win 7 ultimate format

[Gene E. Bloch]

On Sun, 21 Mar 2010 07:594 -0500, Barry$ wrote:

> Will be giving away my current computer, with win 7 ultimate...........
> What's the easiest/fastest way to format the HD, without buying any
> software?
> Thanks
> Barry Austex

I use Eraser, free from Heidi Computers, Ltd.
http://eraser.heidi.ie/

It takes a long time, even if you choose to overwrite the disk only once,
because there's a lot of data to overwrite.

Format first, then erase free space. I say that because I don't think
Eraser will overwrite the used space - but I haven't used it in a while, so
I could be wrong.

--
Gene E. Bloch letters0x40blochg0x2Ecom

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

On Mon, 22 Mar 2010 1705 -0400, "MJMIII" <balrog@castaway.net>
wrote:

> How does a true low-level format destroy the drive? I've done it twice
> before....once recommended by Gateway (many years ago), and more recently by
> Dell.


If it was many years ago, it was probably back in the days when the
kind of drives available could be low-level formatted.

With the more recent "low-level" format on the Dell, Dell probably
misused the term and called writing zeroes everywhere on the drive a
low-level format. As I said earlier, the term is often misused that
way.


> "Ken Blake, MVP" <kblake@this.is.an.invalid.domain> wrote in message
> news:hsdfq55c12ju7navn9m501rakmbf4k8gb8@4ax.com...
> > On Mon, 22 Mar 2010 14:22:19 -0400, "Chuck" <cdknospam@cox.net> wrote:
> >
> >> The Mfr's drive specific utilities can usually be downloaded and used to
> >> do
> >> what now passes for a "low level" format.
> >
> >
> > Yes, as I said, some people (and even some manufacturers) misuse the
> > term "low-level format" that way. But the problem is that if you
> > recommend to someone that he do a low-level format and if he comes
> > across and uses a older *real* low-level format utility, he can
> > destroy his drive. For that reason, I think it's very important to
> > never use the term in a recommendation to anyone.
> >
> >
> >
> >> That aside, the "shadow copy" feature can cause problems with selectively
> >> removing personal files and info from a drive if
> >> a full "erase" and multi rewrite to crypto standards is not desired.
> >>
> >> I'd likely use a CD copy of Linux and utilities to totally clean off the
> >> drive and start over with a new windows install.
> >> (Easily available on the web for the time to download, and the cost of a
> >> CD/DVD.
> >>
> >> Trial and limited use versions of more commonly known disk utilities are
> >> also out there.
> >>
> >>
> >> "Ken Blake, MVP" <kblake@this.is.an.invalid.domain> wrote in message
> >> news:cq5fq5d6ectnirqnkt5r7bcn3gtslogmhd@4ax.com...
> >> > On Sun, 21 Mar 2010 21:12:06 -0400, Mr doe <Mrdoe@blowfish.net> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Char Jackson wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> > I've given away a few dozen PC's in the last 10-plus years, but
> >> >> > never
> >> >> > to anyone I know. I agree with the folks who recommend wiping the
> >> >> > drive. Formatting or repartitioning aren't good enough, IMO. Data
> >> >> > can
> >> >> > easily be recovered after those operations.
> >> >> >
> >> >> LOW level Format. Write Zeros to the Drive .
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Be aware that, although many people call writing zeroes to the drive
> >> > low-level formatting, that is *not* what it is. Low-level formatting
> >> > should never be done to a modern drive, and will destroy it.
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP (Windows Desktop Experience) since 2003
> >> > Please Reply to the Newsgroup
> >>
> >
> > --
> > Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP (Windows Desktop Experience) since 2003
> > Please Reply to the Newsgroup

--
Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP (Windows Desktop Experience) since 2003
Please Reply to the Newsgroup

 

[Seth]

"Ken Blake, MVP" <kblake@this.is.an.invalid.domain> wrote in message
news:1d7gq55rnat49s7sedqvvu1uc8tcir0a36@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 22 Mar 2010 1705 -0400, "MJMIII" <balrog@castaway.net>
> wrote:
>
>> How does a true low-level format destroy the drive? I've done it twice
>> before....once recommended by Gateway (many years ago), and more recently
>> by
>> Dell.
>
>
> If it was many years ago, it was probably back in the days when the
> kind of drives available could be low-level formatted.

