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Partitioning a Thinkpad T30

D

dwn

Flightless Bird
I have two problems and need suggestions and help.

First, my used T30, I tried to repartition it using Partition Magic.
PM unable to read the "C" drive and it quit. Using PM again I was
able to see the WinXP Pro and the hidden Recovery sectors. Is
there a way to repartition the 40GB to "C" -30GB and "D" -10GB?

Second problems, I tried recovery by holding the F1 key during startup
and it show missing "NTLDR". Using another laptop, I replaced the
missing file to a latest "NTLDR", to i386 folder. Still no good. I believe
the missing or corrupted "NTLDR" is in the hidden sector.

The Thinkpad is running very slow, need to cleanup to Factory condition
and at the same time repartition the drive. Thanks for your help.
 
B

BillW50

Flightless Bird
In news:hp8vbk030eu@news7.newsguy.com,
dwn typed on Sat, 03 Apr 2010 20:00:04 -0700:
> I have two problems and need suggestions and help.
>
> First, my used T30, I tried to repartition it using Partition Magic.
> PM unable to read the "C" drive and it quit. Using PM again I was
> able to see the WinXP Pro and the hidden Recovery sectors. Is
> there a way to repartition the 40GB to "C" -30GB and "D" -10GB?
>
> Second problems, I tried recovery by holding the F1 key during startup
> and it show missing "NTLDR". Using another laptop, I replaced the
> missing file to a latest "NTLDR", to i386 folder. Still no good. I
> believe the missing or corrupted "NTLDR" is in the hidden sector.
>
> The Thinkpad is running very slow, need to cleanup to Factory
> condition and at the same time repartition the drive. Thanks for your
> help.

First of all, Partition Magic hasn't been updated in many years. And I
wouldn't trust it on any system say 8 years or newer. Both Paragon and
EASEUS offer free partitioning software which would be much better to
use.

Secondly, when Windows XP reports NTLDR is missing. that isn't actually
what that error means per se. As it could be there, but on another
partition or something and Windows can't find it. As for Windows XP to
start, it requires the following:

1) Track 0, sector 0 of the HDD must have a MBR

2) On the active primary partition (there can be only one and you can
select which one is active with partitioning software, boot managers,
FDISK, etc.)

3) The active primary partition must have the following files:

ntldr
NTDETECT.COM
Boot.ini

If one of the three files is missing, it often reports that ntldr is
missing. And Boot.ini is editable and points to the drive and partition
where Windows could be found and booted from. Microsoft OS isn't alone
here. As all PC 32-bit OS needs these loaders to load the code to switch
the processor from 16-bit mode to 32-bit mode. That is because all
standard PC BIOS starts the processor in 16-bit mode for backward
compatibility for 16-bit OS like MS-DOS. And btw, MS-DOS could and has
been used as a loader as well. Such as it was in Windows 3.1, W9x, and
ME.

So when you take a functioning XP system and mess around and change the
active partition, delete the recovery partition, or boot partition, you
end up with boot problems and NTLDR errors. But with the right software
tools, this can be easily fixed. So you need those three files on the
active primary partition and not just on any primary partition. You
could have these files on all primary partitions if you wanted to, then
it wouldn't matter which one was set as active. As the results would be
the same anyway.

So that is all to it. The only other tricky part is editing the Boot.ini
file to the right drive and partition Windows is installed on. And that
isn't really hard at all. And there are software utilities out there
that will create Boot.ini from scratch. There is even one on the Windows
XP install disc.

If you have any other questions, just ask.

--
Bill
Gateway MX6124 ('06 era) 1 of 3 - Windows XP SP2
 
B

Barry Watzman

Flightless Bird
Partition Magic 8 is fine for systems running Windows XP.


BillW50 wrote:
> In news:hp8vbk030eu@news7.newsguy.com,
> dwn typed on Sat, 03 Apr 2010 20:00:04 -0700:
>> I have two problems and need suggestions and help.
>>
>> First, my used T30, I tried to repartition it using Partition Magic.
>> PM unable to read the "C" drive and it quit. Using PM again I was
>> able to see the WinXP Pro and the hidden Recovery sectors. Is
>> there a way to repartition the 40GB to "C" -30GB and "D" -10GB?
>>
>> Second problems, I tried recovery by holding the F1 key during startup
>> and it show missing "NTLDR". Using another laptop, I replaced the
>> missing file to a latest "NTLDR", to i386 folder. Still no good. I
>> believe the missing or corrupted "NTLDR" is in the hidden sector.
>>
>> The Thinkpad is running very slow, need to cleanup to Factory
>> condition and at the same time repartition the drive. Thanks for your
>> help.
>
> First of all, Partition Magic hasn't been updated in many years. And I
> wouldn't trust it on any system say 8 years or newer. Both Paragon and
> EASEUS offer free partitioning software which would be much better to
> use.
>
> Secondly, when Windows XP reports NTLDR is missing. that isn't actually
> what that error means per se. As it could be there, but on another
> partition or something and Windows can't find it. As for Windows XP to
> start, it requires the following:
>
> 1) Track 0, sector 0 of the HDD must have a MBR
>
> 2) On the active primary partition (there can be only one and you can
> select which one is active with partitioning software, boot managers,
> FDISK, etc.)
>
> 3) The active primary partition must have the following files:
>
> ntldr
> NTDETECT.COM
> Boot.ini
>
> If one of the three files is missing, it often reports that ntldr is
> missing. And Boot.ini is editable and points to the drive and partition
> where Windows could be found and booted from. Microsoft OS isn't alone
> here. As all PC 32-bit OS needs these loaders to load the code to switch
> the processor from 16-bit mode to 32-bit mode. That is because all
> standard PC BIOS starts the processor in 16-bit mode for backward
> compatibility for 16-bit OS like MS-DOS. And btw, MS-DOS could and has
> been used as a loader as well. Such as it was in Windows 3.1, W9x, and
> ME.
>
> So when you take a functioning XP system and mess around and change the
> active partition, delete the recovery partition, or boot partition, you
> end up with boot problems and NTLDR errors. But with the right software
> tools, this can be easily fixed. So you need those three files on the
> active primary partition and not just on any primary partition. You
> could have these files on all primary partitions if you wanted to, then
> it wouldn't matter which one was set as active. As the results would be
> the same anyway.
>
> So that is all to it. The only other tricky part is editing the Boot.ini
> file to the right drive and partition Windows is installed on. And that
> isn't really hard at all. And there are software utilities out there
> that will create Boot.ini from scratch. There is even one on the Windows
> XP install disc.
>
> If you have any other questions, just ask.
>
 
