• Welcome to Tux Reports: Where Penguins Fly. We hope you find the topics varied, interesting, and worthy of your time. Please become a member and join in the discussions.

Re: Surprised!

G

glee

Flightless Bird
Re: Microsoft inserts Firefox add-on with new updates (was: Surprised!)

Microsoft Basher "98 Guy" <98@Guy.com> excerpted only the parts he
wanted to respond to, and replied in message
news:4C1246C6.2DB57565@Guy.com...
> glee wrote:
>
>> > Speaking of a criminal organization, how many of you are aware
>> > that Microsoft's last auto-update package delivered a firefox
>> > add-on that tampers with your browser's search functionality

>>
>> The Firefox extension and IE add-on from the "Search Enhancement"
>> update were only installed on systems that had the Live, MSN, or
>> Bing browser toolbar installed, since it is part of an update that
>> involves those toolbars.

>
> http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/ne...ips-ie-firefox-add-on-into-toolbar-update.ars
>
> ---------
> On one of our Windows systems, we had the Windows Live Toolbar
> installed
> for Internet Explorer but not for Firefox. Nevertheless, installing
> this update added the add-on/extension to both browsers without
> telling
> us that it would do so. On our second system, we had the Bing Bar
> installed for Internet Explorer, but it was disabled. Firefox was not
> installed. This system already had the update in question, so we
> decided to install Firefox. Not only was the Bing Bar extension
> present
> upon Firefox's first launch, but so was the Search Helper Extension.
>
> Additional testing determined that the update is only being offered to
> those with one of the Microsoft toolbars installed, regardless of
> whether they are enabled or disabled. It's unknown how many users
> fall
> into that scenario, but the toolbars often come bundled with new PCs
> and
> popular Microsoft downloads.
>
> The worst part of this issue is that Microsoft does not seem to be
> aware
> of it: a Microsoft spokesperson simply pointed us to the
> aforementioned
> Microsoft Support page that inaccurately describes the update. We
> asked
> the company for an explanation of why the extension was installed and
> what it does, but have yet to receive a reply.
> ---------
>
>> It was not installed as a "critical" update, it was listed as
>> an "important" update.

>
> My mistake. It was listed as important - not optional. Which means
> it
> will likely be downloaded automatically on most systems - without
> their
> owners knowledge or approval.
>
>> Exactly how does it "tamper" with your search functionality?

>
> This is the second time that Microsoft has tried to tinker with
> Firefox
> on people's PC's. Some people don't like it when new tool bars appear
> in their browser.
>
>> It updates browser integration for the toolbar, and is only
>> installed if the toolbar is already installed.

>
> Not true - read above. This firefox add-on is being installed even
> when
> those systems did not previously have a Bing / MS search add-on
> installed.
>
>> As usual, you report half-truths, and are only interested in
>> attacking Microsoft...

>
> Now that you know the full story, are you still sure that this add-on
> behavior is desirable for end-users, or is it desirable for Microsoft?
> Is it really an important add-on?
>
> Or will you be a Micro$haft appologist and psycophant and believe
> otherwise?


Oh I see....if I don't agree with you, I'm an apologist for Microsoft,
or Microshaft as you so childishly put it? It's obvious you're the one
with an agenda here.

So far, none of us knows the "full story", and I'd rather reserve
judgment until details of the update are made available, than just start
making unfounded conjecture. So far MS has not given details, which
certainly makes them look bad....something they don't need help doing.

You again made an inaccurate statement, when you wrote:
"Not true - read above. This Firefox add-on is being installed even
when those systems did not previously have a Bing /MS search add-on
installed."

I did "read above" and the article you cited clearly states:
"Additional testing determined that the update is only being offered to
those with one of the Microsoft toolbars installed, regardless of
whether they are enabled or disabled."