Ahh, nostalgia... Back when doing a low-level format was...

A:>debug [Return]
> g=c800 [Return]

(at least I think that was the command...)

 

[MJMIII]

"Seth" <seth_lermanNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:hoa5os$p8c$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> "Ken Blake, MVP" <kblake@this.is.an.invalid.domain> wrote in message
> news:1d7gq55rnat49s7sedqvvu1uc8tcir0a36@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 22 Mar 2010 1705 -0400, "MJMIII" <balrog@castaway.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> How does a true low-level format destroy the drive? I've done it twice
>>> before....once recommended by Gateway (many years ago), and more
>>> recently by
>>> Dell.
>>
>>
>> If it was many years ago, it was probably back in the days when the
>> kind of drives available could be low-level formatted.
>
> Ahh, nostalgia... Back when doing a low-level format was...
>
> A:>debug [Return]
>> g=c800 [Return]
>
> (at least I think that was the command...)

Back in '98 Gateway sent me to Maxtor's website to d/l their utility. All I
had to do was boot to floppy and it ran automatically. A 10GB drive took
almost 3 hours to LL format. I'd still like to know how this can destroy a
drive?
--


"Don't pick a fight with an old man.
If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you."

 

[R. C. White]

Hi, Seth.

I vaguely recall that debug command - but that was for floppies, wasn't it?

It's been at least a dozen years since I did an LLF. Back then I was
running SCSI-only; didn't get my first IDE HDD until about the year 2000.
My favorite drives then were SyQuest SyJet 1.5 GB removable cartridge
drives, in addition to a couple of internal HDDs (measured in MB, not G,
all running off an Adaptec 2940 SCSI host adapter. Support software for the
SyJets included an LLF utility - and I had to use it several times.

A Low Level Format is NOT as simple as writing all zeroes to the disk. As I
understand it, you cannot write all zeroes - or anything else - to the disk
surface until AFTER the LLF has been done. The LLF creates the tracks and
sectors into which data can be written. That's what we mean by "low level".
("How many tracks would you like to create on this disk, and into how many
sectors would you like each track divided?") But I'm an accountant, not a
techie, so someone else will have to furnish details.

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX
rc@grandecom.net
Microsoft Windows MVP
Windows Live Mail 2009 (14.0.8089.0726) in Win7 Ultimate x64

"Seth" <seth_lermanNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:hoa5os$p8c$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> "Ken Blake, MVP" <kblake@this.is.an.invalid.domain> wrote in message
> news:1d7gq55rnat49s7sedqvvu1uc8tcir0a36@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 22 Mar 2010 1705 -0400, "MJMIII" <balrog@castaway.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> How does a true low-level format destroy the drive? I've done it twice
>>> before....once recommended by Gateway (many years ago), and more
>>> recently by
>>> Dell.
>>
>>
>> If it was many years ago, it was probably back in the days when the
>> kind of drives available could be low-level formatted.
>
> Ahh, nostalgia... Back when doing a low-level format was...
>
> A:>debug [Return]
>> g=c800 [Return]
>
> (at least I think that was the command...)

