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Elevating privilege in command prompt

Discussion in 'Windows 7' started by Stan Brown, Aug 15, 2010.

  1. Stan Brown

    Stan Brown Flightless Bird

    This is so bizarre that I thought I'd share.

    I wanted to convert an external drive to NTFS from FAT32. So I
    right-clicked on "Command Prompt" in the Start menu, selected Run As
    Administrator, then typed the Convert command.

    Bang "Access Denied" and a message that I must run in elevated mode
    to do that command.

    Check Windows help. Advice is to right-click the command prompt and
    do Run As Administrator, then type the command. Exactly what didn't
    work, in other words.

    Fortunately, on the Web I found an alternative that did work: click
    the Start button, type cmd in the search window, and then Ctrl-Shift-
    Enter.

    I've no idea why one form of running as administrator let me execute
    the Convert command and the other one didn't, but I'd like to know.
    Anyone have any ideas?


    --
    Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
    http://OakRoadSystems.com
    Shikata ga nai...
     
  2. Dave-UK

    Dave-UK Flightless Bird

    "Stan Brown" <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
    news:MPG.26d1d3aeb3c8a91a98c543@news.individual.net...
    > This is so bizarre that I thought I'd share.
    >
    > I wanted to convert an external drive to NTFS from FAT32. So I
    > right-clicked on "Command Prompt" in the Start menu, selected Run As
    > Administrator, then typed the Convert command.
    >
    > Bang "Access Denied" and a message that I must run in elevated mode
    > to do that command.
    >
    > Check Windows help. Advice is to right-click the command prompt and
    > do Run As Administrator, then type the command. Exactly what didn't
    > work, in other words.
    >
    > Fortunately, on the Web I found an alternative that did work: click
    > the Start button, type cmd in the search window, and then Ctrl-Shift-
    > Enter.
    >
    > I've no idea why one form of running as administrator let me execute
    > the Convert command and the other one didn't, but I'd like to know.
    > Anyone have any ideas?
    >
    >
    > --
    > Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
    > http://OakRoadSystems.com
    > Shikata ga nai...


    No idea really.
    When you select 'run as administrator' on the Start menu Command
    Prompt does the UAC dialog kick in ?
     
  3. Jeff Layman

    Jeff Layman Flightless Bird

    "Stan Brown" <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
    news:MPG.26d1d3aeb3c8a91a98c543@news.individual.net...
    > This is so bizarre that I thought I'd share.
    >
    > I wanted to convert an external drive to NTFS from FAT32. So I
    > right-clicked on "Command Prompt" in the Start menu, selected Run As
    > Administrator, then typed the Convert command.
    >
    > Bang "Access Denied" and a message that I must run in elevated mode
    > to do that command.
    >
    > Check Windows help. Advice is to right-click the command prompt and
    > do Run As Administrator, then type the command. Exactly what didn't
    > work, in other words.
    >
    > Fortunately, on the Web I found an alternative that did work: click
    > the Start button, type cmd in the search window, and then Ctrl-Shift-
    > Enter.
    >
    > I've no idea why one form of running as administrator let me execute
    > the Convert command and the other one didn't, but I'd like to know.
    > Anyone have any ideas?
    >
    >
    > --
    > Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
    > http://OakRoadSystems.com
    > Shikata ga nai...


    No idea, but there is a difference as you have found.

    Start menu | All Programs | Accessories | Command Prompt - right click and
    run as administrator:-
    Title line is "Administrator: Command Prompt"
    Command entry line is "C:/Windows\System32"

    Start button, type cmd in the search window, and then Ctrl-Shift-Enter:-
    Title line is "Administrator: C:/Windows\system32\cmd.exe
    Command entry line is "C:/Windows\System32"

    Start menu | All Programs | Accessories | Command Prompt and
    Ctrl-Shift-Enter:-
    Title line is "Command Prompt"
    Command entry line is "C:/Users\<me>" (ie the same as just left-clicking on
    Command Prompt)

    Why is there a difference in the title line with the first two when the
    command entry line is the same?

