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Blue Screen During XP Installation

Discussion in 'Windows XP' started by Thomas M., Mar 17, 2010.

  1. Thomas M.

    Thomas M. Flightless Bird

    XP Pro with SP2

    Sorry about the length of this post. I simply wanted to provide as much
    background information on the problem as possible.

    I've recently been fighting a problem on my Mom's computer. The machine
    periodically freezes (There is no blue screen at this point). Sometimes it
    will run a couple of hours and other times it will run only 10 or 15 minutes
    before freezing. When it freezes the only option is to power off and
    restart. On the restart the machine will run Chkdsk, which it sometimes is
    unable to complete. It behaves this way with Safe Mode as well. I was able
    to take a look at the event log and saw a bunch of hard disk errors, one of
    which indicated that the driver is reporting an imminent hard drive failure,
    which I can believe given the behavior of the machine.

    I ordered a new 500 GB hard drive, but since my Mom's machine uses SATA and
    my machine used IDE, the only way I had to initialize and format the drive
    was to install it as a secondary drive in the problem machine. I was able
    to initialize and format the drive. I then inserted an XP SP2 installation
    CD and attempted to install XP to the new drive. The initial steps of the
    setup program ran, but before it got to the part where you select the volume
    on which to install XP, the setup program blue screened. I was not able to
    get the new hard drive to be recognized by the machine after that happened.

    So I thought that maybe the problem was a memory chip, drive controller, or
    even the motherboard in the problem machine. To eliminate those
    possibilities I purchased an external drive enclosure that would allow my
    machine with IDE drives to use a SATA drive via a USB cable. But the new
    hard drive was not recognized in the drive enclosure either. Thinking that
    maybe I just had some bad luck and got a defective drive, I took the drive
    back to the store and exchanged it for another drive.

    I then hooked up the new drive to my machine using the drive enclosure.
    Again, I initialized and formatted the drive. I then attempted to install
    XP SP2--using a different CD this time--and again the setup program blue
    screened. So, with an entirely different machine, different hard drive, and
    different installation CD, I got the same result--a blue screen during
    installation.

    Now I am wondering if I am hitting a bug in the XP installation process.
    Maybe it doesn't like installing to a secondary drive, or to a USB drive, or
    maybe it doesn't like hard drive partitions larger than a certain size or
    something. At this point, my only option is to install the blank hard drive
    into the problem machine as the only drive and try installing again. I did
    not do that initially because the problem had not been diagnosed for certain
    and I wanted to eliminate the possibility of memory chip, drive controller,
    and circuit board problems, but I don't see where I have any choice now.

    Can anyone explain why the setup program would blue screen in two different
    machine machines using different hard drives and installation CDs?

    --Tom
     
  2. Mark Adams

    Mark Adams Flightless Bird

    "Thomas M." wrote:

    > XP Pro with SP2
    >
    > Sorry about the length of this post. I simply wanted to provide as much
    > background information on the problem as possible.
    >
    > I've recently been fighting a problem on my Mom's computer. The machine
    > periodically freezes (There is no blue screen at this point). Sometimes it
    > will run a couple of hours and other times it will run only 10 or 15 minutes
    > before freezing. When it freezes the only option is to power off and
    > restart. On the restart the machine will run Chkdsk, which it sometimes is
    > unable to complete. It behaves this way with Safe Mode as well. I was able
    > to take a look at the event log and saw a bunch of hard disk errors, one of
    > which indicated that the driver is reporting an imminent hard drive failure,
    > which I can believe given the behavior of the machine.
    >
    > I ordered a new 500 GB hard drive, but since my Mom's machine uses SATA and
    > my machine used IDE, the only way I had to initialize and format the drive
    > was to install it as a secondary drive in the problem machine. I was able
    > to initialize and format the drive. I then inserted an XP SP2 installation
    > CD and attempted to install XP to the new drive. The initial steps of the
    > setup program ran, but before it got to the part where you select the volume
    > on which to install XP, the setup program blue screened. I was not able to
    > get the new hard drive to be recognized by the machine after that happened.
    >


    You said the problem machine has a SATA drive. Is the new drive SATA also?
    Remove the drive from the problem machine and install the new drive to the
    same SATA port. Set the BIOS to boot from CD. Use the partitioning,
    formatting, and cloning software CD that came with the drive to reformat it.
    Delete any partitions there, then recreate a new partition. Format the drive
    NTFS. When the format is complete, shut the machine down and replace the
    original drive to the original SATA port. Now attach the new drive to another
    available SATA port and boot the machine again with the software CD and use
    the cloning feature to clone the old drive to the new drive. Shut the machine
    down and remove the old drive and attach the SATA cable from the new drive to
    the original SATA port. The machine should now boot on the new drive.

    If the old drive is so hosed that the machine continues to bluescreen
    whenever it is attached; I would remove it and put the new drive in the
    machine on the primary SATA port, repartition and reformat it as before and
    install XP directly to it. If it bluescreens because you need to install a
    SATA driver from a floppy drive and you don't have one, slipstream SP3 into
    your SP2 install CD. From what I understand, SP3 contains SATA drivers, and
    slipstreamed install disk should install without a floppy drive.

    > So I thought that maybe the problem was a memory chip, drive controller, or
    > even the motherboard in the problem machine. To eliminate those
    > possibilities I purchased an external drive enclosure that would allow my
    > machine with IDE drives to use a SATA drive via a USB cable. But the new
    > hard drive was not recognized in the drive enclosure either. Thinking that
    > maybe I just had some bad luck and got a defective drive, I took the drive
    > back to the store and exchanged it for another drive.
    >
    > I then hooked up the new drive to my machine using the drive enclosure.
    > Again, I initialized and formatted the drive. I then attempted to install
    > XP SP2--using a different CD this time--and again the setup program blue
    > screened. So, with an entirely different machine, different hard drive, and
    > different installation CD, I got the same result--a blue screen during
    > installation.
    >
    > Now I am wondering if I am hitting a bug in the XP installation process.
    > Maybe it doesn't like installing to a secondary drive, or to a USB drive, or
    > maybe it doesn't like hard drive partitions larger than a certain size or
    > something. At this point, my only option is to install the blank hard drive
    > into the problem machine as the only drive and try installing again. I did
    > not do that initially because the problem had not been diagnosed for certain
    > and I wanted to eliminate the possibility of memory chip, drive controller,
    > and circuit board problems, but I don't see where I have any choice now.
    >
    > Can anyone explain why the setup program would blue screen in two different
    > machine machines using different hard drives and installation CDs?
    >
    > --Tom
    >
    >
    > .
    >
     
  3. Thomas M.

    Thomas M. Flightless Bird

    Thanks for the reply.

    Yes, the new drive that I purchased is SATA. However, the XP installation
    CDs that I have been using were created on an older machine with IDE drives.
    I have SP3 on a CD, but I don't think it's bootable. My plan was to install
    XP with SP2 and then immediately patch to SP3, but if the blue screens are
    the result of a SATA driver issue, then maybe I will need to slipstream SP3
    as you suggested. I did not even think about that. Thanks for the tip!

    I originally thought of cloning, but decided against it because I thought
    that might clone corrupt files onto the new drive. I don't have a lot of
    experience with cloning, so I really don't know if that's something to worry
    about or not, but I decided not to risk it.

    I agree that my best option at this point seems to be installing the new
    SATA drive as primary and then installing XP direct to the new drive. I
    avoided that at first because I wasn't entirely convinced that the existing
    hard drive was the problem. I even considered that the drive could be
    getting zapped by power somehow, which is why I didn't want to risk a new
    drive in the system until I felt more comfortable that other hardware
    components had been eliminated from the list of suspects. That seems to be
    the case now, so I'm more comfortable with putting the new drive into the
    machine.

    --Tom

    "Mark Adams" <MarkAdams@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
    news:14026869-3A9F-4D3D-AC0B-4C72DF1BA61D@microsoft.com...
    >
    >
    > "Thomas M." wrote:
    >
    >> XP Pro with SP2
    >>
    >> Sorry about the length of this post. I simply wanted to provide as much
    >> background information on the problem as possible.
    >>
    >> I've recently been fighting a problem on my Mom's computer. The machine
    >> periodically freezes (There is no blue screen at this point). Sometimes
    >> it
    >> will run a couple of hours and other times it will run only 10 or 15
    >> minutes
    >> before freezing. When it freezes the only option is to power off and
    >> restart. On the restart the machine will run Chkdsk, which it sometimes
    >> is
    >> unable to complete. It behaves this way with Safe Mode as well. I was
    >> able
    >> to take a look at the event log and saw a bunch of hard disk errors, one
    >> of
    >> which indicated that the driver is reporting an imminent hard drive
    >> failure,
    >> which I can believe given the behavior of the machine.
    >>
    >> I ordered a new 500 GB hard drive, but since my Mom's machine uses SATA
    >> and
    >> my machine used IDE, the only way I had to initialize and format the
    >> drive
    >> was to install it as a secondary drive in the problem machine. I was
    >> able
    >> to initialize and format the drive. I then inserted an XP SP2
    >> installation
    >> CD and attempted to install XP to the new drive. The initial steps of
    >> the
    >> setup program ran, but before it got to the part where you select the
    >> volume
    >> on which to install XP, the setup program blue screened. I was not able
    >> to
    >> get the new hard drive to be recognized by the machine after that
    >> happened.
    >>