B

BillW50

Flightless Bird
In news:hp9vp3$m6d$2@news.eternal-september.org,
Barry Watzman typed on Sun, 04 Apr 2010 08:13:20 -0400:
> Partition Magic 8 is fine for systems running Windows XP.

I don't think this is so for newer hardware even running Windows XP. As
the newer hardware (especially controllers) and BIOS does things that
Partition Magic 8 doesn't expect and I have seen problems. Also drives
are larger nowadays and are larger than what PM8 was designed to handle.
So again, I have seen problems here too.

Also PM8 and earlier versions of PM, has lots of problems cloning a
drive to an USB external drive. As like when taking this drive and using
it as an internal drive. Say when you buy a new larger drive to replace
your older and smaller drive in a laptop. Oh it will usually work, but
once you place the drive and use internally, PM will either disallow
working with this drive and report the geometry is unknown. Or it will
work with it and really mess it up pretty badly. Meaning the partition
tables and/or files and folders will become corrupt.

--
Bill
Gateway MX6124 ('06 era) 1 of 3 - Windows XP SP2
 
D

dwn

Flightless Bird
On Sun, 4 Apr 2010 06:47:17 -0500, "BillW50" <BillW50@aol.kom> wrote:

.......Snip

>First of all, Partition Magic hasn't been updated in many years. And I
>wouldn't trust it on any system say 8 years or newer. Both Paragon and
>EASEUS offer free partitioning software which would be much better to
>use.

OK understand. I have not partition the "C" drive, only attempt to partition.
>
>Secondly, when Windows XP reports NTLDR is missing. that isn't actually
>what that error means per se. As it could be there, but on another
>partition or something and Windows can't find it. As for Windows XP to
>start, it requires the following:
>
>1) Track 0, sector 0 of the HDD must have a MBR
>
>2) On the active primary partition (there can be only one and you can
>select which one is active with partitioning software, boot managers,
>FDISK, etc.)
>
>3) The active primary partition must have the following files:
>
>ntldr
>NTDETECT.COM
>Boot.ini

Found NTDETECT.COM and ntldr in C:/windows\servicePackFiles\i386
cannot find Boot.ini anywhere, and that including my other laptop Dell D600.

>If one of the three files is missing, it often reports that ntldr is
>missing. And Boot.ini is editable and points to the drive and partition
>where Windows could be found and booted from. Microsoft OS isn't alone
>here. As all PC 32-bit OS needs these loaders to load the code to switch
>the processor from 16-bit mode to 32-bit mode. That is because all
>standard PC BIOS starts the processor in 16-bit mode for backward
>compatibility for 16-bit OS like MS-DOS. And btw, MS-DOS could and has
>been used as a loader as well. Such as it was in Windows 3.1, W9x, and
>ME.
>
>So when you take a functioning XP system and mess around and change the
>active partition, delete the recovery partition, or boot partition, you
>end up with boot problems and NTLDR errors. But with the right software
>tools, this can be easily fixed. So you need those three files on the
>active primary partition and not just on any primary partition. You
>could have these files on all primary partitions if you wanted to, then
>it wouldn't matter which one was set as active. As the results would be
>the same anyway.

>So that is all to it. The only other tricky part is editing the Boot.ini
>file to the right drive and partition Windows is installed on. And that
>isn't really hard at all. And there are software utilities out there
>that will create Boot.ini from scratch. There is even one on the Windows
>XP install disc.
>
>If you have any other questions, just ask.

The used T30 came with the drive completely wiped clean. I fried the drive
while testing it. Replaced it with a same capacity, Preinstalled Win XP PRO
with Recovery sector. I also purchased a set of Recovery CD.

Somewhere along the ways, I deleted the Preloaded Virus protection to MS
Security Essentials. I must have done something to slow the T30 to a crawling
speed. I decided, it's time to clean install it to factory condition and add a
10Gb partition "D" drive after clean installation. I have done countless
formatting and clean installation Win98SE desktop. A few times on Dell D600 XP
PRO. T30 is so much different from my past experiences. I don't have the
Recovery CD with me now and need the drive's Recovery to re-install to factory
condition.

Now, for a start where can I find the Boot.ini, could the Recovery sector
corrupted? I will start searching for the software in the web after posting
this.

Thanks a million.
 
