Windows problems

[Gordon]

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Hash: SHA1

Out of interest I did a count (a snapshot) of the numbers of posts in
the MS Answers Forums to which I subscribe (and provide answers in).
There were *375,000* as of this morning. Now I only subscribe to about
one third of the available forums so extrapolating, that equates to over
*1* *MILLION* posts in the MS Answers forums alone, never mind
EggHeadCafe, Techarena, Aumha forums and Seven forums. Now, if we, the
consumers, pay considerable sums for MS Software, and have to put up
with the so-called "anti piracy" activation nonsense, surely there
shouldn't be anything LIKE these MILLIONS of problems...
Seems to me that MS software is not finished products...is not fit for use.
If car manufacturers produced cars with all these problems then they'd
very soon go out of business.
Oh I forgot - MS is a monopoly, kept in power by shady dealing and
pressure...

- --
Registered Linux User no 240308
Say No to OOXML http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/9594#mpart8
gordonATgbpcomputingDOTcoDOTuk
to email me remove the obvious!
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[housetrained]

"Gordon" <gordonbparker@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:i38g2t$ts9$2@news.eternal-september.org...
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Out of interest I did a count (a snapshot) of the numbers of posts in
> the MS Answers Forums to which I subscribe (and provide answers in).
> There were *375,000* as of this morning. Now I only subscribe to about
> one third of the available forums so extrapolating, that equates to over
> *1* *MILLION* posts in the MS Answers forums alone, never mind
> EggHeadCafe, Techarena, Aumha forums and Seven forums. Now, if we, the
> consumers, pay considerable sums for MS Software, and have to put up
> with the so-called "anti piracy" activation nonsense, surely there
> shouldn't be anything LIKE these MILLIONS of problems...
> Seems to me that MS software is not finished products...is not fit for
> use.
> If car manufacturers produced cars with all these problems then they'd
> very soon go out of business.
> Oh I forgot - MS is a monopoly, kept in power by shady dealing and
> pressure...
>
> - --
> Registered Linux User no 240308
> Say No to OOXML http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/9594#mpart8
> gordonATgbpcomputingDOTcoDOTuk
> to email me remove the obvious!
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> Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/
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Most of those queries are from people with no idea what they are doing, to
use your car analogy, it's like buying a car with no training and off you
go. 99.9% of those queries are because of a cock-up by the user. Read them
and weep. Blaming Big Bill Gates? You should have been around before
Windows - you schmuck.
--
John the West Ham fan

housetrained@hotmail.com
<><
--
"The mind is like a parachute,
it works best when it is open." - Frank Zappa

 

[Gordon]

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Hash: SHA1

On 03/08/10 11:15, housetrained wrote:

> Blaming Big Bill Gates? You should have been around
> before Windows - you schmuck.

I was. CP/M.

- --
Registered Linux User no 240308
Say No to OOXML http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/9594#mpart8
gordonATgbpcomputingDOTcoDOTuk
to email me remove the obvious!
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[Dave \Crash\ Dummy]

Gordon wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On 03/08/10 11:15, housetrained wrote:
>
>> Blaming Big Bill Gates? You should have been around
>> before Windows - you schmuck.
>
> I was. CP/M.
>
> - --
> Registered Linux User no 240308
> Say No to OOXML http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/9594#mpart8
> gordonATgbpcomputingDOTcoDOTuk
> to email me remove the obvious!
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux)
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/
>
> iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJMV+3YAAoJEHqLuzqp4/k5B9IH/iLzcfxpFqND00967XUKWfpd
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> =cJ0Q
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

And you still haven't learned how to control your signature?
--
Crash

"When you want to fool the world, tell the truth."
~ Otto von Bismarck ~

 

[Ophelia Phanjephlapps]