    >
    > You said the problem machine has a SATA drive. Is the new drive SATA also?
    > Remove the drive from the problem machine and install the new drive to the
    > same SATA port. Set the BIOS to boot from CD. Use the partitioning,
    > formatting, and cloning software CD that came with the drive to reformat
    > it.
    > Delete any partitions there, then recreate a new partition. Format the
    > drive
    > NTFS. When the format is complete, shut the machine down and replace the
    > original drive to the original SATA port. Now attach the new drive to
    > another
    > available SATA port and boot the machine again with the software CD and
    > use
    > the cloning feature to clone the old drive to the new drive. Shut the
    > machine
    > down and remove the old drive and attach the SATA cable from the new drive
    > to
    > the original SATA port. The machine should now boot on the new drive.
    >
    > If the old drive is so hosed that the machine continues to bluescreen
    > whenever it is attached; I would remove it and put the new drive in the
    > machine on the primary SATA port, repartition and reformat it as before
    > and
    > install XP directly to it. If it bluescreens because you need to install a
    > SATA driver from a floppy drive and you don't have one, slipstream SP3
    > into
    > your SP2 install CD. From what I understand, SP3 contains SATA drivers,
    > and
    > slipstreamed install disk should install without a floppy drive.
    >
    >> So I thought that maybe the problem was a memory chip, drive controller,
    >> or
    >> even the motherboard in the problem machine. To eliminate those
    >> possibilities I purchased an external drive enclosure that would allow my
    >> machine with IDE drives to use a SATA drive via a USB cable. But the new
    >> hard drive was not recognized in the drive enclosure either. Thinking
    >> that
    >> maybe I just had some bad luck and got a defective drive, I took the
    >> drive
    >> back to the store and exchanged it for another drive.
    >>
    >> I then hooked up the new drive to my machine using the drive enclosure.
    >> Again, I initialized and formatted the drive. I then attempted to
    >> install
    >> XP SP2--using a different CD this time--and again the setup program blue
    >> screened. So, with an entirely different machine, different hard drive,
    >> and
    >> different installation CD, I got the same result--a blue screen during
    >> installation.
    >>
    >> Now I am wondering if I am hitting a bug in the XP installation process.
    >> Maybe it doesn't like installing to a secondary drive, or to a USB drive,
    >> or
    >> maybe it doesn't like hard drive partitions larger than a certain size or
    >> something. At this point, my only option is to install the blank hard
    >> drive
    >> into the problem machine as the only drive and try installing again. I
    >> did
    >> not do that initially because the problem had not been diagnosed for
    >> certain
    >> and I wanted to eliminate the possibility of memory chip, drive
    >> controller,
    >> and circuit board problems, but I don't see where I have any choice now.
    >>
    >> Can anyone explain why the setup program would blue screen in two
    >> different
    >> machine machines using different hard drives and installation CDs?
    >>
    >> --Tom
    >>
    >>
    >> .
    >>
     
  4. Anna

    Anna Flightless Bird

    "Thomas M." <NoEmailReplies@Please.com> wrote in message
    news:e95io$fxKHA.5576@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
    > XP Pro with SP2
    >
    > Sorry about the length of this post. I simply wanted to provide as much
    > background information on the problem as possible.
    >
    > I've recently been fighting a problem on my Mom's computer. The machine
    > periodically freezes (There is no blue screen at this point). Sometimes
    > it will run a couple of hours and other times it will run only 10 or 15
    > minutes before freezing. When it freezes the only option is to power off
    > and restart. On the restart the machine will run Chkdsk, which it
    > sometimes is unable to complete. It behaves this way with Safe Mode as
    > well. I was able to take a look at the event log and saw a bunch of hard
    > disk errors, one of which indicated that the driver is reporting an
    > imminent hard drive failure, which I can believe given the behavior of the
    > machine.
    >
    > I ordered a new 500 GB hard drive, but since my Mom's machine uses SATA
    > and my machine used IDE, the only way I had to initialize and format the
    > drive was to install it as a secondary drive in the problem machine. I
    > was able to initialize and format the drive. I then inserted an XP SP2
    > installation CD and attempted to install XP to the new drive. The initial
    > steps of the setup program ran, but before it got to the part where you
    > select the volume on which to install XP, the setup program blue screened.
    > I was not able to get the new hard drive to be recognized by the machine
    > after that happened.
    >
    > So I thought that maybe the problem was a memory chip, drive controller,
    > or even the motherboard in the problem machine. To eliminate those
    > possibilities I purchased an external drive enclosure that would allow my
    > machine with IDE drives to use a SATA drive via a USB cable. But the new
    > hard drive was not recognized in the drive enclosure either. Thinking
    > that maybe I just had some bad luck and got a defective drive, I took the
    > drive back to the store and exchanged it for another drive.
    >
    > I then hooked up the new drive to my machine using the drive enclosure.
    > Again, I initialized and formatted the drive. I then attempted to install
    > XP SP2--using a different CD this time--and again the setup program blue
    > screened. So, with an entirely different machine, different hard drive,
    > and different installation CD, I got the same result--a blue screen during
    > installation.
    >
    > Now I am wondering if I am hitting a bug in the XP installation process.
    > Maybe it doesn't like installing to a secondary drive, or to a USB drive,
    > or maybe it doesn't like hard drive partitions larger than a certain size
    > or something. At this point, my only option is to install the blank hard
    > drive into the problem machine as the only drive and try installing again.
    > I did not do that initially because the problem had not been diagnosed for
    > certain and I wanted to eliminate the possibility of memory chip, drive
    > controller, and circuit board problems, but I don't see where I have any
    > choice now.
    >
    > Can anyone explain why the setup program would blue screen in two
    > different machine machines using different hard drives and installation
    > CDs?
    >
    > --Tom


    Tom later adds...
    > Yes, the new drive that I purchased is SATA. However, the XP installation
    > CDs that I have been using were created on an older machine with IDE
    > drives. I have SP3 on a CD, but I don't think it's bootable. My plan was
    > to install XP with SP2 and then immediately patch to SP3, but if the blue
    > screens are the result of a SATA driver issue, then maybe I will need to
    > slipstream SP3 as you suggested. I did not even think about that. Thanks
    > for the tip!
    >
    > I originally thought of cloning, but decided against it because I thought
    > that might clone corrupt files onto the new drive. I don't have a lot of
    > experience with cloning, so I really don't know if that's something to
    > worry about or not, but I decided not to risk it.
    >
    > I agree that my best option at this point seems to be installing the new
    > SATA drive as primary and then installing XP direct to the new drive. I
    > avoided that at first because I wasn't entirely convinced that the
    > existing hard drive was the problem. I even considered that the drive
    > could be getting zapped by power somehow, which is why I didn't want to
    > risk a new drive in the system until I felt more comfortable that other
    > hardware components had been eliminated from the list of suspects. That
    > seems to be the case now, so I'm more comfortable with putting the new
    > drive into the machine.
    >
    > --Tom



    Tom...
    First - taking the problem with your inability to install the XP OS using
    *your* PC...
    The HDD was installed as a USB-connected device and ordinarily the XP OS
    cannot be installed on a USB-connected HDD. (There's at least one exception
    to performing this "feat", but it's not relevant in this situation).

    With respect to your mom's machine...

    It's possible that the problem you describe is hardware-related but that's
    not definitive by any means.

    Re your attempt to install the OS onto that 500 GB HDD...

    It's generally best *not* to partition/format the HDD prior to undertaking
    the XP OS setup program. The partitioning/formatting process is best
    undertaken as an integral part of the OS installation (setup) process. But
    (usually) there's no real harm in partitioning/formatting the disk prior to
    the setup process.

    We're assuming that the new HDD was properly connected to the appropriate
    SATA (first) connector on the motherboard and that the old HDD (together
    with any other storage device(s)) was disconnected from the machine. And
    that the disk's power/data cables were securely connected.

    You've indicated that the system "blue screened" at the point of the setup
    process where one would normally select the partition on which to install
    the OS. Can we assume you've repeated the setup process and always with the
    identical result? In other words the XP "setup" files are *always* installed
    apparently without a problem and you get to the "Welcome..." screen without
    any problems, yes? And when you then press the Enter key to install the OS,
    no error message(s) at that point are forthcoming, yes?

    What I'm trying to get at re the above paragraph is that you're certain that
    you do *not* get a message at the beginning of the setup process that "XP
    cannot find any hard disks installed" (or words to that effect), right? So
    that all you get is that BSOD? Any info on that "blue screen" that's a clue
    as to what the problem is?

    It's doubtful whether any SATA controller driver issue is involved here. If
    that were the case you would get the message mentioned in the above
    paragraph.

    Re your last post...
    The fact that your XP OS installation CD was "created" on an IDE (PATA) HDD
    is of no significance. But what do you mean by "created"? The CD is not an
    original MS commercially-issued XP OS CD? Or do you mean "created" in the
    sense that you slipstreamed SP2 onto a CD to "create" an XP OS installation
    CD containing SP2?

