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Print Spooling vs suspend

Discussion in 'Windows XP' started by Jeff Barnett, Feb 4, 2010.

  1. Jeff Barnett

    Jeff Barnett Flightless Bird

    A few days ago we took one of our printers off the network and to a
    repair shop. Later we noticed that one of our computers no longer
    dropped to sleep (S3 mode). I've spent a few days trying to figure out
    why and repair the problem. The computer owner suddenly recalled trying
    to print something after the printer was removed from the network so the
    print job was in the spool. The print job was deleted and the computer
    went to sleep! I'm sending this note for two reasons:

    1) In case someone else out there is tracking down a sleep problem -
    It's tricky since the printer icon can disappear from the task bar
    removing hints about the source of the problem

    2) To ask a question based on my memory: MEMORY = (I think that MS
    required software to work and play well with sleep modes in order to be
    XP certified.) QUESTION = (If memory is correct wouldn't the XP spooler
    fail to be XP certified if someone other than MS wrote it?)

    Tongue firmly in cheek on 2 above.
    --
    Jeff Barnett
     
  2. Pegasus [MVP]

    Pegasus [MVP] Flightless Bird

    "Jeff Barnett" <jbbrus@ca.rr.com> said this in news item
    news:-OoL$IvdpKHA.1548@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
    > A few days ago we took one of our printers off the network and to a repair
    > shop. Later we noticed that one of our computers no longer dropped to
    > sleep (S3 mode). I've spent a few days trying to figure out why and repair
    > the problem. The computer owner suddenly recalled trying to print
    > something after the printer was removed from the network so the print job
    > was in the spool. The print job was deleted and the computer went to
    > sleep! I'm sending this note for two reasons:
    >
    > 1) In case someone else out there is tracking down a sleep problem - It's
    > tricky since the printer icon can disappear from the task bar removing
    > hints about the source of the problem
    >
    > 2) To ask a question based on my memory: MEMORY = (I think that MS
    > required software to work and play well with sleep modes in order to be XP
    > certified.) QUESTION = (If memory is correct wouldn't the XP spooler fail
    > to be XP certified if someone other than MS wrote it?)
    >
    > Tongue firmly in cheek on 2 above.
    > --
    > Jeff Barnett


    I suspect that it is by design that pending print requests should prevent a
    PC from going into a sleep state. It is likely that many printers are unable
    to cope with an extended interruption in the flow of print data. What would
    you say if you had a network printer that refused to accept any more print
    jobs because the PC that has just sent half of a print job has been put to
    sleep? You would probably slam Microsoft for not having thought this through
    properly.

    I think you can take your tongue out of your cheek.
     
  3. Jeff Barnett

    Jeff Barnett Flightless Bird

    Pegasus [MVP] wrote:
    >
    >
    > "Jeff Barnett" <jbbrus@ca.rr.com> said this in news item
    > news:-OoL$IvdpKHA.1548@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
    >> A few days ago we took one of our printers off the network and to a
    >> repair shop. Later we noticed that one of our computers no longer
    >> dropped to sleep (S3 mode). I've spent a few days trying to figure
    >> out why and repair the problem. The computer owner suddenly recalled
    >> trying to print something after the printer was removed from the
    >> network so the print job was in the spool. The print job was deleted
    >> and the computer went to sleep! I'm sending this note for two reasons:
    >>
    >> 1) In case someone else out there is tracking down a sleep problem -
    >> It's tricky since the printer icon can disappear from the task bar
    >> removing hints about the source of the problem
    >>
    >> 2) To ask a question based on my memory: MEMORY = (I think that MS
    >> required software to work and play well with sleep modes in order to
    >> be XP certified.) QUESTION = (If memory is correct wouldn't the XP
    >> spooler fail to be XP certified if someone other than MS wrote it?)
    >>
    >> Tongue firmly in cheek on 2 above.
    >> --
    >> Jeff Barnett

    >
    > I suspect that it is by design that pending print requests should
    > prevent a PC from going into a sleep state. It is likely that many
    > printers are unable to cope with an extended interruption in the flow
    > of print data. What would you say if you had a network printer that
    > refused to accept any more print jobs because the PC that has just
    > sent half of a print job has been put to sleep? You would probably
    > slam Microsoft for not having thought this through properly.
    >
    > I think you can take your tongue out of your cheek.

