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What Will Be Your Last Post?

D

Dee Earley

Flightless Bird
On 28/05/2010 13:23, Dan wrote:
>
> "Duane Hebert" <spoo@flarn.com> wrote in message
> news:eOSK18l$KHA.5848@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>> "VanguardLH" <V@nguard.LH> wrote in message
>> news:hto1i4$rc6$1@news.albasani.net...
>>
>>> I asked my NSP as to their intentions regarding the microsoft.*
>>> newsgroups. Below is a snippet of their response:

>>
>> Perhaps if someone knows a free NNTP server that will host these, they
>> could
>> post it here. My ISP stopped supporting NNTP. I use GMane for most of my
>> groups but they don't host any MS groups.
>>
>> Why anyone would prefer these slow stupid web based things is beyond
>> me. Sounds like
>> a bunch of hoopleheads...

>
> There's an NNTP Bridge interface to the new web forums - it'll let you
> use a newsreader to access them just like you can the ms newsgroups now.
> It seems to work, but I haven't played with it much yet.


I went off it when it subscribed me to every group 4 times, then threw
errors about not being subscribed when I tried to access any of them
(TB3.1b2).

And then they said you needed two different bridges for the answers
section, and everything else.

--
Dee Earley (dee.earley@icode.co.uk)
i-Catcher Development Team

iCode Systems

(Replies direct to my email address will be ignored.
Please reply to the group.)
 
D

Dan

Flightless Bird
"Dee Earley" <dee.earley@icode.co.uk> wrote in message
news:-O#iv1pm$KHA.5044@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> On 28/05/2010 13:23, Dan wrote:
>>
>> "Duane Hebert" <spoo@flarn.com> wrote in message
>> news:eOSK18l$KHA.5848@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>>> "VanguardLH" <V@nguard.LH> wrote in message
>>> news:hto1i4$rc6$1@news.albasani.net...
>>>
>>>> I asked my NSP as to their intentions regarding the microsoft.*
>>>> newsgroups. Below is a snippet of their response:
>>>
>>> Perhaps if someone knows a free NNTP server that will host these, they
>>> could
>>> post it here. My ISP stopped supporting NNTP. I use GMane for most of my
>>> groups but they don't host any MS groups.
>>>
>>> Why anyone would prefer these slow stupid web based things is beyond
>>> me. Sounds like
>>> a bunch of hoopleheads...

>>
>> There's an NNTP Bridge interface to the new web forums - it'll let you
>> use a newsreader to access them just like you can the ms newsgroups now.
>> It seems to work, but I haven't played with it much yet.

>
> I went off it when it subscribed me to every group 4 times, then threw
> errors about not being subscribed when I tried to access any of them
> (TB3.1b2).
>
> And then they said you needed two different bridges for the answers
> section, and everything else.


I'm just trying the new Answers bridge - the Forums bridge doesn't work any
more, MS moved the social forums to the new Answers platform a few days ago
according to the email I received about the Bridge being changed, and a new
development team has taken over the Bridge.

--
Dan
 
D

Dan

Flightless Bird
"Dan" <news@worldofspack.com> wrote in message
news:-ORoz6rm$KHA.5168@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>
> "Dee Earley" <dee.earley@icode.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:-O#iv1pm$KHA.5044@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>> On 28/05/2010 13:23, Dan wrote:
>>>
>>> "Duane Hebert" <spoo@flarn.com> wrote in message
>>> news:eOSK18l$KHA.5848@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>>>> "VanguardLH" <V@nguard.LH> wrote in message
>>>> news:hto1i4$rc6$1@news.albasani.net...
>>>>
>>>>> I asked my NSP as to their intentions regarding the microsoft.*
>>>>> newsgroups. Below is a snippet of their response:
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps if someone knows a free NNTP server that will host these, they
>>>> could
>>>> post it here. My ISP stopped supporting NNTP. I use GMane for most of
>>>> my
>>>> groups but they don't host any MS groups.
>>>>
>>>> Why anyone would prefer these slow stupid web based things is beyond
>>>> me. Sounds like
>>>> a bunch of hoopleheads...
>>>
>>> There's an NNTP Bridge interface to the new web forums - it'll let you
>>> use a newsreader to access them just like you can the ms newsgroups now.
>>> It seems to work, but I haven't played with it much yet.

>>
>> I went off it when it subscribed me to every group 4 times, then threw
>> errors about not being subscribed when I tried to access any of them
>> (TB3.1b2).
>>
>> And then they said you needed two different bridges for the answers
>> section, and everything else.