    I think you're right about foregoing the disk-cloning process at this point.
    You've got to first resolve this issue as to why you're unable to
    fresh-install the OS onto the new HDD. Once that problem has been resolved,
    then you can consider a disk-cloning process assuming you're not dealing
    with a corrupted already-installed OS on the old HDD.

    Now as I re:read your last post I'm at a loss to understand your final
    paragraph where you say "I agree that my best option at this point seems to
    be installing the new SATA drive as primary and then installing XP direct to
    the new drive. I avoided that at first because I wasn't entirely convinced
    that the existing hard drive was the problem".

    But wasn't (isn't) that the problem you've related, i.e., that you attempted
    to install the XP OS onto that drive in your mother's PC but couldn't do so
    because of that "blue screen"?

    Sorry, I guess I'm a little slow today. I now realize that the old HDD was
    apparently connected at the time of your attempt to install the OS onto the
    new HDD. Is that right? As I inferred above it's always best practice
    (whenever practical) to disconnect all storage devices, HDDs, flash drives,
    etc. when installing the OS. Anyway, hopefully you should be able to
    fresh-install the OS onto the 500 GB HDD. Again, install it to the first
    SATA connector on the motherboard. Then, of course, work with that drive to
    determine whether the "blue screen" problem continues to exist. If it does,
    then the problem would appear to be hardware related.

    In the meantime you might want to check out the old HDD with the HDD
    diagnostic utility usually available via a download from the disk's
    manufacturer.
    Anna
     
  5. Thomas M.

    Thomas M. Flightless Bird

    Mark,

    Just thought that I'd follow up and let you know that I tried installing
    from a CD with SP3 slipstreamed, and I got the blue screen again, so
    apparently that is not the issue.

    I am going to be posting a response to Anna if you care to follow this
    thread any further.

    --Tom

    "Thomas M." <NoEmailReplies@Please.com> wrote in message
    news:ufrY0OhxKHA.3304@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
    > Thanks for the reply.
    >
    > Yes, the new drive that I purchased is SATA. However, the XP installation
    > CDs that I have been using were created on an older machine with IDE
    > drives. I have SP3 on a CD, but I don't think it's bootable. My plan was
    > to install XP with SP2 and then immediately patch to SP3, but if the blue
    > screens are the result of a SATA driver issue, then maybe I will need to
    > slipstream SP3 as you suggested. I did not even think about that. Thanks
    > for the tip!
    >
    > I originally thought of cloning, but decided against it because I thought
    > that might clone corrupt files onto the new drive. I don't have a lot of
    > experience with cloning, so I really don't know if that's something to
    > worry about or not, but I decided not to risk it.
    >
    > I agree that my best option at this point seems to be installing the new
    > SATA drive as primary and then installing XP direct to the new drive. I
    > avoided that at first because I wasn't entirely convinced that the
    > existing hard drive was the problem. I even considered that the drive
    > could be getting zapped by power somehow, which is why I didn't want to
    > risk a new drive in the system until I felt more comfortable that other
    > hardware components had been eliminated from the list of suspects. That
    > seems to be the case now, so I'm more comfortable with putting the new
    > drive into the machine.
    >
    > --Tom
    >
    > "Mark Adams" <MarkAdams@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
    > news:14026869-3A9F-4D3D-AC0B-4C72DF1BA61D@microsoft.com...
    >>
    >>
    >> "Thomas M." wrote:
    >>
    >>> XP Pro with SP2
    >>>
    >>> Sorry about the length of this post. I simply wanted to provide as much
    >>> background information on the problem as possible.
    >>>
    >>> I've recently been fighting a problem on my Mom's computer. The machine
    >>> periodically freezes (There is no blue screen at this point). Sometimes
    >>> it
    >>> will run a couple of hours and other times it will run only 10 or 15
    >>> minutes
    >>> before freezing. When it freezes the only option is to power off and
    >>> restart. On the restart the machine will run Chkdsk, which it sometimes
    >>> is
    >>> unable to complete. It behaves this way with Safe Mode as well. I was
    >>> able
    >>> to take a look at the event log and saw a bunch of hard disk errors, one
    >>> of
    >>> which indicated that the driver is reporting an imminent hard drive
    >>> failure,
    >>> which I can believe given the behavior of the machine.
    >>>
    >>> I ordered a new 500 GB hard drive, but since my Mom's machine uses SATA
    >>> and
    >>> my machine used IDE, the only way I had to initialize and format the
    >>> drive
    >>> was to install it as a secondary drive in the problem machine. I was
    >>> able
    >>> to initialize and format the drive. I then inserted an XP SP2
    >>> installation
    >>> CD and attempted to install XP to the new drive. The initial steps of
    >>> the
    >>> setup program ran, but before it got to the part where you select the
    >>> volume
    >>> on which to install XP, the setup program blue screened. I was not able
    >>> to
    >>> get the new hard drive to be recognized by the machine after that
    >>> happened.
    >>>

    >>
    >> You said the problem machine has a SATA drive. Is the new drive SATA
    >> also?
    >> Remove the drive from the problem machine and install the new drive to
    >> the
    >> same SATA port. Set the BIOS to boot from CD. Use the partitioning,
    >> formatting, and cloning software CD that came with the drive to reformat
    >> it.
    >> Delete any partitions there, then recreate a new partition. Format the
    >> drive
    >> NTFS. When the format is complete, shut the machine down and replace the
    >> original drive to the original SATA port. Now attach the new drive to
    >> another
    >> available SATA port and boot the machine again with the software CD and
    >> use
    >> the cloning feature to clone the old drive to the new drive. Shut the
    >> machine
    >> down and remove the old drive and attach the SATA cable from the new
    >> drive to
    >> the original SATA port. The machine should now boot on the new drive.
    >>
    >> If the old drive is so hosed that the machine continues to bluescreen
    >> whenever it is attached; I would remove it and put the new drive in the
    >> machine on the primary SATA port, repartition and reformat it as before
    >> and
    >> install XP directly to it. If it bluescreens because you need to install
    >> a
    >> SATA driver from a floppy drive and you don't have one, slipstream SP3
    >> into
    >> your SP2 install CD. From what I understand, SP3 contains SATA drivers,
    >> and
    >> slipstreamed install disk should install without a floppy drive.
    >>
    >>> So I thought that maybe the problem was a memory chip, drive controller,
    >>> or
    >>> even the motherboard in the problem machine. To eliminate those
    >>> possibilities I purchased an external drive enclosure that would allow
    >>> my
    >>> machine with IDE drives to use a SATA drive via a USB cable. But the
    >>> new
    >>> hard drive was not recognized in the drive enclosure either. Thinking
    >>> that
    >>> maybe I just had some bad luck and got a defective drive, I took the
    >>> drive
    >>> back to the store and exchanged it for another drive.
    >>>
    >>> I then hooked up the new drive to my machine using the drive enclosure.
    >>> Again, I initialized and formatted the drive. I then attempted to
    >>> install
    >>> XP SP2--using a different CD this time--and again the setup program blue
    >>> screened. So, with an entirely different machine, different hard drive,
    >>> and
    >>> different installation CD, I got the same result--a blue screen during
    >>> installation.
    >>>
    >>> Now I am wondering if I am hitting a bug in the XP installation process.
    >>> Maybe it doesn't like installing to a secondary drive, or to a USB
    >>> drive, or
    >>> maybe it doesn't like hard drive partitions larger than a certain size
    >>> or
    >>> something. At this point, my only option is to install the blank hard
    >>> drive
    >>> into the problem machine as the only drive and try installing again. I
    >>> did
    >>> not do that initially because the problem had not been diagnosed for
    >>> certain
    >>> and I wanted to eliminate the possibility of memory chip, drive
    >>> controller,
    >>> and circuit board problems, but I don't see where I have any choice now.
    >>>
    >>> Can anyone explain why the setup program would blue screen in two
    >>> different
    >>> machine machines using different hard drives and installation CDs?
    >>>
    >>> --Tom
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> .
    >>>

    >
    >
     
  6. Thomas M.

    Thomas M. Flightless Bird

    Anna,

    I'll try to reply to as many of your questions as possible.

    The symptom with my mom's PC is that it periodically freezes. When this
    happens there are no error messages and the keyboard and mouse stop
    responding, so the only option is to power off. My first gut reaction is
    that there is an issue with a memory chip or slot, or maybe the motherboard.
    The reason that I started to focus on the HD is that I found error messages
    in the Event log indicating that the HD is in danger of imminent failure and
    should be replaced immediately. I took that message at face value and
    immediately backed up the data to an SD card (the only option I had at that
    moment). I've learned not to press my luck with HD issues, so I purchased a
    new HD as a replacement.

    As a quick aside, I have since learned that the original HD is indeed in bad
    shape. I ran chkdsk and picked up all kinds of errors. Chkdsk was able to
    fix them all, but the sure number of errors does not bode well for the
    overall health of the original HD. Still, I can't help but feel that there
    is something else going on. In fact, maybe the HD problem was *caused* by a
    deeper hardware issue.

    My first effort to install XP to the new HD was with the original HD still
    in the system as the primary drive and the new HD as secondary. This is the
    first time that I've ever attempted that. Usually I just pull the failing
    HD, insert the new one, let the setup program handle formatting, and call it
    good. However, since the original HD still limps along I thought that if I
    could install the OS to the new HD connected as a secondary drive that I
    could then drag and drop data over and be done. Plus, I kind of wanted to
    try installing the OS to a secondary drive just because I had never tried
    that before.