"Dave "Crash" Dummy" <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
newsDS5o.59520$0A5.18964@newsfe22.iad...
> Gordon wrote:
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA1
>>
>> On 03/08/10 11:15, housetrained wrote:
>>
>>> Blaming Big Bill Gates? You should have been around
>>> before Windows - you schmuck.
>>
>> I was. CP/M.
>>
>> - --
>> Registered Linux User no 240308
>> Say No to OOXML http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/9594#mpart8
>> gordonATgbpcomputingDOTcoDOTuk
>> to email me remove the obvious!
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>> Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux)
>> Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/
>>
>> iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJMV+3YAAoJEHqLuzqp4/k5B9IH/iLzcfxpFqND00967XUKWfpd
>> FuFw91ksTkQFkKR2tceUm5qC4jTvLQFf8sgwvXxAPr7ixj2d43bM6xwvFykLv399
>> DJ2Efxgq6Jw7sCYlpuJmbA9uhN1HiZvRUdru/pfKaZ6wVnph41WK2zs54MtNAKm8
>> aCROfb40dEdjKcndQ+RRv22BlnAdFe28WUcQ8Z4/AZn+jyUcmXd8hEUs4hcqwQGP
>> hXNRi33HwC8+HAzOhUW2/2niHIMHixDgzii2u2kE2GpP5z94405q6mDdFWj0fZz4
>> ++VccETlSazOk+Ky3+nO4k8oipWjX5f9d3a0HYHaA690BJlnL4vE3mkrynKrWMM=
>> =cJ0Q
>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
> And you still haven't learned how to control your signature?
> --
> Crash
>
> "When you want to fool the world, tell the truth."
> ~ Otto von Bismarck ~

I can't control anything - ooooooooooooooo
--
Ophelia Phanjephlapps
opheliaphanjephlapps@hotmail.co.uk
"come up and see me - make me smile"

 

[Pulled Pork]

"Dave "Crash" Dummy" <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
newsDS5o.59520$0A5.18964@newsfe22.iad...
> Gordon wrote:
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA1
>>
>> On 03/08/10 11:15, housetrained wrote:
>>
>>> Blaming Big Bill Gates? You should have been around
>>> before Windows - you schmuck.
>>
>> I was. CP/M.
>>
>> - --
>> Registered Linux User no 240308
>> Say No to OOXML http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/9594#mpart8
>> gordonATgbpcomputingDOTcoDOTuk
>> to email me remove the obvious!
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>> Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux)
>> Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/
>>
>> iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJMV+3YAAoJEHqLuzqp4/k5B9IH/iLzcfxpFqND00967XUKWfpd
>> FuFw91ksTkQFkKR2tceUm5qC4jTvLQFf8sgwvXxAPr7ixj2d43bM6xwvFykLv399
>> DJ2Efxgq6Jw7sCYlpuJmbA9uhN1HiZvRUdru/pfKaZ6wVnph41WK2zs54MtNAKm8
>> aCROfb40dEdjKcndQ+RRv22BlnAdFe28WUcQ8Z4/AZn+jyUcmXd8hEUs4hcqwQGP
>> hXNRi33HwC8+HAzOhUW2/2niHIMHixDgzii2u2kE2GpP5z94405q6mDdFWj0fZz4
>> ++VccETlSazOk+Ky3+nO4k8oipWjX5f9d3a0HYHaA690BJlnL4vE3mkrynKrWMM=
>> =cJ0Q
>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
> And you still haven't learned how to control your signature?
> --
> Crash
>

Gordon is a bit S.L.O.W.

 

[DGDevin]

"housetrained" <housetrained@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4c57ec3e$0$5661$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...

> Most of those queries are from people with no idea what they are doing, to
> use your car analogy, it's like buying a car with no training and off you
> go. 99.9% of those queries are because of a cock-up by the user. Read them
> and weep. Blaming Big Bill Gates? You should have been around before
> Windows - you schmuck.

I was around before Windows (my first PC had an 8088 processor and obviously
ran DOS), and I liked XP and had little trouble getting it to do what I
wanted done. As I recently got a new computer I unwisely "upgraded" to
Windows 7, a decision I regret as W7 has been a pain in the butt. Among
other things much of the software I relied on and/or just liked will no
longer work, including software sold by MS just a few years ago and/or
software MS claims is 100% compatible with W7 but which nobody who isn't a
full-time programmer can get to run.

It isn't a question of "people with no idea" not being happy with W7, it's a
question of people who have used PCs for many years and are adept enough to
replace hard drives or video cards and make all their previous software run
properly suddenly being unhappy with Windows. Is it more likely those folks
are the problem, or is just possible some things about W7 are actually not
so great?

 

[Pulled Pork]

"DGDevin" <dgdevin@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:05SdndUzaMsw_MXRnZ2dnUVZ_s-dnZ2d@earthlink.com...
>
> "housetrained" <housetrained@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:4c57ec3e$0$5661$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...
>
>> Most of those queries are from people with no idea what they are doing,
>> to use your car analogy, it's like buying a car with no training and off
>> you go. 99.9% of those queries are because of a cock-up by the user. Read
>> them and weep. Blaming Big Bill Gates? You should have been around before
>> Windows - you schmuck.
>
> I was around before Windows (my first PC had an 8088 processor and
> obviously ran DOS), and I liked XP and had little trouble getting it to do
> what I wanted done. As I recently got a new computer I unwisely
> "upgraded" to Windows 7, a decision I regret as W7 has been a pain in the
> butt. Among other things much of the software I relied on and/or just
> liked will no longer work, including software sold by MS just a few years
> ago and/or software MS claims is 100% compatible with W7 but which nobody
> who isn't a full-time programmer can get to run.