>
> I'm just trying the new Answers bridge - the Forums bridge doesn't work
> any more, MS moved the social forums to the new Answers platform a few
> days ago according to the email I received about the Bridge being changed,
> and a new development team has taken over the Bridge.
>


Ignore me, I'm an idiot. Forums bridge is for "social" (which covers MSDN,
TechNet, and the msnews newsgroups), Answers is for the "answers" forums.
I've now started downloading groups for Forums to test it.

There is a new bridge in development that combines Forums and Answers, and
also has additional features like autologin, but it's still in beta although
it can be downloaded here: http://communitybridge.codeplex.com/ (latest
update is today)

--
Dan
 
D

Dan

Flightless Bird
"Dan" <news@worldofspack.com> wrote in message
news:-ON2E8Gn$KHA.1892@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>
> "Dan" <news@worldofspack.com> wrote in message
> news:-ORoz6rm$KHA.5168@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>>
>> "Dee Earley" <dee.earley@icode.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:-O#iv1pm$KHA.5044@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>>> On 28/05/2010 13:23, Dan wrote:
>>>>
>>>> "Duane Hebert" <spoo@flarn.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:eOSK18l$KHA.5848@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>>>>> "VanguardLH" <V@nguard.LH> wrote in message
>>>>> news:hto1i4$rc6$1@news.albasani.net...
>>>>>
>>>>>> I asked my NSP as to their intentions regarding the microsoft.*
>>>>>> newsgroups. Below is a snippet of their response:
>>>>>
>>>>> Perhaps if someone knows a free NNTP server that will host these, they
>>>>> could
>>>>> post it here. My ISP stopped supporting NNTP. I use GMane for most of
>>>>> my
>>>>> groups but they don't host any MS groups.
>>>>>
>>>>> Why anyone would prefer these slow stupid web based things is beyond
>>>>> me. Sounds like
>>>>> a bunch of hoopleheads...
>>>>
>>>> There's an NNTP Bridge interface to the new web forums - it'll let you
>>>> use a newsreader to access them just like you can the ms newsgroups
>>>> now.
>>>> It seems to work, but I haven't played with it much yet.
>>>
>>> I went off it when it subscribed me to every group 4 times, then threw
>>> errors about not being subscribed when I tried to access any of them
>>> (TB3.1b2).
>>>
>>> And then they said you needed two different bridges for the answers
>>> section, and everything else.

>>
>> I'm just trying the new Answers bridge - the Forums bridge doesn't work
>> any more, MS moved the social forums to the new Answers platform a few
>> days ago according to the email I received about the Bridge being
>> changed, and a new development team has taken over the Bridge.
>>

>
> Ignore me, I'm an idiot. Forums bridge is for "social" (which covers MSDN,
> TechNet, and the msnews newsgroups), Answers is for the "answers" forums.
> I've now started downloading groups for Forums to test it.


Nah, I'm wrong again. This group is dead, I'd assumed that it was replicated
to one of the MS forums but it's not, it's just available via the
Communities web interface. The "new" IE group is
Answers.en-US.InternetExplorer via the Answers forums, but none of the posts
here are replicated there.

The Answers bridge is allowing me to read stuff, although I have adjusted
the settings to turn off pre-fetch and to only download new messages in the
past 90 days. I've just posted a reply to a message and it showed up in the
web interface immediately, so it appears to be working.

--
Dan
 
D

Duane Hebert

Flightless Bird
> Nah, I'm wrong again. This group is dead, I'd assumed that it was replicated
> to one of the MS forums but it's not, it's just available via the
> Communities web interface. The "new" IE group is
> Answers.en-US.InternetExplorer via the Answers forums, but none of the posts
> here are replicated there.
>
> The Answers bridge is allowing me to read stuff, although I have adjusted
> the settings to turn off pre-fetch and to only download new messages in the
> past 90 days. I've just posted a reply to a message and it showed up in the
> web interface immediately, so it appears to be working.


I was able to install and finally update the profile so that I can access groups. I only
have the answer groups and as you say, the IE one doesn't seem to have the posts from
here. I also couldn't find a windows live mail group nor any of the ms.public.vc.* groups that
I need.
 
