Need silent, powerful, cool laptop

[John Doue]

On 5/16/2010 12:47 PM, ~misfit~ wrote:
> Somewhere on teh intarwebs BillW50 wrote:
>> In news:hsk56e$1re$1@news.eternal-september.org,
>> BillW50 typed on Fri, 14 May 2010 135:54 -0500:
>>> Well I don't know what Lenovo is doing. But you have to wonder when
>>> Consumer Reports polled 75,000 users who bought a laptop between 2005
>>> and 2009 about their experiences. And Lenovo and Dell came in tied
>>> for dead last. As 21% of them had either repaired or had a serious
>>> problem. Toshiba had the fewest at 16%.
>>
>> If you were curious who was in the running, here was the list.
>>
>> Repairs and Serious Problems
>> ----------------------------
>> Toshiba 16%
>> Sony 17%
>> Compaq 18%
>> Acer 19%
>> Apple 19%
>> HP 20%
>> Gateway 20%
>> Dell 21%
>> Lenovo 21%
>>
>> I was surprised that Asus wasn't in the list. As they generally make
>> really good laptops. There are some lesser known makes too. I am sure
>> if they were included both Dell and Lenovo wouldn't be sitting at the
>> bottom. And I wish Alienware were polled. As they are one of the most
>> powerful laptops out there. But I have no idea what their reliability
>> falls at. Generally the more powerful, the less reliable they are.
>
> My experience with multiple IBM/Lenovo laptops made between 2004 and 2008 is
> completely contrary to that data. However they're all 'ThinkPads', a premium
> brand that IBM still own part of the rights to. I have little experience of
> Lenovo's own models, I've only had one through here but it was fine.
>
> Alienware are merely a range of gaming machines made by Dell, so look there
> for your data.
>
> BTW I've been involved in discussions about that list you quoted above
> before. Not only does it include damage and accidents attributable to the
> user it also shows that there's not that big a difference between the
> various brands. 16% to 21%? A variation of only 5%. It doesn't seem so much
> when you look at it like that.
\
Sorry Shaun, but the difference between 16% and 21% is not 5% but 31%!
Quite significant ... to the extent the data is reliable, and is meaningful.

--
John Doue

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: news@netfront.net ---

 

[Bill]

In message <hsk4hm$r4g$1@news.eternal-september.org>, BillW50
<BillW50@aol.kom> writes
>In news:hsi1ah$mh8$1@news.eternal-september.org, ~misfit~ typed on Fri,
>14 May 2010 11:171 +1200:
>> Didn't I read about two months back that the need for VT had been
>> quietly dropped?
>>
>> Yes, I thought so:
>> http://windowsteamblog.com/windows/...ndows-xp-mode-now-accessible-to-more-pcs.aspx
>>
>> HTH,
>
>Well I stand corrected. Which happens once in a blue moon.

My understanding is that the VT etc. isn't needed for XPMode now, but is
still worth having for speed.

The problem with many laptops of the Vista and W7 generation and the
lack of "Stereo Mix" option in the record "mixer" is entirely separate
from the XPMode recording problem. XPMode has the advantage that you
don't need a separate XP licence to be legal, but my understanding is
that other virtualisation applications may be more versatile. However, I
really like the way I can run old apps in XPMode almost seamlessly,
without the virtual OS being at all obvious.

I tend to stick to Lenovo, which I've been entirely happy with, and Acer
because I can understand how to get drivers from their websites. My
recent 2 Acers seem to have been much better in the hinge area, which
was always an Acer problem in my experience. Lenovo always seem to have
known how to make hinges. The Lenovo I'm typing on is very well designed
in that it is remarkably easy to access the fan and ducting area to
clean the dust out.
--
Bill

 

[Pawlly Phonic]