Seems like you didn't do your homework. You should have checked to see if
your current software was compatible with Windows 7. Do you think all
software written on the MS platform should work with every OS? Of course
not.


>
> It isn't a question of "people with no idea" not being happy with W7, it's
> a question of people who have used PCs for many years and are adept enough
> to replace hard drives or video cards and make all their previous software
> run properly suddenly being unhappy with Windows. Is it more likely those
> folks are the problem, or is just possible some things about W7 are
> actually not so great?
>

The problem is idiot users who blindly upgrade and then figure out their
shit doesn't work. Then they blame the OS. Happens every day. Should have
stayed with Windows 98!

 

[Ken Blake]

On Tue, 3 Aug 2010 116:19 -0700, "DGDevin" <dgdevin@invalid.invalid>
wrote:

> I was around before Windows (my first PC had an 8088 processor and obviously
> ran DOS), and I liked XP and had little trouble getting it to do what I
> wanted done. As I recently got a new computer I unwisely "upgraded" to
> Windows 7, a decision I regret as W7 has been a pain in the butt. Among
> other things much of the software I relied on and/or just liked will no
> longer work, including software sold by MS just a few years ago and/or
> software MS claims is 100% compatible with W7 but which nobody who isn't a
> full-time programmer can get to run.
>
> It isn't a question of "people with no idea" not being happy with W7, it's a
> question of people who have used PCs for many years and are adept enough to
> replace hard drives or video cards and make all their previous software run
> properly suddenly being unhappy with Windows.


Just to put things into perspective, not everyone agrees with you, not
even those of us who have been around longer than you (I started with
computers in 1962, as a programmer on an IBM 1401. And my first PC was
also using DOS on an 8088 machine). And I worked as a computer
professional, both on mainframes and on PCs, for over 30 years, until
I retired 17 years ago.

I've used almost every version of Windows since 2.0 (except for the
NT-based systems that were called NT), and with a single exception
(Me), I thought every version was better than its predecessor. So as
much I liked XP I thought Vista was better, and I think 7 is better
still.

I'm not trying to talk you into liking something you don't like, but I
do want to point out that it is *not* generally true that "people who
have used PCs for many years and are adept enough to replace hard
drives or video cards and make all their previous software run
properly [are] suddenly unhappy with Windows."


> Is it more likely those folks
> are the problem, or is just possible some things about W7 are actually not
> so great?


Nothing is perfect, and we all have different views about everything.
Like you, I think some things about Windows 7 "are actually not
so great" and I would have done them differently if I were the
designer. But unlike you, my list of things I dislike are surely
different from yours. We're all different.

And interestingly, at least to me, some of the things about Windows 7
that I started out not liking, I now like. Give yourself some time to
get experience with what's new and learn what its advantages may be,
and you may find the same thing happening to you.

But despite there being "some things about W7 [that] are actually not
so great," I like it very much. In my view, it's far and away the best
version of Windows ever.

 

[LouB]

Ken Blake wrote:
> On Tue, 3 Aug 2010 116:19 -0700, "DGDevin" <dgdevin@invalid.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>> I was around before Windows (my first PC had an 8088 processor and obviously
>> ran DOS), and I liked XP and had little trouble getting it to do what I
>> wanted done. As I recently got a new computer I unwisely "upgraded" to
>> Windows 7, a decision I regret as W7 has been a pain in the butt. Among
>> other things much of the software I relied on and/or just liked will no
>> longer work, including software sold by MS just a few years ago and/or
>> software MS claims is 100% compatible with W7 but which nobody who isn't a
>> full-time programmer can get to run.
>>
>> It isn't a question of "people with no idea" not being happy with W7, it's a
>> question of people who have used PCs for many years and are adept enough to
>> replace hard drives or video cards and make all their previous software run
>> properly suddenly being unhappy with Windows.
>
>
> Just to put things into perspective, not everyone agrees with you, not
> even those of us who have been around longer than you (I started with
> computers in 1962, as a programmer on an IBM 1401. And my first PC was
> also using DOS on an 8088 machine). And I worked as a computer
> professional, both on mainframes and on PCs, for over 30 years, until
> I retired 17 years ago.
>
> I've used almost every version of Windows since 2.0 (except for the
> NT-based systems that were called NT), and with a single exception
> (Me), I thought every version was better than its predecessor. So as
> much I liked XP I thought Vista was better, and I think 7 is better
> still.
>
> I'm not trying to talk you into liking something you don't like, but I
> do want to point out that it is *not* generally true that "people who
> have used PCs for many years and are adept enough to replace hard
> drives or video cards and make all their previous software run
> properly [are] suddenly unhappy with Windows."
>
>
>> Is it more likely those folks
>> are the problem, or is just possible some things about W7 are actually not
>> so great?
>
>
> Nothing is perfect, and we all have different views about everything.
> Like you, I think some things about Windows 7 "are actually not
> so great" and I would have done them differently if I were the
> designer. But unlike you, my list of things I dislike are surely
> different from yours. We're all different.
>
> And interestingly, at least to me, some of the things about Windows 7
> that I started out not liking, I now like. Give yourself some time to
> get experience with what's new and learn what its advantages may be,
> and you may find the same thing happening to you.
>
> But despite there being "some things about W7 [that] are actually not
> so great," I like it very much. In my view, it's far and away the best
> version of Windows ever.
>
No one in is too happy with new things so the OP is normal.

