OT: Reliable Medium For Long Term Backup And Archiving

[Bill in Co.]

Re: Reliable Medium For Long Term Backup And Archiving

Oh yeah. The good ole, ad hom used as a last resort, trick.

Russ SBITS.Biz [SBS-MVP] wrote:
> Bill He's Resorting to Insults
> Just let him go...
>
>
> --
> Russell Grover - SBITS.Biz [SBS-MVP]
> Microsoft Gold Certified Partner
> Microsoft Certified Small Business Specialist
> World Wide 24hr SBS Remote Support - http://www.SBITS.Biz
> Microsoft Online Services - http://www.microsoft-online-services.com
>
>
> "thanatoid" <waiting@the.exit.invalid> wrote in message
> news:Xns9CFC60A18C507thanexit@188.40.43.245...
>> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in
>> news:#cukKObkKHA.1656@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl:
>>
>>> thanatoid wrote:
>>>> "Russ SBITS.Biz [SBS-MVP]" <russ@REMOVETHIS.sbits.biz>
>>>> wrote in news:#e0EN9ZkKHA.1536@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl:
>>>>
>>>> <SNIP>
>>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>>
>>>> I'll just say that based on empirical evidence,
>>>
>>> Documented (peer reviewed) cites, please?
>>
>> Read the complete sentence before asking stupid questions. (At
>> least you're not a top-poster.)
>>
>>>> the only thing
>>>> that outlasts properly stored magnetic tape is paper -
>>>> disc burning /or/ HD technology has not been around long
>>>> enough -
>>>
>>> Documented cites??? This is an unsubstantiated claim.
>>
>> Oh, so you have 100 year-old CD-R's that play better than a book
>> printed 100 years ago "reads"?
>>
>>> Actually, hard drives make a good backup, especially if
>>> they are external drives which are only used as needed.
>>> They are both FAST and have HUGE storage capabilities,
>>> unlike most any other backup media. CD's and DVDs are too
>>> limited in capacity, and tapes take forever. And what
>>> makes you think magnetic tapes last longer than magnetic
>>> disks? How many old reel to reel magnetic audio tapes
>>> from the late 1940's do you have *that are still in good
>>> condition*? (rhetorical)
>>
>> I don't but many people involved in archiving the past do. They
>> ARE putting them into digital formats but they are not throwing
>> the originals out. Ever been to a museum?
>>
>>>> well, HD's /have/ been around for /some/ time, but
>>>> contrary to everyone else in the world, you appear to
>>>> believe they're magical and indestructible, especially
>>>> when they have a Google stamp on them.
>>>
>>> Nothing is indestructible, including paper.
>>
>> I never said paper was indestructible. You can destroy anything
>> if you want.
>>
>>> They ALL have
>>> lifetime issues. Ever checked out the condition of books
>>> (i.e. paper) from, say, 1920? Good luck on that one.
>>
>> I have quite a few books from the XIXth century and even more
>> from before WWII and they are just fine. Go to a library or an
>> antiquarian, you may see some even better examples.

 

[thanatoid]

Re: Reliable Medium For Long Term Backup And Archiving

"Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in
news:es7Gs8nkKHA.1536@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl:

> thanatoid wrote:

<SNIP>

>> There was a discussion about that a couple of years ago,
>> in 24hour help I think. The 2 sides were arguing whether
>> it is the "burst" of full current that blows up a weakened
>> filament or
>
> I indeed most certainly believe it IS! (speaking as an EE).
> It's due to the sudden and large onrush (the filament
> resistance is very low when it's cold, so the current surge
> is intially quite large, and there is a sudden thermal
> expansion of the filament, naturally).

Yes, that is what I always thought. But OTHER engineers
disagreed.

> But obviously a light bulb left on all the time will also
> eventually burn out too, however.

Amen.