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

On Tue, 23 Mar 2010 07:22:53 -0400, "MJMIII" <balrog@castaway.net>
wrote:

> "Seth" <seth_lermanNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:hoa5os$p8c$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> > "Ken Blake, MVP" <kblake@this.is.an.invalid.domain> wrote in message
> > news:1d7gq55rnat49s7sedqvvu1uc8tcir0a36@4ax.com...
> >> On Mon, 22 Mar 2010 1705 -0400, "MJMIII" <balrog@castaway.net>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> How does a true low-level format destroy the drive? I've done it twice
> >>> before....once recommended by Gateway (many years ago), and more
> >>> recently by
> >>> Dell.
> >>
> >>
> >> If it was many years ago, it was probably back in the days when the
> >> kind of drives available could be low-level formatted.
> >
> > Ahh, nostalgia... Back when doing a low-level format was...
> >
> > A:>debug [Return]
> >> g=c800 [Return]
> >
> > (at least I think that was the command...)
>
> Back in '98 Gateway sent me to Maxtor's website to d/l their utility. All I
> had to do was boot to floppy and it ran automatically. A 10GB drive took
> almost 3 hours to LL format. I'd still like to know how this can destroy a
> drive?


Drives have changed very greatly over the years. Today's technology is
different from what it used to be. If what you ran in 98 was a true
low-level format program, rather than just a zero-fill program, it
didn't destroy the drive because the kind of drive it was was one that
could be low-level formatted. If you were to do the same thing with
today's drives, you would destroy it.

Read here for more information on this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-level_format


--
Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP (Windows Desktop Experience) since 2003
Please Reply to the Newsgroup

 

[Seth]

"R. C. White" <rc@grandecom.net> wrote in message
news:BNKdndiodMdUWzXWnZ2dnUVZ_s6dnZ2d@posted.grandecom...
> Hi, Seth.
>
> I vaguely recall that debug command - but that was for floppies, wasn't
> it?

Nope, for hard disks. But we're talking about back in the day where the
majority of drives a consumer would have their hands on were MFM or RLL and
in the 10 to 40MB range.

> It's been at least a dozen years since I did an LLF. Back then I was
> running SCSI-only; didn't get my first IDE HDD until about the year 2000.
> My favorite drives then were SyQuest SyJet 1.5 GB removable cartridge
> drives, in addition to a couple of internal HDDs (measured in MB, not G,
> all running off an Adaptec 2940 SCSI host adapter. Support software for
> the SyJets included an LLF utility - and I had to use it several times.

Much of the SCSI architecture originated in the ESDI interface.

> A Low Level Format is NOT as simple as writing all zeroes to the disk. As
> I understand it, you cannot write all zeroes - or anything else - to the
> disk surface until AFTER the LLF has been done. The LLF creates the
> tracks and sectors into which data can be written. That's what we mean by
> "low level". ("How many tracks would you like to create on this disk, and
> into how many sectors would you like each track divided?") But I'm an
> accountant, not a techie, so someone else will have to furnish details.

Yes, the LLF is what put down the tracks and sector map and had to be paired
with the adapter architecture. Often times one would have to re-LLF a drive
is changing it's orientation (like from vertically mounted to horizontal).

 

[MJMIII]

"Ken Blake, MVP" <kblake@this.is.an.invalid.domain> wrote in message
news:52lhq59vjtge2g4r1sh2pt1hpc61p84num@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 23 Mar 2010 07:22:53 -0400, "MJMIII" <balrog@castaway.net>
> wrote:
>
>> "Seth" <seth_lermanNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:hoa5os$p8c$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>> > "Ken Blake, MVP" <kblake@this.is.an.invalid.domain> wrote in message
>> > news:1d7gq55rnat49s7sedqvvu1uc8tcir0a36@4ax.com...
>> >> On Mon, 22 Mar 2010 1705 -0400, "MJMIII" <balrog@castaway.net>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> How does a true low-level format destroy the drive? I've done it
>> >>> twice
>> >>> before....once recommended by Gateway (many years ago), and more
>> >>> recently by
>> >>> Dell.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> If it was many years ago, it was probably back in the days when the
>> >> kind of drives available could be low-level formatted.
>> >
>> > Ahh, nostalgia... Back when doing a low-level format was...
>> >
>> > A:>debug [Return]
>> >> g=c800 [Return]
>> >
>> > (at least I think that was the command...)
>>
>> Back in '98 Gateway sent me to Maxtor's website to d/l their utility.
>> All I
>> had to do was boot to floppy and it ran automatically. A 10GB drive took
>> almost 3 hours to LL format. I'd still like to know how this can destroy
>> a
>> drive?
>
>
> Drives have changed very greatly over the years. Today's technology is
> different from what it used to be. If what you ran in 98 was a true
> low-level format program, rather than just a zero-fill program, it
> didn't destroy the drive because the kind of drive it was was one that
> could be low-level formatted. If you were to do the same thing with
> today's drives, you would destroy it.
>
> Read here for more information on this:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-level_format