The update installs on the "system" into a folder tree that contains the
files for every browser that can install the toolbars and the "search
enhancement". If the toolbar is installed in IE but not in Firefox,
when the update is installed (with the files for both browsers), the
add-on for Firefox is installed from those files. I don't think that's
unreasonable, as otherwise the updater has to snoop into the Firefox
profile folders to determine whether the toolbar is installed in that
particular browser for EACH user profile (Firefox has separate profiles
for each user on the system)....and THEN you would be screaming bloody
murder that the update process was spying into the Firefox profile
folders! So the PROCESS used to install is actually not bad, given the
details of what's involved.

That said, is the update itself needed in the first place? Is it
actually "important" as it is listed? We don't know, because MS hasn't
given any info about it. Why not? Good question. Possibly because the
update is only delivered and installed by the Microsoft Update team, but
was written by the Windows Live Team...which covers all the <yeech>
Windows Live applications. My Guess is it is far from important, and
doesn't do a darn thing of use for the user.

Graying out the Uninstall button for the add-on? Really bad practice!
Not indicating that it will install the add-on in Firefox, and that it
will even if the toolbar is only installed in IE? REALLY bad practice!

From what I've heard, the MS Update Services team is "looking into" what
this update does....they'll probably have to pull teeth from the Live
team to get answers. Left hand not knowing what Right hand is doing is
typical of large corporations, and MS is especially good at it.

Now, I'm still waiting to hear why you've had nothing to say for years
about the Sun Java Firefox add-on that's installed without warning by
Sun Java updates. It allows Java apps to run in the browser...not in a
sandbox...a potentially large security risk. Yet we hear not a peep
from anyone about that....why is that, I wonder? Because you're not
really interested in bringing real security issues to light, your only
interested in bashing Microsoft.
--
Glen Ventura, MS MVP Oct. 2002 - Sept. 2009
A+
http://dts-l.net/
 
D

Dan

Flightless Bird
Re: Microsoft inserts Firefox add-on with new updates (was: Surpri

"glee" wrote:

> Microsoft Basher "98 Guy" <98@Guy.com> excerpted only the parts he
> wanted to respond to, and replied in message
> news:4C1246C6.2DB57565@Guy.com...
> > glee wrote:
> >
> >> > Speaking of a criminal organization, how many of you are aware
> >> > that Microsoft's last auto-update package delivered a firefox
> >> > add-on that tampers with your browser's search functionality
> >>
> >> The Firefox extension and IE add-on from the "Search Enhancement"
> >> update were only installed on systems that had the Live, MSN, or
> >> Bing browser toolbar installed, since it is part of an update that
> >> involves those toolbars.

> >
> > http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/ne...ips-ie-firefox-add-on-into-toolbar-update.ars
> >
> > ---------
> > On one of our Windows systems, we had the Windows Live Toolbar
> > installed
> > for Internet Explorer but not for Firefox. Nevertheless, installing
> > this update added the add-on/extension to both browsers without
> > telling
> > us that it would do so. On our second system, we had the Bing Bar
> > installed for Internet Explorer, but it was disabled. Firefox was not
> > installed. This system already had the update in question, so we
> > decided to install Firefox. Not only was the Bing Bar extension
> > present
> > upon Firefox's first launch, but so was the Search Helper Extension.
> >
> > Additional testing determined that the update is only being offered to
> > those with one of the Microsoft toolbars installed, regardless of
> > whether they are enabled or disabled. It's unknown how many users
> > fall
> > into that scenario, but the toolbars often come bundled with new PCs
> > and
> > popular Microsoft downloads.
> >
> > The worst part of this issue is that Microsoft does not seem to be
> > aware
> > of it: a Microsoft spokesperson simply pointed us to the
> > aforementioned
> > Microsoft Support page that inaccurately describes the update. We
> > asked
> > the company for an explanation of why the extension was installed and
> > what it does, but have yet to receive a reply.
> > ---------
> >
> >> It was not installed as a "critical" update, it was listed as
> >> an "important" update.

> >
> > My mistake. It was listed as important - not optional. Which means
> > it
> > will likely be downloaded automatically on most systems - without
> > their
> > owners knowledge or approval.
> >
> >> Exactly how does it "tamper" with your search functionality?