V

VanguardLH

Flightless Bird
Dan wrote:

> "Duane Hebert" <spoo@flarn.com> wrote in message
> news:eOSK18l$KHA.5848@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>> "VanguardLH" <V@nguard.LH> wrote in message
>> news:hto1i4$rc6$1@news.albasani.net...
>>
>>> I asked my NSP as to their intentions regarding the microsoft.*
>>> newsgroups. Below is a snippet of their response:

>>
>> Perhaps if someone knows a free NNTP server that will host these, they
>> could
>> post it here. My ISP stopped supporting NNTP. I use GMane for most of my
>> groups but they don't host any MS groups.
>>
>> Why anyone would prefer these slow stupid web based things is beyond me.
>> Sounds like
>> a bunch of hoopleheads...

>
> There's an NNTP Bridge interface to the new web forums - it'll let you use a
> newsreader to access them just like you can the ms newsgroups now. It seems
> to work, but I haven't played with it much yet.


If you had trialed it, you wouldn't be using it anymore. Instead of
running the gateway up on the server where it belongs, as how do Usenet
leech web sites that operate their gateways to Usenet, Microsoft's
"solution" is to run the gateway on your host.

The local NNTP-to-forum gateway (NNTP bridge) does not automatically
login. You have to load it, manually login, and then load your
newsreader.

Because the Microsoft forums are often unavailable, so they are also
unavailable through the local NNTP-to-forum gateway.

According to a disclaimer on the proxy's login screen, Microsoft didn't
even write this software and why it doesn't get updated.

Their gateway does not produce value Message-ID header values. The
domain portion (to the right of the "@" character) is missing. This
causes problems in many newsreaders regarding threading and sorting.
This is a problem that is over a year old and still Microsoft (or
whomever codes the proxy) has not fixed it.

As bad as the web-based forums are, trying to get at them using
Microsoft's crapware local gateway makes access to them even worse.
 
V

VanguardLH

Flightless Bird
Rob wrote:

> My ISP has TWO NNTP servers. One with only text-based groups that they
> do support, and that carries microsoft.*. And one with binary groups
> that is offered as an unsupported service.
>
> However, the support department says that there are no official newgroup
> messages for the microsoft.* groups, and that they add/remove groups
> based on a simple script that compares their grouplist with that on the
> microsoft server.
> They will probably not remove the groups intentionally, but they explained
> me that a self-proclaimed microsoft.* group maintainer said that he would
> issue rmgroup messages once the microsoft server had disappeared.
> There is some risk that other server admins accept his messages and
> remove the groups.


You do not want to use any NNTP server that honors control messages from
non-admin/moderator accounts. If any are honored, they should only be
cancel messages from users against their own posts and use qualification
to ensure the user that posted is the one that cancelled. Doesn't sound
like your ISP actually has any knowledgeable folks maintaining their own
NNTP server.
 
V

VanguardLH

Flightless Bird
Duane Hebert wrote:

> Perhaps if someone knows a free NNTP server that will host these, they could
> post it here.


You mean like my ISP that I mentioned in my reply? You could also ask
over the in the alt.free.newsservers group.
 
D

Duane Hebert

Flightless Bird
"VanguardLH" <V@nguard.LH> wrote in message news:htouag$ebj$1@news.albasani.net...
> Duane Hebert wrote:
>
>> Perhaps if someone knows a free NNTP server that will host these, they could
>> post it here.

>
> You mean like my ISP that I mentioned in my reply? You could also ask
> over the in the alt.free.newsservers group.


If you're talking about Albasani.net, it doesn't seem free though there appears to
be a free read only access.
 
T

Twayne

Flightless Bird
A newsgroup post as a legacy? lol, don't think I'll be bothering. I'll just
go to where the newsgroups are still carried.
 
R

Rob

Flightless Bird
VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:
> Rob wrote:
>
>> My ISP has TWO NNTP servers. One with only text-based groups that they
>> do support, and that carries microsoft.*. And one with binary groups
>> that is offered as an unsupported service.
>>
>> However, the support department says that there are no official newgroup
>> messages for the microsoft.* groups, and that they add/remove groups
>> based on a simple script that compares their grouplist with that on the
>> microsoft server.
>> They will probably not remove the groups intentionally, but they explained
>> me that a self-proclaimed microsoft.* group maintainer said that he would
>> issue rmgroup messages once the microsoft server had disappeared.
>> There is some risk that other server admins accept his messages and
>> remove the groups.

>
> You do not want to use any NNTP server that honors control messages from
> non-admin/moderator accounts. If any are honored, they should only be
> cancel messages from users against their own posts and use qualification
> to ensure the user that posted is the one that cancelled. Doesn't sound
> like your ISP actually has any knowledgeable folks maintaining their own
> NNTP server.


It looks more like you did not read the posting carefully enough...
 