Thanks Ken. So in essence what I did was a reinitialization of the drives
since, technically, you can no longer do a true LLF on newer drives. Very
interesting and informative article.
--


"Don't pick a fight with an old man.
If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you."

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

On Tue, 23 Mar 2010 12:29:59 -0400, "MJMIII" <balrog@castaway.net>
wrote:

> "Ken Blake, MVP" <kblake@this.is.an.invalid.domain> wrote in message
> news:52lhq59vjtge2g4r1sh2pt1hpc61p84num@4ax.com...
> > On Tue, 23 Mar 2010 07:22:53 -0400, "MJMIII" <balrog@castaway.net>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> "Seth" <seth_lermanNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >> news:hoa5os$p8c$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> >> > "Ken Blake, MVP" <kblake@this.is.an.invalid.domain> wrote in message
> >> > news:1d7gq55rnat49s7sedqvvu1uc8tcir0a36@4ax.com...
> >> >> On Mon, 22 Mar 2010 1705 -0400, "MJMIII" <balrog@castaway.net>
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>> How does a true low-level format destroy the drive? I've done it
> >> >>> twice
> >> >>> before....once recommended by Gateway (many years ago), and more
> >> >>> recently by
> >> >>> Dell.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> If it was many years ago, it was probably back in the days when the
> >> >> kind of drives available could be low-level formatted.
> >> >
> >> > Ahh, nostalgia... Back when doing a low-level format was...
> >> >
> >> > A:>debug [Return]
> >> >> g=c800 [Return]
> >> >
> >> > (at least I think that was the command...)
> >>
> >> Back in '98 Gateway sent me to Maxtor's website to d/l their utility.
> >> All I
> >> had to do was boot to floppy and it ran automatically. A 10GB drive took
> >> almost 3 hours to LL format. I'd still like to know how this can destroy
> >> a
> >> drive?
> >
> >
> > Drives have changed very greatly over the years. Today's technology is
> > different from what it used to be. If what you ran in 98 was a true
> > low-level format program, rather than just a zero-fill program, it
> > didn't destroy the drive because the kind of drive it was was one that
> > could be low-level formatted. If you were to do the same thing with
> > today's drives, you would destroy it.
> >
> > Read here for more information on this:
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-level_format
>
> Thanks Ken.


You're welcome. Glad to help.



> So in essence what I did was a reinitialization of the drives
> since, technically, you can no longer do a true LLF on newer drives.


Right. That was the point that I started here with.


> Very interesting and informative article.
> --
>
>
> "Don't pick a fight with an old man.
> If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you."
>

--
Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP (Windows Desktop Experience) since 2003
Please Reply to the Newsgroup

 

[Sam E]

On Sun, 21 Mar 2010 21:12:06 -0400, Mr doe <Mrdoe@blowfish.net> wrote:


[snip]

>LOW level Format. Write Zeros to the Drive .

Writing zeros is a good idea. Note that that is only A SMALL PART of a
low level format, most of which can only be done with special
equipment at the factory.