    When the installation blue screened I thought maybe that was caused by a
    deeper problem with the machine (memory chip, motherboard, power, etc.) and
    that I could get around that by connecting the new HD to another machine and
    installing the OS that way, and then just swapping out the drives in my
    mom's machine. The problem with that is that my machine uses IDE drives so
    the only option I had for connecting the new SATA drive to my older IDE
    machine was with a USB drive enclosure. I didn't know if that would work,
    but I thought I'd give it a try. The XP setup program does allow me to
    select the new HD when it's connected as a USB drive, but I haven't been
    able to get that option to work.

    I then researched the causes of blue screens during XP installations, and
    the causes seem to run from a bad installation CD to problems with memory,
    memory slots, power, etc. I have a couple of different installation CDs
    that I tried just to rule out the possibility of a bad CD. I do have an
    original XP Pro CD (which I also tried and with the same results), but for
    the most part the CDs that I've been using are disks that I made with
    slipstreamed service packs. My reference to having made the CDs on a
    machine using IDE drives was only to indicate that the CDs are 2 or 3 years
    old, and therefore may not contain SATA drivers. I realize now that I was
    not clear on that point, and I've come to the conclusion that the issue is
    not with SATA drivers anyway.

    As for the content of the blue screen, it just indicates that there was a
    problem and lists some basic troubleshooting steps, like running chkdsk,
    check the drive connections and power cables, etc. I've swapped out
    internal hard drives hundreds of times and so I know to check all that
    stuff. All the connections are solid. There's something else going on
    here.

    The latest news is that I installed the new HD in my mom's machine as the
    primary drive and removed the old HD entirely, and then tried to install XP
    to the new HD. Again, it blue screened on me. So I thought that I would
    try to eliminate the memory chips and slots as a source of the problem. The
    system has two 1 GB chips and I tried the installation with each chip
    installed individually and with both installed, and I rotated them between
    slots as well. After each change the XP installation blue screened. So now
    I am thinking that the problem is with the power supply (Maybe it's not
    producing a smooth flow of power) or the motherboard.

    On the plus side, I found that there are 169 days left on the warranty.
    Since it doesn't seem like just a HD replacement at this point, I've
    encouraged my mom to have the machine fixed under warranty.

    --Tom


    "Anna" <myname@myisp.net> wrote in message
    news:%23oNTXcixKHA.3408@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
    >
    > "Thomas M." <NoEmailReplies@Please.com> wrote in message
    > news:e95io$fxKHA.5576@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
    >> XP Pro with SP2
    >>
    >> Sorry about the length of this post. I simply wanted to provide as much
    >> background information on the problem as possible.
    >>
    >> I've recently been fighting a problem on my Mom's computer. The machine
    >> periodically freezes (There is no blue screen at this point). Sometimes
    >> it will run a couple of hours and other times it will run only 10 or 15
    >> minutes before freezing. When it freezes the only option is to power off
    >> and restart. On the restart the machine will run Chkdsk, which it
    >> sometimes is unable to complete. It behaves this way with Safe Mode as
    >> well. I was able to take a look at the event log and saw a bunch of hard
    >> disk errors, one of which indicated that the driver is reporting an
    >> imminent hard drive failure, which I can believe given the behavior of
    >> the machine.
    >>
    >> I ordered a new 500 GB hard drive, but since my Mom's machine uses SATA
    >> and my machine used IDE, the only way I had to initialize and format the
    >> drive was to install it as a secondary drive in the problem machine. I
    >> was able to initialize and format the drive. I then inserted an XP SP2
    >> installation CD and attempted to install XP to the new drive. The
    >> initial steps of the setup program ran, but before it got to the part
    >> where you select the volume on which to install XP, the setup program
    >> blue screened. I was not able to get the new hard drive to be recognized
    >> by the machine after that happened.
    >>
    >> So I thought that maybe the problem was a memory chip, drive controller,
    >> or even the motherboard in the problem machine. To eliminate those
    >> possibilities I purchased an external drive enclosure that would allow my
    >> machine with IDE drives to use a SATA drive via a USB cable. But the new
    >> hard drive was not recognized in the drive enclosure either. Thinking
    >> that maybe I just had some bad luck and got a defective drive, I took the
    >> drive back to the store and exchanged it for another drive.
    >>
    >> I then hooked up the new drive to my machine using the drive enclosure.
    >> Again, I initialized and formatted the drive. I then attempted to
    >> install XP SP2--using a different CD this time--and again the setup
    >> program blue screened. So, with an entirely different machine, different
    >> hard drive, and different installation CD, I got the same result--a blue
    >> screen during installation.
    >>
    >> Now I am wondering if I am hitting a bug in the XP installation process.
    >> Maybe it doesn't like installing to a secondary drive, or to a USB drive,
    >> or maybe it doesn't like hard drive partitions larger than a certain size
    >> or something. At this point, my only option is to install the blank hard
    >> drive into the problem machine as the only drive and try installing
    >> again. I did not do that initially because the problem had not been
    >> diagnosed for certain and I wanted to eliminate the possibility of memory
    >> chip, drive controller, and circuit board problems, but I don't see where
    >> I have any choice now.
    >>
    >> Can anyone explain why the setup program would blue screen in two
    >> different machine machines using different hard drives and installation
    >> CDs?
    >>
    >> --Tom

    >
    > Tom later adds...
    >> Yes, the new drive that I purchased is SATA. However, the XP
    >> installation CDs that I have been using were created on an older machine
    >> with IDE drives. I have SP3 on a CD, but I don't think it's bootable. My
    >> plan was to install XP with SP2 and then immediately patch to SP3, but if
    >> the blue screens are the result of a SATA driver issue, then maybe I will
    >> need to slipstream SP3 as you suggested. I did not even think about
    >> that. Thanks for the tip!
    >>
    >> I originally thought of cloning, but decided against it because I thought
    >> that might clone corrupt files onto the new drive. I don't have a lot of
    >> experience with cloning, so I really don't know if that's something to
    >> worry about or not, but I decided not to risk it.
    >>
    >> I agree that my best option at this point seems to be installing the new
    >> SATA drive as primary and then installing XP direct to the new drive. I
    >> avoided that at first because I wasn't entirely convinced that the
    >> existing hard drive was the problem. I even considered that the drive
    >> could be getting zapped by power somehow, which is why I didn't want to
    >> risk a new drive in the system until I felt more comfortable that other
    >> hardware components had been eliminated from the list of suspects. That
    >> seems to be the case now, so I'm more comfortable with putting the new
    >> drive into the machine.
    >>
    >> --Tom

    >
    >
    > Tom...
    > First - taking the problem with your inability to install the XP OS using
    > *your* PC...
    > The HDD was installed as a USB-connected device and ordinarily the XP OS
    > cannot be installed on a USB-connected HDD. (There's at least one
    > exception to performing this "feat", but it's not relevant in this
    > situation).
    >
    > With respect to your mom's machine...
    >
    > It's possible that the problem you describe is hardware-related but that's
    > not definitive by any means.
    >
    > Re your attempt to install the OS onto that 500 GB HDD...
    >
    > It's generally best *not* to partition/format the HDD prior to undertaking
    > the XP OS setup program. The partitioning/formatting process is best
    > undertaken as an integral part of the OS installation (setup) process. But
    > (usually) there's no real harm in partitioning/formatting the disk prior
    > to the setup process.
    >
    > We're assuming that the new HDD was properly connected to the appropriate
    > SATA (first) connector on the motherboard and that the old HDD (together
    > with any other storage device(s)) was disconnected from the machine. And
    > that the disk's power/data cables were securely connected.
    >
    > You've indicated that the system "blue screened" at the point of the setup
    > process where one would normally select the partition on which to install
    > the OS. Can we assume you've repeated the setup process and always with
    > the identical result? In other words the XP "setup" files are *always*
    > installed apparently without a problem and you get to the "Welcome..."
    > screen without any problems, yes? And when you then press the Enter key to
    > install the OS, no error message(s) at that point are forthcoming, yes?
    >
    > What I'm trying to get at re the above paragraph is that you're certain
    > that you do *not* get a message at the beginning of the setup process that
    > "XP cannot find any hard disks installed" (or words to that effect),
    > right? So that all you get is that BSOD? Any info on that "blue screen"
    > that's a clue as to what the problem is?
    >
    > It's doubtful whether any SATA controller driver issue is involved here.
    > If that were the case you would get the message mentioned in the above
    > paragraph.
    >
    > Re your last post...
    > The fact that your XP OS installation CD was "created" on an IDE (PATA)
    > HDD is of no significance. But what do you mean by "created"? The CD is
    > not an original MS commercially-issued XP OS CD? Or do you mean "created"
    > in the sense that you slipstreamed SP2 onto a CD to "create" an XP OS
    > installation CD containing SP2?
    >
    > I think you're right about foregoing the disk-cloning process at this
    > point. You've got to first resolve this issue as to why you're unable to
    > fresh-install the OS onto the new HDD. Once that problem has been
    > resolved, then you can consider a disk-cloning process assuming you're not
    > dealing with a corrupted already-installed OS on the old HDD.
    >
    > Now as I re:read your last post I'm at a loss to understand your final
    > paragraph where you say "I agree that my best option at this point seems
    > to be installing the new SATA drive as primary and then installing XP
    > direct to the new drive. I avoided that at first because I wasn't
    > entirely convinced that the existing hard drive was the problem".
    >
    > But wasn't (isn't) that the problem you've related, i.e., that you
    > attempted to install the XP OS onto that drive in your mother's PC but
    > couldn't do so because of that "blue screen"?
    >
    > Sorry, I guess I'm a little slow today. I now realize that the old HDD was
    > apparently connected at the time of your attempt to install the OS onto
    > the new HDD. Is that right? As I inferred above it's always best practice
    > (whenever practical) to disconnect all storage devices, HDDs, flash
    > drives, etc. when installing the OS. Anyway, hopefully you should be able
    > to fresh-install the OS onto the 500 GB HDD. Again, install it to the
    > first SATA connector on the motherboard. Then, of course, work with that
    > drive to determine whether the "blue screen" problem continues to exist.
    > If it does, then the problem would appear to be hardware related.
    >
    > In the meantime you might want to check out the old HDD with the HDD
    > diagnostic utility usually available via a download from the disk's
    > manufacturer.
    > Anna
    >
     