> >
> > This is the second time that Microsoft has tried to tinker with
> > Firefox
> > on people's PC's. Some people don't like it when new tool bars appear
> > in their browser.
> >
> >> It updates browser integration for the toolbar, and is only
> >> installed if the toolbar is already installed.

> >
> > Not true - read above. This firefox add-on is being installed even
> > when
> > those systems did not previously have a Bing / MS search add-on
> > installed.
> >
> >> As usual, you report half-truths, and are only interested in
> >> attacking Microsoft...

> >
> > Now that you know the full story, are you still sure that this add-on
> > behavior is desirable for end-users, or is it desirable for Microsoft?
> > Is it really an important add-on?
> >
> > Or will you be a Micro$haft appologist and psycophant and believe
> > otherwise?

>
> Oh I see....if I don't agree with you, I'm an apologist for Microsoft,
> or Microshaft as you so childishly put it? It's obvious you're the one
> with an agenda here.
>
> So far, none of us knows the "full story", and I'd rather reserve
> judgment until details of the update are made available, than just start
> making unfounded conjecture. So far MS has not given details, which
> certainly makes them look bad....something they don't need help doing.
>
> You again made an inaccurate statement, when you wrote:
> "Not true - read above. This Firefox add-on is being installed even
> when those systems did not previously have a Bing /MS search add-on
> installed."
>
> I did "read above" and the article you cited clearly states:
> "Additional testing determined that the update is only being offered to
> those with one of the Microsoft toolbars installed, regardless of
> whether they are enabled or disabled."
>
> The update installs on the "system" into a folder tree that contains the
> files for every browser that can install the toolbars and the "search
> enhancement". If the toolbar is installed in IE but not in Firefox,
> when the update is installed (with the files for both browsers), the
> add-on for Firefox is installed from those files. I don't think that's
> unreasonable, as otherwise the updater has to snoop into the Firefox
> profile folders to determine whether the toolbar is installed in that
> particular browser for EACH user profile (Firefox has separate profiles
> for each user on the system)....and THEN you would be screaming bloody
> murder that the update process was spying into the Firefox profile
> folders! So the PROCESS used to install is actually not bad, given the
> details of what's involved.
>
> That said, is the update itself needed in the first place? Is it
> actually "important" as it is listed? We don't know, because MS hasn't
> given any info about it. Why not? Good question. Possibly because the
> update is only delivered and installed by the Microsoft Update team, but
> was written by the Windows Live Team...which covers all the <yeech>
> Windows Live applications. My Guess is it is far from important, and
> doesn't do a darn thing of use for the user.
>
> Graying out the Uninstall button for the add-on? Really bad practice!
> Not indicating that it will install the add-on in Firefox, and that it
> will even if the toolbar is only installed in IE? REALLY bad practice!
>
> From what I've heard, the MS Update Services team is "looking into" what
> this update does....they'll probably have to pull teeth from the Live
> team to get answers. Left hand not knowing what Right hand is doing is
> typical of large corporations, and MS is especially good at it.
>
> Now, I'm still waiting to hear why you've had nothing to say for years
> about the Sun Java Firefox add-on that's installed without warning by
> Sun Java updates. It allows Java apps to run in the browser...not in a
> sandbox...a potentially large security risk. Yet we hear not a peep
> from anyone about that....why is that, I wonder? Because you're not
> really interested in bringing real security issues to light, your only
> interested in bashing Microsoft.
> --
> Glen Ventura, MS MVP Oct. 2002 - Sept. 2009
> A+
> http://dts-l.net/
>
> .