On May 16, 7:40 am, Bill <Billabo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> In message <hsk4hm$r4...@news.eternal-september.org>, BillW50
> <Bill...@aol.kom> writes
>
> >Innews:hsi1ah$mh8$1@news.eternal-september.org, ~misfit~ typed on Fri,
> >14 May 2010 11:171 +1200:
> >> Didn't I read about two months back that the need for VT had been
> >> quietly dropped?
>
> >> Yes, I thought so:
> >>http://windowsteamblog.com/windows/b/windows7/archive/2010/03/18/wind....
>
> >> HTH,
>
> >Well I stand corrected. Which happens once in a blue moon.
>
> My understanding is that the VT etc. isn't needed for XPMode now, but is
> still worth having for speed.
>
> The problem with many laptops of the Vista and W7 generation and the
> lack of "Stereo Mix" option in the record "mixer" is entirely separate
> from the XPMode recording problem. XPMode has the advantage that you
> don't need a separate XP licence to be legal, but my understanding is
> that other virtualisation applications may be more versatile. However, I
> really like the way I can run old apps in XPMode almost seamlessly,
> without the virtual OS being at all obvious.
>
> I tend to stick to Lenovo, which I've been entirely happy with, and Acer
> because I can understand how to get drivers from their websites. My
> recent 2 Acers seem to have been much better in the hinge area, which
> was always an Acer problem in my experience. Lenovo always seem to have
> known how to make hinges. The Lenovo I'm typing on is very well designed
> in that it is remarkably easy to access the fan and ducting area to
> clean the dust out.
> --
> Bill

Thank you, Bill. Am close to going with Thinkpad X201. Shaun and
Misfit have also helped customize the system. Only BillW50 keeps
filling me with healthy doubts.

The latest scare is CPU whine. Bill, is that latest Lenovo you were
typing on one of the i3 i5 i7s? Now I hear when not particularly
challenged they drop down into something called a C3 or C4 state which
causes the CPU, or the wires around the CPU that power it, to whine or
make "chirping sounds".

There are a bunch of specific x201 complaints at

http://208.74.204.134/t5/X-Series-ThinkPad-Laptops/X201-CPU-Chirping-Sound-Annoying/td-p/219773

but apparently it's a problem with many or most machines with the new
processors. Dell even has a "hope it works" work-around in their KB:

http://support.dell.com/support/top...d=0A7D5CD2E17F5125E0401E0A55176204&doclang=en

Anyoned know anything about that?

Paula

 

[Pawlly Phonic]

On May 16, 7:40 am, Bill <Billabo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> In message <hsk4hm$r4...@news.eternal-september.org>, BillW50
> <Bill...@aol.kom> writes
>
> >Innews:hsi1ah$mh8$1@news.eternal-september.org, ~misfit~ typed on Fri,
> >14 May 2010 11:171 +1200:
> >> Didn't I read about two months back that the need for VT had been
> >> quietly dropped?
>
> >> Yes, I thought so:
> >>http://windowsteamblog.com/windows/b/windows7/archive/2010/03/18/wind....
>
> >> HTH,
>
> >Well I stand corrected. Which happens once in a blue moon.
>
> My understanding is that the VT etc. isn't needed for XPMode now, but is
> still worth having for speed.
>
> The problem with many laptops of the Vista and W7 generation and the
> lack of "Stereo Mix" option in the record "mixer" is entirely separate
> from the XPMode recording problem. XPMode has the advantage that you
> don't need a separate XP licence to be legal, but my understanding is
> that other virtualisation applications may be more versatile. However, I
> really like the way I can run old apps in XPMode almost seamlessly,
> without the virtual OS being at all obvious.
>
> I tend to stick to Lenovo, which I've been entirely happy with, and Acer
> because I can understand how to get drivers from their websites. My
> recent 2 Acers seem to have been much better in the hinge area, which
> was always an Acer problem in my experience. Lenovo always seem to have
> known how to make hinges. The Lenovo I'm typing on is very well designed
> in that it is remarkably easy to access the fan and ducting area to
> clean the dust out.
> --
> Bill

Thank you, Bill. Am close to going with Thinkpad X201. Shaun and
Misfit have also helped customize the system. Only BillW50 keeps
filling me with healthy doubts.

The latest scare is CPU whine. Bill, is that latest Lenovo you were
typing on one of the i3 i5 i7s? Now I hear when not particularly
challenged they drop down into something called a C3 or C4 state which
causes the CPU, or the wires around the CPU that power it, to whine or
make "chirping sounds".

There are a bunch of specific x201 complaints at

http://208.74.204.134/t5/X-Series-ThinkPad-Laptops/X201-CPU-Chirping-Sound-Annoying/td-p/219773

but apparently it's a problem with many or most machines with the new
processors. Dell even has a "hope it works" work-around in their KB:

http://support.dell.com/support/top...d=0A7D5CD2E17F5125E0401E0A55176204&doclang=en

Anyoned know anything about that?