D

dwn

Flightless Bird
On Sun, 4 Apr 2010 06:47:17 -0500, "BillW50" <BillW50@aol.kom> wrote:

>2) On the active primary partition (there can be only one and you can
>select which one is active with partitioning software, boot managers,
>FDISK, etc.)
>
>3) The active primary partition must have the following files:
>
>ntldr
>NTDETECT.COM
>Boot.ini

Sorry, found it in C:/windows.
I use "search" and could not find it.

[boot loader]
timeout=30
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Professional"
/fastdetect /noexecute=optin

What next? Thanks

>
>If one of the three files is missing, it often reports that ntldr is
>missing. And Boot.ini is editable and points to the drive and partition
>where Windows could be found and booted from. Microsoft OS isn't alone
>here. As all PC 32-bit OS needs these loaders to load the code to switch
>the processor from 16-bit mode to 32-bit mode. That is because all
>standard PC BIOS starts the processor in 16-bit mode for backward
>compatibility for 16-bit OS like MS-DOS. And btw, MS-DOS could and has
>been used as a loader as well. Such as it was in Windows 3.1, W9x, and
>ME.
>
>So when you take a functioning XP system and mess around and change the
>active partition, delete the recovery partition, or boot partition, you
>end up with boot problems and NTLDR errors. But with the right software
>tools, this can be easily fixed. So you need those three files on the
>active primary partition and not just on any primary partition. You
>could have these files on all primary partitions if you wanted to, then
>it wouldn't matter which one was set as active. As the results would be
>the same anyway.
>
>So that is all to it. The only other tricky part is editing the Boot.ini
>file to the right drive and partition Windows is installed on. And that
>isn't really hard at all. And there are software utilities out there
>that will create Boot.ini from scratch. There is even one on the Windows
>XP install disc.
>
>If you have any other questions, just ask.
 
J

John Doue

Flightless Bird
On 4/4/2010 3:13 PM, Barry Watzman wrote:
> Partition Magic 8 is fine for systems running Windows XP.
>
>


Barry,

Having used PM for a long time with Windows XP, I have to qualify your
statement.

First and most important,if PM make tell you that your drive has serious
errors (and sometimes, offers to correct them): NEVER NEVER accept. Try
the same drive with, say, Acronis Disk Director. If Disk Director works
all right on your drive, forget the warning from PQ Magic and do not use
it, use Disk Director.

Second, on fairly large drives IDE (considering PM age), say over 250G
conservatively, use caution. For instance, do not attempt to create a
partition at the right of the disk as PM sees it, while leaving a large
empty space before the partition you want to create. Chances are PM will
mess the operation. In that case, be wise: create it next the rightmost
existing one, and then, if desired, move it. You will improve your
chances of success.

On SATA drives of 500G for example, absolutely refrain from attempting
the operation I described above. Too risky. Use Disk Director. Other
than that, try to do the operations you plan one at a time, and always
have a rescue plan in mind if PM fails. I am not paranoid, but with
this type of drive, PM is really out of its design envelope.

With this in mind, whenever I can, I still use PM which I find to have
the best, by find, UI, even if competitors have tried to mimic it.

A word of warning about Paragon: I recently tried a very recent version,
and IIRC, tried to do a simple copy operation, something PM and Disk
Director would have easily done. This version I tried totally messed up
my system. Fortunately, I had a fallback solution and restored my disk
fairly easily. My advice: older versions (2009 and 8.5) were ok, newer
.... try with care).

-
John Doue
 
B

BillW50

Flightless Bird
> On Sun, 4 Apr 2010 06:47:17 -0500, "BillW50" <BillW50@aol.kom> wrote:
>
>> 2) On the active primary partition (there can be only one and you can
>> select which one is active with partitioning software, boot managers,
>> FDISK, etc.)
>>
>> 3) The active primary partition must have the following files:
>>
>> ntldr
>> NTDETECT.COM
>> Boot.ini
>
> Sorry, found it in C:/windows.
> I use "search" and could not find it.
>
> [boot loader]
> timeout=30
> default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
> [operating systems]
> multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP
> Professional" /fastdetect /noexecute=optin
>
> What next? Thanks

Those three files needs to be in the root directory (aka folder). They
won't do anything if they are in say the Windows folder or any other
folder. You can keep copies of them in the Windows folder if you would
like. As they won't hurt anything.

That last line in the Boot.ini file which reads:

multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS=...

It should work as is, but if it doesn't work, change that partition(1)
to partition(2) and try again. It depends on whether there is another
partition ahead of it or not. Like a recovery partition or a secret
hidden partition. And you can't go by drive letters, as Windows XP drive
letters doesn't have to match the partition sequence order. But a
partitioning program should see them in the right order.

I am not sure what you did or what happened to the recovery partition.
But if it isn't corrupt, everything can be easily fixed again. Right now
this should get Windows bootable again. Might need to set the Windows
partition as active though with FDISK, a partitioning utility, or
something else though first before it will boot.

To get the recovery partition to work again if it isn't corrupt, is
sometimes necessary to make the recovery partition set as active instead
of the Windows partition. And you should be all set.

--
Bill
Gateway MX6124 ('06 era) 1 of 3 - Windows XP SP2
 
D

dwn

Flightless Bird
On Sun, 4 Apr 2010 11:23:08 -0500, "BillW50" <BillW50@aol.kom> wrote:

Maybe we are in the wrong frequency here. My T30 run, but at crawling speed.
I would like to recover to original factory condition. Using the hidden recovery
program by depressing F11 during startup. Instead of invoking the IBM recovery
program, It quit in black screen with the following words..