    --

    Jeff
     
  4. johnbee

    johnbee Flightless Bird

    "Stan Brown" <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
    news:MPG.26d1d3aeb3c8a91a98c543@news.individual.net...
    > This is so bizarre that I thought I'd share.
    >
    > I wanted to convert an external drive to NTFS from FAT32. So I
    > right-clicked on "Command Prompt" in the Start menu, selected Run As
    > Administrator, then typed the Convert command.
    >
    > Bang "Access Denied" and a message that I must run in elevated mode
    > to do that command.
    >
    > Check Windows help. Advice is to right-click the command prompt and
    > do Run As Administrator, then type the command. Exactly what didn't
    > work, in other words.
    >
    > Fortunately, on the Web I found an alternative that did work: click
    > the Start button, type cmd in the search window, and then Ctrl-Shift-
    > Enter.
    >
    > I've no idea why one form of running as administrator let me execute
    > the Convert command and the other one didn't, but I'd like to know.
    > Anyone have any ideas?
    >
    >
    > --
    > Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
    > http://OakRoadSystems.com
    > Shikata ga nai...


    Sorry if this is a bit basic for you, but 'running the command prompt' as an
    administrator is not at all the same as typing CMD in the start box and then
    right clicking CMD and running as administrator. So they won't do the same
    thing. Next time you do it, look at the window that opens for you to type
    in commands. Look especially at the blue band at the top: if the title
    starts with the word ADMINISTRATOR you've cracked elevation: if it doesn't
    you haven't.
     
  5. Dave-UK

    Dave-UK Flightless Bird

    "johnbee" <johnbrockbank@com.invalid> wrote in message
    news:i49ffm$ctc$1@news.eternal-september.org...
    >
    > "Stan Brown" <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
    > news:MPG.26d1d3aeb3c8a91a98c543@news.individual.net...
    >> This is so bizarre that I thought I'd share.
    >>
    >> I wanted to convert an external drive to NTFS from FAT32. So I
    >> right-clicked on "Command Prompt" in the Start menu, selected Run As
    >> Administrator, then typed the Convert command.
    >>
    >> Bang "Access Denied" and a message that I must run in elevated mode
    >> to do that command.
    >>
    >> Check Windows help. Advice is to right-click the command prompt and
    >> do Run As Administrator, then type the command. Exactly what didn't
    >> work, in other words.
    >>
    >> Fortunately, on the Web I found an alternative that did work: click
    >> the Start button, type cmd in the search window, and then Ctrl-Shift-
    >> Enter.
    >>
    >> I've no idea why one form of running as administrator let me execute
    >> the Convert command and the other one didn't, but I'd like to know.
    >> Anyone have any ideas?
    >>
    >>
    >> --
    >> Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
    >> http://OakRoadSystems.com
    >> Shikata ga nai...

    >
    > Sorry if this is a bit basic for you, but 'running the command prompt' as an administrator is not
    > at all the same as typing CMD in the start box and then right clicking CMD and running as
    > administrator. So they won't do the same thing. Next time you do it, look at the window that
    > opens for you to type in commands. Look especially at the blue band at the top: if the title
    > starts with the word ADMINISTRATOR you've cracked elevation: if it doesn't you haven't.


    I don't get any difference between running :
    Start > All programs > Accessories > Command Prompt as
    an administrator and right-clicking the Start search box cmd.exe and
    running as administrator. Which ever method I use I still end up with
    the title bar showing 'Administrator: '
     
  6. Seth

    Seth Flightless Bird

    "Stan Brown" <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
    news:MPG.26d1d3aeb3c8a91a98c543@news.individual.net...
    >
    > Fortunately, on the Web I found an alternative that did work: click
    > the Start button, type cmd in the search window, and then Ctrl-Shift-
    > Enter.
    >
    > I've no idea why one form of running as administrator let me execute
    > the Convert command and the other one didn't, but I'd like to know.
    > Anyone have any ideas?


    The difference wasn't the right-click/run-as vs. Ctrl-Shift-Enter but rather
    in the first instance you used the legacy "command" while in the 2nd (the
    one that worked) you used the newer version "cmd". The 2 processors behave
    very differently under different circumstances.

    I stopped using "command" years ago.
     
