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Registry Cleaners Affecting the Ability to Boot

Discussion in 'Windows XP' started by Daave, Jan 21, 2010.

  1. Daave

    Daave Flightless Bird

    I am in the same camp as most regulars here who wouldn't advise someone
    to use a registry cleaner in order to boost a PC's overall
    performance/speed. No one has ever been able to provide solid evidence
    to back up such a claim.

    That being said, whenever I caution people not to use these programs, I
    normally add that sometimes these cleaners have been known to cause a
    situation where the PC becomes unbootable. I seem to remember reading a
    number of posts in these XP newsgroups from people who have reported
    this behavior.

    But now I wonder. (Memories often are not reliable!) I do value
    evidence. But I Googled for instances where this sort of behavior
    happens and I couldn't find anything convincing! The closest I could
    find was this post:

    http://forums.comodo.com/comodo-sys...stem-being-unable-to-boot-t38353.0.html;wap2=

    And newsgroup archives? Just a few hits, _total_:

    http://groups.google.com/groups/sea...ner"&btnG=Search&sitesearch=groups.google.com

    (arguably I could have opened up the search, but 5 results?!)

    Then again, Google is nowhere near as good as it once was when it comes
    to searching archived Usenet posts. But was I imagining posts mentioning
    these occurences?

    I still won't be recommending these programs since, again, there is no
    evidence they are beneficial. I would imagine if someone is overzealous,
    real damage could occur (just like with regedit). But if someone could
    point me to some posts where someone actually did have the behavior
    described (i.e., not able to boot after running a registry "cleaner" or
    "optimizer"), I would appreciate it. Otherwise, I will have to stop
    making that claim. (However, until someone provides *real* evidence that
    these cleaners boost performance, I will continue to make the claim that
    the evidence for *that* does not exist.) Evidence is evidence, and I
    feel that my advice is more valuable if it is not tainted by unfounded
    opinion.
     
  2. ANONYMOUS

    ANONYMOUS Flightless Bird

    Daave wrote:

    >But if someone could
    >point me to some posts where someone actually did have the behavior
    >described (i.e., not able to boot after running a registry "cleaner" or
    >"optimizer"), I would appreciate it.
    >


    The only people who did have the behavior you describe are MVPs (Most
    Valuable Pigs) and in particular Pig-Bear and Bruce Hagan-Pig. Apart
    from that I too have not come across any experienced user having had any
    problems. the MVPs only justification fr reporting this matter is
    because they have read an article written way back in the 90s when these
    programs were at an infancy and M$ was still producing good products!

    I too don't use registry cleaners but my machines are wiped clean by
    formatting once every 15 to 18 months or when a new service is issued if
    earlier. CCleaner is the only one I use because I don't regard it as
    registry cleaner and I use it for it uninstaller utility.

    hth
     
  3. Peter Foldes

    Peter Foldes Flightless Bird

    Daave

    Here is a couple that were posted in the last few days alone.
    _______________________________________________________

    Hey guys!

    Im new to this forum but i hope it goes well (sorry for my poor English).

    I have a problem after running a registry cleaner program who removed
    registry files i needed to start up my pc properly...

    Now my windows starts and all but i cant use the mice or the keyboard and
    its very few programs witch starts. I've tried to run the pc in safe mode and
    normal but none of them work properly and i have tried to run the system
    recovery from the windows dvd.
    But the windows dvd can't find my vista 64 bit.

    This is my computer:
    Q6600 @ 2.40GHz 2x GeForce 8800GT Sli Harddisks: 763 GB Memory: 4094 MB OS:
    Windows Vista™ Home Premium 64 bit

    I hope you can understand my problem (if not just ask) and i would be realy
    happy if you could help me.

    Best regards,
    Memon / Niklas
    ______________________________________________________________________

    Help!

    I was working with the registry file and managed to disable my computer. I
    searched this site and all related posts I found point to KB 307545. Problem
    is I have an OEM operating system installed and the KB warns against
    restoring hive files in this case. Moreover, my copy of XP is on a DVD and I
    am not sure I can boot to this drive anyway.

    Prior to editing the registry I saved a copy to another folder. My question
    is is there any way to get to this backup version of the registry and restore
    it without using hive files? Would booting to DOS allow for this? I
    understand sysinternals has an NTFS add-on for DOS. Otherwise, could I
    somehow use the recovery console to restore the registry from the saved copy
    (assuming I can start the console from the XP DVD)?

    Thanks in advance,

    Harris
    __________________________________________________________________
    --
    Peter

    Please Reply to Newsgroup for the benefit of others
    Requests for assistance by email can not and will not be acknowledged.