NTLDR is missing
Press Ctrl+Alt+Del to restart

How do I invoke IBM recovery program? I don't have the IBM Recovery CD
with me now. I would like to do it this way as I am out of the States. It will
take week to get it here.

more below....

>Those three files needs to be in the root directory (aka folder). They
>won't do anything if they are in say the Windows folder or any other
>folder. You can keep copies of them in the Windows folder if you would
>like. As they won't hurt anything.
>
>That last line in the Boot.ini file which reads:
>
>multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS=...
>
>It should work as is, but if it doesn't work, change that partition(1)
>to partition(2) and try again. It depends on whether there is another
>partition ahead of it or not. Like a recovery partition or a secret
>hidden partition. And you can't go by drive letters, as Windows XP drive
>letters doesn't have to match the partition sequence order. But a
>partitioning program should see them in the right order.
>
>I am not sure what you did or what happened to the recovery partition.
>But if it isn't corrupt, everything can be easily fixed again. Right now
>this should get Windows bootable again. Might need to set the Windows
>partition as active though with FDISK, a partitioning utility, or
>something else though first before it will boot.
>
>To get the recovery partition to work again if it isn't corrupt, is
>sometimes necessary to make the recovery partition set as active instead
>of the Windows partition. And you should be all set.

If the hidden recovery partition is not corrupted, how come the NTLDR is missing
or maybe all the three files missing? How do you make the hidden partition
active? Mind you this T30 is Greek to me (migrate from Win98SE few mths). How
to boot up in MSDOS? I still have bootup diskette for Win98SE. (all the
necessary Format, fdisk, edit etc.) Will it work?

Thanks again
 
B

BillW50

Flightless Bird
In news:hpahsg02k9s@news2.newsguy.com,
dwn typed on Sun, 04 Apr 2010 10:22:25 -0700:
> On Sun, 4 Apr 2010 11:23:08 -0500, "BillW50" <BillW50@aol.kom> wrote:
>
> Maybe we are in the wrong frequency here. My T30 run, but at crawling
> speed.
> I would like to recover to original factory condition. Using the
> hidden recovery program by depressing F11 during startup. Instead of
> invoking the IBM recovery program, It quit in black screen with the
> following words..
>
> NTLDR is missing
> Press Ctrl+Alt+Del to restart
>
> How do I invoke IBM recovery program? I don't have the IBM Recovery CD
> with me now. I would like to do it this way as I am out of the
> States. It will take week to get it here.
>
> more below....
>
>> Those three files needs to be in the root directory (aka folder).
>> They won't do anything if they are in say the Windows folder or any
>> other folder. You can keep copies of them in the Windows folder if
>> you would like. As they won't hurt anything.
>>
>> That last line in the Boot.ini file which reads:
>>
>> multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS=...
>>
>> It should work as is, but if it doesn't work, change that
>> partition(1) to partition(2) and try again. It depends on whether
>> there is another partition ahead of it or not. Like a recovery
>> partition or a secret hidden partition. And you can't go by drive
>> letters, as Windows XP drive letters doesn't have to match the
>> partition sequence order. But a partitioning program should see them
>> in the right order.
>>
>> I am not sure what you did or what happened to the recovery
>> partition. But if it isn't corrupt, everything can be easily fixed
>> again. Right now this should get Windows bootable again. Might need
>> to set the Windows partition as active though with FDISK, a
>> partitioning utility, or something else though first before it will
>> boot.
>>
>> To get the recovery partition to work again if it isn't corrupt, is
>> sometimes necessary to make the recovery partition set as active
>> instead of the Windows partition. And you should be all set.
>
> If the hidden recovery partition is not corrupted, how come the NTLDR
> is missing or maybe all the three files missing? How do you make the
> hidden partition active? Mind you this T30 is Greek to me (migrate
> from Win98SE few mths). How to boot up in MSDOS? I still have bootup
> diskette for Win98SE. (all the necessary Format, fdisk, edit etc.)
> Will it work?
>
> Thanks again

Okay here is what I think is going on here. I think your recovery
partition is using WinPE to load the recovery software. WinPE is a
non-hardware dependant version of Windows XP. And it is basically a
stripped down version of XP which you can do only basic tasks with. In
this case, run the recovery software.

If pressing F11 at startup works, but it states it can't find ntldr.
Then those three files needs to be on the recovery partition and not on
the Windows partition. Meaning whichever one is set as active. I have to
investigate the deal with Boot.ini on the recovery partition. As I
believe it is quite different.

If the files are already there, something else is wrong. And don't
replace them without making copies of what is there. As they could be
different versions than what is on the XP partition.

And yes, a MS-DOS disk or a Windows 9x Startup disk will work if you run
FDISK to set which partition you want to be set as active. These disks
can't see inside of NTFS formatted partitions, but that is okay. And
*most* recovery partitions are in FAT32 format. So you should be able to
peek inside with DIR or something.

If you can see into the recovery partition under XP. Then the following
might work too. Run XP in safe mode and run the recovery software (from
the recovery partition) from XP in safe mode. Which folder and file it
is I can't tell you offhand. But you maybe able to figure it out. I say
run it in XP safe mode as XP normal mode might complain about running
the recovery software. Say, now that I think about it, safe mode might
complain too. But you have a better chance under safe mode than you
would under normal mode.

So there you go, try the first part first. If that fails, try that later
trick.

