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movement of mouse turns on pc

G

glee

Flightless Bird
That is a sign of a damaged or incomplete download.
Delete it and download it again directly from this link, with your
anti-virus momentarily disabled...it may be interfering with the
download.... and save it to the Desktop or My Documents. On-Demand-scan
it with your AV to make sure it is clean, then run SIW while the AV is
disabled.
http://www.gtopala.com/download/siw.exe
It is 1.5MB in size.
--
Glen Ventura, MS MVP Oct. 2002 - Sept. 2009
A+
http://dts-l.net/


"Jack B" <jslimp01nospam@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:uX6kOea2KHA.5820@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> Ok, I tried to run System Information for Windows, but I get a pop up
> that
> says siw.exe is not a valid Win32 application.
>
>
> Jack
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
>
> "glee" <glee29@spamindspring.com> wrote in message
> news:%23yuSxgX2KHA.3844@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> "Jack B" <jslimp01nospam@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:%23JyyljF2KHA.5880@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>>I thought I licked my pc crash problem, but apparently not.
>>
>> The pc locks up and I need to give it a hard shut down.
>>
>> But if I move the mouse afterwards, the pc powers on just as if I
>> pushed the
>> power on button! Does this give anyone a clue as to what the problem
>> is?
>
> I've read your other posts in this thread and there is not enough info
> to make more than guesses. Everyone thinks it is overheating....I
> don't....but again, guessing.
>
> Download System Information for Windows (SIW)
> http://www.gtopala.com/siw-download.html
> Get the "SIW standalone" download and you don't have to install
> it....just download to your desktop or other folder, and run it:
> http://www.gtopala.com/download/siw.exe
>
> Expand "Hardware" in the left pane, and select "Sensors". It will
> show
> all the temps and voltages available through the sensors on your
> system
> for the CPU and the hard drives, and also shows the CPU fan speed.
> Post back with the temps shown...leave it running a while and see if
> the
> temps fluctuate much.
>
> Do you get the freeze in Safe Mode?
> Do you get the freeze if you disconnect all peripherals (printer,
> scanner, external drives)?
> Do you get the freeze if you do a clean boot (stay off-line during a
> clean boot as your AV will not be running)?
>
> How to configure Windows XP to start in a "clean boot" state
> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/310353
>
> --
> Glen Ventura, MS MVP Oct. 2002 - Sept. 2009
> A+
> http://dts-l.net/
>
>
 
J

Jose

Flightless Bird
On Apr 11, 9:09 am, "glee" <gle...@spamindspring.com> wrote:
> "Jack B" <jslimp01nos...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>
> news:%23JyyljF2KHA.5880@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>
> >I thought I licked my pc crash problem, but apparently not.
>
> > The pc locks up and I need to give it a hard shut down.
>
> > But if I move the mouse afterwards, the pc powers on just as if I
> > pushed the
> > power on button!  Does this give anyone a clue as to what the problem
> > is?
>
> I've read your other posts in this thread and there is not enough info
> to make more than guesses.  Everyone thinks it is overheating....I
> don't....but again, guessing.
>

Not everyone!
 
G

glee

Flightless Bird
"Jose" <jose_ease@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:0a1d92f3-c914-4b22-ad6b-7b114b9c5719@35g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
>On Apr 11, 9:09 am, "glee" <gle...@spamindspring.com> wrote:
>> "Jack B" <jslimp01nos...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>>
>> news:%23JyyljF2KHA.5880@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>>
>> >I thought I licked my pc crash problem, but apparently not.
>>
>> > The pc locks up and I need to give it a hard shut down.
>>
>> > But if I move the mouse afterwards, the pc powers on just as if I
>> > pushed the
>> > power on button! Does this give anyone a clue as to what the
>> > problem
>> > is?
>>
>> I've read your other posts in this thread and there is not enough
>> info
>> to make more than guesses. Everyone thinks it is overheating....I
>> don't....but again, guessing.
>>
>
> Not everyone!

;-)
 
J

Jack B

Flightless Bird
Does the newsgroup prohibit attachments? I sent a message with the screen
shots of the memory and the temperature but it has not appeared here yet.


Jack
 
G

glee

Flightless Bird
"Jack B" <jslimp01nospam@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:-O9rlNMe2KHA.5480@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> Does the newsgroup prohibit attachments? I sent a message with the
> screen
> shots of the memory and the temperature but it has not appeared here
> yet.