  7. Anna

    Anna Flightless Bird


    >> "Thomas M." <NoEmailReplies@Please.com> wrote in message
    >> news:e95io$fxKHA.5576@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
    >>> XP Pro with SP2
    >>>
    >>> Sorry about the length of this post. I simply wanted to provide as much
    >>> background information on the problem as possible.
    >>>
    >>> I've recently been fighting a problem on my Mom's computer. The machine
    >>> periodically freezes (There is no blue screen at this point). Sometimes
    >>> it will run a couple of hours and other times it will run only 10 or 15
    >>> minutes before freezing. When it freezes the only option is to power
    >>> off and restart. On the restart the machine will run Chkdsk, which it
    >>> sometimes is unable to complete. It behaves this way with Safe Mode as
    >>> well. I was able to take a look at the event log and saw a bunch of
    >>> hard disk errors, one of which indicated that the driver is reporting an
    >>> imminent hard drive failure, which I can believe given the behavior of
    >>> the machine.
    >>>
    >>> I ordered a new 500 GB hard drive, but since my Mom's machine uses SATA
    >>> and my machine used IDE, the only way I had to initialize and format the
    >>> drive was to install it as a secondary drive in the problem machine. I
    >>> was able to initialize and format the drive. I then inserted an XP SP2
    >>> installation CD and attempted to install XP to the new drive. The
    >>> initial steps of the setup program ran, but before it got to the part
    >>> where you select the volume on which to install XP, the setup program
    >>> blue screened. I was not able to get the new hard drive to be recognized
    >>> by the machine after that happened.
    >>>
    >>> So I thought that maybe the problem was a memory chip, drive controller,
    >>> or even the motherboard in the problem machine. To eliminate those
    >>> possibilities I purchased an external drive enclosure that would allow
    >>> my machine with IDE drives to use a SATA drive via a USB cable. But the
    >>> new hard drive was not recognized in the drive enclosure either.
    >>> Thinking that maybe I just had some bad luck and got a defective drive,
    >>> I took the drive back to the store and exchanged it for another drive.
    >>>
    >>> I then hooked up the new drive to my machine using the drive enclosure.
    >>> Again, I initialized and formatted the drive. I then attempted to
    >>> install XP SP2--using a different CD this time--and again the setup
    >>> program blue screened. So, with an entirely different machine,
    >>> different hard drive, and different installation CD, I got the same
    >>> result--a blue screen during installation.
    >>>
    >>> Now I am wondering if I am hitting a bug in the XP installation process.
    >>> Maybe it doesn't like installing to a secondary drive, or to a USB
    >>> drive, or maybe it doesn't like hard drive partitions larger than a
    >>> certain size or something. At this point, my only option is to install
    >>> the blank hard drive into the problem machine as the only drive and try
    >>> installing again. I did not do that initially because the problem had
    >>> not been diagnosed for certain and I wanted to eliminate the possibility
    >>> of memory chip, drive controller, and circuit board problems, but I
    >>> don't see where I have any choice now.
    >>>
    >>> Can anyone explain why the setup program would blue screen in two
    >>> different machine machines using different hard drives and installation
    >>> CDs?
    >>>
    >>> --Tom

    >>
    >> Tom later adds...
    >>> Yes, the new drive that I purchased is SATA. However, the XP
    >>> installation CDs that I have been using were created on an older machine
    >>> with IDE drives. I have SP3 on a CD, but I don't think it's bootable.
    >>> My plan was to install XP with SP2 and then immediately patch to SP3,
    >>> but if the blue screens are the result of a SATA driver issue, then
    >>> maybe I will need to slipstream SP3 as you suggested. I did not even
    >>> think about that. Thanks for the tip!
    >>>
    >>> I originally thought of cloning, but decided against it because I
    >>> thought that might clone corrupt files onto the new drive. I don't have
    >>> a lot of experience with cloning, so I really don't know if that's
    >>> something to worry about or not, but I decided not to risk it.
    >>>
    >>> I agree that my best option at this point seems to be installing the new
    >>> SATA drive as primary and then installing XP direct to the new drive. I
    >>> avoided that at first because I wasn't entirely convinced that the
    >>> existing hard drive was the problem. I even considered that the drive
    >>> could be getting zapped by power somehow, which is why I didn't want to
    >>> risk a new drive in the system until I felt more comfortable that other
    >>> hardware components had been eliminated from the list of suspects. That
    >>> seems to be the case now, so I'm more comfortable with putting the new
    >>> drive into the machine.
    >>>
    >>> --Tom



    > "Anna" <myname@myisp.net> wrote in message
    > news:%23oNTXcixKHA.3408@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
    >> Tom...
    >> First - taking the problem with your inability to install the XP OS using
    >> *your* PC...
    >> The HDD was installed as a USB-connected device and ordinarily the XP OS
    >> cannot be installed on a USB-connected HDD. (There's at least one
    >> exception to performing this "feat", but it's not relevant in this
    >> situation).
    >>
    >> With respect to your mom's machine...
    >>
    >> It's possible that the problem you describe is hardware-related but
    >> that's not definitive by any means.
    >>
    >> Re your attempt to install the OS onto that 500 GB HDD...
    >>
    >> It's generally best *not* to partition/format the HDD prior to
    >> undertaking the XP OS setup program. The partitioning/formatting process
    >> is best undertaken as an integral part of the OS installation (setup)
    >> process. But (usually) there's no real harm in partitioning/formatting
    >> the disk prior to the setup process.
    >>
    >> We're assuming that the new HDD was properly connected to the appropriate
    >> SATA (first) connector on the motherboard and that the old HDD (together
    >> with any other storage device(s)) was disconnected from the machine. And
    >> that the disk's power/data cables were securely connected.
    >>
    >> You've indicated that the system "blue screened" at the point of the
    >> setup process where one would normally select the partition on which to
    >> install the OS. Can we assume you've repeated the setup process and
    >> always with the identical result? In other words the XP "setup" files are
    >> *always* installed apparently without a problem and you get to the
    >> "Welcome..." screen without any problems, yes? And when you then press
    >> the Enter key to install the OS, no error message(s) at that point are
    >> forthcoming, yes?
    >>
    >> What I'm trying to get at re the above paragraph is that you're certain
    >> that you do *not* get a message at the beginning of the setup process
    >> that "XP cannot find any hard disks installed" (or words to that effect),
    >> right? So that all you get is that BSOD? Any info on that "blue screen"
    >> that's a clue as to what the problem is?
    >>
    >> It's doubtful whether any SATA controller driver issue is involved here.
    >> If that were the case you would get the message mentioned in the above
    >> paragraph.
    >>
    >> Re your last post...
    >> The fact that your XP OS installation CD was "created" on an IDE (PATA)
    >> HDD is of no significance. But what do you mean by "created"? The CD is
    >> not an original MS commercially-issued XP OS CD? Or do you mean "created"
    >> in the sense that you slipstreamed SP2 onto a CD to "create" an XP OS
    >> installation CD containing SP2?
    >>
    >> I think you're right about foregoing the disk-cloning process at this
    >> point. You've got to first resolve this issue as to why you're unable to
    >> fresh-install the OS onto the new HDD. Once that problem has been
    >> resolved, then you can consider a disk-cloning process assuming you're
    >> not dealing with a corrupted already-installed OS on the old HDD.
    >>
    >> Now as I re:read your last post I'm at a loss to understand your final
    >> paragraph where you say "I agree that my best option at this point seems
    >> to be installing the new SATA drive as primary and then installing XP
    >> direct to the new drive. I avoided that at first because I wasn't
    >> entirely convinced that the existing hard drive was the problem".
    >>
    >> But wasn't (isn't) that the problem you've related, i.e., that you
    >> attempted to install the XP OS onto that drive in your mother's PC but
    >> couldn't do so because of that "blue screen"?
    >>
    >> Sorry, I guess I'm a little slow today. I now realize that the old HDD
    >> was apparently connected at the time of your attempt to install the OS
    >> onto the new HDD. Is that right? As I inferred above it's always best
    >> practice (whenever practical) to disconnect all storage devices, HDDs,
    >> flash drives, etc. when installing the OS. Anyway, hopefully you should
    >> be able to fresh-install the OS onto the 500 GB HDD. Again, install it to
    >> the first SATA connector on the motherboard. Then, of course, work with
    >> that drive to determine whether the "blue screen" problem continues to
    >> exist. If it does, then the problem would appear to be hardware related.
    >>
    >> In the meantime you might want to check out the old HDD with the HDD
    >> diagnostic utility usually available via a download from the disk's
    >> manufacturer.
    >> Anna