--
Bill
Gateway MX6124 ('06 era) 1 of 3 - Windows XP SP2
 
D

dwn

Flightless Bird
On Sun, 4 Apr 2010 14:20:47 -0500, "BillW50" <BillW50@aol.kom> wrote:


Snip..

>Okay here is what I think is going on here. I think your recovery
>partition is using WinPE to load the recovery software. WinPE is a
>non-hardware dependant version of Windows XP. And it is basically a
>stripped down version of XP which you can do only basic tasks with. In
>this case, run the recovery software.

Noted
>
>If pressing F11 at startup works, but it states it can't find ntldr.
>Then those three files needs to be on the recovery partition and not on
>the Windows partition. Meaning whichever one is set as active. I have to
>investigate the deal with Boot.ini on the recovery partition. As I
>believe it is quite different.

Noted
>
>If the files are already there, something else is wrong. And don't
>replace them without making copies of what is there. As they could be
>different versions than what is on the XP partition.

OK
>
>And yes, a MS-DOS disk or a Windows 9x Startup disk will work if you run
>FDISK to set which partition you want to be set as active. These disks
>can't see inside of NTFS formatted partitions, but that is okay. And
>*most* recovery partitions are in FAT32 format. So you should be able to
>peek inside with DIR or something.

Checked my bags, the diskettes and external floppy drive cable not
among the wires and DVD I have here. May need to check my other
bags across town. Anyway, I remember during the Win 3.xxx days leading to
Win98SE, if the bootup diskette incorrect DOS Version, the screen will
indicate.. "Wrong Version...." Will it happen here?
>
>If you can see into the recovery partition under XP. Then the following
>might work too. Run XP in safe mode and run the recovery software (from
>the recovery partition) from XP in safe mode. Which folder and file it
>is I can't tell you offhand. But you maybe able to figure it out. I say
>run it in XP safe mode as XP normal mode might complain about running
>the recovery software. Say, now that I think about it, safe mode might
>complain too. But you have a better chance under safe mode than you
>would under normal mode.
>
>So there you go, try the first part first. If that fails, try that later
>trick.

OK, I will try safe mode first. Should it fail I will make a trip across town
and find the diskettes, maybe the set of IBM recovery CD in there too?
If it fail can we put a hold for a day or 2 and continue where we left off?

Now, don't laugh which F key should press to start in safe mode?
 
M

~misfit~

Flightless Bird
Somewhere on teh intarwebs dwn wrote:
[snip]
> Now, don't laugh which F key should press to start in safe mode?

F8 just before Windows loads.
--
Shaun.

Ticking away the moments that make up a dull day...
 
R

RnR

Flightless Bird
On Sun, 4 Apr 2010 07:44:17 -0500, "BillW50" <BillW50@aol.kom> wrote:

>In news:hp9vp3$m6d$2@news.eternal-september.org,
>Barry Watzman typed on Sun, 04 Apr 2010 08:13:20 -0400:
>> Partition Magic 8 is fine for systems running Windows XP.
>
>I don't think this is so for newer hardware even running Windows XP. As
>the newer hardware (especially controllers) and BIOS does things that
>Partition Magic 8 doesn't expect and I have seen problems. Also drives
>are larger nowadays and are larger than what PM8 was designed to handle.
>So again, I have seen problems here too.
>
>Also PM8 and earlier versions of PM, has lots of problems cloning a
>drive to an USB external drive. As like when taking this drive and using
>it as an internal drive. Say when you buy a new larger drive to replace
>your older and smaller drive in a laptop. Oh it will usually work, but
>once you place the drive and use internally, PM will either disallow
>working with this drive and report the geometry is unknown. Or it will
>work with it and really mess it up pretty badly. Meaning the partition
>tables and/or files and folders will become corrupt.


Bill, you are correct from my experience as well.
 
R

RnR

Flightless Bird
On Sun, 04 Apr 2010 19:18:42 +0300, John Doue <notwobe@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>On 4/4/2010 3:13 PM, Barry Watzman wrote:
>> Partition Magic 8 is fine for systems running Windows XP.
>>
>>
>
>
>Barry,
>
>Having used PM for a long time with Windows XP, I have to qualify your
>statement.
>
>First and most important,if PM make tell you that your drive has serious
>errors (and sometimes, offers to correct them): NEVER NEVER accept. Try
>the same drive with, say, Acronis Disk Director. If Disk Director works
>all right on your drive, forget the warning from PQ Magic and do not use
>it, use Disk Director.
>
>Second, on fairly large drives IDE (considering PM age), say over 250G
>conservatively, use caution. For instance, do not attempt to create a
>partition at the right of the disk as PM sees it, while leaving a large
>empty space before the partition you want to create. Chances are PM will
>mess the operation. In that case, be wise: create it next the rightmost
>existing one, and then, if desired, move it. You will improve your
>chances of success.
>
>On SATA drives of 500G for example, absolutely refrain from attempting
>the operation I described above. Too risky. Use Disk Director. Other
>than that, try to do the operations you plan one at a time, and always
>have a rescue plan in mind if PM fails. I am not paranoid, but with
>this type of drive, PM is really out of its design envelope.
>
>With this in mind, whenever I can, I still use PM which I find to have
>the best, by find, UI, even if competitors have tried to mimic it.
>
>A word of warning about Paragon: I recently tried a very recent version,
>and IIRC, tried to do a simple copy operation, something PM and Disk
>Director would have easily done. This version I tried totally messed up
>my system. Fortunately, I had a fallback solution and restored my disk
>fairly easily. My advice: older versions (2009 and 8.5) were ok, newer
>... try with care).
>
>-
>John Doue


Not sure about Paragon as I use DD. Never had a problem with it but I
was told it doesn't work on win 7 but I haven't confirmed this... no
need for me as my main OS is still xp.
 