Yes...no attachments. You can just type what the temps are......
--
Glen Ventura, MS MVP Oct. 2002 - Sept. 2009
A+
http://dts-l.net/
 
J

Jack B

Flightless Bird
Ok, here are the temps:
TEMPIN0 = 40 C (103 F)
TEMPIN1 = 52 C (125 F)
TEMPIN2 = 81 C (177 F)

And here is the memory screenshot:
http://www.leveragegame.com/PC memory.gif


Jack

-------------------------------------


"glee" <glee29@spamindspring.com> wrote in message
news:uN%23QKYe2KHA.1708@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
"Jack B" <jslimp01nospam@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:-O9rlNMe2KHA.5480@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> Does the newsgroup prohibit attachments? I sent a message with the
> screen
> shots of the memory and the temperature but it has not appeared here
> yet.

Yes...no attachments. You can just type what the temps are......
--
Glen Ventura, MS MVP Oct. 2002 - Sept. 2009
A+
http://dts-l.net/
 
P

Paul

Flightless Bird
Jack B wrote:
> Ok, here are the temps:
> TEMPIN0 = 40 C (103 F)
> TEMPIN1 = 52 C (125 F)
> TEMPIN2 = 81 C (177 F)
>
> And here is the memory screenshot:
> http://www.leveragegame.com/PC memory.gif
>
>
> Jack
>

So whatever is running at 81C, is too hot.

If you want to figure out which readout is the CPU,
you start with the computer idle, then start a program
with 100% CPU loading. The CPU temperature is the
one that shoots up fast. A test program you can use,
for a load test, is SuperPI.

http://www.techpowerup.com/downloads/366/Super_PI_Mod_v1.5.html

In that download, when you unzip it, you should see
Super_PI_Mod.exe. Start that, then select "Calculate".
A menu should pop up. Select 1M for a 1 million digit calculation.

At the instant that starts running, glance at your constantly
updating temperature readout (SpeedFan). The temperature that responds
soonest and shoots up, should be your CPU temperature. If it is the 81C
one that shoots up (even higher), you have a good idea what is going on.

Recommended temperature for the CPU is 65C. The CPU is rated
to take more than that, but 65C is a typical number for stability.

Since there can be large measurement errors (thermistor versus
diode, wrong offset and so on), there is no way to be certain
it really is that hot. But if you have your suspicions (like the freezing),
then disassembling and applying fresh paste may help.

When I tried this test on my CPU, one core of my Core2 processor
went from 28C to 36C within a one second period. And then stayed
stable at that temperature until the SuperPI calculation was
finished. Since none of the other readouts changed, I'd assume
that one particular readout, belongs to my CPU. My CPU runs real
cool, and has a very low idle power consumption.

Paul

>
>
> "glee" <glee29@spamindspring.com> wrote in message
> news:uN%23QKYe2KHA.1708@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> "Jack B" <jslimp01nospam@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:-O9rlNMe2KHA.5480@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>> Does the newsgroup prohibit attachments? I sent a message with the
>> screen
>> shots of the memory and the temperature but it has not appeared here
>> yet.
>
> Yes...no attachments. You can just type what the temps are......
 
J

Jose

Flightless Bird
On Apr 11, 9:53 pm, "Jack B" <jslimp01nos...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Does the newsgroup prohibit attachments?  I sent a message with the screen
> shots of the memory and the temperature but it has not appeared here yet.
>
> Jack

You cannot attach screen shots here, but here is a way to share your
screenshot:

To create and email/post/print a screenshot:

Press the Print Scrn button to copy your entire screen to the Windows
clipboard.

Press Alt Print Scrn to copy just the active window to the Windows
clipboard.

Open MS Paint:

Start, Program Accessories, Paint

When Paint opens, press CTRL-V to paste the clipboard, save the new
Paint file
to your desktop or someplace you can remember. JPG files take up less
hard
disk space than BMP files and just as readable.

Make as many screenshots as you need. Practice makes perfect. Be
careful your
screenshot does not contain any personal information. Practice
viewing your images
before you upload them to be sure they are okay.

Some sites will let you attach a file directly to your post. If the
site has some kind of
attachment/upload function it is usually easiest just to use it.

If there is no such function in your message board to upload files,
then use a free
third party image hosting WWW site.

Create a free account on some free picture hosting web site. You can
always remove
your account later if you want. Here are some free image hosting
sites:

http://www.imageshack.us/
http://photobucket.com/

Using your free account, upload your screenshot(s) (the JPG or BMP
files) to the
site and it will return to you a URL web address (a Direct Link) for
your new image(s)
which you can paste the Direct Link in a message post, email, etc.