>> whether it is just coincidental that we notice it more
>> when it happens the moment we turn a light on
>
> Well, it is also true that that's when we notice it the
> most. But that doesn't negate #1 above.
>
> Anyway, there is no concrete evidence that I'm aware that
> tape in tape drive sitting on a shelf lasts longer than a
> magnetic disk in a disk drive does when stored away on a
> shelf.

Not IN a tape drive. You never leave /any/ media in the hardware
unless using it. Basics.

> And, personally, I'd rather it be on a disk, actually, due
> to the inherent problems with tape. Of course, I've had a
> bit of experience with tape over all the decades, too (in
> audio), and have seen some of its "issues".

Nothing is perfect, and ultimately, does anything even matter?
(Just a little thanatoidal comment...)

> I still have a fondness for tape recorders, however, but
> mostly from a nostalgic point of view.

A friend of mine recently bought two used Revox B77's. Those
were the days...

> I have no fondness for wire recorders

That format always kind of freaked me out.

> however, or engraved stone tablets, for
> that matter (for storage).

Amen (so to speak).


--
There are only two classifications of disk drives: Broken drives
and those that will break later.
- Chuck Armstrong (This one I think, http://www.cleanreg.com/,
not the ball player. But who knows. I can't remember where I got
the quote. But it's true.)

 

[Bill in Co.]

Re: Reliable Medium For Long Term Backup And Archiving

thanatoid wrote:
> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in
> news:es7Gs8nkKHA.1536@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl:
>
>> thanatoid wrote:
>
> <SNIP>
>
>>> There was a discussion about that a couple of years ago,
>>> in 24hour help I think. The 2 sides were arguing whether
>>> it is the "burst" of full current that blows up a weakened
>>> filament or
>>
>> I indeed most certainly believe it IS! (speaking as an EE).
>> It's due to the sudden and large onrush (the filament
>> resistance is very low when it's cold, so the current surge
>> is intially quite large, and there is a sudden thermal
>> expansion of the filament, naturally).
>
> Yes, that is what I always thought. But OTHER engineers
> disagreed.

And I think most of us know from our own observations that, generally
speaking, the bulbs go out most frequently just when you turn them on.

>> But obviously a light bulb left on all the time will also
>> eventually burn out too, however.
>
> Amen.
>
>>> whether it is just coincidental that we notice it more
>>> when it happens the moment we turn a light on
>>
>> Well, it is also true that that's when we notice it the
>> most. But that doesn't negate #1 above.
>>
>> Anyway, there is no concrete evidence that I'm aware that
>> tape in tape drive sitting on a shelf lasts longer than a
>> magnetic disk in a disk drive does when stored away on a
>> shelf.
>
> Not IN a tape drive. You never leave /any/ media in the hardware
> unless using it. Basics.

Right, my slipup there, lol. Tape stored outside of the drive, VS a
magnetic disk inside its drive.

But I still think the magnetic disk will last longer, due to the inherent
nature of the media and the playback mechanisms.

>> And, personally, I'd rather it be on a disk, actually, due
>> to the inherent problems with tape. Of course, I've had a
>> bit of experience with tape over all the decades, too (in
>> audio), and have seen some of its "issues".
>
> Nothing is perfect, and ultimately, does anything even matter?
> (Just a little thanatoidal comment...)
>
>> I still have a fondness for tape recorders, however, but
>> mostly from a nostalgic point of view.
>
> A friend of mine recently bought two used Revox B77's. Those
> were the days...

I have a Revox G36 (as I recall) (the old vacuum tube model) here which I
bought used a long time ago. Haven't used it in quite awhile, but keep it
for some of my tapes. They don't make them like they used to, that's for
sure.

>> I have no fondness for wire recorders
>
> That format always kind of freaked me out.
>
>> however, or engraved stone tablets, for
>> that matter (for storage).
>
> Amen (so to speak).