    Note that the job had never reached the printer because it was OFF the
    network (and at the repair shop). Therefore, the spooler kept trying to
    send the job and not even a byte (or a packet depending on how the net
    error was reported) of the print stream arrived. The point is that after
    N tries, where N was certainly not a small number after two days, there
    is reason to believe that 1) the time between tries should have been
    backed off and/or 2) a mechanism should have been used that did not
    disturb the count-down-to-sleep timer. I'm still of the opinion, given
    that my memory is correct, that MS would not have certified this
    behavior for another organization. And my tongue is still in my cheek.
    --
    Jeff Barnett
     
  4. Jose

    Jose Flightless Bird

    On Feb 4, 3:51 pm, Jeff Barnett <jbb...@ca.rr.com> wrote:
    > A few days ago we took one of our printers off the network and to a
    > repair shop. Later we noticed that one of our computers no longer
    > dropped to sleep (S3 mode). I've spent a few days trying to figure out
    > why and repair the problem. The computer owner suddenly recalled trying
    > to print something after the printer was removed from the network so the
    > print job was in the spool. The print job was deleted and the computer
    > went to sleep! I'm sending this note for two reasons:
    >
    > 1) In case someone else out there is tracking down a sleep problem -
    > It's tricky since the printer icon can disappear from the task bar
    > removing hints about the source of the problem
    >
    > 2) To ask a question based on my memory: MEMORY = (I think that MS
    > required software to work and play well with sleep modes in order to be
    > XP certified.) QUESTION = (If memory is correct wouldn't the XP spooler
    > fail to be XP certified if someone other than MS wrote it?)
    >
    > Tongue firmly in cheek on 2 above.
    > --
    > Jeff Barnett


    Do you mean Stand By mode (or Hibernate)?

    Why don't you try it again and see.

    I unhooked my wireless printer and printed a file. It ended up where
    all good print jobs go:

    C:/Windows\system32\spool\PRINTERS

    As a matter of fact, I printed several things using various programs.

    I adjusted my Power Options System standby setting (I could not find
    any sleep option) from Never to 2 minutes, OK'd my way out, double
    clicked the clock so I could watch the time and in 2 minutes, the
    system entered Stand By.

    I already know Hibernate works when there are pending jobs in the
    spool folder since I choose to use Hibernate instead of Stand By.

    I did not get any print icon either so there was nothing to disappear
    since it never appeared.

    I clicked the mouse to bring the system around, plugged my printer
    back in, and was shortly presented a print preview of my document
    since that is how I have my system set up (print preview) and the
    printer icon showed up until all my print jobs were dispatched. The
    files printed fine.

    I'm not saying you don't have a problem, but if you can try it and
    verify that would be good information to know.

    I cannot recreate any situation where a pending print job inhibits
    Stand By or Hibernate. If you can think of another way for me to test
    it, I will do it.
     
  5. Jose

    Jose Flightless Bird

    On Feb 4, 6:59 pm, Jose <jose_e...@yahoo.com> wrote:
    > On Feb 4, 3:51 pm, Jeff Barnett <jbb...@ca.rr.com> wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > > A few days ago we took one of our printers off the network and to a
    > > repair shop. Later we noticed that one of our computers no longer
    > > dropped to sleep (S3 mode). I've spent a few days trying to figure out
    > > why and repair the problem. The computer owner suddenly recalled trying
    > > to print something after the printer was removed from the network so the
    > > print job was in the spool. The print job was deleted and the computer
    > > went to sleep! I'm sending this note for two reasons:

    >
    > > 1) In case someone else out there is tracking down a sleep problem -
    > > It's tricky since the printer icon can disappear from the task bar
    > > removing hints about the source of the problem

    >
    > > 2) To ask a question based on my memory: MEMORY = (I think that MS
    > > required software to work and play well with sleep modes in order to be
    > > XP certified.) QUESTION = (If memory is correct wouldn't the XP spooler
    > > fail to be XP certified if someone other than MS wrote it?)