    "Daave" <daave@example.com> wrote in message
    news:ujz$D3vmKHA.1652@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
    >I am in the same camp as most regulars here who wouldn't advise someone to use a
    >registry cleaner in order to boost a PC's overall performance/speed. No one has
    >ever been able to provide solid evidence to back up such a claim.
    >
    > That being said, whenever I caution people not to use these programs, I normally
    > add that sometimes these cleaners have been known to cause a situation where the
    > PC becomes unbootable. I seem to remember reading a number of posts in these XP
    > newsgroups from people who have reported this behavior.
    >
    > But now I wonder. (Memories often are not reliable!) I do value evidence. But I
    > Googled for instances where this sort of behavior happens and I couldn't find
    > anything convincing! The closest I could find was this post:
    >
    > http://forums.comodo.com/comodo-sys...stem-being-unable-to-boot-t38353.0.html;wap2=
    >
    > And newsgroup archives? Just a few hits, _total_:
    >
    > http://groups.google.com/groups/sea...ner"&btnG=Search&sitesearch=groups.google.com
    >
    > (arguably I could have opened up the search, but 5 results?!)
    >
    > Then again, Google is nowhere near as good as it once was when it comes to
    > searching archived Usenet posts. But was I imagining posts mentioning these
    > occurences?
    >
    > I still won't be recommending these programs since, again, there is no evidence
    > they are beneficial. I would imagine if someone is overzealous, real damage could
    > occur (just like with regedit). But if someone could point me to some posts where
    > someone actually did have the behavior described (i.e., not able to boot after
    > running a registry "cleaner" or "optimizer"), I would appreciate it. Otherwise, I
    > will have to stop making that claim. (However, until someone provides *real*
    > evidence that these cleaners boost performance, I will continue to make the claim
    > that the evidence for *that* does not exist.) Evidence is evidence, and I feel
    > that my advice is more valuable if it is not tainted by unfounded opinion.
    >
     
  4. SC Tom

    SC Tom Flightless Bird

    "Daave" <daave@example.com> wrote in message
    news:ujz$D3vmKHA.1652@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl
    > I am in the same camp as most regulars here who wouldn't advise
    > someone to use a registry cleaner in order to boost a PC's overall
    > performance/speed. No one has ever been able to provide solid evidence
    > to back up such a claim.
    >
    > That being said, whenever I caution people not to use these programs,
    > I normally add that sometimes these cleaners have been known to cause
    > a situation where the PC becomes unbootable. I seem to remember
    > reading a number of posts in these XP newsgroups from people who have
    > reported this behavior.
    >
    > But now I wonder. (Memories often are not reliable!) I do value
    > evidence. But I Googled for instances where this sort of behavior
    > happens and I couldn't find anything convincing! The closest I could
    > find was this post:
    >
    > http://forums.comodo.com/comodo-sys...stem-being-unable-to-boot-t38353.0.html;wap2=
    >
    > And newsgroup archives? Just a few hits, _total_:
    >
    > http://groups.google.com/groups/sea...ner"&btnG=Search&sitesearch=groups.google.com
    >
    > (arguably I could have opened up the search, but 5 results?!)
    >
    > Then again, Google is nowhere near as good as it once was when it
    > comes to searching archived Usenet posts. But was I imagining posts
    > mentioning these occurences?
    >
    > I still won't be recommending these programs since, again, there is no
    > evidence they are beneficial. I would imagine if someone is
    > overzealous, real damage could occur (just like with regedit). But if
    > someone could point me to some posts where someone actually did have
    > the behavior described (i.e., not able to boot after running a
    > registry "cleaner" or "optimizer"), I would appreciate it. Otherwise,
    > I will have to stop making that claim. (However, until someone
    > provides *real* evidence that these cleaners boost performance, I
    > will continue to make the claim that the evidence for *that* does not
    > exist.) Evidence is evidence, and I feel that my advice is more
    > valuable if it is not tainted by unfounded opinion.


    I have never been unable to boot after using CCleaner, but I have had
    problems with networked programs when I used it a couple of times on my work
    computer. There were a couple that had to be reinstalled locally in order to
    work again.
    I have only had one problem at home with it, and that was on my Win7
    notebook. It "broke" my installation of Logitech SetPoint for my Bluetooth
    mouse. Keep in mind that I didn't go through each key to see what was being
    removed, so I can't blame the program as much as blaming myself. All I had
    to do to fix it was restore the keys from the backup that CC creates. Didn't
    even need to reboot.
    Even though I've never had an unbootable machine, I can honestly say that
    I've never seen any verifiable speed or reliability performance either.
    Do they do any good? Not that I can see.
    Do they do any harm? Yes, in certain instances, and could probably do more
    if the user doesn't know or pay attention to what he's doing.
    --
    SC Tom
     