 

[Father Justin]

On 1/8/10 7:40 PM, Abby Brown wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I've been using DVD and CDs for long term backup and archiving.
> However, recent uploading of a hundred or so CDs and DVDs had
> several that failed. These were only about six years old. (I
> typically spot test a newly burned disk.) More than one burner
> and brand of blanks was involved. The burners and blanks are
> garden variety.
>
> What are more reliable alternatives?
>
> Thanks,
> Gary
>
>

I use a Western Digital laptop drive in one of those enclosures.
My reasoning is, laptop drives are designed to take more of a beating
than desktop drives.
Not only that, but I have all my home videos, pictures digitized onto
that drive and its kept in a safety deposit box.

--
http://www.vatican.va

 

[thanatoid]

Re: Reliable Medium For Long Term Backup And Archiving

"Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in
news:eJnY49ukKHA.5820@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl:

<SNIP>

> I have a Revox G36 (as I recall) (the old vacuum tube
> model) here which I bought used a long time ago. Haven't
> used it in quite awhile, but keep it for some of my tapes.
> They don't make them like they used to, that's for sure.

Didn't you just spent some time arguing that tape is NFG in
general?
And - by implication - that newer is better?

Make up your mind ;-]


--
There are only two classifications of disk drives: Broken drives
and those that will break later.
- Chuck Armstrong (This one I think, http://www.cleanreg.com/,
not the ball player. But who knows. I can't remember where I got
the quote. But it's true.)

 

[Bill in Co.]

Re: Reliable Medium For Long Term Backup And Archiving

thanatoid wrote:
> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in
> news:eJnY49ukKHA.5820@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl:
>
> <SNIP>
>
>> I have a Revox G36 (as I recall) (the old vacuum tube
>> model) here which I bought used a long time ago. Haven't
>> used it in quite awhile, but keep it for some of my tapes.
>> They don't make them like they used to, that's for sure.
>
> Didn't you just spent some time arguing that tape is NFG in
> general?
> And - by implication - that newer is better?
>
> Make up your mind ;-]

I said I had some nostalgia for tape recorders.
Newer is better? No, that's not me. In fact, I generally prefer older
versiohs of software (the newer ones are all too often just bloatware).

 

[thanatoid]

Re: Reliable Medium For Long Term Backup And Archiving

"Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in
news:usi$8LykKHA.2132@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl:

<SNIP>

> I said I had some nostalgia for tape recorders.
> Newer is better? No, that's not me. In fact, I generally
> prefer older versiohs of software (the newer ones are all
> too often just bloatware).

Amen, brother. I just mentioned in another post that most of the
software I use is between 5-10 years old - there is absolutely
NO need to upgrade unless some major technological development
takes place. And even then - I yet have to own or use a USB
device...


--
There are only two classifications of disk drives: Broken drives
and those that will break later.
- Chuck Armstrong (This one I think, http://www.cleanreg.com/,
not the ball player. But who knows. I can't remember where I got
the quote. But it's true.)

 

[Unknown]

Re: Reliable Medium For Long Term Backup And Archiving

What a shame. You must have junk for a computer. Newer models use the USB
for keyboards, mice, external HDs
printers etc.
"thanatoid" <waiting@the.exit.invalid> wrote in message
news:Xns9CFDDFB9AE333thanexit@188.40.43.245...
> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here@earthlink.net> wrote in
> news:usi$8LykKHA.2132@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl:
>
> <SNIP>
>
>> I said I had some nostalgia for tape recorders.
>> Newer is better? No, that's not me. In fact, I generally
>> prefer older versiohs of software (the newer ones are all
>> too often just bloatware).
>
> Amen, brother. I just mentioned in another post that most of the
> software I use is between 5-10 years old - there is absolutely
> NO need to upgrade unless some major technological development
> takes place. And even then - I yet have to own or use a USB
> device...
>
>
> --
> There are only two classifications of disk drives: Broken drives
> and those that will break later.
> - Chuck Armstrong (This one I think, http://www.cleanreg.com/,
> not the ball player. But who knows. I can't remember where I got
> the quote. But it's true.)