Paula

 

[Bill]

In message
<2677e1e0-b172-4f05-8ed9-eb44c3e11c4a@s4g2000prh.googlegroups.com>,
Pawlly Phonic <pawllyphonic@gmail.com> writes
>Thank you, Bill. Am close to going with Thinkpad X201. Shaun and
>Misfit have also helped customize the system. Only BillW50 keeps
>filling me with healthy doubts.
>
>The latest scare is CPU whine. Bill, is that latest Lenovo you were
>typing on one of the i3 i5 i7s? Now I hear when not particularly
>challenged they drop down into something called a C3 or C4 state which
>causes the CPU, or the wires around the CPU that power it, to whine or
>make "chirping sounds".

I have healthy doubts all the time. Especially about surveys.
My latest Lenovo is quite old, its a 3000 N100, which I chose because it
was on offer at the time, good value and came with Vista Business with a
free XP downgrade. I use it on XP. My previous 'Lenovo' was an IBM R40
(I think), which had a trackpad plus trackpoint. I quite liked that, but
occasionally the 'nipple' did get in the way.
Both of these had firewire, which was essential for the audio interfaces
I was using at the time.
I know nothing about CPU whine, but this is a much older dual core T5200
processor.
One of the Acers here is a 12.1 inch wide screen. It's a very handy
size, but some text can be quite small and I do have to wear glasses for
some work.

I prefer to work with a number of laptops, each being used for a
specific purpose, so mine are all much lower-end machines than the X201.

Oh dear, while typing this I've suddenly got a loud clicking from the
HD, so it's time to check the backups and look out the HD warranty.
Can't blame Lenovo - I upped the 80gig one to 120 and then recently to
500.
--
Bill

 

[me@privacy.net]

Pawlly Phonic <pawllyphonic@gmail.com> wrote:

> Am close to going with Thinkpad X201.


<drool!>

Id get the convertible tablet model myself

Is that what you are getting?

 

[Pawlly Phonic]

m..., No, not the tablet. I'm afraid the arthritis kicks in a even
faster writing than typing. But it's still droolable provided it's as
quiet as the drummers claim. And I'll get the warranty that allows
you to drool all over it & they still gotta fix it.

Bill,
I got that beat. (Hope they give you a good replacement for the
500GB, BTW) Am typing this on an ancient Satellite that still has its
60GB drive. Vista was not an option yet. Its power jack has been
replaced four times, twice by Toshiba and twice by me, though the
second botched attempt (I'm NOT very good with my hands but I still
blame that on an inadequate soldiering iron) has left it basically
immobile.

The cpu caused whine with the new i3 i5 i7 chips seems to affect just
about all makers, though not all computers of any given model.
Anyone interested can google

cpu whine (i5 | i7)

or that Dell link I posted above gives a good (if you can take a
maker's viewpoint into account) description of what's happening. If
anyone has any experiences, insights, or fixes I'd be interested in
hearing them. When I googled "CPU whine x201" I almost got scared off
it, until I saw that you could google "CPU whine - just about any i5
or i7 machine" and see the same complaints. But it's impossible to
tell what percentage of users this is affecting.

Regards,

Paula

 

[Pawlly Phonic]

m..., No, not the tablet. I'm afraid the arthritis kicks in a even
faster writing than typing. But it's still droolable provided it's as
quiet as the drummers claim. And I'll get the warranty that allows
you to drool all over it & they still gotta fix it.

Bill,
I got that beat. (Hope they give you a good replacement for the
500GB, BTW) Am typing this on an ancient Satellite that still has its
60GB drive. Vista was not an option yet. Its power jack has been
replaced four times, twice by Toshiba and twice by me, though the
second botched attempt (I'm NOT very good with my hands but I still
blame that on an inadequate soldiering iron) has left it basically
immobile.

The cpu caused whine with the new i3 i5 i7 chips seems to affect just
about all makers, though not all computers of any given model.
Anyone interested can google

cpu whine (i5 | i7)

or that Dell link I posted above gives a good (if you can take a
maker's viewpoint into account) description of what's happening. If
anyone has any experiences, insights, or fixes I'd be interested in
hearing them. When I googled "CPU whine x201" I almost got scared off
it, until I saw that you could google "CPU whine - just about any i5
or i7 machine" and see the same complaints. But it's impossible to
tell what percentage of users this is affecting.