  5. SC Tom

    SC Tom Flightless Bird

    "Peter Foldes" <okf22@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:eN3zoPwmKHA.4936@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl
    > Daave
    >
    > Here is a couple that were posted in the last few days alone.
    > _______________________________________________________
    >
    > Hey guys!
    >
    > Im new to this forum but i hope it goes well (sorry for my poor
    > English).
    > I have a problem after running a registry cleaner program who removed
    > registry files i needed to start up my pc properly...
    >
    > Now my windows starts and all but i cant use the mice or the keyboard
    > and its very few programs witch starts. I've tried to run the pc in
    > safe mode and normal but none of them work properly and i have tried
    > to run the system recovery from the windows dvd.
    > But the windows dvd can't find my vista 64 bit.
    >
    > This is my computer:
    > Q6600 @ 2.40GHz 2x GeForce 8800GT Sli Harddisks: 763 GB Memory: 4094
    > MB OS: Windows Vista™ Home Premium 64 bit
    >
    > I hope you can understand my problem (if not just ask) and i would be
    > realy happy if you could help me.
    >
    > Best regards,
    > Memon / Niklas
    > ______________________________________________________________________
    >
    > Help!
    >
    > I was working with the registry file and managed to disable my
    > computer. I searched this site and all related posts I found point
    > to KB 307545. Problem is I have an OEM operating system installed
    > and the KB warns against restoring hive files in this case. Moreover, my
    > copy of XP is on a DVD and I am not sure I can boot to
    > this drive anyway.
    > Prior to editing the registry I saved a copy to another folder. My
    > question is is there any way to get to this backup version of the
    > registry and restore it without using hive files? Would booting to
    > DOS allow for this? I understand sysinternals has an NTFS add-on for
    > DOS. Otherwise, could I somehow use the recovery console to restore
    > the registry from the saved copy (assuming I can start the console
    > from the XP DVD)?
    > Thanks in advance,
    >
    > Harris
    > __________________________________________________________________
    > --
    > Peter
    >
    > Please Reply to Newsgroup for the benefit of others
    > Requests for assistance by email can not and will not be acknowledged.
    >


    In the first instance, the PC is still bootable, albeit crippled somewhat,
    which means it can probably be repaired without wiping the drive and
    starting over.
    In the second instance, it sounds more like *he's* the registry cleaner ("I
    was working with the registry file. . ."), not some program. My guess is he
    went through with regedit and started deleting keys on his own without
    realizing he was shooting himself in the foot.
    Not quite what Daave was asking :)
    --
    SC Tom
     
  6. The Real Truth MVP

    The Real Truth MVP Flightless Bird

    Registry cleaners are only as bad as the people who use them. If you don't
    know what you are doing then don't use them. I regularly use CCleaner and I
    recommend it. For those who say it does not speed up the computer I say you
    don't have enough experience to make that statement. I personally have
    noticed a speed increase in some systems. The registry hives are files just
    like temp files but are accessed constantly way more then your temp files.
    Cleaning it out needs to be done less then the temp files but there is very
    much a benefit from doing it especially when you need to do it to fix
    malware and spyware related issues.


    --
    The Real Truth http://pcbutts1-therealtruth.blogspot.com/
    *WARNING* Do NOT follow any advice given by the people listed below.
    They do NOT have the expertise or knowledge to fix your issue. Do not waste
    your time.
    David H Lipman, Malke, PA Bear, Beauregard T. Shagnasty, Leythos.




    "Daave" <daave@example.com> wrote in message
    news:ujz$D3vmKHA.1652@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
    >I am in the same camp as most regulars here who wouldn't advise someone to
    >use a registry cleaner in order to boost a PC's overall performance/speed.
    >No one has ever been able to provide solid evidence to back up such a
    >claim.
    >
    > That being said, whenever I caution people not to use these programs, I
    > normally add that sometimes these cleaners have been known to cause a
    > situation where the PC becomes unbootable. I seem to remember reading a
    > number of posts in these XP newsgroups from people who have reported this
    > behavior.
    >
    > But now I wonder. (Memories often are not reliable!) I do value evidence.
    > But I Googled for instances where this sort of behavior happens and I
    > couldn't find anything convincing! The closest I could find was this post:
    >
    > http://forums.comodo.com/comodo-sys...stem-being-unable-to-boot-t38353.0.html;wap2=
    >
    > And newsgroup archives? Just a few hits, _total_:
    >
    > http://groups.google.com/groups/sea...ner"&btnG=Search&sitesearch=groups.google.com
    >
    > (arguably I could have opened up the search, but 5 results?!)
    >
    > Then again, Google is nowhere near as good as it once was when it comes to
    > searching archived Usenet posts. But was I imagining posts mentioning
    > these occurences?
    >
    > I still won't be recommending these programs since, again, there is no
    > evidence they are beneficial. I would imagine if someone is overzealous,
    > real damage could occur (just like with regedit). But if someone could
    > point me to some posts where someone actually did have the behavior
    > described (i.e., not able to boot after running a registry "cleaner" or
    > "optimizer"), I would appreciate it. Otherwise, I will have to stop making
    > that claim. (However, until someone provides *real* evidence that these
    > cleaners boost performance, I will continue to make the claim that the
    > evidence for *that* does not exist.) Evidence is evidence, and I feel that
    > my advice is more valuable if it is not tainted by unfounded opinion.
    >
     
  7. Bill in Co.

    Bill in Co. Flightless Bird

    Daave wrote:
    > I am in the same camp as most regulars here who wouldn't advise someone
    > to use a registry cleaner in order to boost a PC's overall
    > performance/speed. No one has ever been able to provide solid evidence
    > to back up such a claim.
    >


    Say WHAT???? You mean you didn't see Twaynee's "solid evidence"?
    ROFLMAO!! I needed a laugh today, so thanks for the opportunity. :)
     
  8. thanatoid

    thanatoid Flightless Bird

    "Daave" <daave@example.com> wrote in
    news:ujz$D3vmKHA.1652@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl:

    > I am in the same camp as most regulars here who wouldn't
    > advise someone to use a registry cleaner in order to boost
    > a PC's overall performance/speed. No one has ever been able
    > to provide solid evidence to back up such a claim.