    >
    > > Tongue firmly in cheek on 2 above.
    > > --
    > > Jeff Barnett

    >
    > Do you mean Stand By mode (or Hibernate)?
    >
    > Why don't you try it again and see.
    >
    > I unhooked my wireless printer and printed a file.  It ended up where
    > all good print jobs go:
    >
    > C:/Windows\system32\spool\PRINTERS
    >
    > As a matter of fact, I printed several things using various programs.
    >
    > I adjusted my Power Options System standby setting (I could not find
    > any sleep option) from Never to 2 minutes, OK'd my way out, double
    > clicked the clock so I could watch the time and in 2 minutes, the
    > system entered Stand By.
    >
    > I already know Hibernate works when there are pending jobs in the
    > spool folder since I choose to use Hibernate instead of Stand By.
    >
    > I did not get any print icon either so there was nothing to disappear
    > since it never appeared.
    >
    > I clicked the mouse to bring the system around, plugged my printer
    > back in, and was shortly presented a print preview of my document
    > since that is how I have my system set up (print preview) and the
    > printer icon showed up until all my print jobs were dispatched.  The
    > files printed fine.
    >
    > I'm not saying you don't have a problem, but if you can try it and
    > verify that would be good information to know.
    >
    > I cannot recreate any situation where a pending print job inhibits
    > Stand By or Hibernate.  If you can think of another way for me to test
    > it, I will do it.


    I also just tried it with a USB wired printer and it works the same
    way as my wireless printer - as expected. I wouldn't think MS would
    care how the printer was connected and apparently is doesn't in my
    situation.
     
  6. Jeff Barnett

    Jeff Barnett Flightless Bird

    Jose wrote:
    > On Feb 4, 6:59 pm, Jose <jose_e...@yahoo.com> wrote:
    >
    >> On Feb 4, 3:51 pm, Jeff Barnett <jbb...@ca.rr.com> wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>> A few days ago we took one of our printers off the network and to a
    >>> repair shop. Later we noticed that one of our computers no longer
    >>> dropped to sleep (S3 mode). I've spent a few days trying to figure out
    >>> why and repair the problem. The computer owner suddenly recalled trying
    >>> to print something after the printer was removed from the network so the
    >>> print job was in the spool. The print job was deleted and the computer
    >>> went to sleep! I'm sending this note for two reasons:
    >>>
    >>> 1) In case someone else out there is tracking down a sleep problem -
    >>> It's tricky since the printer icon can disappear from the task bar
    >>> removing hints about the source of the problem
    >>>
    >>> 2) To ask a question based on my memory: MEMORY = (I think that MS
    >>> required software to work and play well with sleep modes in order to be
    >>> XP certified.) QUESTION = (If memory is correct wouldn't the XP spooler
    >>> fail to be XP certified if someone other than MS wrote it?)
    >>>
    >>> Tongue firmly in cheek on 2 above.
    >>> --
    >>> Jeff Barnett
    >>>

    >> Do you mean Stand By mode (or Hibernate)?
    >>
    >> Why don't you try it again and see.
    >>
    >> I unhooked my wireless printer and printed a file. It ended up where
    >> all good print jobs go:
    >>
    >> C:/Windows\system32\spool\PRINTERS
    >>
    >> As a matter of fact, I printed several things using various programs.
    >>
    >> I adjusted my Power Options System standby setting (I could not find
    >> any sleep option) from Never to 2 minutes, OK'd my way out, double
    >> clicked the clock so I could watch the time and in 2 minutes, the
    >> system entered Stand By.
    >>
    >> I already know Hibernate works when there are pending jobs in the
    >> spool folder since I choose to use Hibernate instead of Stand By.
    >>
    >> I did not get any print icon either so there was nothing to disappear
    >> since it never appeared.
    >>
    >> I clicked the mouse to bring the system around, plugged my printer
    >> back in, and was shortly presented a print preview of my document
    >> since that is how I have my system set up (print preview) and the
    >> printer icon showed up until all my print jobs were dispatched. The
    >> files printed fine.
    >>
    >> I'm not saying you don't have a problem, but if you can try it and
    >> verify that would be good information to know.
    >>
    >> I cannot recreate any situation where a pending print job inhibits
    >> Stand By or Hibernate. If you can think of another way for me to test
    >> it, I will do it.
    >>