R

RnR

Flightless Bird
On Sun, 04 Apr 2010 08:21:33 -0700, dwn <dwn <dwnns@nonet.net>> wrote:

>On Sun, 4 Apr 2010 06:47:17 -0500, "BillW50" <BillW50@aol.kom> wrote:
>
>......Snip
>
>>First of all, Partition Magic hasn't been updated in many years. And I
>>wouldn't trust it on any system say 8 years or newer. Both Paragon and
>>EASEUS offer free partitioning software which would be much better to
>>use.
>
>OK understand. I have not partition the "C" drive, only attempt to partition.
>>
>>Secondly, when Windows XP reports NTLDR is missing. that isn't actually
>>what that error means per se. As it could be there, but on another
>>partition or something and Windows can't find it. As for Windows XP to
>>start, it requires the following:
>>
>>1) Track 0, sector 0 of the HDD must have a MBR
>>
>>2) On the active primary partition (there can be only one and you can
>>select which one is active with partitioning software, boot managers,
>>FDISK, etc.)
>>
>>3) The active primary partition must have the following files:
>>
>>ntldr
>>NTDETECT.COM
>>Boot.ini
>
>Found NTDETECT.COM and ntldr in C:/windows\servicePackFiles\i386
>cannot find Boot.ini anywhere, and that including my other laptop Dell D600.
>
>>If one of the three files is missing, it often reports that ntldr is
>>missing. And Boot.ini is editable and points to the drive and partition
>>where Windows could be found and booted from. Microsoft OS isn't alone
>>here. As all PC 32-bit OS needs these loaders to load the code to switch
>>the processor from 16-bit mode to 32-bit mode. That is because all
>>standard PC BIOS starts the processor in 16-bit mode for backward
>>compatibility for 16-bit OS like MS-DOS. And btw, MS-DOS could and has
>>been used as a loader as well. Such as it was in Windows 3.1, W9x, and
>>ME.
>>
>>So when you take a functioning XP system and mess around and change the
>>active partition, delete the recovery partition, or boot partition, you
>>end up with boot problems and NTLDR errors. But with the right software
>>tools, this can be easily fixed. So you need those three files on the
>>active primary partition and not just on any primary partition. You
>>could have these files on all primary partitions if you wanted to, then
>>it wouldn't matter which one was set as active. As the results would be
>>the same anyway.
>
>>So that is all to it. The only other tricky part is editing the Boot.ini
>>file to the right drive and partition Windows is installed on. And that
>>isn't really hard at all. And there are software utilities out there
>>that will create Boot.ini from scratch. There is even one on the Windows
>>XP install disc.
>>
>>If you have any other questions, just ask.
>
>The used T30 came with the drive completely wiped clean. I fried the drive
>while testing it. Replaced it with a same capacity, Preinstalled Win XP PRO
>with Recovery sector. I also purchased a set of Recovery CD.
>
>Somewhere along the ways, I deleted the Preloaded Virus protection to MS
>Security Essentials. I must have done something to slow the T30 to a crawling
>speed. I decided, it's time to clean install it to factory condition and add a
>10Gb partition "D" drive after clean installation. I have done countless
>formatting and clean installation Win98SE desktop. A few times on Dell D600 XP
>PRO. T30 is so much different from my past experiences. I don't have the
>Recovery CD with me now and need the drive's Recovery to re-install to factory
>condition.
>
>Now, for a start where can I find the Boot.ini, could the Recovery sector
>corrupted? I will start searching for the software in the web after posting
>this.
>
>Thanks a million.
>
>


Would it be easier to start afresh again rather than to diagnose this
problem?
 
B

BillW50

Flightless Bird
In news:hpbl6k02avl@news5.newsguy.com,
dwn typed on Sun, 04 Apr 2010 20:25:04 -0700:
> On Sun, 4 Apr 2010 14:20:47 -0500, "BillW50" <BillW50@aol.kom> wrote:
>
>
> Snip..
>
>> Okay here is what I think is going on here. I think your recovery
>> partition is using WinPE to load the recovery software. WinPE is a
>> non-hardware dependant version of Windows XP. And it is basically a
>> stripped down version of XP which you can do only basic tasks with.
>> In this case, run the recovery software.
>
> Noted
>>
>> If pressing F11 at startup works, but it states it can't find ntldr.
>> Then those three files needs to be on the recovery partition and not
>> on the Windows partition. Meaning whichever one is set as active. I
>> have to investigate the deal with Boot.ini on the recovery
>> partition. As I believe it is quite different.
>
> Noted
>>
>> If the files are already there, something else is wrong. And don't
>> replace them without making copies of what is there. As they could be
>> different versions than what is on the XP partition.
>
> OK
>>
>> And yes, a MS-DOS disk or a Windows 9x Startup disk will work if you
>> run FDISK to set which partition you want to be set as active. These
>> disks can't see inside of NTFS formatted partitions, but that is
>> okay. And *most* recovery partitions are in FAT32 format. So you
>> should be able to peek inside with DIR or something.
>
> Checked my bags, the diskettes and external floppy drive cable not
> among the wires and DVD I have here. May need to check my other
> bags across town. Anyway, I remember during the Win 3.xxx days
> leading to Win98SE, if the bootup diskette incorrect DOS Version, the
> screen will indicate.. "Wrong Version...." Will it happen here?