Agree on Win 7

 

[DGDevin]

"Pulled Pork" <pulled@pork.gov> wrote in message
news:4c586537@news.x-privat.org...

> Seems like you didn't do your homework. You should have checked to see if
> your current software was compatible with Windows 7. Do you think all
> software written on the MS platform should work with every OS? Of course
> not.

I went to the MS Win 7 compatibility page to check on the software I
especially wanted to keep. Some of that software wasn't even listed. In
other cases MS said various software titles would run fine, others would
need work, and some wouldn't work at all. My mistake was in then not
scouring the user comments linked lower on the page that reveal MS's "100%
compatible" rating is in some cases nonsense. So if that qualifies as not
doing my homework, then I'm guilty. Of course it's not too late to dust off
my XP Pro disc and reinstall it along with all that software that worked
just fine until a couple of weeks ago since it looks like XP will be
supported with at least security updates until 2014....

 

[DGDevin]

"Ken Blake" <kblake@this.is.invalid.com> wrote in message
news:l9qg569rvssei28o74bs20qvqq9tnpm6h0@4ax.com...

> And interestingly, at least to me, some of the things about Windows 7
> that I started out not liking, I now like. Give yourself some time to
> get experience with what's new and learn what its advantages may be,
> and you may find the same thing happening to you.
>
> But despite there being "some things about W7 [that] are actually not
> so great," I like it very much. In my view, it's far and away the best
> version of Windows ever.

I've found things I like, e.g. the search function which IMO is miles better
than in XP. But for everything I like there is something I really dislike,
as in being unable to adjust screen resolution in XP Mode (which a MS rep
strongly advised me not to attempt) so I have to put up with microscopic
icons and text in XP Mode. And XP Mode is where I run Outlook Express since
MS decided that under Win 7 I don't need OE, instead I need to use Hotmail
for e-mail. If I'd wanted a Hotmail account I'd have opened one years ago,
and I resent MS trying to push me into having one now.

Of course I don't expect old software to run forever, but I do expect that
when MS says it will run that it actually will. But instead I'm supposed to
start changing code on the word of some user on a MS forum who might or
might not know what he's talking about, because the official MS reps are
silent on the subject of why the software they say is compatible doesn't
actually seem to work anymore.

Meanwhile my wife got a new Mac recently, and all she had to do to configure
internet access was type her e-mail address, that's it, the OS did
everything else. I've resisted buying a Mac for over twenty years, but I
had to admit that was impressive. Imagine that, a computer that works like
it's supposed to for someone who doesn't write code as a hobby.

BTW, I appreciate you disagreeing like a grownup instead of a maladjusted
teenager, too bad more people here can't manage that. ;~)

 

[Char Jackson]

On Tue, 3 Aug 2010 14:28:28 -0700, "DGDevin" <dgdevin@invalid.invalid>
wrote:

>I've found things I like, e.g. the search function which IMO is miles better
>than in XP. But for everything I like there is something I really dislike,
>as in being unable to adjust screen resolution in XP Mode (which a MS rep
>strongly advised me not to attempt) so I have to put up with microscopic
>icons and text in XP Mode. And XP Mode is where I run Outlook Express since
>MS decided that under Win 7 I don't need OE, instead I need to use Hotmail
>for e-mail. If I'd wanted a Hotmail account I'd have opened one years ago,
>and I resent MS trying to push me into having one now.