    >
    > I also just tried it with a USB wired printer and it works the same
    > way as my wireless printer - as expected. I wouldn't think MS would
    > care how the printer was connected and apparently is doesn't in my
    > situation.
    >

    As I stated in my original message, the sleep/suspend mode was S3;
    hibernate is S4. S3 is also called suspend to RAM. As I understand MS
    rules for initiating S2/S3/S4, the CPU cannot be more than x% busy for a
    user specified period or no state transfer will occur. (Of course you
    can give one of the various suspend/hibernate now commands and it will
    force transition.) So in part the ability to sleep will depend on the
    relative sizes of x%, the user-specified period, the spooler
    time-between-checks, the amount of resources necessary to poll the
    printer, and several other things. What I managed to discover was that a
    printer missing/not responding state can block state transition. The
    only time you probably would care about this tidbit of trivia is if your
    computer was failing to enter sleep automatically.
    --
    Jeff Barnett
     
  7. Jose

    Jose Flightless Bird

    On Feb 4, 10:39 pm, Jeff Barnett <jbb...@ca.rr.com> wrote:
    > Jose wrote:
    > > On Feb 4, 6:59 pm, Jose <jose_e...@yahoo.com> wrote:

    >
    > >> On Feb 4, 3:51 pm, Jeff Barnett <jbb...@ca.rr.com> wrote:

    >
    > >>> A few days ago we took one of our printers off the network and to a
    > >>> repair shop. Later we noticed that one of our computers no longer
    > >>> dropped to sleep (S3 mode). I've spent a few days trying to figure out
    > >>> why and repair the problem. The computer owner suddenly recalled trying
    > >>> to print something after the printer was removed from the network so the
    > >>> print job was in the spool. The print job was deleted and the computer
    > >>> went to sleep! I'm sending this note for two reasons:

    >
    > >>> 1) In case someone else out there is tracking down a sleep problem -
    > >>> It's tricky since the printer icon can disappear from the task bar
    > >>> removing hints about the source of the problem

    >
    > >>> 2) To ask a question based on my memory: MEMORY = (I think that MS
    > >>> required software to work and play well with sleep modes in order to be
    > >>> XP certified.) QUESTION = (If memory is correct wouldn't the XP spooler
    > >>> fail to be XP certified if someone other than MS wrote it?)

    >
    > >>> Tongue firmly in cheek on 2 above.
    > >>> --
    > >>> Jeff Barnett

    >
    > >> Do you mean Stand By mode (or Hibernate)?

    >
    > >> Why don't you try it again and see.

    >
    > >> I unhooked my wireless printer and printed a file.  It ended up where
    > >> all good print jobs go:

    >
    > >> C:/Windows\system32\spool\PRINTERS

    >
    > >> As a matter of fact, I printed several things using various programs.

    >
    > >> I adjusted my Power Options System standby setting (I could not find
    > >> any sleep option) from Never to 2 minutes, OK'd my way out, double
    > >> clicked the clock so I could watch the time and in 2 minutes, the
    > >> system entered Stand By.

    >
    > >> I already know Hibernate works when there are pending jobs in the
    > >> spool folder since I choose to use Hibernate instead of Stand By.

    >
    > >> I did not get any print icon either so there was nothing to disappear
    > >> since it never appeared.

    >
    > >> I clicked the mouse to bring the system around, plugged my printer
    > >> back in, and was shortly presented a print preview of my document
    > >> since that is how I have my system set up (print preview) and the
    > >> printer icon showed up until all my print jobs were dispatched.  The
    > >> files printed fine.

    >
    > >> I'm not saying you don't have a problem, but if you can try it and
    > >> verify that would be good information to know.

    >
    > >> I cannot recreate any situation where a pending print job inhibits
    > >> Stand By or Hibernate.  If you can think of another way for me to test
    > >> it, I will do it.