 

[Gary H]

On Mon, 22 Mar 2010 09:15:40 -0700, "Ken Blake, MVP"
<kblake@this.is.an.invalid.domain> wrote:

>On Sun, 21 Mar 2010 21:12:06 -0400, Mr doe <Mrdoe@blowfish.net> wrote:
>
>> Char Jackson wrote:
>
>> > I've given away a few dozen PC's in the last 10-plus years, but never
>> > to anyone I know. I agree with the folks who recommend wiping the
>> > drive. Formatting or repartitioning aren't good enough, IMO. Data can
>> > easily be recovered after those operations.
>> >
>> LOW level Format. Write Zeros to the Drive .
>
>Be aware that, although many people call writing zeroes to the drive
>low-level formatting, that is *not* what it is. Low-level formatting
>should never be done to a modern drive, and will destroy it.

Actually, it's not possible with modern drives.

 

[Mark Lloyd]

On Tue, 23 Mar 2010 069:20 -0400, "Seth"
<seth_lermanNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote:

>"Ken Blake, MVP" <kblake@this.is.an.invalid.domain> wrote in message
>news:1d7gq55rnat49s7sedqvvu1uc8tcir0a36@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 22 Mar 2010 1705 -0400, "MJMIII" <balrog@castaway.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> How does a true low-level format destroy the drive? I've done it twice
>>> before....once recommended by Gateway (many years ago), and more recently
>>> by
>>> Dell.
>>
>>
>> If it was many years ago, it was probably back in the days when the
>> kind of drives available could be low-level formatted.
>
>Ahh, nostalgia... Back when doing a low-level format was...
>
>A:>debug [Return]
>> g=c800 [Return]
>
>(at least I think that was the command...)
>

My first HD (30MB RLL) required something like that, and then required
answering a lot of questions including interleave and entering a list
of defective sectors.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us

"I have never seen the slightest scientific proof of the religious
theories of heaven and hell, of future life for individuals, or of a
personal God." -- Thomas Edison (1847 - 1931), in Columbian Magazine

 

[Mark Lloyd]

On Tue, 23 Mar 2010 07:22:53 -0400, "MJMIII" <balrog@castaway.net>
wrote:

[snip]

>Back in '98 Gateway sent me to Maxtor's website to d/l their utility. All I
>had to do was boot to floppy and it ran automatically. A 10GB drive took
>almost 3 hours to LL format. I'd still like to know how this can destroy a
>drive?

For one thing, a real LLF requires knowing the REAL disk geometry
(heads, tracks, sectors), in order to create the sector headers. In
modern drives, this information is hidden from users. The LLF would
have the wrong information and would write incorrect sector headers.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us

"I have never seen the slightest scientific proof of the religious
theories of heaven and hell, of future life for individuals, or of a
personal God." -- Thomas Edison (1847 - 1931), in Columbian Magazine

 

[Joe]

On 24/03/2010 12:10 PM, Gary H wrote:
> On Mon, 22 Mar 2010 09:15:40 -0700, "Ken Blake, MVP"
> <kblake@this.is.an.invalid.domain> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 21 Mar 2010 21:12:06 -0400, Mr doe<Mrdoe@blowfish.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Char Jackson wrote:
>>
>>>> I've given away a few dozen PC's in the last 10-plus years, but never
>>>> to anyone I know. I agree with the folks who recommend wiping the
>>>> drive. Formatting or repartitioning aren't good enough, IMO. Data can
>>>> easily be recovered after those operations.
>>>>
>>> LOW level Format. Write Zeros to the Drive .
>>
>> Be aware that, although many people call writing zeroes to the drive
>> low-level formatting, that is *not* what it is. Low-level formatting
>> should never be done to a modern drive, and will destroy it.
>
> Actually, it's not possible with modern drives.

Well you can download utilities off the manufactures web sites to carry
out a low level format even on modern drives. making a bootable CD or
floppy with the utility.

 

[Gary H]

On Wed, 24 Mar 2010 12:53:42 +1100, Joe <mesa@mine.gmail.com> wrote:

[snip]

>Well you can download utilities off the manufactures web sites to carry
>out a low level format even on modern drives. making a bootable CD or
>floppy with the utility.

Of course it's NOT a low level format. It probably just writes 0 to
every byte of the disk. A lot level format is a lot more.