  7. Stan Brown

    Stan Brown Flightless Bird

    On Sun, 15 Aug 2010 17:18:30 +0100, Dave-UK wrote:
    >
    > "Stan Brown" <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
    > news:MPG.26d1d3aeb3c8a91a98c543@news.individual.net...
    > > This is so bizarre that I thought I'd share.
    > >
    > > I wanted to convert an external drive to NTFS from FAT32. So I
    > > right-clicked on "Command Prompt" in the Start menu, selected Run As
    > > Administrator, then typed the Convert command.
    > >
    > > Bang "Access Denied" and a message that I must run in elevated mode
    > > to do that command.

    >
    > No idea really.
    > When you select 'run as administrator' on the Start menu Command
    > Prompt does the UAC dialog kick in ?


    Yes, it does. "Do you want to allow the following program to make
    changes to this computer?"

    If I didn't mention it before, this is Home Premium and I'm using the
    default "Owner" account. I haven't messed with its privileges,
    though I have changed its name.



    --
    Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
    http://OakRoadSystems.com
    Shikata ga nai...
     
  8. Stan Brown

    Stan Brown Flightless Bird

    On Mon, 16 Aug 2010 09:10:24 +0100, Dave-UK wrote:
    >
    > "johnbee" <johnbrockbank@com.invalid> wrote in message
    > news:i49ffm$ctc$1@news.eternal-september.org...
    > >
    > > "Stan Brown" <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
    > > news:MPG.26d1d3aeb3c8a91a98c543@news.individual.net...
    > >> This is so bizarre that I thought I'd share.
    > >>
    > >> I wanted to convert an external drive to NTFS from FAT32. So I
    > >> right-clicked on "Command Prompt" in the Start menu, selected Run As
    > >> Administrator, then typed the Convert command.
    > >>
    > >> Bang "Access Denied" and a message that I must run in elevated mode
    > >> to do that command.
    > >>
    > >> Check Windows help. Advice is to right-click the command prompt and
    > >> do Run As Administrator, then type the command. Exactly what didn't
    > >> work, in other words.
    > >>
    > >> Fortunately, on the Web I found an alternative that did work: click
    > >> the Start button, type cmd in the search window, and then Ctrl-Shift-
    > >> Enter.
    > >>
    > >> I've no idea why one form of running as administrator let me execute
    > >> the Convert command and the other one didn't, but I'd like to know.
    > >> Anyone have any ideas?
    > >>

    > >
    > > Sorry if this is a bit basic for you, but 'running the command prompt' as an administrator is not
    > > at all the same as typing CMD in the start box and then right clicking CMD and running as
    > > administrator. So they won't do the same thing. Next time you do it, look at the window that
    > > opens for you to type in commands. Look especially at the blue band at the top: if the title
    > > starts with the word ADMINISTRATOR you've cracked elevation: if it doesn't you haven't.

    >
    > I don't get any difference between running :
    > Start > All programs > Accessories > Command Prompt as
    > an administrator and right-clicking the Start search box cmd.exe and
    > running as administrator. Which ever method I use I still end up with
    > the title bar showing 'Administrator: '


    And I do too. That was the problem: the command prompt was running
    as administrator (shown in title bar) but still "convert" said I
    needed to elevate privilege.

    Following Jeff's note, I compared the two. Like him, opening each way
    I got "Administrator" in the window title, but one showed the path to
    the executable and the other just showed "command prompt".

    I notice that Windows 7 no longer has a Runas command, so creating a
    shortcut to the command prompt run as administrator is out.

    --
    Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
    http://OakRoadSystems.com
    Shikata ga nai...
     
  9. Stan Brown

    Stan Brown Flightless Bird

    On Mon, 16 Aug 2010 07:00:57 -0400, Seth wrote:
    >
    > "Stan Brown" <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
    > news:MPG.26d1d3aeb3c8a91a98c543@news.individual.net...
    > >
    > > Fortunately, on the Web I found an alternative that did work: click
    > > the Start button, type cmd in the search window, and then Ctrl-Shift-
    > > Enter.
    > >
    > > I've no idea why one form of running as administrator let me execute
    > > the Convert command and the other one didn't, but I'd like to know.
    > > Anyone have any ideas?

    >
    > The difference wasn't the right-click/run-as vs. Ctrl-Shift-Enter but rather
    > in the first instance you used the legacy "command" while in the 2nd (the
    > one that worked) you used the newer version "cmd". The 2 processors behave
    > very differently under different circumstances.