    >
    > > I also just tried it with a USB wired printer and it works the same
    > > way as my wireless printer - as expected.  I wouldn't think MS would
    > > care how the printer was connected and apparently is doesn't in my
    > > situation.

    >
    > As I stated in my original message, the sleep/suspend mode was S3;
    > hibernate is S4. S3 is also called suspend to RAM. As I understand MS
    > rules for initiating S2/S3/S4, the CPU cannot be more than x% busy for a
    > user specified period or no state transfer will occur. (Of course you
    > can give one of the various suspend/hibernate now commands and it will
    > force transition.) So in part the ability to sleep will depend on the
    > relative sizes of x%, the user-specified period, the spooler
    > time-between-checks, the amount of resources necessary to poll the
    > printer, and several other things. What I managed to discover was that a
    > printer missing/not responding state can block state transition. The
    > only time you probably would care about this tidbit of trivia is if your
    > computer was failing to enter sleep automatically.
    > --
    > Jeff Barnett


    Relative sizes, unspecified period - X%, spooler time-between-checks
    (what is the spooler time between checks), several other things...
    doesn't sound like very good science since none of the variables
    mentioned include a method to tie a specific value to one of the
    terms. What are the several other things.

    Where are you getting these MS rules for initiating S2/S3/S4?

    What method was used to discover that a printer missing/not responding
    state can block state transition and how would I recreate that state?
    I just want to experience it since I hardly ever have my printer on
    and have never had a problem with Hibernating that was not self
    induced.

    I just don't see how a disconnected network or other printer will keep
    a system from entering Stand By or Hibernate after the specified
    period, assuming it was working before.

    If there is a way for merely a disconnected printer to keep my system
    from entering Stand By or Hibernate, I would like to know what it is.
    I want to somehow tie the inability to enter Stand By to a
    disconnected printer.
     
  8. Jeff Barnett

    Jeff Barnett Flightless Bird

    Jose wrote:
    > On Feb 4, 10:39 pm, Jeff Barnett <jbb...@ca.rr.com> wrote:
    >
    >> Jose wrote:
    >>
    >>> On Feb 4, 6:59 pm, Jose <jose_e...@yahoo.com> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> On Feb 4, 3:51 pm, Jeff Barnett <jbb...@ca.rr.com> wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> A few days ago we took one of our printers off the network and to a
    >>>>> repair shop. Later we noticed that one of our computers no longer
    >>>>> dropped to sleep (S3 mode). I've spent a few days trying to figure out
    >>>>> why and repair the problem. The computer owner suddenly recalled trying
    >>>>> to print something after the printer was removed from the network so the
    >>>>> print job was in the spool. The print job was deleted and the computer
    >>>>> went to sleep! I'm sending this note for two reasons:
    >>>>>
    >>>>> 1) In case someone else out there is tracking down a sleep problem -
    >>>>> It's tricky since the printer icon can disappear from the task bar
    >>>>> removing hints about the source of the problem
    >>>>>
    >>>>> 2) To ask a question based on my memory: MEMORY = (I think that MS
    >>>>> required software to work and play well with sleep modes in order to be
    >>>>> XP certified.) QUESTION = (If memory is correct wouldn't the XP spooler
    >>>>> fail to be XP certified if someone other than MS wrote it?)
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Tongue firmly in cheek on 2 above.
    >>>>> --
    >>>>> Jeff Barnett
    >>>>>
    >>>> Do you mean Stand By mode (or Hibernate)?
    >>>>
    >>>> Why don't you try it again and see.
    >>>>
    >>>> I unhooked my wireless printer and printed a file. It ended up where
    >>>> all good print jobs go:
    >>>>
    >>>> C:/Windows\system32\spool\PRINTERS
    >>>>
    >>>> As a matter of fact, I printed several things using various programs.
    >>>>
    >>>> I adjusted my Power Options System standby setting (I could not find
    >>>> any sleep option) from Never to 2 minutes, OK'd my way out, double
    >>>> clicked the clock so I could watch the time and in 2 minutes, the
    >>>> system entered Stand By.
    >>>>
    >>>> I already know Hibernate works when there are pending jobs in the
    >>>> spool folder since I choose to use Hibernate instead of Stand By.
    >>>>
    >>>> I did not get any print icon either so there was nothing to disappear
    >>>> since it never appeared.
    >>>>
    >>>> I clicked the mouse to bring the system around, plugged my printer
    >>>> back in, and was shortly presented a print preview of my document
    >>>> since that is how I have my system set up (print preview) and the
    >>>> printer icon showed up until all my print jobs were dispatched. The
    >>>> files printed fine.
    >>>>
    >>>> I'm not saying you don't have a problem, but if you can try it and
    >>>> verify that would be good information to know.
    >>>>
    >>>> I cannot recreate any situation where a pending print job inhibits
    >>>> Stand By or Hibernate. If you can think of another way for me to test
    >>>> it, I will do it.
    >>>>
    >>> I also just tried it with a USB wired printer and it works the same
    >>> way as my wireless printer - as expected. I wouldn't think MS would
    >>> care how the printer was connected and apparently is doesn't in my
    >>> situation.
    >>>