    <SNIP>

    ******Thank you SO MUCH for starting this discussion
    again.******

    Since a lot of you trust magazines, here's a link to a PC World
    magazine examining 4 "utility sutes" all of which INCLUDE
    REGISTRY CLEANERS.

    http://www.pcworld.com/article/113743/the_troublefree_pc.html

    For those too lazy to look for the section, here is what the
    article says abot RC's:

    "Registry cleaners:

    Garbage lurking in the Windows Registry is the worst kind of
    junk on your hard drive. A program that you've uninstalled may
    leave behind an unnecessary Registry key that can end up causing
    havoc. If your computer isn't behaving the way it's supposed to-
    -for example, a program keeps crashing or the CD-R drive
    suddenly doesn't write--there's a good chance the problem is in
    the Registry.

    All four suites provide Registry scanners that find, report, and
    fix potential problems. Just as important, all four of them are
    able to undo their work, since you can't be absolutely sure that
    a Registry change is for the better until you have tried it.

    SystemSuite does the best job of guiding you through the
    cleaning process, color-coding the problems it finds. You're not
    likely to have difficulty instructing the program to correct the
    green problems, while the yellow ones may require some thought.
    However, you will have to consider each red problem carefully
    before acting on it. SystemSuite explains why each item is on
    the list. Norton SystemWorks offers even better explanations,
    including the potential consequences of leaving the keys alone.
    Neither program, though, explains what might happen if you
    remove them. The WinDoctor component of SystemWorks adds a nice
    touch: When you decide to restore a Registry key, WinDoctor
    tells you why it was deleted in the first place."

    I actually have the magazine, and there is 2x2" thingy on the
    page which quotes from the article:

    "An unnecessary Registry key... can end up causing *havoc*."

    Now, I would NEVER use a "utility suite". Suites are for
    amateurs. I get a specific app for the specific job. So I would
    never use any of the 4 products mentioned, however I hope some
    of what is said about the RC's will get through your thick
    skulls.

    And may I disrespectfully point out to those who keep on beating
    the dead horse of "improved performance" that neither I nor most
    of the other pro-RC posters (IIRC) have ever claimed ANY
    performance increase - in fact I have repeatedly stated there is
    ZERO performance increase.

    I guess all of you have your heads so concerned with speed that
    "performance increase" is the only criterion by which you
    evaluate things. GFY (either meaning), I hope that 3.6 GHz
    processor makes you type faster, and that the 2GB video card
    with 300 fps lets you get a bigger hard-on when you kill the bad
    guys and the shadows of dripping blood in the night fog are more
    vivid.

    OK?

    Now can we PLEASE move on?


    --
    The arrows are faster than rodents!
    - t.
     
  9. HeyBub

    HeyBub Flightless Bird

    ANONYMOUS wrote:
    > Daave wrote:
    >
    >> But if someone could
    >> point me to some posts where someone actually did have the behavior
    >> described (i.e., not able to boot after running a registry "cleaner"
    >> or "optimizer"), I would appreciate it.
    >>

    >
    > The only people who did have the behavior you describe are MVPs (Most
    > Valuable Pigs) and in particular Pig-Bear and Bruce Hagan-Pig. Apart
    > from that I too have not come across any experienced user having had
    > any problems. the MVPs only justification fr reporting this matter is
    > because they have read an article written way back in the 90s when
    > these programs were at an infancy and M$ was still producing good
    > products!
    > I too don't use registry cleaners but my machines are wiped clean by
    > formatting once every 15 to 18 months or when a new service is issued
    > if earlier. CCleaner is the only one I use because I don't regard it
    > as registry cleaner and I use it for it uninstaller utility.
    >


    Are you as certain about that as you were about the FORMAT command erasing
    the drive?
     
  10. ANONYMOUS

    ANONYMOUS Flightless Bird

    YES

    What did you disagree with me about FORMAT command? Please use the same
    message so that it can be clarified for you. Have you recently fixed your
    system?


    "HeyBub" <heybub@gmail.com> wrote in message
    news:ulYYi5wmKHA.256@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
    > ANONYMOUS wrote:
    >> Daave wrote:
    >>
    >>> But if someone could
    >>> point me to some posts where someone actually did have the behavior
    >>> described (i.e., not able to boot after running a registry "cleaner"
    >>> or "optimizer"), I would appreciate it.
    >>>

    >>
    >> The only people who did have the behavior you describe are MVPs (Most
    >> Valuable Pigs) and in particular Pig-Bear and Bruce Hagan-Pig. Apart
    >> from that I too have not come across any experienced user having had
    >> any problems. the MVPs only justification fr reporting this matter is
    >> because they have read an article written way back in the 90s when
    >> these programs were at an infancy and M$ was still producing good
    >> products!
    >> I too don't use registry cleaners but my machines are wiped clean by
    >> formatting once every 15 to 18 months or when a new service is issued
    >> if earlier. CCleaner is the only one I use because I don't regard it
    >> as registry cleaner and I use it for it uninstaller utility.
    >>

    >
    > Are you as certain about that as you were about the FORMAT command erasing
    > the drive?
    >
     
  11. Bill in Co.

    Bill in Co. Flightless Bird

    "thanatoid" <waiting@the.exit.invalid> wrote in message
    news:Xns9D07D50A03BEthanexit@188.40.43.245...
    > "Daave" <daave@example.com> wrote in
    > news:ujz$D3vmKHA.1652@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl:
    >
    >> I am in the same camp as most regulars here who wouldn't
    >> advise someone to use a registry cleaner in order to boost
    >> a PC's overall performance/speed. No one has ever been able
    >> to provide solid evidence to back up such a claim.