Yes it will happen here too. As there is very little you can run on the
hard drive with a Windows 9x Startup Disk. Remember though, the only
reason is to run FDISK from the startup disk. So you can toggle which
partition is active. And to copy the three needed files on the recovery
partition (if needed).

You don't need the startup disk to set the active partition if you have
a partition manager (on a floppy, CD, or a flash drive) that can do the
very same. Windows XP I believe can also set the active partition too,
through diskmgmt.msc. But if you change it through diskmgmt.msc and you
can't boot, then you need to have something else to toggle it back to
the other partition as active.

On your Windows XP partition, you may have an i386 folder inside of the
Windows folder. If so, that Startup disk can run the Windows install by
running Winnt.exe. But it can only do so if the partition is formatted
in FAT, as DOS can't see anything in a NTFS partition. Now Winnt32.exe
does the same, but can only be ran from Windows XP, WinPE, or even
BartPE (you can make your own BartPE).

You might have an i386 folder on the recovery partition too. You can
think of an i386 folder as the Windows XP install disc.

>> If you can see into the recovery partition under XP. Then the
>> following might work too. Run XP in safe mode and run the recovery
>> software (from the recovery partition) from XP in safe mode. Which
>> folder and file it is I can't tell you offhand. But you maybe able
>> to figure it out. I say run it in XP safe mode as XP normal mode
>> might complain about running the recovery software. Say, now that I
>> think about it, safe mode might complain too. But you have a better
>> chance under safe mode than you would under normal mode.
>>
>> So there you go, try the first part first. If that fails, try that
>> later trick.
>
> OK, I will try safe mode first. Should it fail I will make a trip
> across town and find the diskettes, maybe the set of IBM recovery CD
> in there too?
> If it fail can we put a hold for a day or 2 and continue where we
> left off?

I haven't heard anything, so how is it going?

> Now, don't laugh which F key should press to start in safe mode?

As Shaun pointed out, it is the F8 key.

--
Bill
Gateway MX6124 ('06 era) 1 of 3 - Windows XP SP2
 
D

dwn

Flightless Bird
On Tue, 6 Apr 2010 21:56:38 +1200, "~misfit~" <sore_n_happy@nospamyahoo.com.au>
wrote:

Thanks, found out later in another NG where I posted. You really need to keep
pressing it F8 and after a few tries. BTW in Safe Mode I cannot do anything to
fix my present problem. I make another mistake, I thought I could get into Dot
Prompt to find and edit the hidden partition. NO! it's not Dot Prompt, it's
"Command Dot Prompt" and very slow.

Hey, I still remember you, you helped me with the wireless stuff, which I put on
hold. I am using wireless modem and it so SLOW (slower than Dialup 56K) as the
only available ISP in this location for the time. Thanks again.

>Somewhere on teh intarwebs dwn wrote:
>[snip]
>> Now, don't laugh which F key should press to start in safe mode?
>
>F8 just before Windows loads.
 
D

dwn

Flightless Bird
On Tue, 6 Apr 2010 21:56:38 +1200, "~misfit~" <sore_n_happy@nospamyahoo.com.au>
wrote:

Thanks, found out later in another NG where I posted. You really need to keep
pressing it F8 and after a few tries. BTW in Safe Mode I cannot do anything to
fix my present problem. I make another mistake, I thought I could get into Dot
Prompt to find and edit the hidden partition. NO! it's not Dot Prompt, it's
"Command Dot Prompt" and very slow.

Hey, I still remember you, you helped me with the wireless stuff, which I put on
hold. I am using wireless modem and it so SLOW (slower than Dialup 56K) as the
only available ISP in this location for the time. Thanks again.

>Somewhere on teh intarwebs dwn wrote:
>[snip]
>> Now, don't laugh which F key should press to start in safe mode?
>
>F8 just before Windows loads.
 
D

dwn

Flightless Bird
On Wed, 7 Apr 2010 07:27:20 -0500, "BillW50" <BillW50@aol.kom> wrote:

Glad you are back. This what did the last few days. Got my diskettes.
I have a few pre-prepared diskettes for Dell and Thinkpad, but my
recovery CD not among the stuff I needed most.

>> Checked my bags, the diskettes and external floppy drive cable not
>> among the wires and DVD I have here. May need to check my other
>> bags across town. Anyway, I remember during the Win 3.xxx days
>> leading to Win98SE, if the bootup diskette incorrect DOS Version, the
>> screen will indicate.. "Wrong Version...." Will it happen here?
>
>Yes it will happen here too. As there is very little you can run on the
>hard drive with a Windows 9x Startup Disk. Remember though, the only
>reason is to run FDISK from the startup disk. So you can toggle which
>partition is active. And to copy the three needed files on the recovery
>partition (if needed).

I manage to get into Dot Prompt, but really cannot do too much. I boot from my
external floppy drive testing all my diskettes. One or two "Wrong Version."
I managed to boot on one with Win98SE "boot disk". I tried to change directoey
"C", unable to do it. Something wrong, I presumed NTFS something ???.

In safe mode, "Command Dot Prompt", I go into "C" drive I managed to find the
hidden partition (In long alpha numerical name) and very slowly, line by line I
search for the three files. All except boot.ini is there (maybe there missed it
I suppose). It took me more than two hours to reach to the bottom file/folders.
I did not restart and check the boot.ini. Too tired!