Thank you for your input Glen. I noticed this was added on to my Mozilla
Firefox in Windows Vista and I do not even use their toolbar but do use a few
of the Windows Live Services with Windows Vista so I guess it got tagged as a
download. I manually updated it and did see it as an important update.
Anyway, I have currently disabled it but was surprised that the unistall
button is grayed out unlike the Java Console that will let you unistall it
and not just easily disable it. It should certainly have been offered as an
optional update and also allow for easy unistall for the user. This is a
good example of why people should not use automatic updates and regard all
updates that are less than critical with a grain of salt before automatically
downloading and installing. I plan to research this some more. Finally,
companies should not add anything else to products other than their own
software in my opinion and this goes not just for Microsoft but also to
Oracle/Sun Java and every other software company, imo.

http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/ne...-mystery-firefox-extension-fixes-update-1.ars
 
G

glee

Flightless Bird
Re: Microsoft inserts Firefox add-on with new updates (was: Surpri

"Dan" <Dan@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:0B71DB5B-7551-4C73-A739-9121A973CB89@microsoft.com...
> snip
>
> Thank you for your input Glen. I noticed this was added on to my
> Mozilla
> Firefox in Windows Vista and I do not even use their toolbar but do
> use a few
> of the Windows Live Services with Windows Vista so I guess it got
> tagged as a
> download. I manually updated it and did see it as an important
> update.
> Anyway, I have currently disabled it but was surprised that the
> unistall
> button is grayed out unlike the Java Console that will let you
> unistall it
> and not just easily disable it. It should certainly have been offered
> as an
> optional update and also allow for easy unistall for the user. This
> is a
> good example of why people should not use automatic updates and regard
> all
> updates that are less than critical with a grain of salt before
> automatically
> downloading and installing. I plan to research this some more.
> Finally,
> companies should not add anything else to products other than their
> own
> software in my opinion and this goes not just for Microsoft but also
> to
> Oracle/Sun Java and every other software company, imo.
>
> http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/ne...-mystery-firefox-extension-fixes-update-1.ars


Thanks for the link, Dan.....at least it gives a little more info on
what the update is for.

Although it would be nice if no updates were installed by any company to
any software but their own, it can't work out that way. If Sun Java is
installed, components have to be added to the installed web browsers,
because Java will be implemented in those browsers. In this case, a
toolbar is installed in the browser, and updates to that toolbar may add
components to the browser.
The two most prevalent browser toolbars, Google Toolbar and Yahoo
Toolbar, add items not only to the browsers but also to Windows startup
axis, run regular updaters, and if enabled send info back to Google or
Yahoo....and no one finds this intrusive?
It amazes me that people get up in arms over a browser add-on that
supports an installed toolbar from Microsoft, but ignore similar or
worse behavior from Sun, Google or Yahoo.
--
Glen Ventura, MS MVP Oct. 2002 - Sept. 2009
A+
http://dts-l.net/
 
9

98 Guy

Flightless Bird
Re: Microsoft inserts Firefox add-on with new updates (was: Surpri

glee wrote:

> Although it would be nice if no updates were installed by any
> company to any software but their own, it can't work out that
> way.


Yes, it can work that way. Microsoft wanted to do what-ever it could to
insure that Firefox users might at least stumble upon Bing as a search
option as they used their browser, thereby increasing there market share
of the search market and increase their advertizing revenue.

Give me one example of how any of Sun's wayward or inappropiate updates
were designed to accomplish the same end.

> It amazes me that people get up in arms over a browser add-on that
> supports an installed toolbar from Microsoft,


How can you say that, when Microsoft is now admitting that they made a
mistake as to how the update applied itself?

Of course we should be up-in-arms about these instances, because if we
are not, Microsoft will become accustomed to doing them more often.

---------------
Microsoft explains mystery Firefox extension, "fixes" update:

http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/ne...-mystery-firefox-extension-fixes-update-1.ars

"In other words, the update will no longer be distributed to toolbars
that it shouldn't be added to."
---------------

It's too late for those systems that have already performed the last WU
session. This particular "update" does not show up in Control Panel =>
Programs and Features => Installed Updates. Furthermore, the Uninstall
button for the extension is greyed out in Firefox.