    >
    > <SNIP>
    >
    > ******Thank you SO MUCH for starting this discussion
    > again.******
    >
    > Since a lot of you trust magazines, here's a link to a PC World
    > magazine examining 4 "utility sutes" all of which INCLUDE
    > REGISTRY CLEANERS.
    >
    > http://www.pcworld.com/article/113743/the_troublefree_pc.html
    >
    > For those too lazy to look for the section, here is what the
    > article says abot RC's:
    >
    > "Registry cleaners:
    >
    > Garbage lurking in the Windows Registry is the worst kind of
    > junk on your hard drive. A program that you've uninstalled may
    > leave behind an unnecessary Registry key that can end up causing
    > havoc.


    Real **havoc** for that case?
    I've yet to see or read about that (and I mean in factual cites; not just
    opinions). (Either that, or my memory is fading :)

    > If your computer isn't behaving the way it's supposed to-
    > -for example, a program keeps crashing or the CD-R drive
    > suddenly doesn't write--there's a good chance the problem is in
    > the Registry.


    And an automated registry cleaner will often NOT find that particular
    problem.

    > All four suites provide Registry scanners that find, report, and
    > fix potential problems. Just as important, all four of them are
    > able to undo their work, since you can't be absolutely sure that
    > a Registry change is for the better until you have tried it.


    OR detrimentally, in so many cases.
    Just read more of the posts in this newsgroup over a bit of TIME, and
    witness it. (well, ok, some just close their eyes and ears, and never
    see...)

    <snip magazine sales pitch> :)

    > I actually have the magazine, and there is 2x2" thingy on the
    > page which quotes from the article:
    >
    > "An unnecessary Registry key... can end up causing *havoc*."


    Real **havoc** for that specific case?
    I've yet to see or read about that (and I mean in factual cites; not just
    opinions).

    > And may I disrespectfully point out to those who keep on beating
    > the dead horse of "improved performance" that neither I nor most
    > of the other pro-RC posters (IIRC) have ever claimed ANY
    > performance increase - in fact I have repeatedly stated there is
    > ZERO performance increase.


    Well no, you don't remember correctly.
    But then again, you haven't been in this particular newsgroup very long, so
    that may be understandable. :)
     
  12. John John - MVP

    John John - MVP Flightless Bird

    Daave wrote:
    > I am in the same camp as most regulars here who wouldn't advise someone
    > to use a registry cleaner in order to boost a PC's overall
    > performance/speed. No one has ever been able to provide solid evidence
    > to back up such a claim.
    >
    > That being said, whenever I caution people not to use these programs, I
    > normally add that sometimes these cleaners have been known to cause a
    > situation where the PC becomes unbootable. I seem to remember reading a
    > number of posts in these XP newsgroups from people who have reported
    > this behavior.


    http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/forums/topic110399.html
     
  13. PA Bear [MS MVP]

    PA Bear [MS MVP] Flightless Bird

    John John - MVP wrote:
    >> I am in the same camp as most regulars here who wouldn't advise someone
    >> to use a registry cleaner in order to boost a PC's overall
    >> performance/speed. No one has ever been able to provide solid evidence
    >> to back up such a claim.
    >>
    >> That being said, whenever I caution people not to use these programs, I
    >> normally add that sometimes these cleaners have been known to cause a
    >> situation where the PC becomes unbootable. I seem to remember reading a
    >> number of posts in these XP newsgroups from people who have reported
    >> this behavior.

    >
    > http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/forums/topic110399.html


    http://aumha.net/viewtopic.php?t=28099
     
  14. Milt

    Milt Flightless Bird

    Daave,

    Just to add another comment on CCleaner. I too, was curious about it. So, I
    installed CCleaner on an older laptop running Windows XP Home SP3 and most of
    the applications that I use on my other machines. The computer connects to
    the internet and my home network of 4 other machines through my wireless
    router or by ethernet cable. So far it's been on this machine for about 5 1/2
    months.

    I run the CCleaner "Windows Cleaner" daily to dump temp's. It's faster than
    doing it manually. And it does a good job.

    I have also run the CCleaner "Registry Cleaner" 33 times so far in the 5 1/2
    months. I inspected the reports before deleting registry entries the first
    five or six times I ran it. But I never found any suggested deletions I
    disagreed with, so now I just run it and automatically save a copy of the
    deletions.

    As of this time, the computer is running at least as well as it did before
    using CCleaner. I can't say it's running better, but it's not having any
    problems either. CCleaner is handy for deleting temp's. And it's handy for
    searching for registry problems. I've installed it on my other 4 computers.
    And I use it to keep my "System Restore" backups down to about 10 entries.