You were either misinformed or you misunderstood. You don't need to
use Hotmail with Windows 7, or any given email service. You're free to
use any email service, or even none at all. You can also choose from
dozens of email clients, trying as many as you like until you're able
to decide for yourself which best meets your needs.

>Meanwhile my wife got a new Mac recently, and all she had to do to configure
>internet access was type her e-mail address, that's it, the OS did
>everything else. I've resisted buying a Mac for over twenty years, but I
>had to admit that was impressive. Imagine that, a computer that works like
>it's supposed to for someone who doesn't write code as a hobby.

I'm sorry, but it's impossible to configure Internet access with
(just) an email address. Internet access has nothing to do with email.

If you meant it auto configured email access with just an email
address, well that's not possible either. At the very minimum, you'll
need to provide your password, and in nearly every case you'll also
need to provide mail server information, as well.

 

[KCB]

"DGDevin" <dgdevin@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:7L2dnbqvHomaF8XRnZ2dnUVZ_sqdnZ2d@earthlink.com...
>
> "Ken Blake" <kblake@this.is.invalid.com> wrote in message
> news:l9qg569rvssei28o74bs20qvqq9tnpm6h0@4ax.com...
>
>> And interestingly, at least to me, some of the things about Windows 7
>> that I started out not liking, I now like. Give yourself some time to
>> get experience with what's new and learn what its advantages may be,
>> and you may find the same thing happening to you.
>>
>> But despite there being "some things about W7 [that] are actually not
>> so great," I like it very much. In my view, it's far and away the best
>> version of Windows ever.
>
> I've found things I like, e.g. the search function which IMO is miles
> better than in XP. But for everything I like there is something I really
> dislike, as in being unable to adjust screen resolution in XP Mode (which
> a MS rep strongly advised me not to attempt) so I have to put up with
> microscopic icons and text in XP Mode. And XP Mode is where I run Outlook
> Express since MS decided that under Win 7 I don't need OE, instead I need
> to use Hotmail for e-mail. If I'd wanted a Hotmail account I'd have
> opened one years ago, and I resent MS trying to push me into having one
> now.

Have you tried Windows Live Mail?
It's very comparable to OE, but better.
I was an OE user from the time it was released until I built this Win7
machine.

 

[SC Tom]

"DGDevin" <dgdevin@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:7L2dnbqvHomaF8XRnZ2dnUVZ_sqdnZ2d@earthlink.com...
>
> "Ken Blake" <kblake@this.is.invalid.com> wrote in message
> news:l9qg569rvssei28o74bs20qvqq9tnpm6h0@4ax.com...
>
>> And interestingly, at least to me, some of the things about Windows 7
>> that I started out not liking, I now like. Give yourself some time to
>> get experience with what's new and learn what its advantages may be,
>> and you may find the same thing happening to you.
>>
>> But despite there being "some things about W7 [that] are actually not
>> so great," I like it very much. In my view, it's far and away the best
>> version of Windows ever.
>
> I've found things I like, e.g. the search function which IMO is miles
> better than in XP. But for everything I like there is something I really
> dislike, as in being unable to adjust screen resolution in XP Mode (which
> a MS rep strongly advised me not to attempt) so I have to put up with
> microscopic icons and text in XP Mode. And XP Mode is where I run Outlook
> Express since MS decided that under Win 7 I don't need OE, instead I need
> to use Hotmail for e-mail. If I'd wanted a Hotmail account I'd have
> opened one years ago, and I resent MS trying to push me into having one
> now.
>
> Of course I don't expect old software to run forever, but I do expect that
> when MS says it will run that it actually will. But instead I'm supposed
> to start changing code on the word of some user on a MS forum who might or
> might not know what he's talking about, because the official MS reps are
> silent on the subject of why the software they say is compatible doesn't
> actually seem to work anymore.
>
> Meanwhile my wife got a new Mac recently, and all she had to do to
> configure internet access was type her e-mail address, that's it, the OS
> did everything else. I've resisted buying a Mac for over twenty years,
> but I had to admit that was impressive. Imagine that, a computer that
> works like it's supposed to for someone who doesn't write code as a hobby.
>
> BTW, I appreciate you disagreeing like a grownup instead of a maladjusted
> teenager, too bad more people here can't manage that. ;~)
>
As another of the old timers, I find Windows 7 very much to my liking, and
(for me anyhow) is at least on an even par with XP. I run both- Win7 on my
notebook (upgraded from Vista) and XP on my desktop. If there was a direct
upgrade route from XP to 7, I'd have Win7 on it, too. I'd like to have my
TI-99/4A, but hardly anything would run on it now, since I'm sure my program
tapes (if I still had any) would be worthless by now.