Ya sure, you say that it could have been a simple configuration mistake
for it to apply itself to Firefox when firefox has NO
previously-installed msn or bing tool bar (who cares if the user's IE
has such a tool bar - that doesn't mean the update should also install
itself on Firefox if the user did not install an MS-based tool bar or
add-on for Firefox).

But when the update intentionally removes the mechanism to allow the
user to delete or uninstall it, and when MS classifies the update as
"important", then all together this points to intent to plant a Bing
search option on the Firefox settings panel that Microsoft hopes for
casual users to stumble upon it and turn it on. Their motive was purely
financial. Microsoft's mindset surrounding this update came purely from
their sales and marketing divisions. It was no mistake the way this was
rolled out by Macro$haft.
 
A

Anteaus

Flightless Bird
Re: Microsoft inserts Firefox add-on with new updates (was: Surpri

99% of users have no need for Java, and it does pose a measurable security
problem. That said, Java has a legitimate purpose, it's just that its days of
being used by websites are largely over. If you use OpenOffice you may need
Java, but even so you can disable the browser plugin in the settings, or by
editing the FF config file greprefs\all.js if you want to stop people
re-enabling it.

As opposed to toolbars which are an attempt to foist stuff onto the user,
and almost always for reasons which are not in the user's interest.

"98 Guy" wrote:

> glee wrote:
>
> > Although it would be nice if no updates were installed by any
> > company to any software but their own, it can't work out that
> > way.

>
> Yes, it can work that way. Microsoft wanted to do what-ever it could to
> insure that Firefox users might at least stumble upon Bing as a search
> option as they used their browser, thereby increasing there market share
> of the search market and increase their advertizing revenue.
>
> Give me one example of how any of Sun's wayward or inappropiate updates
> were designed to accomplish the same end.
>
> > It amazes me that people get up in arms over a browser add-on that
> > supports an installed toolbar from Microsoft,

>
> How can you say that, when Microsoft is now admitting that they made a
> mistake as to how the update applied itself?
>
> Of course we should be up-in-arms about these instances, because if we
> are not, Microsoft will become accustomed to doing them more often.
>
> ---------------
> Microsoft explains mystery Firefox extension, "fixes" update:
>
> http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/ne...-mystery-firefox-extension-fixes-update-1.ars
>
> "In other words, the update will no longer be distributed to toolbars
> that it shouldn't be added to."
> ---------------
>
> It's too late for those systems that have already performed the last WU
> session. This particular "update" does not show up in Control Panel =>
> Programs and Features => Installed Updates. Furthermore, the Uninstall
> button for the extension is greyed out in Firefox.
>
> Ya sure, you say that it could have been a simple configuration mistake
> for it to apply itself to Firefox when firefox has NO
> previously-installed msn or bing tool bar (who cares if the user's IE
> has such a tool bar - that doesn't mean the update should also install
> itself on Firefox if the user did not install an MS-based tool bar or
> add-on for Firefox).
>
> But when the update intentionally removes the mechanism to allow the
> user to delete or uninstall it, and when MS classifies the update as
> "important", then all together this points to intent to plant a Bing
> search option on the Firefox settings panel that Microsoft hopes for
> casual users to stumble upon it and turn it on. Their motive was purely
> financial. Microsoft's mindset surrounding this update came purely from
> their sales and marketing divisions. It was no mistake the way this was
> rolled out by Macro$haft.
> .
>
 
9

98 Guy

Flightless Bird
Re: Microsoft inserts Firefox add-on with new updates (was: Surpri

Anteaus top-poasted and full-quoted:

> 99% of users have no need for Java, and it does pose a measurable
> security problem.


I've got some IP web-cams that use java when accessed with non-ie web
browser.

For web-based device command and control you're going to need java.
Your only other option is activex and IE.
 
G

glee

Flightless Bird
Re: Microsoft inserts Firefox add-on with new updates (was: Surpri

"98 Guy" <98@Guy.com> wrote in message news:4C14E777.B07BDA77@Guy.com...
> glee wrote:
>
>> Although it would be nice if no updates were installed by any
>> company to any software but their own, it can't work out that
>> way.