    "Thomas M." <NoEmailReplies@Please.com> wrote in message
    news:-O632wP8xKHA.2436@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
    > Anna,
    >
    > I'll try to reply to as many of your questions as possible.
    >
    > The symptom with my mom's PC is that it periodically freezes. When this
    > happens there are no error messages and the keyboard and mouse stop
    > responding, so the only option is to power off. My first gut reaction is
    > that there is an issue with a memory chip or slot, or maybe the
    > motherboard. The reason that I started to focus on the HD is that I found
    > error messages in the Event log indicating that the HD is in danger of
    > imminent failure and should be replaced immediately. I took that message
    > at face value and immediately backed up the data to an SD card (the only
    > option I had at that moment). I've learned not to press my luck with HD
    > issues, so I purchased a new HD as a replacement.
    >
    > As a quick aside, I have since learned that the original HD is indeed in
    > bad shape. I ran chkdsk and picked up all kinds of errors. Chkdsk was
    > able to fix them all, but the sure number of errors does not bode well for
    > the overall health of the original HD. Still, I can't help but feel that
    > there is something else going on. In fact, maybe the HD problem was
    > *caused* by a deeper hardware issue.
    >
    > My first effort to install XP to the new HD was with the original HD still
    > in the system as the primary drive and the new HD as secondary. This is
    > the first time that I've ever attempted that. Usually I just pull the
    > failing HD, insert the new one, let the setup program handle formatting,
    > and call it good. However, since the original HD still limps along I
    > thought that if I could install the OS to the new HD connected as a
    > secondary drive that I could then drag and drop data over and be done.
    > Plus, I kind of wanted to try installing the OS to a secondary drive just
    > because I had never tried that before.
    >
    > When the installation blue screened I thought maybe that was caused by a
    > deeper problem with the machine (memory chip, motherboard, power, etc.)
    > and that I could get around that by connecting the new HD to another
    > machine and installing the OS that way, and then just swapping out the
    > drives in my mom's machine. The problem with that is that my machine uses
    > IDE drives so the only option I had for connecting the new SATA drive to
    > my older IDE machine was with a USB drive enclosure. I didn't know if
    > that would work, but I thought I'd give it a try. The XP setup program
    > does allow me to select the new HD when it's connected as a USB drive, but
    > I haven't been able to get that option to work.
    >
    > I then researched the causes of blue screens during XP installations, and
    > the causes seem to run from a bad installation CD to problems with memory,
    > memory slots, power, etc. I have a couple of different installation CDs
    > that I tried just to rule out the possibility of a bad CD. I do have an
    > original XP Pro CD (which I also tried and with the same results), but for
    > the most part the CDs that I've been using are disks that I made with
    > slipstreamed service packs. My reference to having made the CDs on a
    > machine using IDE drives was only to indicate that the CDs are 2 or 3
    > years old, and therefore may not contain SATA drivers. I realize now that
    > I was not clear on that point, and I've come to the conclusion that the
    > issue is not with SATA drivers anyway.
    >
    > As for the content of the blue screen, it just indicates that there was a
    > problem and lists some basic troubleshooting steps, like running chkdsk,
    > check the drive connections and power cables, etc. I've swapped out
    > internal hard drives hundreds of times and so I know to check all that
    > stuff. All the connections are solid. There's something else going on
    > here.
    >
    > The latest news is that I installed the new HD in my mom's machine as the
    > primary drive and removed the old HD entirely, and then tried to install
    > XP to the new HD. Again, it blue screened on me. So I thought that I
    > would try to eliminate the memory chips and slots as a source of the
    > problem. The system has two 1 GB chips and I tried the installation with
    > each chip installed individually and with both installed, and I rotated
    > them between slots as well. After each change the XP installation blue
    > screened. So now I am thinking that the problem is with the power supply
    > (Maybe it's not producing a smooth flow of power) or the motherboard.
    >
    > On the plus side, I found that there are 169 days left on the warranty.
    > Since it doesn't seem like just a HD replacement at this point, I've
    > encouraged my mom to have the machine fixed under warranty.
    >
    > --Tom



    Tom:
    Responding to your latest post in no particular order...

    (Since you've indicated your mom's machine is still under warranty perhaps
    it probably is best to return the machine for service under that warranty
    rather than pursue the matter further on your end. So the following is
    simply for informational purposes.)

    1. In our experience, as I previously indicated, (with the exception of a
    few rather extroardinary exceptions which have no relevancy re this issue),
    the XP OS cannot be *directly* installed on a USB-connected external HDD.
    The fact that the motherboard's BIOS indicates a capability to boot from a
    USB-connected device is irrelevant in this situation, again, in our
    experience.

    2. Re your mom's (problem) machine and your unsuccessful attempt to
    fresh-install the XP OS onto the new HDD...

    With respect to the "blue screen" problem you mention during the setup
    process. Would you specifically respond to the question I raised in my
    previous post, to wit...

    You've indicated that the system "blue screened" at the point of the setup
    process where one would normally select the partition on which to install
    the OS. Can we assume you've repeated the setup process and always with the
    identical result? In other words the XP "setup" files are *always* installed
    apparently without a problem and you get to the "Welcome..." screen without
    any problems, yes? And when you then press the Enter key to install the OS,
    no error message(s) at that point are forthcoming, yes?

    Do you see what I'm trying to get at here? It you got the BSOD *always* at
    the same point that you previously indicated, i.e., at the point where you
    had the option to install the OS on a specific partition, it's hard to
    imagine that a hardware issue is involved here (although that's always a
    possibility however unusual). On the other hand if the BSOD appeared at
    different points when you (repeatedly) attempted a fresh-install of the OS,
    that would tend to indicate the possibility of a hardware-related problem,
    possibly a defective PSU as you suspect. Naturally this assumes you're not
    dealing with a defective HDD or some other defective component.
    Anna
     
  8. Thomas M.

    Thomas M. Flightless Bird

    > Tom:
    > Responding to your latest post in no particular order...
    >
    > (Since you've indicated your mom's machine is still under warranty perhaps
    > it probably is best to return the machine for service under that warranty
    > rather than pursue the matter further on your end. So the following is
    > simply for informational purposes.)
    >
    > 1. In our experience, as I previously indicated, (with the exception of a
    > few rather extroardinary exceptions which have no relevancy re this
    > issue), the XP OS cannot be *directly* installed on a USB-connected
    > external HDD. The fact that the motherboard's BIOS indicates a capability
    > to boot from a USB-connected device is irrelevant in this situation,
    > again, in our experience.
    >
    > 2. Re your mom's (problem) machine and your unsuccessful attempt to
    > fresh-install the XP OS onto the new HDD...
    >
    > With respect to the "blue screen" problem you mention during the setup
    > process. Would you specifically respond to the question I raised in my
    > previous post, to wit...
    >
    > You've indicated that the system "blue screened" at the point of the setup
    > process where one would normally select the partition on which to install
    > the OS. Can we assume you've repeated the setup process and always with
    > the identical result? In other words the XP "setup" files are *always*
    > installed apparently without a problem and you get to the "Welcome..."
    > screen without any problems, yes? And when you then press the Enter key to
    > install the OS, no error message(s) at that point are forthcoming, yes?
    >
    > Do you see what I'm trying to get at here? It you got the BSOD *always* at
    > the same point that you previously indicated, i.e., at the point where you
    > had the option to install the OS on a specific partition, it's hard to
    > imagine that a hardware issue is involved here (although that's always a
    > possibility however unusual). On the other hand if the BSOD appeared at
    > different points when you (repeatedly) attempted a fresh-install of the
    > OS, that would tend to indicate the possibility of a hardware-related
    > problem, possibly a defective PSU as you suspect. Naturally this assumes
    > you're not dealing with a defective HDD or some other defective component.
    > Anna


    I *may* have actually solved the freeze up problem. Thinking about it this
    weekend I remembered from a previous research project that XP often has
    trouble coming out of hibernation mode if there are problems with the hard
    drive. So I looked at the power option and found that hibernation mode was
    enabled. So I disabled hibernation and for the one evening that I left it
    running the machine did not freeze like it has been doing. I'll need to see
    if that behavior holds over a longer period before I declare that issue as
    resolved.

    However, that still leaves the ailing hard drive as an issue, and I have not
    yet solved the problem with the blue screens during installation.

    One clarification; You indicate in your last post that the fact that the
    BIOS sees the USB drive is not relevant. I agree. However, that is also
    NOT what I said, although I can see the reason for your confusion. If you
    look back at my comment you'll see, "The XP setup program does allow me to
    select the new HD when it's connected as a USB drive, but I haven't been
    able to get that option to work." In other words, when I run the XP
    installation program and I get to the point where you select a partition on
    which to install XP, the USB drive is in fact listed as one of the options.
    I'm not saying that means that installing to a USB device works under
    XP--you may well be right about that--but it would at least appear that
    Microsoft intended for that option to work. But it wouldn't be the first
    thing that Microsoft intended to work that doesn't.