I am yet to have the problems that I read of on the MS Answers and TechNet
forums. All of my software that I use (and some of it is quite old) runs
fine on Win7. In fact, I have two games that were made for Win95 that run
fine in Win7, but wouldn't even load without errors and lock-ups on XP. Go
figure! I had more software and hardware compatibility problems with Vista
than with Win7.

Another thing I notice on the forums is that hardly anyone has any idea that
a search function or Google even exists. There must be thousands of messages
from different people asking the same questions like "How do I make my HP
LJxxxx printer work in Windows 7?" or "icant find outhow to make my
mouseandkeyboard work." Few people there know how to ask a question. I can't
believe they've never had a problem with ANYthing before in their lives, let
alone a computer. How far would they get if they called up their local car
dealer and asked "My car makes noise. How do I fix it?" Not going to happen
without a long conversation, possible technical explanations, and the
inevitable request to bring it in for repairs and big bucks.

All in all, I think MS has done a fine job with Windows 7. And even though
MS says some piece of software will work, and it doesn't for you, doesn't
mean that it doesn't work. I doubt if their test PC's are the same as yours
with all the programs installed that you have, and are the same hardware
platform that yours is. Even though a lot of those results are from beta
testers and others who had pre-release versions, there may have been 10 out
of 1000 that had that particular piece of software work for them, so the
answer would be "Yes" that it works in Win7. I'm sure it doesn't work
exactly like that, but you get the idea

Most people don't like change (as mentioned by someone else), and I can
remember an electrical engineer that worked for us back when we had Win3.1
and DOS. I was a CNC programmer then, and suddenly inherited the network
admin job when the other one went to a different company (ours was a small
factory with about 25 PC's and 40 users). Inevitably the company upgraded to
Win95. I can remember spending more one-on-one time with Fred than anyone
else. He finally lost it one day when he couldn't find something in 95 that
he had always used in 3.1 (I don't recall exactly what), and everyone heard
his voice reverberating around the office, "Why the hell can't people just
leave stuff alone?" I'm sure the sentiment is the same with lots of people.
Of course, if that were the case, we'd all go coast to coast in Model T's
and biplanes
--
SC Tom

 

[Ken Blake]

On Tue, 3 Aug 2010 14:28:28 -0700, "DGDevin" <dgdevin@invalid.invalid>
wrote:

> And XP Mode is where I run Outlook Express since
> MS decided that under Win 7 I don't need OE, instead I need to use Hotmail
> for e-mail. If I'd wanted a Hotmail account I'd have opened one years ago,
> and I resent MS trying to push me into having one now.



Sorry, but that's not at all correct. You have *many* choices.

Outlook Express has been gone for several years. Windows XP was the
last version of Windows to include it.

Windows Vista had Windows Mail as its replacement (it's essentially a
newer version of Outlook Express), but that is also gone in Windows 7
(however it can be brought into Windows 7 from a Windows Vista
machine).

Windows 7 comes with *no* e-mail or newsgroup program. Although many
people object to this, I think it's a step in the right direction,
since it leaves everyone more free to choose whatever program(s) he
likes best. There are many choices available, both from Microsoft and
from third-parties. Some are free and some are for sale. Microsoft has
Windows Live Mail (which is essentially also a newer version of
Outlook Express/Windows Mail, with still another new name) available
for download for free and Outlook (a different program from outlook
express) available for sale, either alone or as part of Microsoft
Office.

Some people will tell you to use Windows Live Mail; others will tell
you to use Thunderbird; still others may have other recommendations.
My advice is to ignore all such recommendations. I personally use
Microsoft Outlook for e-mail and FortÊ Agent for newsgroups, but you
should try several and choose what *you* like best, rather than make
your decision based on what I, or anyone else, likes best (or even
what Microsoft suggests).

 

[R. C. White]

Hi, DG.

'Scuse me for piling on, but I'd like to join the "I Like Win7" chorus. ;<)

I'm a little older than Ken but didn't get into computers until 1977, with
the first TRS-80. Ken started with big machines; I started at the bottom
and worked up. My first MS-DOS machine was the Tandy 2000 in about 1983;
got that specifically to run Windows 1.0, which was due out Real Soon Now.
That machine was almost obsolete before Windows arrived. My first (and
only) NT version was WinNT 4.0, which I got as a bonus with something else.
I added that to Win95 for my first experience with dual-booting, just before
Win98 arrived. I got in on the tail end of the beta for Microsoft Internet
Mail and News; the exe file for OE is still called msimn.exe, isn't it? (I
even got the beta T-shirt, showing an anvil dropping on a bug. My son wore
that out.) OE was the first mail client that would let me collect mail and
news from all 4 of my ISPs without making 4 separate dial-up calls, and
that's what made me forget Pegasus and Netscape Communicator and several
others. Like so many other users, I continued to use OE through WinXP/OE6.