    >> As I stated in my original message, the sleep/suspend mode was S3;
    >> hibernate is S4. S3 is also called suspend to RAM. As I understand MS
    >> rules for initiating S2/S3/S4, the CPU cannot be more than x% busy for a
    >> user specified period or no state transfer will occur. (Of course you
    >> can give one of the various suspend/hibernate now commands and it will
    >> force transition.) So in part the ability to sleep will depend on the
    >> relative sizes of x%, the user-specified period, the spooler
    >> time-between-checks, the amount of resources necessary to poll the
    >> printer, and several other things. What I managed to discover was that a
    >> printer missing/not responding state can block state transition. The
    >> only time you probably would care about this tidbit of trivia is if your
    >> computer was failing to enter sleep automatically.
    >> --
    >> Jeff Barnett
    >>

    >
    > Relative sizes, unspecified period - X%, spooler time-between-checks
    > (what is the spooler time between checks), several other things...
    > doesn't sound like very good science since none of the variables
    > mentioned include a method to tie a specific value to one of the
    > terms. What are the several other things.
    >
    > Where are you getting these MS rules for initiating S2/S3/S4?
    >
    > What method was used to discover that a printer missing/not responding
    > state can block state transition and how would I recreate that state?
    > I just want to experience it since I hardly ever have my printer on
    > and have never had a problem with Hibernating that was not self
    > induced.
    >
    > I just don't see how a disconnected network or other printer will keep
    > a system from entering Stand By or Hibernate after the specified
    > period, assuming it was working before.
    >
    > If there is a way for merely a disconnected printer to keep my system
    > from entering Stand By or Hibernate, I would like to know what it is.
    > I want to somehow tie the inability to enter Stand By to a
    > disconnected printe
    >


    The spool software periodically, when jobs are pending, checks whether
    another job can be initiated. That check uses the CPU, the network if
    printers are (supposed to be) on the network, and other port drivers if
    printers are (supposed to be) on other ports. The the X in X%, I think,
    is around 10. Consider one computer with a 1GHz CPU and another with a
    3GHz CPU. Though both will take ROUGHLY the same number of cycles to
    execute spooler functions, the faster CPU will take ROUGHLY only one
    third the amount of time. The X% is measured as time, not cycles. Of
    course there are lots of other periodic and aperiodic tasks performed by
    the OS and some of your installed applications. It also seems that some
    applications and parts of XP (according to legend) do busy waits on
    network and port pokes (poke = data movement or status inquiry). A busy
    wait, of course, burns 100% of one CPU core or hyper thread or CPU
    depending on architecture. Any of these things as well as others that go
    on for more than 10-100 milliseconds can an do reset the
    time-to-go-to-sleep counter.