>
> Yes, it can work that way. Microsoft wanted to do what-ever it could
> to
> insure that Firefox users might at least stumble upon Bing as a search
> option as they used their browser, thereby increasing there market
> share
> of the search market and increase their advertizing revenue.
>
> Give me one example of how any of Sun's wayward or inappropiate
> updates
> were designed to accomplish the same end.
>
>> It amazes me that people get up in arms over a browser add-on that
>> supports an installed toolbar from Microsoft,

>
> How can you say that, when Microsoft is now admitting that they made a
> mistake as to how the update applied itself?
>
> Of course we should be up-in-arms about these instances, because if we
> are not, Microsoft will become accustomed to doing them more often.
>
> ---------------
> Microsoft explains mystery Firefox extension, "fixes" update:
>
> http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/ne...-mystery-firefox-extension-fixes-update-1.ars
>
> "In other words, the update will no longer be distributed to toolbars
> that it shouldn't be added to."
> ---------------
>
> It's too late for those systems that have already performed the last
> WU
> session. This particular "update" does not show up in Control Panel
> =>
> Programs and Features => Installed Updates. Furthermore, the Uninstall
> button for the extension is greyed out in Firefox.
>
> Ya sure, you say that it could have been a simple configuration
> mistake
> for it to apply itself to Firefox when firefox has NO
> previously-installed msn or bing tool bar (who cares if the user's IE
> has such a tool bar - that doesn't mean the update should also install
> itself on Firefox if the user did not install an MS-based tool bar or
> add-on for Firefox).
>
> But when the update intentionally removes the mechanism to allow the
> user to delete or uninstall it, and when MS classifies the update as
> "important", then all together this points to intent to plant a Bing
> search option on the Firefox settings panel that Microsoft hopes for
> casual users to stumble upon it and turn it on. Their motive was
> purely
> financial. Microsoft's mindset surrounding this update came purely
> from
> their sales and marketing divisions. It was no mistake the way this
> was
> rolled out by Macro$haft.


You seem to have a reading comprehension problem.
As usual, you excerpt one line from the article:
"In other words, the update will no longer be distributed to toolbars
that it shouldn't be added to."
but you leave out the other lines that describe what toolbars they refer
to.

"...we discovered a bug in the latest update that was installing the
Firefox extension for users with the Windows Live Toolbar and MSN
Toolbar (specifically people who have not upgraded to the latest version
of the Bing Bar). We fixed the update so that going forward folks who
still have only the older Windows Live Toolbar or MSN Toolbar will not
see this behavior anymore. The extension in Firefox will be update[d]
for users who have the Bing Bar or the latest version of MSN Toolbar
(version 4.0), since both are available for both IE and FF."

The add-on is STILL going to added to Firefox for users who have the
Bing Bar or the latest version of MSN Toolbar installed on the *system*,
whether or not it is installed in Firefox.

The update is NOT digging into the individual user profiles of Firefox
to see if the toolbar is installed or enabled...it only updates the
Microsoft folder for the toolbar in the Programs Files folder. This is
less intrusive and prevents snooping into the Firefox profile folder
tree. I already stated this in my earlier reply.....you are only
excerpting the portions that suit your argument, and selectively
ignoring anything that does not support your aim, which in NOT to look
at the whole picture, but to feed your desire to bash Microsoft
regardless of the facts.

Microsoft also supplied info on how to remove the update, so no, it's
not "too late" for those who already installed the update.

Your claim that it was Microsoft's "intent to plant a Bing search option
on the Firefox settings panel that Microsoft hopes for casual users to
stumble upon it and turn it on" is fairly ridiculous. If the Bing
toolbar is not installed in Firefox, the add-on wouldn't do
anything....it just sits there in the add-on list.

You stated:
> Give me one example of how any of Sun's wayward or inappropiate
> updates
> were designed to accomplish the same end.