    Thanks for posting, but I don't think that can be it. The "Command
    Prompt" shortcut in my Start Menu shows this as target when I right-
    click it and select Properties:

    %windir%\system32\cmd.exe

    and there is no "command.exe" in my Windows\System32 folder -- no
    "command.com" either, come to that.


    --
    Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
    http://OakRoadSystems.com
    Shikata ga nai...
     
  10. Seth

    Seth Flightless Bird

    "Stan Brown" <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
    news:MPG.26d2ed532542adb398c54e@news.individual.net...
    > On Mon, 16 Aug 2010 07:00:57 -0400, Seth wrote:
    >>
    >> "Stan Brown" <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote in message
    >> news:MPG.26d1d3aeb3c8a91a98c543@news.individual.net...
    >> >
    >> > Fortunately, on the Web I found an alternative that did work: click
    >> > the Start button, type cmd in the search window, and then Ctrl-Shift-
    >> > Enter.
    >> >
    >> > I've no idea why one form of running as administrator let me execute
    >> > the Convert command and the other one didn't, but I'd like to know.
    >> > Anyone have any ideas?

    >>
    >> The difference wasn't the right-click/run-as vs. Ctrl-Shift-Enter but
    >> rather
    >> in the first instance you used the legacy "command" while in the 2nd (the
    >> one that worked) you used the newer version "cmd". The 2 processors
    >> behave
    >> very differently under different circumstances.

    >
    > Thanks for posting, but I don't think that can be it. The "Command
    > Prompt" shortcut in my Start Menu shows this as target when I right-
    > click it and select Properties:
    >
    > %windir%\system32\cmd.exe
    >
    > and there is no "command.exe" in my Windows\System32 folder -- no
    > "command.com" either, come to that.


    I misread your description. I originally read it as you did a start-run
    "command" and then right clicked that, not that you right-clicked the
    "Command Prompt" icon.

    After thinking about it further, the only other difference I can think of is
    because of the "Start in" path. Depending on how you have your profile
    security setup the access denied may not have been for the attempt to run
    "convert.exe", but rather for trying to do anything in the path you were in.
    When CMD is run via the "search" box, the "Start in" properties aren't used
    and that could make a difference.

    Kind of how on some systems you attempt to right-click a file that's on a
    network resource and choose to "Run as administrator", that attempts to run
    something from a network resource using a local account that has no access.

    Also, the "Command Prompt" shortcut is physically located within your
    profile rather than a common location like the "cmd.exe" executable is.
     
  11. GTS-NJ

    GTS-NJ Flightless Bird


    > I notice that Windows 7 no longer has a Runas command, so creating a
    > shortcut to the command prompt run as administrator is out.
    >
    > --
    > Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
    > http://OakRoadSystems.com
    > Shikata ga nai...


    Not so. Click the Advanced button on the Shortcut tab to access the Run As
    Administrator check box.
     
  12. Percival P. Cassidy

    Percival P. Cassidy Flightless Bird

    On 08/16/10 04:10 am, Dave-UK wrote:

    > I don't get any difference between running :
    > Start > All programs > Accessories > Command Prompt as
    > an administrator and right-clicking the Start search box cmd.exe and
    > running as administrator. Which ever method I use I still end up with
    > the title bar showing 'Administrator: '


    I *think* you get command prompt with elevated privilege by pressing
    Shift-Enter or Control-Enter rather than just Enter.

    Perce
    (who uses Windows only when he absolutely must)
     
  13. Ignacio Shagnasty

    Ignacio Shagnasty Flightless Bird

    "Ibrahim Al-Qassam (Abdelaziz)" <IranWillRuleWorld@alibaba.ir> wrote in
    message news:i49glj$qm$1@news.eternal-september.org...
    > It is very bizzare.
    > Talk to Psychiatrist


    Why don't you give him your psychiatrist's number? Oh, you take up all his
    time. Never mind!
     
  14. Joe Morris

    Joe Morris Flightless Bird

    "Stan Brown" <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:

    [thread on when admin prompt isn't really elevated]

    > I notice that Windows 7 no longer has a Runas command, so creating a
    > shortcut to the command prompt run as administrator is out.