    If you want to do an experiment, try the following: In the power
    management tab set hard disks off, monitor off, and time to suspend to,
    say, 15 minutes. You probably should do this for the administrator
    account and your limited user account both. (Note that it is unclear
    when, and if, you are at the welcome screen which user's power
    management profile is used. I tried to get explicit XP information about
    that a year or two ago and at that time none of the MVPs in this
    newsgroup seemed to know.) Now take a network printer and take it off
    the network. Next, spool a job to that printer.Finally see when and if
    your computer goes to sleep. I predict that it will power down the
    monitor but will not suspend. Whether you are suspended or not is easy
    to tell in S3 because the fans will stop. In S1 they usually continue
    spinning making it hard to tell externally what state you are in.

    As to the definition of computer states, I suggest that you find a copy
    of the ACPI spec, That document, coauthored by Microsoft, Intel,
    Toshiba, and one or two other corporations, defines plug and play
    standards as well as power management standards. The spec is free for
    download and is several hundred pages long. For the most part, it is
    readable by software as well as hardware professionals. If you or anyone
    else reading this message is deeply interested in how modern computer
    components work so well together and what can and does go on in the
    hardware abstraction layer of operating systems, this document is
    fascinating. Many of you will be genuinely surprised at the amount of
    terminology and ideas that are encapsulated in the document that belong
    to the world and not a single manufacturer.
    --
    Jeff Barnett
     
  9. MRCS

    MRCS Flightless Bird

    Struggled with this problem for days, and it never would have occurred to me it was a print problem if I hadn't stumbled across it thru System Information.
    In my case there was no CPU activity. What may have been the glitch was that I changed the default printer after the incomplete pending print job, not knowing I had one.



    Jeff Barnett wrote:

    Jose wrote:As I stated in my original message, the sleep/suspend mode was
    04-Feb-10

    Jose wrote:
    As I stated in my original message, the sleep/suspend mode was S3;
    hibernate is S4. S3 is also called suspend to RAM. As I understand MS
    rules for initiating S2/S3/S4, the CPU cannot be more than x% busy for a
    user specified period or no state transfer will occur. (Of course you
    can give one of the various suspend/hibernate now commands and it will
    force transition.) So in part the ability to sleep will depend on the
    relative sizes of x%, the user-specified period, the spooler
    time-between-checks, the amount of resources necessary to poll the
    printer, and several other things. What I managed to discover was that a
    printer missing/not responding state can block state transition. The
    only time you probably would care about this tidbit of trivia is if your
    computer was failing to enter sleep automatically.
    --
    Jeff Barnett

    Previous Posts In This Thread:

    On Thursday, February 04, 2010 3:51 PM
    Jeff Barnett wrote:

    Print Spooling vs suspend
    A few days ago we took one of our printers off the network and to a
    repair shop. Later we noticed that one of our computers no longer
    dropped to sleep (S3 mode). I have spent a few days trying to figure out
    why and repair the problem. The computer owner suddenly recalled trying
    to print something after the printer was removed from the network so the
    print job was in the spool. The print job was deleted and the computer
    went to sleep! I am sending this note for two reasons:

    1) In case someone else out there is tracking down a sleep problem -
    it is tricky since the printer icon can disappear from the task bar
    removing hints about the source of the problem

    2) To ask a question based on my memory: MEMORY = (I think that MS
    required software to work and play well with sleep modes in order to be
    XP certified.) QUESTION = (If memory is correct would not the XP spooler
    fail to be XP certified if someone other than MS wrote it?)

    Tongue firmly in cheek on 2 above.
    --
    Jeff Barnett

    On Thursday, February 04, 2010 4:10 PM
    Pegasus [MVP] wrote:

    I suspect that it is by design that pending print requests should prevent aPC
    I suspect that it is by design that pending print requests should prevent a
    PC from going into a sleep state. It is likely that many printers are unable
    to cope with an extended interruption in the flow of print data. What would
    you say if you had a network printer that refused to accept any more print
    jobs because the PC that has just sent half of a print job has been put to
    sleep? You would probably slam Microsoft for not having thought this through
    properly.

    I think you can take your tongue out of your cheek.