Well now, Sun doesn't make their own toolbar or search engine, do they?
So they can't make an update that does the same thing. Big whoopee.
What they do, and have done for years, is every time they make a Java
update available (which are almost always security updates to fix
vulnerabilities in their software), is add to their Java update an
installer for a toolbar (at one time it was the Google toolbar or Yahoo
bar, recently it's been the Bing bar) with the option to install it
ALREADY CHECKMARKED, appearing in the middle of the installation
routine, where most users do not even notice it, so it is installed
without their realizing it. Why? Because Sun get paid to add that
installer to their update, thereby increasing Sun's revenue by sneaking
an installation of superfluous software into a security update. They
have in the past done the same with an OpenOffice installer instead of a
toolbar. IMO this is worse than what you are whining about....adding
unrelated software installations already checkmarked to install, to a
security update.

I am wasting my time here, as long as your ultimate goal is to bash a
company rather than examine facts objectively. I am not defending the
update and especially not the way it was put out, but I am looking at
the scope of what it does and why. You have already decided Microsoft
is evil and everything they do is nefarious....yet you ignore similar
activity by Sun, and other companies. The Google and Yahoo toolbar
installer and updaters, as well as others, do worse, but you'll overlook
that because it doesn't further your goal of attacking MS. Your lame
tactics get old quick....
--
Glen Ventura, MS MVP Oct. 2002 - Sept. 2009
A+
http://dts-l.net/
 
G

glee

Flightless Bird
Re: Microsoft inserts Firefox add-on with new updates (was: Surpri

I'm not a fan of toolbars, and many are foisted upon the user without
their realizing it, during an installation (see Sun Java's
already-checked option to install the Bing bar during a Java update, or
the Yahoo toolbar and Companion and whatever else they add to a system
now). But many users do consciously install certain toolbars because
they do provide options the user wants.....I suspect a large number of
Google toolbar installations are conscious decisions, or at least they
were a few years ago....

It's debatable whether Java serves a useful purpose...it runs Java
applets in the browser, but there are others ways to accomplish what
Java does. I can go months without ever using Java in my browsers, and
there's considerably more risk involved with Java than with many
toolbars. {shrug}

....glen


"Anteaus" <Anteaus@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:8BACEB33-9F2F-4C0F-9303-759CC73C62FB@microsoft.com...
> 99% of users have no need for Java, and it does pose a measurable
> security
> problem. That said, Java has a legitimate purpose, it's just that its
> days of
> being used by websites are largely over. If you use OpenOffice you may
> need
> Java, but even so you can disable the browser plugin in the settings,
> or by
> editing the FF config file greprefs\all.js if you want to stop people
> re-enabling it.
>
> As opposed to toolbars which are an attempt to foist stuff onto the
> user,
> and almost always for reasons which are not in the user's interest.
>
> "98 Guy" wrote:
>
>> glee wrote:
>>
>> > Although it would be nice if no updates were installed by any
>> > company to any software but their own, it can't work out that
>> > way.

>>
>> Yes, it can work that way. Microsoft wanted to do what-ever it could
>> to
>> insure that Firefox users might at least stumble upon Bing as a
>> search
>> option as they used their browser, thereby increasing there market
>> share
>> of the search market and increase their advertizing revenue.
>>
>> Give me one example of how any of Sun's wayward or inappropiate
>> updates
>> were designed to accomplish the same end.
>>
>> > It amazes me that people get up in arms over a browser add-on that
>> > supports an installed toolbar from Microsoft,