    As for specifics on the blue screens, it's been a couple of days since I had
    a chance to work on the issue and my memory is a little fuzzy. I'll need to
    give it another try in order to get specifics.

    --Tom
     
  9. Mark Adams

    Mark Adams Flightless Bird

    "Thomas M." wrote:

    > > Tom:
    > > Responding to your latest post in no particular order...
    > >
    > > (Since you've indicated your mom's machine is still under warranty perhaps
    > > it probably is best to return the machine for service under that warranty
    > > rather than pursue the matter further on your end. So the following is
    > > simply for informational purposes.)
    > >
    > > 1. In our experience, as I previously indicated, (with the exception of a
    > > few rather extroardinary exceptions which have no relevancy re this
    > > issue), the XP OS cannot be *directly* installed on a USB-connected
    > > external HDD. The fact that the motherboard's BIOS indicates a capability
    > > to boot from a USB-connected device is irrelevant in this situation,
    > > again, in our experience.
    > >
    > > 2. Re your mom's (problem) machine and your unsuccessful attempt to
    > > fresh-install the XP OS onto the new HDD...
    > >
    > > With respect to the "blue screen" problem you mention during the setup
    > > process. Would you specifically respond to the question I raised in my
    > > previous post, to wit...
    > >
    > > You've indicated that the system "blue screened" at the point of the setup
    > > process where one would normally select the partition on which to install
    > > the OS. Can we assume you've repeated the setup process and always with
    > > the identical result? In other words the XP "setup" files are *always*
    > > installed apparently without a problem and you get to the "Welcome..."
    > > screen without any problems, yes? And when you then press the Enter key to
    > > install the OS, no error message(s) at that point are forthcoming, yes?
    > >
    > > Do you see what I'm trying to get at here? It you got the BSOD *always* at
    > > the same point that you previously indicated, i.e., at the point where you
    > > had the option to install the OS on a specific partition, it's hard to
    > > imagine that a hardware issue is involved here (although that's always a
    > > possibility however unusual). On the other hand if the BSOD appeared at
    > > different points when you (repeatedly) attempted a fresh-install of the
    > > OS, that would tend to indicate the possibility of a hardware-related
    > > problem, possibly a defective PSU as you suspect. Naturally this assumes
    > > you're not dealing with a defective HDD or some other defective component.
    > > Anna

    >
    > I *may* have actually solved the freeze up problem. Thinking about it this
    > weekend I remembered from a previous research project that XP often has
    > trouble coming out of hibernation mode if there are problems with the hard
    > drive. So I looked at the power option and found that hibernation mode was
    > enabled. So I disabled hibernation and for the one evening that I left it
    > running the machine did not freeze like it has been doing. I'll need to see
    > if that behavior holds over a longer period before I declare that issue as
    > resolved.
    >
    > However, that still leaves the ailing hard drive as an issue, and I have not
    > yet solved the problem with the blue screens during installation.
    >
    > One clarification; You indicate in your last post that the fact that the
    > BIOS sees the USB drive is not relevant. I agree. However, that is also
    > NOT what I said, although I can see the reason for your confusion. If you
    > look back at my comment you'll see, "The XP setup program does allow me to
    > select the new HD when it's connected as a USB drive, but I haven't been
    > able to get that option to work." In other words, when I run the XP
    > installation program and I get to the point where you select a partition on
    > which to install XP, the USB drive is in fact listed as one of the options.
    > I'm not saying that means that installing to a USB device works under
    > XP--you may well be right about that--but it would at least appear that
    > Microsoft intended for that option to work. But it wouldn't be the first
    > thing that Microsoft intended to work that doesn't.
    >
    > As for specifics on the blue screens, it's been a couple of days since I had
    > a chance to work on the issue and my memory is a little fuzzy. I'll need to
    > give it another try in order to get specifics.
    >
    > --Tom
    >


    Thomas, you should still try cloning the old drive to the new one. As long
    as the machine still boots, you don't have anything to lose except the time
    it takes to try. Follow the instructions I gave on my previous post. By
    getting the install on a healthy drive and then disconnecting the original
    drive, you will beter be able to evaluate the condition of the Windows
    install. The machine might run fine without the dicey drive connected. The
    cloning process doesn't alter the source drive at all and you can always
    reconnect it later if for some reason, the cloning process doesn't go well.

    The disk software should also be able to partition and format the drive as
    well. If the machine freezes while trying to partition and format the new
    drive while the old drive is disconnected; that would be a good indication
    that you have some other hardware problem.
     
  10. Anna

    Anna Flightless Bird


    >> Tom:
    >> Responding to your latest post in no particular order...
    >>
    >> (Since you've indicated your mom's machine is still under warranty
    >> perhaps it probably is best to return the machine for service under that
    >> warranty rather than pursue the matter further on your end. So the
    >> following is simply for informational purposes.)
    >>
    >> 1. In our experience, as I previously indicated, (with the exception of a
    >> few rather extroardinary exceptions which have no relevancy re this
    >> issue), the XP OS cannot be *directly* installed on a USB-connected
    >> external HDD. The fact that the motherboard's BIOS indicates a capability
    >> to boot from a USB-connected device is irrelevant in this situation,
    >> again, in our experience.


    (SNIP)
    >> Anna



    "Thomas M." <NoEmailReplies@Please.com> wrote in message
    news:eFE9$PeyKHA.4752@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
    > I *may* have actually solved the freeze up problem. Thinking about it
    > this weekend I remembered from a previous research project that XP often
    > has trouble coming out of hibernation mode if there are problems with the
    > hard drive. So I looked at the power option and found that hibernation
    > mode was enabled. So I disabled hibernation and for the one evening that
    > I left it running the machine did not freeze like it has been doing. I'll
    > need to see if that behavior holds over a longer period before I declare
    > that issue as resolved.
    >
    > However, that still leaves the ailing hard drive as an issue, and I have
    > not yet solved the problem with the blue screens during installation.
    >
    > One clarification; You indicate in your last post that the fact that the
    > BIOS sees the USB drive is not relevant. I agree. However, that is also
    > NOT what I said, although I can see the reason for your confusion. If you
    > look back at my comment you'll see, "The XP setup program does allow me to
    > select the new HD when it's connected as a USB drive, but I haven't been
    > able to get that option to work." In other words, when I run the XP
    > installation program and I get to the point where you select a partition
    > on which to install XP, the USB drive is in fact listed as one of the
    > options. I'm not saying that means that installing to a USB device works
    > under XP--you may well be right about that--but it would at least appear
    > that Microsoft intended for that option to work. But it wouldn't be the
    > first thing that Microsoft intended to work that doesn't.
    >
    > As for specifics on the blue screens, it's been a couple of days since I
    > had a chance to work on the issue and my memory is a little fuzzy. I'll
    > need to give it another try in order to get specifics.
    >
    > --Tom



    Tom:
    Based on your description of the problem afflicting your mom's PC I woud be
    mildly surprised that implementation of XP's hibernation mode is the cause
    of the problem. But if you *do* trace the root cause of the problem to that
    issue and find the simple expedient of disabling hibernation solves the
    problem, then well & good. Should that be the case perhaps invoking the sfc
    /scannow command will be in order assuming you haven't undertaken that
    process previously. I believe you previously indicated that you had run the
    chkdsk command which identified certain problems and hopefully corrected
    such but I'm not entirely clear about that.

    As I've suggested in a previous post I really think you should check out the
    installed HDD with the HDD diagnostic utility you can obtain from the disk's
    manufacturer or use a program such as HDSentinel to do so. It's always wise
    practice to do so in situations similar to yours.

    I assume your reference to "the ailing hard drive", i.e., the new 500 GB
    HDD, is with respect to your failure to fresh-install the XP OS onto that
    disk installed in your mom's PC, right? Assuming that disk is non-defective,
    which presumably it is, and you've undertaken the OS setup process
    repeatedly and have always encountered the BSOD at some point or another
    during the setup process, it's hard to conclude that a hardware issue of one
    sort or another is *not* involved here. Again, as I previously suggested,
    (with the obvious exception of the 500 GB HDD), all storage devices should
    be disconnected from the system when undertaking the XP OS setup process.

    Yes, I do understand (as you have pointed out) that the setup process of the
    XP OS lists a USB-connected device, e.g., a USB external HDD, as a device on
    which you can install the OS. Unfortunately, it is not a viable "option",
    since ordinarily the setup process will balk at fresh-installing the XP OS
    onto a USB-connected device and at one point or another (I've found that
    "point" varies from time-to-time) that dreaded BSOD displays. (As I
    previously mentioned there are some rare exceptions whereby a user could
    install the XP OS onto a USBEHD, but they're of little or no relevance in
    your situation).