Post that Direct Link web address back here in your response and we
can click on the
link address and see your screenshot. Post as many as you need - the
sites are free.

When you are done, what you post for others to use should look
something like this:

http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/6530/taskmanagerv.jpg
 
G

glee

Flightless Bird
81 C is too hot for anything in there. If it is your CPU, it IS
overheating.

See Pauls's reply for a way to determine which is your CPU, or you can
look in your BIOS setup at the Hardware Monitoring there...it should
show the temps with labels as to which is the CPU.


"Jack B" <jslimp01nospam@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:%23CAYdaf2KHA.1708@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> Ok, here are the temps:
> TEMPIN0 = 40 C (103 F)
> TEMPIN1 = 52 C (125 F)
> TEMPIN2 = 81 C (177 F)
>
> And here is the memory screenshot:
> http://www.leveragegame.com/PC memory.gif
>
> -------------------------------------
>
>
> "glee" <glee29@spamindspring.com> wrote in message
> news:uN%23QKYe2KHA.1708@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> "Jack B" <jslimp01nospam@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:-O9rlNMe2KHA.5480@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>> Does the newsgroup prohibit attachments? I sent a message with the
>> screen
>> shots of the memory and the temperature but it has not appeared here
>> yet.
>
> Yes...no attachments. You can just type what the temps are......

--
Glen Ventura, MS MVP Oct. 2002 - Sept. 2009
A+
http://dts-l.net/
 
J

Jack B

Flightless Bird
Yes, I did post it earlier ---
And here is the memory screenshot:
http://www.leveragegame.com/PC memory.gif


Jack

-----------------------------------------------


"Jose" <jose_ease@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6e289e92-89a6-4495-a8d9-79c63a24cb4f@z7g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
On Apr 11, 9:53 pm, "Jack B" <jslimp01nos...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Does the newsgroup prohibit attachments? I sent a message with the screen
> shots of the memory and the temperature but it has not appeared here yet.
>
> Jack

You cannot attach screen shots here, but here is a way to share your
screenshot:

To create and email/post/print a screenshot:

Press the Print Scrn button to copy your entire screen to the Windows
clipboard.

Press Alt Print Scrn to copy just the active window to the Windows
clipboard.

Open MS Paint:

Start, Program Accessories, Paint

When Paint opens, press CTRL-V to paste the clipboard, save the new
Paint file
to your desktop or someplace you can remember. JPG files take up less
hard
disk space than BMP files and just as readable.

Make as many screenshots as you need. Practice makes perfect. Be
careful your
screenshot does not contain any personal information. Practice
viewing your images
before you upload them to be sure they are okay.

Some sites will let you attach a file directly to your post. If the
site has some kind of
attachment/upload function it is usually easiest just to use it.

If there is no such function in your message board to upload files,
then use a free
third party image hosting WWW site.

Create a free account on some free picture hosting web site. You can
always remove
your account later if you want. Here are some free image hosting
sites:

http://www.imageshack.us/
http://photobucket.com/

Using your free account, upload your screenshot(s) (the JPG or BMP
files) to the
site and it will return to you a URL web address (a Direct Link) for
your new image(s)
which you can paste the Direct Link in a message post, email, etc.

Post that Direct Link web address back here in your response and we
can click on the
link address and see your screenshot. Post as many as you need - the
sites are free.

When you are done, what you post for others to use should look
something like this:

http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/6530/taskmanagerv.jpg
 
J

Jack B

Flightless Bird
You folks have really stuck with me on this -- thanks so much -- never
expected such extensive help but I really appreciate it.

Here are the results on running SuperPI:
http://www.leveragegame.com/PC-temperatures-Apr12-before_and_after_SuperPI.gif

As you see, the TMPIN1 is the cpu, and it seems to be ok.

Glen, I tried > look in your BIOS setup at the Hardware Monitoring
there...it should show the temps with labels as to which is the CPU.<
but I didn't see any labels -- I looked under Hardware/Bios -- it appears
there is only one on which the info is given.


Jack
 
J

Jack B

Flightless Bird
Also, here are 3 photos of the MOBO:

http://www.leveragegame.com/HPIM7892-cropr-741x571.jpg

http://www.leveragegame.com/HPIM7892cropr-935x663-t.jpg

http://www.leveragegame.com/HPIM7894r-782x585.jpg


Jack


-------------------------------------------



"Jack B" <jslimp01nospam@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:ucYFD4k2KHA.3568@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
You folks have really stuck with me on this -- thanks so much -- never
expected such extensive help but I really appreciate it.