    Milt

    "Daave" wrote:

    > I am in the same camp as most regulars here who wouldn't advise someone
    > to use a registry cleaner in order to boost a PC's overall
    > performance/speed. No one has ever been able to provide solid evidence
    > to back up such a claim.
    >
    > That being said, whenever I caution people not to use these programs, I
    > normally add that sometimes these cleaners have been known to cause a
    > situation where the PC becomes unbootable. I seem to remember reading a
    > number of posts in these XP newsgroups from people who have reported
    > this behavior.
    >
    > But now I wonder. (Memories often are not reliable!) I do value
    > evidence. But I Googled for instances where this sort of behavior
    > happens and I couldn't find anything convincing! The closest I could
    > find was this post:
    >
    > http://forums.comodo.com/comodo-sys...stem-being-unable-to-boot-t38353.0.html;wap2=
    >
    > And newsgroup archives? Just a few hits, _total_:
    >
    > http://groups.google.com/groups/sea...ner"&btnG=Search&sitesearch=groups.google.com
    >
    > (arguably I could have opened up the search, but 5 results?!)
    >
    > Then again, Google is nowhere near as good as it once was when it comes
    > to searching archived Usenet posts. But was I imagining posts mentioning
    > these occurences?
    >
    > I still won't be recommending these programs since, again, there is no
    > evidence they are beneficial. I would imagine if someone is overzealous,
    > real damage could occur (just like with regedit). But if someone could
    > point me to some posts where someone actually did have the behavior
    > described (i.e., not able to boot after running a registry "cleaner" or
    > "optimizer"), I would appreciate it. Otherwise, I will have to stop
    > making that claim. (However, until someone provides *real* evidence that
    > these cleaners boost performance, I will continue to make the claim that
    > the evidence for *that* does not exist.) Evidence is evidence, and I
    > feel that my advice is more valuable if it is not tainted by unfounded
    > opinion.
    >
    >
    > .
    >
     
  15. Ken Blake, MVP

    Ken Blake, MVP Flightless Bird

    On Fri, 22 Jan 2010 05:45:01 -0800, Milt
    <Milt@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:


    > Just to add another comment on CCleaner. I too, was curious about it. So, I
    > installed CCleaner on an older laptop running Windows XP Home SP3 and most of
    > the applications that I use on my other machines. The computer connects to
    > the internet and my home network of 4 other machines through my wireless
    > router or by ethernet cable. So far it's been on this machine for about 5 1/2
    > months.
    >
    > I run the CCleaner "Windows Cleaner" daily to dump temp's. It's faster than
    > doing it manually. And it does a good job.
    >
    > I have also run the CCleaner "Registry Cleaner" 33 times so far in the 5 1/2
    > months. I inspected the reports before deleting registry entries the first
    > five or six times I ran it. But I never found any suggested deletions I
    > disagreed with, so now I just run it and automatically save a copy of the
    > deletions.
    >
    > As of this time, the computer is running at least as well as it did before
    > using CCleaner. I can't say it's running better, but it's not having any
    > problems either. CCleaner is handy for deleting temp's. And it's handy for
    > searching for registry problems. I've installed it on my other 4 computers.
    > And I use it to keep my "System Restore" backups down to about 10 entries.




    A few points about CCleaner and your experiences with it:

    1. CCleaner is generally a good program to use as long as you don't
    use its registry cleaning function.

    2. Even its registry cleaning function is safer than that of most
    other registry cleaners.

    3. Despite its being safer than others, it is *not* risk-free.
    Moreover since registry cleaning is unnecessary and does nothing
    valuable for you, using it is a very bad bargain.

    4. If you look at what the registry cleaner proposes to do and you are
    a knowledgeable user, you can enormously decrease the risk of your
    using it, and I'm glad to see that you apparently fall into that
    category. However none of us is perfect at doing that, and some risk
    still remains.

    5. Nobody claims that the CCleaner registry cleaner (and almost all
    other registry cleaners) will cause a problem every time you use it.
    It has the *risk* of causing a problem. Most of the time most people
    can get away with using it. Running the risk is unnecessary and
    anybody who uses one and doesn't have a problem should consider
    himself lucky.

    --
    Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP (Windows Desktop Experience) since 2003
    Please Reply to the Newsgroup
     
  16. Daave

    Daave Flightless Bird

    John John - MVP wrote:
    > Daave wrote:
    >> I am in the same camp as most regulars here who wouldn't advise
    >> someone to use a registry cleaner in order to boost a PC's overall
    >> performance/speed. No one has ever been able to provide solid
    >> evidence to back up such a claim.
    >>
    >> That being said, whenever I caution people not to use these
    >> programs, I normally add that sometimes these cleaners have been
    >> known to cause a situation where the PC becomes unbootable. I seem
    >> to remember reading a number of posts in these XP newsgroups from
    >> people who have reported this behavior.

    >
    > http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/forums/topic110399.html


    That's interesting.

    I don't have the newest version of Ccleaner. Then again, that Bleeping
    Computer post was from September, 2007. I wonder if that user was not
    using the registry sacnning/cleaning function of Cleaner. It sounds like
    maybe he instead clicked on *Tools | Startup*, where you see a list of
    startup programs similar to what you might see in msconfig. Then again,
    it might have been the registry component after all since that is one
    where boxes appear that can be checked or unchecked. At any rate,
    presumably the current version of Cleaner does not present that
    particular entry as an option to remove (since my version didn't).