    Incidentally, (as another example), a USB-installed 32 MB flash drive that
    happens to be connected to the system when the XP OS is being
    fresh-installed will also be listed as a disk drive during the setup
    process, but obviously the XP OS could not be installed on such a device.
    Anna
     
  11. Thomas M.

    Thomas M. Flightless Bird

    > Tom:
    > Responding to your latest post in no particular order...
    >
    > (Since you've indicated your mom's machine is still under warranty perhaps
    > it probably is best to return the machine for service under that warranty
    > rather than pursue the matter further on your end. So the following is
    > simply for informational purposes.)
    >
    > 1. In our experience, as I previously indicated, (with the exception of a
    > few rather extroardinary exceptions which have no relevancy re this
    > issue), the XP OS cannot be *directly* installed on a USB-connected
    > external HDD. The fact that the motherboard's BIOS indicates a capability
    > to boot from a USB-connected device is irrelevant in this situation,
    > again, in our experience.
    >
    > 2. Re your mom's (problem) machine and your unsuccessful attempt to
    > fresh-install the XP OS onto the new HDD...
    >
    > With respect to the "blue screen" problem you mention during the setup
    > process. Would you specifically respond to the question I raised in my
    > previous post, to wit...
    >
    > You've indicated that the system "blue screened" at the point of the setup
    > process where one would normally select the partition on which to install
    > the OS. Can we assume you've repeated the setup process and always with
    > the identical result? In other words the XP "setup" files are *always*
    > installed apparently without a problem and you get to the "Welcome..."
    > screen without any problems, yes? And when you then press the Enter key to
    > install the OS, no error message(s) at that point are forthcoming, yes?
    >
    > Do you see what I'm trying to get at here? It you got the BSOD *always* at
    > the same point that you previously indicated, i.e., at the point where you
    > had the option to install the OS on a specific partition, it's hard to
    > imagine that a hardware issue is involved here (although that's always a
    > possibility however unusual). On the other hand if the BSOD appeared at
    > different points when you (repeatedly) attempted a fresh-install of the
    > OS, that would tend to indicate the possibility of a hardware-related
    > problem, possibly a defective PSU as you suspect. Naturally this assumes
    > you're not dealing with a defective HDD or some other defective component.
    > Anna


    Anna,

    I have resolved all issues with this machine, and wanted to post back my
    findings. However, in this post I will restrict my comments to the BSOD
    issue, and then I'll post another message at the end of the thread to tie it
    all up.

    I ran a number of scenarios and paid close attention to the point at which
    the BSOD appeared and the text of the BSOD. My findings are below.
    Scenario 4 is the one that tipped me off to the eventual solution. I'll
    post full details in another message at the end of this thread, but
    basically I had to change the SATA Operation setting in the BIOS.

    Scenario 1
    ----------
    New HD installed internally as the primary HD using the same SATA port as
    the original HD and with no other HDs installed.

    Last Screen Before BSOD: Setup is starting Windows
    Next Screen After BSOD: Windows XP Professional Setup

    Result: This is the screen where you hit ENTER to continue, R to repair a
    Windows installation using the Recovery Console, or F3 to exit. The machine
    blue screens before this screen appears.


    Scenario 2
    ----------
    Attempting to install Windows 2003 Server

    Result: Same as attempting to install XP Pro.


    Scenario 3
    ----------
    Attempting to install XP to an external USB device

    Result: You can select the partition, delete the partition, create a new
    partition, and format the partition. The setup program will copy over the
    files and initialize the installation. Setup then displays a message
    indicating that it needs to reboot the machine and that setup will continue
    after the reboot. On reboot the Windows splash screen appears briefly and
    then the machine blue screens with the exact same information as the above
    scenario.


    Scenario 4
    ----------
    Attempting to boot with BartPE

    Result: Machine blue screens shortly after the Windows XP splash screen
    appears but before the boot process is finished.



    Blue Screen Text
    ----------------
    In all scenarios the BSOD text is the same. The text is precisely as shown
    below.

    A problem has been detected and Windows has been shut down to prevent damage
    to your computer.

    If this is the first time you've seen this Stop error screen, restart your
    computer. If this screen appears again, follow these steps:

    Check for viruses on your computer. Remove any newly installed hard drives
    or hard drive controllers. Check your hard drive to make sure it is
    properly configured and terminated. Run CHKDSK /F to check for hard drive
    corruption, and then restart your computer.

    Technical information:
    *** STOP: 0x0000007B (0xF78D2524, 0xC0000034, 0x00000000, 0x00000000)
     
  12. Thomas M.

    Thomas M. Flightless Bird

    > Tom:
    > Based on your description of the problem afflicting your mom's PC I woud
    > be mildly surprised that implementation of XP's hibernation mode is the
    > cause of the problem. But if you *do* trace the root cause of the problem
    > to that issue and find the simple expedient of disabling hibernation
    > solves the problem, then well & good. Should that be the case perhaps
    > invoking the sfc /scannow command will be in order assuming you haven't
    > undertaken that process previously. I believe you previously indicated
    > that you had run the chkdsk command which identified certain problems and
    > hopefully corrected such but I'm not entirely clear about that.
    >
    > As I've suggested in a previous post I really think you should check out
    > the installed HDD with the HDD diagnostic utility you can obtain from the
    > disk's manufacturer or use a program such as HDSentinel to do so. It's
    > always wise practice to do so in situations similar to yours.
    >
    > I assume your reference to "the ailing hard drive", i.e., the new 500 GB
    > HDD, is with respect to your failure to fresh-install the XP OS onto that
    > disk installed in your mom's PC, right? Assuming that disk is
    > non-defective, which presumably it is, and you've undertaken the OS setup
    > process repeatedly and have always encountered the BSOD at some point or
    > another during the setup process, it's hard to conclude that a hardware
    > issue of one sort or another is *not* involved here. Again, as I
    > previously suggested, (with the obvious exception of the 500 GB HDD), all
    > storage devices should be disconnected from the system when undertaking
    > the XP OS setup process.
    >
    > Yes, I do understand (as you have pointed out) that the setup process of
    > the XP OS lists a USB-connected device, e.g., a USB external HDD, as a
    > device on which you can install the OS. Unfortunately, it is not a viable
    > "option", since ordinarily the setup process will balk at fresh-installing
    > the XP OS onto a USB-connected device and at one point or another (I've
    > found that "point" varies from time-to-time) that dreaded BSOD displays.
    > (As I previously mentioned there are some rare exceptions whereby a user
    > could install the XP OS onto a USBEHD, but they're of little or no
    > relevance in your situation).
    >
    > Incidentally, (as another example), a USB-installed 32 MB flash drive that
    > happens to be connected to the system when the XP OS is being
    > fresh-installed will also be listed as a disk drive during the setup
    > process, but obviously the XP OS could not be installed on such a device.
    > Anna


    Mark and Anna,

    First off, thanks for your help on this issue. I've now resolved all the
    issues and wanted to post back to this group with all of my findings.

    I confirmed that the original HD in the machine was indeed failing. CHKDSK
    showed that and the error messages in the Event log indicated the same.
    When I ran the HD diagnostic that came with the machine (Just the other
    night after all these posts) it returned, "Error: Unable to complete the
    test." It took less than a second to come back with that error, so...

    The problem with the system freezing seems to be associated with the fact
    that the machine was going into hibernation. I know that XP has problems
    coming out of hibernation if there are problems with the HD, and that seems
    to be the case here. Once I disabled hibernation the freeze up problems
    where reduced by about 90%, but not completely eliminated.

    As Anna indicated, attempting to install the OS to an external USB drive
    does not work. I did some research on this and found that XP is unable to
    hold the connection to the external drive through a reboot. It does not,
    for example, write the information to a temporary file and then re-establish
    the connection after the reboot. In my testing, I found that the XP
    installation program would copy over the files and then reboot to continue
    installing, and after the reboot I would see the Windows XP splash screen
    briefly and then the machine would blue screen. So my results would seem to
    match the information I found online about XP losing the connection to the
    external device during the reboot. In retrospect, it makes sense, but one
    would hope that Microsoft will fix that in future operating systems.

    I believe that all other attempts to install XP to the new drive failed
    because of the SATA Operation setting in the BIOS. I actually checked the
    SATA Operation setting in the BIOS as one of my very first troubleshooting
    steps back before I wrote up my original post. The BIOS for the machine has
    two SATA options, one called, "RAID" which is the default, and the other
    called, "RAID Autodetect / ATA." The original HD was set to run with the
    RAID option. The BIOS indicates that the RAID option is the default and
    that the system can run in that mode even if only one drive is installed and
    there is no RAID array in the machine. So I figured that if the original HD
    was running in the default mode, and if the machine can run in that mode
    with just one HD installed, that I could just leave that setting at the
    default and all would be good. But that is *not* the case. I had to change
    the SATA Operation to "RAID Autodetect / ATA" and then everything worked.

    I probably would have figured this out sooner if I had simply been upgrading
    a healthy HD. But given that I was upgrading because of a failing HD and
    *thought* that the SATA Operation setting was correct, and then on top of
    that started seeing the BSOD during the XP install, my mind went to things
    like a bad installation CD, driver controllers, memory, power, et cetera.
    But no, it was the SATA Operation setting. File that one under Things
    Learned the Hard Way!

    BTW, Dell sent a replacement drive under warranty. I am keeping the 500 GB
    drive that I purchased, though, because I can use it with another machine.

    Thanks for all your help!

    --Tom
     

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