>>
>> How can you say that, when Microsoft is now admitting that they made
>> a
>> mistake as to how the update applied itself?
>>
>> Of course we should be up-in-arms about these instances, because if
>> we
>> are not, Microsoft will become accustomed to doing them more often.
>>
>> ---------------
>> Microsoft explains mystery Firefox extension, "fixes" update:
>>
>> http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/ne...-mystery-firefox-extension-fixes-update-1.ars
>>
>> "In other words, the update will no longer be distributed to toolbars
>> that it shouldn't be added to."
>> ---------------
>>
>> It's too late for those systems that have already performed the last
>> WU
>> session. This particular "update" does not show up in Control Panel
>> =>
>> Programs and Features => Installed Updates. Furthermore, the
>> Uninstall
>> button for the extension is greyed out in Firefox.
>>
>> Ya sure, you say that it could have been a simple configuration
>> mistake
>> for it to apply itself to Firefox when firefox has NO
>> previously-installed msn or bing tool bar (who cares if the user's IE
>> has such a tool bar - that doesn't mean the update should also
>> install
>> itself on Firefox if the user did not install an MS-based tool bar or
>> add-on for Firefox).
>>
>> But when the update intentionally removes the mechanism to allow the
>> user to delete or uninstall it, and when MS classifies the update as
>> "important", then all together this points to intent to plant a Bing
>> search option on the Firefox settings panel that Microsoft hopes for
>> casual users to stumble upon it and turn it on. Their motive was
>> purely
>> financial. Microsoft's mindset surrounding this update came purely
>> from
>> their sales and marketing divisions. It was no mistake the way this
>> was
>> rolled out by Macro$haft.
>> .
>>
 
D

Dan

Flightless Bird
Re: Microsoft inserts Firefox add-on with new updates (was: Surpri

<snipped for length concerns>


> Thanks for the link, Dan.....at least it gives a little more info on
> what the update is for.
>
> Although it would be nice if no updates were installed by any company to
> any software but their own, it can't work out that way. If Sun Java is
> installed, components have to be added to the installed web browsers,
> because Java will be implemented in those browsers. In this case, a
> toolbar is installed in the browser, and updates to that toolbar may add
> components to the browser.
> The two most prevalent browser toolbars, Google Toolbar and Yahoo
> Toolbar, add items not only to the browsers but also to Windows startup
> axis, run regular updaters, and if enabled send info back to Google or
> Yahoo....and no one finds this intrusive?
> It amazes me that people get up in arms over a browser add-on that
> supports an installed toolbar from Microsoft, but ignore similar or
> worse behavior from Sun, Google or Yahoo.
> --
> Glen Ventura, MS MVP Oct. 2002 - Sept. 2009
> A+
> http://dts-l.net/
>


Your welcome, Glen. Well, I removed the update manually from Mozilla
Firefox by removing the extension pack from Vista. Anyway, I searched
through the registry as well and did not see anything amiss.
 
T

T Shadow

Flightless Bird
Re: Microsoft inserts Firefox add-on with new updates (was: Surpri

"glee" <glee29@spamindspring.com> wrote in message
news:hv62f9$ckm$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> I'm not a fan of toolbars, and many are foisted upon the user without
> their realizing it, during an installation (see Sun Java's already-checked
> option to install the Bing bar during a Java update, or the Yahoo toolbar
> and Companion and whatever else they add to a system now). But many users
> do consciously install certain toolbars because they do provide options
> the user wants.....I suspect a large number of Google toolbar
> installations are conscious decisions, or at least they were a few years
> ago....
>


Most of the people I ask about the tool bars on thier computer don't know
what a tool bar is let alone how they(plural) got on thier system. Of course
they also don't know about all the junk, running for years, that the OEM
burdened them with either. Not talking about the kind of people that follow
newsgroups though. The people that don't know greatly out number those that
do. Probably legal for car mfg to taxi people around in the trunk of cars
they've sold without the owner knowing too. :^b
 
8

8os.8@invalid.nomail

Flightless Bird
Re: Microsoft inserts Firefox add-on with new updates (was: Surpri

14 Jun 2010,"T Shadow" <None@void.com> in
news:uMgac8FDLHA.420@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl:

> Probably legal for car mfg to taxi people around in the trunk of
> cars they've sold without the owner knowing too. :^b



don't think that would work for long unless they seal the bags really well :)
 
Top