    Interestingly, the entry for C:/Windows\system32\userinit.exe doesn't
    even show up in msconfig! I am only able to access this by regedit or
    Autoruns. Speaking of Autoruns, this post was made by someone who had
    cluelessly unchecked that very entry:

    http://www.techsupportforum.com/mic...d-userinit-exe-i-mistakenly-deleted-file.html

    I ran Cleaner's registry component, just to *scan* for "issues."
    Userinit.exe didn't show up as an option. I imagine that the version
    from 2007 presented this option in error and that current users of
    Ccleaner wouldn't have this particular problem.

    But there are many other registry "cleaning" programs out there. It
    wouldn't surprise me if one or more of them allows an unsphisticated
    user to alter entries that really need to be left alone.

    Actually, Autoruns is probably a more dangerous program than most
    above-board registry cleaners (like Ccleaner). When you run it and the
    Everything tab appears up front, the second entry hapens to be
    C:/Windows\system32\userinit.exe ! What I would like to know is why this
    line does not appear grayed out. That is, I can see the value in
    *listing* it, but would there *ever* be a situation where a
    sophisiticated user would need to uncheck this entry?!
     
  17. Daave

    Daave Flightless Bird

    Ken Blake, MVP wrote:
    > On Fri, 22 Jan 2010 05:45:01 -0800, Milt
    > <Milt@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:
    >
    >
    >> Just to add another comment on CCleaner. I too, was curious about
    >> it. So, I installed CCleaner on an older laptop running Windows XP
    >> Home SP3 and most of the applications that I use on my other
    >> machines. The computer connects to the internet and my home network
    >> of 4 other machines through my wireless router or by ethernet cable.
    >> So far it's been on this machine for about 5 1/2 months.
    >>
    >> I run the CCleaner "Windows Cleaner" daily to dump temp's. It's
    >> faster than doing it manually. And it does a good job.
    >>
    >> I have also run the CCleaner "Registry Cleaner" 33 times so far in
    >> the 5 1/2 months. I inspected the reports before deleting registry
    >> entries the first five or six times I ran it. But I never found any
    >> suggested deletions I disagreed with, so now I just run it and
    >> automatically save a copy of the deletions.
    >>
    >> As of this time, the computer is running at least as well as it did
    >> before using CCleaner. I can't say it's running better, but it's not
    >> having any problems either. CCleaner is handy for deleting temp's.
    >> And it's handy for searching for registry problems. I've installed
    >> it on my other 4 computers. And I use it to keep my "System
    >> Restore" backups down to about 10 entries.

    >
    >
    >
    > A few points about CCleaner and your experiences with it:
    >
    > 1. CCleaner is generally a good program to use as long as you don't
    > use its registry cleaning function.
    >
    > 2. Even its registry cleaning function is safer than that of most
    > other registry cleaners.
    >
    > 3. Despite its being safer than others, it is *not* risk-free.
    > Moreover since registry cleaning is unnecessary and does nothing
    > valuable for you, using it is a very bad bargain.
    >
    > 4. If you look at what the registry cleaner proposes to do and you are
    > a knowledgeable user, you can enormously decrease the risk of your
    > using it, and I'm glad to see that you apparently fall into that
    > category. However none of us is perfect at doing that, and some risk
    > still remains.
    >
    > 5. Nobody claims that the CCleaner registry cleaner (and almost all
    > other registry cleaners) will cause a problem every time you use it.
    > It has the *risk* of causing a problem. Most of the time most people
    > can get away with using it. Running the risk is unnecessary and
    > anybody who uses one and doesn't have a problem should consider
    > himself lucky.


    I would like to add the following:

    6. Any benefit that one sees from having used Ccleaner is most likely
    due to the deletion of temp files, not the removal of registry entries.
     
  18. Daave

    Daave Flightless Bird

    PA Bear [MS MVP] wrote:
    > John John - MVP wrote:
    >>> I am in the same camp as most regulars here who wouldn't advise
    >>> someone to use a registry cleaner in order to boost a PC's overall
    >>> performance/speed. No one has ever been able to provide solid
    >>> evidence to back up such a claim.
    >>>
    >>> That being said, whenever I caution people not to use these
    >>> programs, I normally add that sometimes these cleaners have been
    >>> known to cause a situation where the PC becomes unbootable. I seem
    >>> to remember reading a number of posts in these XP newsgroups from
    >>> people who have reported this behavior.

    >>
    >> http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/forums/topic110399.html

    >
    > http://aumha.net/viewtopic.php?t=28099


    That is a useful page. However, it does not contain the evidence I am
    looking for. I did see this claim by "kb":

    "The onecare cleaner offers no chance to backup what is removed and
    whatever it removes is gone, forever. Should it mistakenly remove a key
    or value needed by your operating system or software it's gone along
    with your program or operating system. I've seen onecare's registry
    cleaner completely hose systems."