V

VanguardLH

Flightless Bird
Duane Hebert wrote:

> VanguardLH ...
>
>> Duane Hebert wrote:
>>
>>> Perhaps if someone knows a free NNTP server that will host these, they could
>>> post it here.

>>
>> You mean like my ISP that I mentioned in my reply? You could also ask
>> over the in the alt.free.newsservers group.

>
> If you're talking about Albasani.net, it doesn't seem free though
> there appears to be a free read only access.


And your explanation is what as to how I could be posting using their
NNTP server?
 
V

VanguardLH

Flightless Bird
Rob wrote:

> VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:
>> Rob wrote:
>>
>>> My ISP has TWO NNTP servers. One with only text-based groups that they
>>> do support, and that carries microsoft.*. And one with binary groups
>>> that is offered as an unsupported service.
>>>
>>> However, the support department says that there are no official newgroup
>>> messages for the microsoft.* groups, and that they add/remove groups
>>> based on a simple script that compares their grouplist with that on the
>>> microsoft server.
>>> They will probably not remove the groups intentionally, but they explained
>>> me that a self-proclaimed microsoft.* group maintainer said that he would
>>> issue rmgroup messages once the microsoft server had disappeared.
>>> There is some risk that other server admins accept his messages and
>>> remove the groups.

>>
>> You do not want to use any NNTP server that honors control messages from
>> non-admin/moderator accounts. If any are honored, they should only be
>> cancel messages from users against their own posts and use qualification
>> to ensure the user that posted is the one that cancelled. Doesn't sound
>> like your ISP actually has any knowledgeable folks maintaining their own
>> NNTP server.

>
> It looks more like you did not read the posting carefully enough...


Yes, I saw the part you wrote stating that your NSP uses a sync script
that relies on someone else's NNTP server to decide which newsgroups to
carry. That's their inance choice to rely on someone else to manage
their newsgroups. You'll get screwed because they're screwed by their
choice to let someone else make their choices.
 
R

Rob

Flightless Bird
VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:
> Rob wrote:
>
>> VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:
>>> Rob wrote:
>>>
>>>> My ISP has TWO NNTP servers. One with only text-based groups that they
>>>> do support, and that carries microsoft.*. And one with binary groups
>>>> that is offered as an unsupported service.
>>>>
>>>> However, the support department says that there are no official newgroup
>>>> messages for the microsoft.* groups, and that they add/remove groups
>>>> based on a simple script that compares their grouplist with that on the
>>>> microsoft server.
>>>> They will probably not remove the groups intentionally, but they explained
>>>> me that a self-proclaimed microsoft.* group maintainer said that he would
>>>> issue rmgroup messages once the microsoft server had disappeared.
>>>> There is some risk that other server admins accept his messages and
>>>> remove the groups.
>>>
>>> You do not want to use any NNTP server that honors control messages from
>>> non-admin/moderator accounts. If any are honored, they should only be
>>> cancel messages from users against their own posts and use qualification
>>> to ensure the user that posted is the one that cancelled. Doesn't sound
>>> like your ISP actually has any knowledgeable folks maintaining their own
>>> NNTP server.

>>
>> It looks more like you did not read the posting carefully enough...

>
> Yes, I saw the part you wrote stating that your NSP uses a sync script
> that relies on someone else's NNTP server to decide which newsgroups to
> carry. That's their inance choice to rely on someone else to manage
> their newsgroups. You'll get screwed because they're screwed by their
> choice to let someone else make their choices.


You may not know, but Microsoft is/was a bad usenet administrator in
that they did not send newgroup messages for the groups they created.
So, the rest of the world had no information to properly configure
their servers.
Everyone had to work around this stupid mistake. My provider decided
to sync their server to the grouplist at Microsoft. That is one approach.
Others synced to the newgroup messages sent by a self-appointed administrator
outside of Microsoft (who probably first did a similar sync, and then
fabricated newgroup messages that correspond to that list).
But unfortunately, this self-appointed administrator is now threatening
to send rmgroup messages.
So in fact, those that did their own sync (and now stop doing that) are
better off than those that relied on the fabricated newgroup messages.
Because when they trust that self-appointed administrator, the microsoft
groups are now going to be removed.
 
V

VanguardLH

Flightless Bird
Rob wrote:

> My provider decided to sync their server to the grouplist at
> Microsoft. That is one approach. Others synced to the newgroup
> messages sent by a self-appointed administrator outside of Microsoft
> (who probably first did a similar sync, and then fabricated newgroup
> messages that correspond to that list). But unfortunately, this
> self-appointed administrator is now threatening to send rmgroup
> messages.