About the end of the Vista beta in 2006, some kind of disk error made my
WinXP refuse to boot, but I was just about fully migrated to Vista by then,
anyhow, so I've almost never booted WinXP again. Well, except for some
re-installation and testing, just to be sure I could get it going again.
After about 3 years on Vista and a couple on Win7 (including the betas),
there's no way I'd go back to WinXP! I haven't even bothered to install XP
Mode in Win7. The only app that I'd like to run that I can't was the
Calendar from the WordPerfect Office Library - but that was written for
about MS-DOS 5.1 and even if it would run on anything today I doubt that I
could find a copy.

As Ken said, Win7 comes with no mail/news client at all, but I like Windows
Live Mail, which is free from MS. I've likened it a Ford dealer who might
say, "No, your new car does not come with a radio. So you can shop anywhere
in town and install the one you like. Or, just drive around back and I'll
install a genuine Ford radio for free." WLMail is a LOT like OE on the
surface although there are significant differences under the hood. And this
new Wave 4 beta build that many of us are testing has some irritating bugs
that they sure need to work out before RTW. :^{

Enough! Win7 is not perfect. Nothing is. But Win7 is the best Windows
version I've used.

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX
rc@grandecom.net
Microsoft Windows MVP
Windows Live Mail 2010 (15.3.2804.0607) in Win7 Ultimate x64)


"DGDevin" wrote in message
news:7L2dnbqvHomaF8XRnZ2dnUVZ_sqdnZ2d@earthlink.com...

"Ken Blake" <kblake@this.is.invalid.com> wrote in message
news:l9qg569rvssei28o74bs20qvqq9tnpm6h0@4ax.com...

> And interestingly, at least to me, some of the things about Windows 7
> that I started out not liking, I now like. Give yourself some time to
> get experience with what's new and learn what its advantages may be,
> and you may find the same thing happening to you.
>
> But despite there being "some things about W7 [that] are actually not
> so great," I like it very much. In my view, it's far and away the best
> version of Windows ever.

I've found things I like, e.g. the search function which IMO is miles better
than in XP. But for everything I like there is something I really dislike,
as in being unable to adjust screen resolution in XP Mode (which a MS rep
strongly advised me not to attempt) so I have to put up with microscopic
icons and text in XP Mode. And XP Mode is where I run Outlook Express since
MS decided that under Win 7 I don't need OE, instead I need to use Hotmail
for e-mail. If I'd wanted a Hotmail account I'd have opened one years ago,
and I resent MS trying to push me into having one now.

Of course I don't expect old software to run forever, but I do expect that
when MS says it will run that it actually will. But instead I'm supposed to
start changing code on the word of some user on a MS forum who might or
might not know what he's talking about, because the official MS reps are
silent on the subject of why the software they say is compatible doesn't
actually seem to work anymore.

Meanwhile my wife got a new Mac recently, and all she had to do to configure
internet access was type her e-mail address, that's it, the OS did
everything else. I've resisted buying a Mac for over twenty years, but I
had to admit that was impressive. Imagine that, a computer that works like
it's supposed to for someone who doesn't write code as a hobby.

BTW, I appreciate you disagreeing like a grownup instead of a maladjusted
teenager, too bad more people here can't manage that. ;~)

 

[Ken Blake]

On Tue, 3 Aug 2010 22:013 -0500, "R. C. White" <rc@grandecom.net>
wrote:


> As Ken said, Win7 comes with no mail/news client at all, but I like Windows
> Live Mail, which is free from MS.


RC , thanks for reinforcing my point: you like Windows Live Mail, and
I don't. I don't claim that I'm right and you're wrong. We all have
different tastes and different needs.



> Enough! Win7 is not perfect. Nothing is.


Exactly right!


> But Win7 is the best Windows
> version I've used.

 

[DGDevin]

"Ken Blake" <kblake@this.is.invalid.com> wrote in message
news:17hh56ti0os10a0ecp6fu7lfoab582ni6d@4ax.com...

