Daave wrote:
> C wrote:
>> Leythos wrote:
>>
>>> Piracy is unethical.
>> "Unethical" is a subjective judgment, usually based on some religion;
>
> Almost everything is subjective.
You missed the "judgment" part.
> However, consensus (like with most
> climatologists' acceptance of the phenomenon of anthropomorphic climate
> change) can be measured and expressed objectively.
You mean like the consensus the US Senate almost never reaches?
>
> Also, religion is certainly not necessary for ethics. Many ethics (and
> ethicists for that matter) are agnostic or atheist.
I would venture to say that the ethics of an agnostic or atheist
originated in religion of some sort.
>
> In the dominant culture, there is a consensus on what is and isn't
> ethical (not 100% agreement, but a definite consensus, nonetheless). I
> would say it is safe to say that the pirating of software or DVDs is not
> considered by most to be ethical behavior.
If the downloading of music, software and videos could be banned, most
ISPs would go out of business. So, in the Internet Culture, you're
wrong. To which culture are you referring to as "dominant"?
>
>> in your case, probably Christianity. In Gypsy societies, for example,
>> not only is stealing ethical, it's taught to their children and
>> considered a good way to make a living.
>
> I am not an expert on "Gypsy societies," so I have no comment on the
> veracity of that.
It's true.
> However, stealing is considered unethical in the
> larger, dominant society that most of the participants in this newsgroup
> are a part of.
In a lot of countries (including some in Western Europe), downloading
music, videos and software is not illegal if they are not to be used for
profit. It's only in the US culture that grandmas and teenagers are
fined hundreds of thousands of dollars per downloaded song. Do you think
that's ethical!?
>
>> So, at the end of the day,
>> all you can say is that you think your god would disapprove and you
>> would go to Hell after you die if you don't follow the ethics of your
>> religion.
>
> God has very little, if anything at all, to do with ethics, IMO.
God doesn't exist but for Christians, he has everything to do with ti.
> You can
> easily argue that ethics as well as other societal features have
> developed as a result of evolution. For an enlightening perspective, I
> refer you to B.F. Skinner's Beyond Freedom and Dignity.
I used to date his daughter. She turned me on to grass when it was a
felony to possess. Her dad smoked it too. So much for consensual,
dominant culture ethics.
>
>> This does not, however, give you the right to push your
>> ethics on others, although Christianity doesn't have a strong record
>> of not doing such.
>
> I am no apologist for Chrisitianity, so again I have no comment one way
> or the other. Although you may disagree with Leythos's statement, he has
> every right to express it, just as you do to dispute it.
Of course he does and I have a right to tell him to keep his moralizing
to himself.
--
C