Regards,

Paula

 

[~misfit~]

Somewhere on teh intarwebs John Doue wrote:
> On 5/16/2010 12:47 PM, ~misfit~ wrote:
>> Somewhere on teh intarwebs BillW50 wrote:
>>> In news:hsk56e$1re$1@news.eternal-september.org,
>>> BillW50 typed on Fri, 14 May 2010 135:54 -0500:
>>>> Well I don't know what Lenovo is doing. But you have to wonder when
>>>> Consumer Reports polled 75,000 users who bought a laptop between
>>>> 2005 and 2009 about their experiences. And Lenovo and Dell came in
>>>> tied for dead last. As 21% of them had either repaired or had a
>>>> serious problem. Toshiba had the fewest at 16%.
>>>
>>> If you were curious who was in the running, here was the list.
>>>
>>> Repairs and Serious Problems
>>> ----------------------------
>>> Toshiba 16%
>>> Sony 17%
>>> Compaq 18%
>>> Acer 19%
>>> Apple 19%
>>> HP 20%
>>> Gateway 20%
>>> Dell 21%
>>> Lenovo 21%
>>>
>>> I was surprised that Asus wasn't in the list. As they generally make
>>> really good laptops. There are some lesser known makes too. I am
>>> sure if they were included both Dell and Lenovo wouldn't be sitting
>>> at the bottom. And I wish Alienware were polled. As they are one of
>>> the most powerful laptops out there. But I have no idea what their
>>> reliability falls at. Generally the more powerful, the less
>>> reliable they are.
>>
>> My experience with multiple IBM/Lenovo laptops made between 2004 and
>> 2008 is completely contrary to that data. However they're all
>> 'ThinkPads', a premium brand that IBM still own part of the rights
>> to. I have little experience of Lenovo's own models, I've only had
>> one through here but it was fine. Alienware are merely a range of gaming
>> machines made by Dell, so
>> look there for your data.
>>
>> BTW I've been involved in discussions about that list you quoted
>> above before. Not only does it include damage and accidents
>> attributable to the user it also shows that there's not that big a
>> difference between the various brands. 16% to 21%? A variation of
>> only 5%. It doesn't seem so much when you look at it like that.
> \
> Sorry Shaun, but the difference between 16% and 21% is not 5% but 31%!
> Quite significant ... to the extent the data is reliable, and is
> meaningful.

Heh! The differenece between 16% and 21% is indeed 31%.

However I was alluding to the difference between 16% (of 100%) and 21% (of
100%) which is in fact 5%. i.e. In a sample of 100 a 21% 'result' is 5
higher than a 16% result. (Of course, all of those five, [and one or two
more possibly] coffee may well have been spilled into the machines...)

As I mentioned, their is massive doubt about the validity of that list
(which was collected from US repair centres). Not only does it include
user-inflicted damage (and apparently accidental damage featured highly in
the figures) but it also covers a period of four years. A lot changes in the
world of computing in four years. Then you need to take into account things
like Lenovo branded laptops weren't sold outside of China until well into
2006, then only sporadically at first (and the name 'Lenovo wasn't featured
on ThinkPads until [essentially] 200. They were essentially a new brand on
the market as they didn't go through the ThinkPad design or manufacture
process so had teething problems initially.

Also I've heard it said that Toshiba is (or during that period was) largely
aimed at corporates and businesses where they were better cared for and
are/were more expensive than others on the list, Sony are/were percieved as
being an expensive status symbol and, as such were better cared for. Dell
and Gateway are considered cheap (and indeed are cheaper on average than
others on the list) so not only tended to get 'thrown around' a bit more as
a refecltion of their purchase price but their purchase price also reflected
the build quality, as it must.

Then you must consider that IBM isn't even on the list, despite IBM branded
laptops being around for most of the period in question with a lot of
educational institutes providing them to their students as part of the first
years tuition costs as well as them having a large business presence,
especially in the US (as they are a US company). Also, they've been around
since 1924 as IBM (before that they were known as the Tabulating Machine
Company, formed in 1896). They trademarked the word "Think" (as in
'ThinkPad') in 1935. 1935! This T60 ThinkPad has history.

More 'data':

http://www.geckoandfly.com/6311/the-most-reliable-laptop-survey-best-netbook-reliability-comparison/
From the above link:
'Well, it doesn't matter the brand of the laptop, after all, 90% of the
laptop in the world are manufactured by Hon Hai Precision Industry Co, also
known as Foxconn Technology Group (Taiwan). Yes, same goes for your superior
an expensive Apple MacBook."
(Ok the grammar isn't briliant but perhap's the author isn't a native
English speaker. Also, reading the source paper linked at that site gives a
better picture of the situation than the 'written for mass-media' web page.)

What's the old saying? Oh, yes; "Lies, damned lies, and statistics." <g>
--
Shaun.

"When we dream.... that's just our brains defragmenting" G Jackson.