I did not use "fisdk" to make the hidden partition active as i unable to see
or access "C" drive. Since I have not use MS DOS for many years and I am
rusty in some MS DOS command I stopped.

>
>You don't need the startup disk to set the active partition if you have
>a partition manager (on a floppy, CD, or a flash drive) that can do the
>very same. Windows XP I believe can also set the active partition too,
>through diskmgmt.msc. But if you change it through diskmgmt.msc and you
>can't boot, then you need to have something else to toggle it back to
>the other partition as active.

Where can I find diskmgmt.msc?
>
>On your Windows XP partition, you may have an i386 folder inside of the
>Windows folder. If so, that Startup disk can run the Windows install by

Yes, I saw i386 folder when I was looking for the three files.

>running Winnt.exe. But it can only do so if the partition is formatted
>in FAT, as DOS can't see anything in a NTFS partition. Now Winnt32.exe
>does the same, but can only be ran from Windows XP, WinPE, or even
>BartPE (you can make your own BartPE).

I am not sure if the partition is in FAT or NTFS. Your last few lines, I am
lost? Sound Greek to me.
>
>You might have an i386 folder on the recovery partition too. You can
>think of an i386 folder as the Windows XP install disc.

It's there I remembered, when I searched line by line.

>I haven't heard anything, so how is it going?

I stopped at "fisdk" I will proceed now.

We are in different time zone. I will come back, if I encounter any problems or
question.

Thanks, really appreciate it. I am also have ISP problems, using wireless modem.
>
>> Now, don't laugh which F key should press to start in safe mode?
>
>As Shaun pointed out, it is the F8 key.
 
D

dwn

Flightless Bird
On Wed, 7 Apr 2010 07:27:20 -0500, "BillW50" <BillW50@aol.kom> wrote:

>>> And yes, a MS-DOS disk or a Windows 9x Startup disk will work if you
>>> run FDISK to set which partition you want to be set as active. These
>>> disks can't see inside of NTFS formatted partitions, but that is
>>> okay. And *most* recovery partitions are in FAT32 format. So you
>>> should be able to peek inside with DIR or something.

BTW, my HD is Hitachi 50Gb.

1st try

Bootup Win98SE.
fdisk

1 A non Dos 2330 4%
2 NTFS 54906 96%

Set 1 to A (active) check "C" Not ready reading drive C
Abort, retry, fail?

Boot up black screen nothing happen, except a "-" one screen.
------------------------------------------------

2nd try

Bootup Win98SE
fdisk

1 non Dos 2330 4%
2 A NTFS 54906 96%
fdisk

Set 2 drive to A (active) check "C" Not ready reading drive C
Abort, retry, fail?

Restart both times: 1st and 2nd. 1st try drive 1 make active window will not
start. Only 2st try with drive 2 set active, window will start.

>Yes it will happen here too. As there is very little you can run on the
>hard drive with a Windows 9x Startup Disk. Remember though, the only
>reason is to run FDISK from the startup disk. So you can toggle which
>partition is active. And to copy the three needed files on the recovery
>partition (if needed).

Somehow, the hidden partition is in the drive and cannot be access
using Win98SE diskette.

This is what I found out earlier. When I use Command Dot Prompt to check
the hidden partition, I have to depressed the "Administrative" button to access
the hidden partition (I dunno if I could add/edit this partition). If I depress
my user button, "access denial".

I will keep trying and in the meantime I'll get the recovery cd back.

Thinking back the hidden partition may have been corrupted after I installed the
new hardrive. On startup the three options on the lower left corner of the
screen, "F11 Recovery" is missing. I found a patched somewhere in IBM's website
and patched.

F1 Bio Utility setup
F11 Recovery
F12 Boot selection

What options do I have, beside get the 3 recovery CD?

Thanks.
>
>You don't need the startup disk to set the active partition if you have
>a partition manager (on a floppy, CD, or a flash drive) that can do the
>very same. Windows XP I believe can also set the active partition too,
>through diskmgmt.msc. But if you change it through diskmgmt.msc and you
>can't boot, then you need to have something else to toggle it back to
>the other partition as active.
>
>On your Windows XP partition, you may have an i386 folder inside of the
>Windows folder. If so, that Startup disk can run the Windows install by
>running Winnt.exe. But it can only do so if the partition is formatted
>in FAT, as DOS can't see anything in a NTFS partition. Now Winnt32.exe
>does the same, but can only be ran from Windows XP, WinPE, or even
>BartPE (you can make your own BartPE).
>
>You might have an i386 folder on the recovery partition too. You can
>think of an i386 folder as the Windows XP install disc.
>
>>> If you can see into the recovery partition under XP. Then the
>>> following might work too. Run XP in safe mode and run the recovery
>>> software (from the recovery partition) from XP in safe mode. Which
>>> folder and file it is I can't tell you offhand. But you maybe able
>>> to figure it out. I say run it in XP safe mode as XP normal mode
>>> might complain about running the recovery software. Say, now that I
>>> think about it, safe mode might complain too. But you have a better
>>> chance under safe mode than you would under normal mode.
>>>
>>> So there you go, try the first part first. If that fails, try that
>>> later trick.
>>
>> OK, I will try safe mode first. Should it fail I will make a trip
>> across town and find the diskettes, maybe the set of IBM recovery CD
>> in there too?
>> If it fail can we put a hold for a day or 2 and continue where we
>> left off?
>
>I haven't heard anything, so how is it going?
>
>> Now, don't laugh which F key should press to start in safe mode?
>
>As Shaun pointed out, it is the F8 key.
 
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