I think that's the Julien Elie that I've seen mentioned elsewhere.
That's the self-appointed admin that my NSP mentions, too.
 
S

SC Tom

Flightless Bird
"PA Bear [MS MVP]" <PABearMVP@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ufZCrQi$KHA.3840@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> SC Tom wrote:
>>>> If you have to ask, you may be one.
>>>
>>> Googled it but only found hits involving posts by you.
>>> Most of those threads were terminated by <plonk>
>>> So one may assume that it means people that put you
>>> in their kill file <g>

>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Our_Boarding_House
>> Scroll down to the Legacy section ;-)

>
> OMG! How old are you (and Tom)? <eg>


Too old. . . :)
--
SC Tom
 
D

Duane Hebert

Flightless Bird
"VanguardLH" <V@nguard.LH> wrote in message
news:htpmu5$m4f$1@news.albasani.net...
> Duane Hebert wrote:
>
>> VanguardLH ...
>>
>>> Duane Hebert wrote:
>>>
>>>> Perhaps if someone knows a free NNTP server that will host these, they
>>>> could
>>>> post it here.
>>>
>>> You mean like my ISP that I mentioned in my reply? You could also ask
>>> over the in the alt.free.newsservers group.

>>
>> If you're talking about Albasani.net, it doesn't seem free though
>> there appears to be a free read only access.

>
> And your explanation is what as to how I could be posting using their
> NNTP server?


???

I asked if anyone knew of a good free server that hosted these.

You are referring me to a previous post where you mentioned yours
that is not free.

Where is the confusion?

I've been looking for a free server
and have only found GMane which I use for technical groups
but they don't host MS groups.
 
L

Leonard Grey

Flightless Bird
Not to get into a competition about how old is "too old", but...

The first computer I worked with was an IBM 1130.

The first 'modem' I worked with was called an acoustic coupler and used
a regular telephone.

We learned FORTRAN from a manual supplied (for free) by IBM.

The computer gurus of the day knew JCL really well.
---
Leonard Grey
Errare humanum est

SC Tom wrote:
>
> "PA Bear [MS MVP]" <PABearMVP@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:ufZCrQi$KHA.3840@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>> SC Tom wrote:
>>>>> If you have to ask, you may be one.
>>>>
>>>> Googled it but only found hits involving posts by you.
>>>> Most of those threads were terminated by <plonk>
>>>> So one may assume that it means people that put you
>>>> in their kill file <g>
>>>
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Our_Boarding_House
>>> Scroll down to the Legacy section ;-)

>>
>> OMG! How old are you (and Tom)? <eg>

>
> Too old. . . :)
 
R

Robert Aldwinckle

Flightless Bird
"Leonard Grey" <l.grey@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:eY#zu12$KHA.4388@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...


> The computer gurus of the day knew JCL really well.



Not to mention how to punch up the card for the punch card program drum...
<w>


---
 
S

SC Tom

Flightless Bird
Didn't say what I was too old for :)

First computer system I worked with was a FST-2 height-finder controller
(USAF). We also used acoustic couplers. Mm mm fun!

Although I used computers in various jobs after the service, I didn't get
back into computers at all until I bought a TI-99-4a way back when.

I never did get to do punch cards, but I had a job where I ran a tape punch
for a while.

So I guess I'm too old for some things, but still young enough for others.
--
SC Tom

"Leonard Grey" <l.grey@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:eY#zu12$KHA.4388@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> Not to get into a competition about how old is "too old", but...
>
> The first computer I worked with was an IBM 1130.
>
> The first 'modem' I worked with was called an acoustic coupler and used a
> regular telephone.
>
> We learned FORTRAN from a manual supplied (for free) by IBM.
>
> The computer gurus of the day knew JCL really well.
> ---
> Leonard Grey
> Errare humanum est
>
> SC Tom wrote:
>>
>> "PA Bear [MS MVP]" <PABearMVP@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:ufZCrQi$KHA.3840@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>>> SC Tom wrote:
>>>>>> If you have to ask, you may be one.
>>>>>
>>>>> Googled it but only found hits involving posts by you.
>>>>> Most of those threads were terminated by <plonk>
>>>>> So one may assume that it means people that put you
>>>>> in their kill file <g>
>>>>
>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Our_Boarding_House
>>>> Scroll down to the Legacy section ;-)
>>>
>>> OMG! How old are you (and Tom)? <eg>

>>
>> Too old. . . :)
 
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