    But that's anecdotal. (And it didn't mention anything about a system
    becoming unbootable.) It's not that different from Twayne stating that
    he has seen instances where registry cleaners increased performance on
    clients' PCs. I am looking for evidence, specifically that one of these
    programs has rendered a system unbootable. So far, John John has come
    closest. I'm not sure if the post he linked to was the result of
    Cleaner's registry cleaning component or its equivalent of msconfig, but
    if it is the former, that is a perfect example.

    I did notice this thread being referenced in the thread you linked to:

    http://safetycenter.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!8A533CD69529D377!706.entry

    I haven't looked at it yet, but I see that there were 44 complaints that
    this Microsoft scan interfered with Office and Norton!

    For the record, I think that the registry "cleaners" offer little to no
    benefit to PC users along with some amount of risk. I just wanted to
    know if my memory was correct when it comes to situations I remember
    reading about (or *think* I remember!) where a system *has* become
    unbootable.

    Thanks for the link.
     
  19. db

    db Flightless Bird

    daave,

    although I'm an advocate for
    ccleaner and the one care by
    microsoft;

    sometimes there are other
    issues that attribute to poor
    performance of windows.

    and most of the time people
    presume that a registry cleaner
    will solve the problem

    but in fact it only makes things
    work.

    for example if the file system
    is not in sync with the mft,

    and if the mft is not reconciled/
    synchronized with the file system
    then files will seemingly be
    not found, when in fact they are
    on the disk (just not registered
    in the mft)

    the result will be that the entire
    system will behave poorly,
    especially with the system files.



    therefore a check disk is required
    to reconcile the file system.

    but unfortunately, there are times
    that if any files have been created
    after the mft becomes corrupted,

    then they will be lost once the mft
    is back in shape.

    ----------------

    on the other hand,
    if a registry cleaner is executed
    instead of a check disk,

    then the registry hive, which are
    also files of the file system, will
    become worst / corrupted.

    its just my take on the matter
    but everyone else has their own.

    ----------------

    one of my main concerns with
    the one care cleaner is that it
    does not perform a check disk
    before it executes the helpful
    utilities, ie, virus scan, defrag,
    and registry check.

    an infrequent check disk is very
    helpful to maintain the integrity
    of the file system and the master
    file table (mft)

    -----------------

    it is my hope you get your pc
    back in shape.

    though we may spar on certain
    issues I never wish the worst for
    people who are trying to help.

    --
    db·´¯`·...¸><)))º>
    DatabaseBen, Retired Professional
    - Systems Analyst
    - Database Developer
    - Accountancy
    - Veteran of the Armed Forces
    - @Hotmail.com
    - nntp Postologist
    ~ "share the nirvana" - dbZen

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    >
    >


    "Daave" <daave@example.com> wrote in message
    news:ujz$D3vmKHA.1652@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
    > I am in the same camp as most regulars here who wouldn't advise someone to
    > use a registry cleaner in order to boost a PC's overall performance/speed.
    > No one has ever been able to provide solid evidence to back up such a
    > claim.
    >
    > That being said, whenever I caution people not to use these programs, I
    > normally add that sometimes these cleaners have been known to cause a
    > situation where the PC becomes unbootable. I seem to remember reading a
    > number of posts in these XP newsgroups from people who have reported this
    > behavior.
    >
    > But now I wonder. (Memories often are not reliable!) I do value evidence.
    > But I Googled for instances where this sort of behavior happens and I
    > couldn't find anything convincing! The closest I could find was this post:
    >
    > http://forums.comodo.com/comodo-sys...stem-being-unable-to-boot-t38353.0.html;wap2=
    >
    > And newsgroup archives? Just a few hits, _total_:
    >
    > http://groups.google.com/groups/sea...ner"&btnG=Search&sitesearch=groups.google.com
    >
    > (arguably I could have opened up the search, but 5 results?!)
    >
    > Then again, Google is nowhere near as good as it once was when it comes to
    > searching archived Usenet posts. But was I imagining posts mentioning
    > these occurences?
    >
    > I still won't be recommending these programs since, again, there is no
    > evidence they are beneficial. I would imagine if someone is overzealous,
    > real damage could occur (just like with regedit). But if someone could
    > point me to some posts where someone actually did have the behavior
    > described (i.e., not able to boot after running a registry "cleaner" or
    > "optimizer"), I would appreciate it. Otherwise, I will have to stop making
    > that claim. (However, until someone provides *real* evidence that these
    > cleaners boost performance, I will continue to make the claim that the
    > evidence for *that* does not exist.) Evidence is evidence, and I feel that
    > my advice is more valuable if it is not tainted by unfounded opinion.
    >
     
  20. thanatoid

    thanatoid Flightless Bird

    "db" <databaseben@hotmail.com> wrote in
    news:-O#Qalt3mKHA.4628@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl:

    > daave,


    <SNIP>

    > and most of the time people
    > presume that a registry cleaner
    > will solve the problem
    >
    > but in fact it only makes things
    > work.


    A "Gatesian" slip?

    Yes, it DOES make things work better by cleaning out the crap. I
    guess my post including a PCWorld review of 4 reg cleaner did
    not appeal to you. Pity.

    Well, this horse is stinking so bad I've put on a gas mask, so
    carry on to your hearts' content...

    <SNIP>

    --
    The arrows are faster than rodents!
    - t.
     

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