>> And XP Mode is where I run Outlook Express since
>> MS decided that under Win 7 I don't need OE, instead I need to use
>> Hotmail
>> for e-mail. If I'd wanted a Hotmail account I'd have opened one years
>> ago,
>> and I resent MS trying to push me into having one now.
>
>
>
> Sorry, but that's not at all correct. You have *many* choices.
>
> Outlook Express has been gone for several years. Windows XP was the
> last version of Windows to include it.

MS seems to want to make sure OE stays away. I've been using OE in XP Mode,
but today I updated to Explorer 8 for the XP installation. This resulted in
me being unable to enter text with OE--I could read mail or Usenet posts,
but I could not respond. So I uninstalled Explorer 8--shazam, OE worked
again. That's an odd coincidence, isn't it?

I was looking at T-Bird for mail and news until I realized OE was still
viable in XP Mode, now MS appears to want to turn off that option.

> Windows 7 comes with *no* e-mail or newsgroup program. Although many
> people object to this, I think it's a step in the right direction,
> since it leaves everyone more free to choose whatever program(s) he
> likes best.

We all had that option in the past, so far as I'm aware I could have used
Thunderbird or Agent or whatever I wished with XP. I used OE because it was
convenient and it worked fine for me. But now I have no choice but to make
other arrangements, and that is like buying a car that comes without a radio
and being told that's a positive step because now I can choose any brand of
radio I want. It strikes me that not having to go looking for a radio was
kind of a nice feature.

> There are many choices available, both from Microsoft and
> from third-parties. Some are free and some are for sale. Microsoft has
> Windows Live Mail (which is essentially also a newer version of
> Outlook Express/Windows Mail, with still another new name) available
> for download for free and Outlook (a different program from outlook
> express) available for sale, either alone or as part of Microsoft
> Office.

I tried Windows Live and didn't like it, I've never liked web mail and that
seems to be all Live is. Somebody else posted that I don't need to use
Hotmail for Windows Live, I'd like to learn more about how to use Windows
Live without opening a Hotmail account. I considered buying Outlook until I
learned it doesn't have a news reader (something MS avoids mentioning). In
fact I e-mailed MS to ask about that and got a reply that said Outlook 2007
does news, but no admission that Outlook 2010 (the version I had asked
about) does not do news.

> Some people will tell you to use Windows Live Mail; others will tell
> you to use Thunderbird; still others may have other recommendations.
> My advice is to ignore all such recommendations. I personally use
> Microsoft Outlook for e-mail and FortÊ Agent for newsgroups, but you
> should try several and choose what *you* like best, rather than make
> your decision based on what I, or anyone else, likes best (or even
> what Microsoft suggests).

I confess, If It Ain't Broke Then Don't Try To Fix It makes sense to me. So
I don't see Windows 7's lack of mail and news software to be an advantage.
Finding out I need to go shopping for digital photo software since my
three-year-old MS digital photo software no longer runs under W7 doesn't
seem like an advantage, neither does one software title after another being
inoperable (despite MS's claim that they'll run fine, in sharp contrast to
what a gazillion users have to say) seem like a positive step.

It's not like I'm technologically helpless, I'm on my 7th PC and I've
managed to solve a lot of hardware and software problems over the years
(with some help of course). Geez, my wife and I successfully installed a
new home theatre setup last weekend, some folks need Geek Squad for that. I
also realize a new OS means some big changes and a new learning curve. I'm
just finding that some of the decisions MS made with W7 are pointlessly
inconvenient, and they are being less than candid about how easy it is to
work around some of the problems they have created.

Now I think I'll go ask them why installing Explorer 8 disables OE in XP
Mode....

 

[DGDevin]

"Char Jackson" <none@none.invalid> wrote in message
news:r36h561tse8h8f48vdbcee023u2on2oh9f@4ax.com...

>>Meanwhile my wife got a new Mac recently, and all she had to do to
>>configure
>>internet access was type her e-mail address, that's it, the OS did
>>everything else. I've resisted buying a Mac for over twenty years, but I
>>had to admit that was impressive. Imagine that, a computer that works
>>like
>>it's supposed to for someone who doesn't write code as a hobby.
>
> I'm sorry, but it's impossible to configure Internet access with
> (just) an email address. Internet access has nothing to do with email.
>
> If you meant it auto configured email access with just an email
> address, well that's not possible either. At the very minimum, you'll
> need to provide your password, and in nearly every case you'll also
> need to provide mail server information, as well.

I stood two feet away and watched it done. Plugged the Mac into the router,
no server info, just the e-mail address (and yes, perhaps the password).
That was it, the software either knew everything it needed to know about the
ISP or instantly found it online. That was slick.