> wrote:
    >
    >>Bill,
    >>if microsoft is not support its newsgroups by october then how can other
    >>non ms servers get the articles?

    >
    > Microsoft support is not needed. The other servers will get articles
    > when people using the other servers post them, just like now.
    >
    > No offense but it it's sort of like asking, We used to have 8 cars
    > taking people to the baseball game and now we have only 7. How will
    > we get there?
    >>

    >
     
  17. ctowers

    ctowers Flightless Bird

    mm wrote:
    > On Mon, 06 Sep 2010 mark wrote:
    >
    >> Bill,
    >> if microsoft is not support its newsgroups by october then how can
    >> other non ms servers get the articles?

    >
    > Microsoft support is not needed. The other servers will get articles
    > when people using the other servers post them, just like now.
    >
    > No offense but it it's sort of like asking, We used to have 8 cars
    > taking people to the baseball game and now we have only 7. How will
    > we get there?



    I am beginning to think the /innocent/ and /inexperienced/ questioners are
    really Microsoft shills using incessant repetitive questions to instill
    gloom and doom into newsgroup advocates.
     
  18. Tim Meddick

    Tim Meddick Flightless Bird

    It's really sad.....

    Because of M$'s decision to close the Groups, I added the following to my
    OE :

    (nntp.aioe.org)
    alt.msdos.batch
    alt.windows-xp

    ....the sadness comes when a whole day can go by without anything new being
    posted to them!!

    Wasted resources.......

    ==

    Cheers, Tim Meddick, Peckham, London. :)




    "scott" <sbailey@mileslumber.com> wrote in message
    news:%23$m81ihTLHA.2064@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
    > I've been using outlook express version 6 (win xp) for years to read the
    > msnews.microsoft.com newsgroups. I recently noticed that only maybe 5% of
    > all of the available msnews.microsoft.com newsgroups will display in the
    > newsgroups dialog.
    >
    > For example, there are no excel or access newsgroups even listed. Has
    > microsoft changed something? How can I read the missing
    > msnews.microsoft.com newsgroups with outlook express 6?
    >
     
  19. Steve Cochran

    Steve Cochran Flightless Bird

    Microsoft's waste bathwater has a lot of babies in it.

    steve

    "Tim Meddick" <timmeddick@o2.co.uk> wrote in message news:-OO6zrQBULHA.5912@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
    > It's really sad.....
    >
    > Because of M$'s decision to close the Groups, I added the following to my
    > OE :
    >
    > (nntp.aioe.org)
    > alt.msdos.batch
    > alt.windows-xp
    >
    > ...the sadness comes when a whole day can go by without anything new being
    > posted to them!!
    >
    > Wasted resources.......
    >
    > ==
    >
    > Cheers, Tim Meddick, Peckham, London. :)
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > "scott" <sbailey@mileslumber.com> wrote in message
    > news:%23$m81ihTLHA.2064@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
    >> I've been using outlook express version 6 (win xp) for years to read the
    >> msnews.microsoft.com newsgroups. I recently noticed that only maybe 5% of
    >> all of the available msnews.microsoft.com newsgroups will display in the
    >> newsgroups dialog.
    >>
    >> For example, there are no excel or access newsgroups even listed. Has
    >> microsoft changed something? How can I read the missing
    >> msnews.microsoft.com newsgroups with outlook express 6?
    >>

    >
     
  20. Bob I

    Bob I Flightless Bird

    You'll find the "babies" are over on "google groups".

    Steve Cochran wrote:

    > Microsoft's waste bathwater has a lot of babies in it.
    >
    > steve
    >
    > "Tim Meddick" <timmeddick@o2.co.uk> wrote in message news:-OO6zrQBULHA.5912@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
    >
    >>It's really sad.....
    >>
    >>Because of M$'s decision to close the Groups, I added the following to my
    >>OE :
    >>
    >>(nntp.aioe.org)
    >>alt.msdos.batch
    >>alt.windows-xp
    >>
    >>...the sadness comes when a whole day can go by without anything new being
    >>posted to them!!
    >>
    >>Wasted resources.......
    >>
    >>==
    >>
    >>Cheers, Tim Meddick, Peckham, London. :)
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>"scott" <sbailey@mileslumber.com> wrote in message
    >>news:%23$m81ihTLHA.2064@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
    >>
    >>>I've been using outlook express version 6 (win xp) for years to read the
    >>>msnews.microsoft.com newsgroups. I recently noticed that only maybe 5% of
    >>>all of the available msnews.microsoft.com newsgroups will display in the
    >>>newsgroups dialog.
    >>>
    >>>For example, there are no excel or access newsgroups even listed. Has
    >>>microsoft changed something? How can I read the missing
    >>>msnews.microsoft.com newsgroups with outlook express 6?
    >>>

    >
    >>
     

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