    On Thursday, February 04, 2010 4:24 PM
    Jeff Barnett wrote:

    Pegasus [MVP] wrote:Note that the job had never reached the printer because it
    Pegasus [MVP] wrote:
    Note that the job had never reached the printer because it was OFF the
    network (and at the repair shop). Therefore, the spooler kept trying to
    send the job and not even a byte (or a packet depending on how the net
    error was reported) of the print stream arrived. The point is that after
    N tries, where N was certainly not a small number after two days, there
    is reason to believe that 1) the time between tries should have been
    backed off and/or 2) a mechanism should have been used that did not
    disturb the count-down-to-sleep timer. I am still of the opinion, given
    that my memory is correct, that MS would not have certified this
    behavior for another organization. And my tongue is still in my cheek.
    --
    Jeff Barnett

    On Thursday, February 04, 2010 6:59 PM
    Jose wrote:

    Do you mean Stand By mode (or Hibernate)?
    Do you mean Stand By mode (or Hibernate)?

    Why do not you try it again and see.

    I unhooked my wireless printer and printed a file. It ended up where
    all good print jobs go:

    C:/Windows\system32\spool\PRINTERS

    As a matter of fact, I printed several things using various programs.

    I adjusted my Power Options System standby setting (I could not find
    any sleep option) from Never to 2 minutes, OK'd my way out, double
    clicked the clock so I could watch the time and in 2 minutes, the
    system entered Stand By.

    I already know Hibernate works when there are pending jobs in the
    spool folder since I choose to use Hibernate instead of Stand By.

    I did not get any print icon either so there was nothing to disappear
    since it never appeared.

    I clicked the mouse to bring the system around, plugged my printer
    back in, and was shortly presented a print preview of my document
    since that is how I have my system set up (print preview) and the
    printer icon showed up until all my print jobs were dispatched. The
    files printed fine.

    I am not saying you do not have a problem, but if you can try it and
    verify that would be good information to know.

    I cannot recreate any situation where a pending print job inhibits
    Stand By or Hibernate. If you can think of another way for me to test
    it, I will do it.

    On Thursday, February 04, 2010 7:02 PM
    Jose wrote:

    eerI also just tried it with a USB wired printer and it works the sameway as
    e
    er

    I also just tried it with a USB wired printer and it works the same
    way as my wireless printer - as expected. I would not think MS would
    care how the printer was connected and apparently is does not in my
    situation.

    On Thursday, February 04, 2010 10:39 PM
    Jeff Barnett wrote:

    Jose wrote:As I stated in my original message, the sleep/suspend mode was
    Jose wrote:
    As I stated in my original message, the sleep/suspend mode was S3;
    hibernate is S4. S3 is also called suspend to RAM. As I understand MS
    rules for initiating S2/S3/S4, the CPU cannot be more than x% busy for a
    user specified period or no state transfer will occur. (Of course you
    can give one of the various suspend/hibernate now commands and it will
    force transition.) So in part the ability to sleep will depend on the
    relative sizes of x%, the user-specified period, the spooler
    time-between-checks, the amount of resources necessary to poll the
    printer, and several other things. What I managed to discover was that a
    printer missing/not responding state can block state transition. The
    only time you probably would care about this tidbit of trivia is if your
    computer was failing to enter sleep automatically.
    --
    Jeff Barnett

    On Friday, February 05, 2010 7:15 AM
    Jose wrote:

    tngtherbeolerestRelative sizes, unspecified period - X%, spooler
    t
    ng
    the
    r
    be
    oler
    e
    st

    Relative sizes, unspecified period - X%, spooler time-between-checks
    (what is the spooler time between checks), several other things...
    does not sound like very good science since none of the variables
    mentioned include a method to tie a specific value to one of the
    terms. What are the several other things.

    Where are you getting these MS rules for initiating S2/S3/S4?

    What method was used to discover that a printer missing/not responding
    state can block state transition and how would I recreate that state?

    On Friday, February 05, 2010 1:45 PM
    Jeff Barnett wrote:

    Jose wrote:
    Jose wrote:


    Submitted via EggHeadCafe - Software Developer Portal of Choice
    Producer/Consumer Queue and BlockingCollection in C# 4.0
    http://www.eggheadcafe.com/tutorial...mer-queue-and-blockingcollection-in-c-40.aspx
     

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