    It may be related to the particular version of win7 you're using, but on my
    system - 64-bit Windows 7 Enterprise - the RunAs command is alive and well,
    living in C:/Windows\System32, datestamped 13 July 2009, version
    6.1.7600.16385 .

    But that probably wouldn't help in the subject being discussed here; since
    it seems that all of the userids involved that people have been referring to
    are already local administrators, the issue is when the administrator
    *token* is held by a process.

    Testing in a virtual machine I created a small disk, formatted it FAT32, and
    tried running the Convert command. Starting the command window in a number
    of ways *all* got the token (after UAC requested permission), made
    C:/Windows\System32 the current folder, but did have different title bar
    text...but the CONVERT command ran successfully each time it was started in
    a window where the title bar was automatically populated with text beginning
    "Administrator:" and failed everywhere else.

    1/
    Type CMD into the search box, right-click the matching item at the top of
    the window, select "Run as Administrator".

    Title bar: Administrator: C:/Windows\System32\cmd.exe

    2/
    Click "All Programs", select Accessories, right-click "Command Prompt",
    select "Run as Administrator"

    Title bar: Administrator: Command Prompt

    3/
    Type CMD into the search box, then CTRL+SHIFT+ENTER

    Title bar: Administrator: C:/Windows\system32\cmd.exe

    [[ Note the slight difference in the title bar: "system32" vs.
    "System32". ]]


    4/
    Copy the "Command Prompt" shortcut in the START menu to the desktop, open
    the properties dialog, select "Run as Administrator". Double-click the
    icon.

    Title bar: Administrator: Admin Command Prompt

    [[ The string "Admin Command Prompt" is the name of the shortcut I put on
    the desktop ]]


    and as a final test, I created a new local account ("jcm") and added it to
    the local Administrators group. Open a normal command window and issue the
    command:

    runas /user:jcm cmd

    The title bar of the (new) window is

    cmd (running as WIN7-64-C\jcm)

    [[ WIN7-64-C is the hostname ]]

    and the current folder is C:/Windows\system32, but the process does NOT hold
    the administrator token (not surprising). Attempting to run CONVERT was
    quickly shot down with an access denied error message.


    Joe
     
  15. Stan Brown

    Stan Brown Flightless Bird

    On Mon, 16 Aug 2010 10:47:14 -0400, GTS-NJ wrote:
    >
    > > I notice that Windows 7 no longer has a Runas command, so creating a
    > > shortcut to the command prompt run as administrator is out.

    >
    > Not so. Click the Advanced button on the Shortcut tab to access the Run As
    > Administrator check box.


    There is indeed that check box. Unfortunately I no longer have a
    FAT32 drive, so I can't test whether it works like Ctrl-Shift-Enter
    (elevating privilege) or like right-clicking and selecting Run As
    Administrator (without elevating privilege).

    Please quote properly: identify the previous poster (which was em in
    this case), and trim away the signature and all else irrelevant to
    your follow-up.

    --
    Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
    http://OakRoadSystems.com
    Shikata ga nai...
     
  16. Stan Brown

    Stan Brown Flightless Bird

    On Mon, 16 Aug 2010 08:34:32 -0400, Seth wrote:
    > After thinking about it further, the only other difference I can think of is
    > because of the "Start in" path. Depending on how you have your profile
    > security setup the access denied may not have been for the attempt to run
    > "convert.exe", but rather for trying to do anything in the path you were in.
    > When CMD is run via the "search" box, the "Start in" properties aren't used
    > and that could make a difference.


    When I right-click the Start Menu shortcut and select Run As
    Administrator, it opens in C:/Windows\system32 (lower-case system32)
    with a window title of Administrator: Command Prompt.

    When I make a copy of that shortcut on my desktop and check the "Run
    As Administrator" box in Properties » Advanced, then click the edited
    icon, the opening directory and title are the same as above.

    When I search cmd and hit Ctrl-Shift-Enter, it opens in the same
    folder, even including the lower-case s, but the window title is
    Administrator: C:/Windows\system32\cmd.exe

    In each of the three cases I do get the prompt about allowing the
    command to make changes to my computer.

    --
    Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
    http://OakRoadSystems.com
    Shikata ga nai...
     

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