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Debate Teacher Fail

Discussion in 'General Education Discussions' started by Robert Heiny, May 30, 2012.

  1. Robert Heiny

    Robert Heiny Research Scientist of Learning and Education Flight Instructor

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    [NOTICE] The posts about teachers were moved into their own thread and appropriate area of the board so that discussion may center on the topic.

    Jarring, yes, but not surprising. Stupid, I don't know. Is Forrest Gump stupid? And were the teachers of those 20 something percenters stupid and failed to obtain average or higher science scores on their tests?

    In any case, what difference does the rotation of the earth and sun make to most people's daily life today? Especially since they spend most of their time in buildings that someone else built and maintains. So, let those who make buildings care about the validity and utility of models of climate change. Yes?
     
  2. LPH

    LPH Flight Director Flight Instructor

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    No. A society is only as strong as the weakest person. If you intentionally allow someone to be stupid then you are just treating them as fodder. And that is unacceptable because it lowers the value of your own life. Every life is valuable. Is your argument really that Americans fail to learn because they don't need to? Who is to choose who builds and who just lives in the building?

    Update: Edited to meet new thread topic.
     
  3. Robert Heiny

    Robert Heiny Research Scientist of Learning and Education Flight Instructor

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    It has everything to do with teachers and their individual academic achievements. They get paid to show students what others know about ways the sun and earth relate. They can't teach what they do not know and I wonder if they will teach what they do not believe.

    Beyond that, each person chooses how to survive for him or her self irrespective of circumstances. That's stupid on one scale and not necessariy on other scales.

    Some people build shelters, others don't. Builders, growers, et al. pay attention to the sun because they work in the sun whether they know if it rotates around the earth or the other way around. Those who work in buildings don't have to know about the sun except if someone gives them a test about the sun and earth.

    Hopefully, each person survives and allows others to do so also, but knowing relationships between the sun and earth is ultimately their individual, personal responsibility, period. Yes? I don't call that smart or something else.
     
  4. LPH

    LPH Flight Director Flight Instructor

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    It has nothing to do with teachers. Are there not books, libraries, internet? Can people not have conversations and learn from them? Are you really suggesting learning only occurs in a building with four walls and a teacher?

    The individual is responsible for their own learning. No one can teach - but everyone can learn. Some even learn helplessness and think they cannot learn without a teacher or taking a class.
     
  5. Robert Heiny

    Robert Heiny Research Scientist of Learning and Education Flight Instructor

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    Yes, I've met teachers who do not accept responsibility for their students not learning from lessons taught. I wonder why they accept contracts to teach and then do not do so?

    And, yes, people can talk with each other and learn something, but I would not rely on what others say unless I have a way to check on their authority based on what the most informed people know and do. The latter is what people should learn in school, not usually in other settings.

    Yes, I've met people who claim they don't want to learn. Sad, very sad.
     
  6. LPH

    LPH Flight Director Flight Instructor

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    This is all about personal responsibility for the learner because they polled adults - not teens or preteens. Your points might be valid if the polling involved teens or young adults, however, adults have had plenty of time to learn.

    If I recall correctly, Dan Lortie suggested generalizations about [3.2 million] teachers is skewed to the negative because we tend to remember poor experiences rather than the good ones. Lately the negatives are reinforced by newstainment agencies with ulterior motives.
     
  7. Robert Heiny

    Robert Heiny Research Scientist of Learning and Education Flight Instructor

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    Ah, yes, a conspiracy of media reigns against teachers! Are you sure that exists, or is this a cover story for ineffective teachers who make noble efforts that yield inadequate results that a growing number of people reject as necessary?
     
  8. LPH

    LPH Flight Director Flight Instructor

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    Let's review my statement:

    Newstainment are not all media and not all media are newstainment.

    Without numbers or research, I can only presuppose that ineffective teachers have existed since the beginning of teaching was made a career. I work from the argument that the number of ineffective teachers has not grown in percentage. Instead, certain political groups find it in their own best interest to attack [all] teachers by pointing out the failures of a few teachers.
     

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