Here are the results on running SuperPI:
http://www.leveragegame.com/PC-temperatures-Apr12-before_and_after_SuperPI.gif

As you see, the TMPIN1 is the cpu, and it seems to be ok.

Glen, I tried > look in your BIOS setup at the Hardware Monitoring
there...it should show the temps with labels as to which is the CPU.<
but I didn't see any labels -- I looked under Hardware/Bios -- it appears
there is only one on which the info is given.


Jack
 
G

glee

Flightless Bird
"Jack B" <jslimp01nospam@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:ucYFD4k2KHA.3568@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> You folks have really stuck with me on this -- thanks so much -- never
> expected such extensive help but I really appreciate it.
>
> Here are the results on running SuperPI:
> http://www.leveragegame.com/PC-temperatures-Apr12-before_and_after_SuperPI.gif
>
> As you see, the TMPIN1 is the cpu, and it seems to be ok.
>
> Glen, I tried > look in your BIOS setup at the Hardware Monitoring
> there...it should show the temps with labels as to which is the CPU.<
> but I didn't see any labels -- I looked under Hardware/Bios -- it
> appears
> there is only one on which the info is given.

No, I didn't mean look in SIW under the Hardware\BIOS entry. I menat
restart your computer and press the required key to enter your BIOS
setup screens, and look for the Hardware Monitoring screen there to see
what CPU temp is reported.

Usually you will press the DEL key early in the boot sequence, often
while a big logo is on the screen before Windows starts loading, to
enter BIOS setup. Some OEM systems like Dell use the DEL key, others
use F1 or F2, or F10
--
Glen Ventura, MS MVP Oct. 2002 - Sept. 2009
A+
http://dts-l.net/
 
J

Jack B

Flightless Bird
Ok, Everest identifies the cpu as the one at TEMPN1 and currently at 53
Cº -- the MOBO is at 42 Cº and the Aux is at 82º. However, the Aux could be
a bogus read or one that is not relevant. The cpu fan is at 5625 rpm and
the ps is at 2446 rpm.

Additional research indicates that the capacitors on the MOBO may be going
on the fritz per the way they look in the photos in the above post.


Jack
 
M

mm

Flightless Bird
On Sun, 11 Apr 2010 14:42:30 -0400, "Jack B"
<jslimp01nospam@earthlink.net> wrote:

>Ok, I'll try System Information for Windows shortly.
>
>BTW, the pc froze after booting up today, so it wasn't on very long at
>all -- booted up, accepted my user mode, then froze.

Are you still considering temperature. If this was the first boot of
the day, it can't be temperature.


BTW, my computer had been running hot and I'd found it will cool off,
not completely but a lot, in 15 seconds if it is off and in not much
more time than than in Standby.
>Jack

--
Posters should say what U,S. state they live in. Why do
so many keep their state as secret as their own name?
 
M

mm

Flightless Bird
On Sun, 11 Apr 2010 14:42:30 -0400, "Jack B"
<jslimp01nospam@earthlink.net> wrote:

>
>Download System Information for Windows (SIW)
>http://www.gtopala.com/siw-download.html
>Get the "SIW standalone" download and you don't have to install
>it....just download to your desktop or other folder, and run it:
>http://www.gtopala.com/download/siw.exe

Tbanks. This is cool,

>Expand "Hardware" in the left pane, and select "Sensors". It will show
>all the temps and voltages available through the sensors on your system
>for the CPU and the hard drives, and also shows the CPU fan speed.
>Post back with the temps shown...leave it running a while and see if the
>temps fluctuate much.

This too. Well, it seems to have caused erratic readings in my Asus
Probe2. The indicated CPU fan speed went 3 times as high as it was
supposed to be,

One temp reading went to freezing (which of course can't happen in an
instate)

And the voltages went almost to zero, and others went twice as high as
normal, it seems while they were being meausred by SIW.

I guess this didn't really change values, but it's scarey to get all
these bad reading. They make the Assus probe screen jump to the
front, also.

--
Posters should say what U,S. state they live in. Why do
so many keep their state as secret as their own name?
 
P

Paul

Flightless Bird
Jack B wrote:
> Ok, Everest identifies the cpu as the one at TEMPN1 and currently at 53
> Cº -- the MOBO is at 42 Cº and the Aux is at 82º. However, the Aux could be
> a bogus read or one that is not relevant. The cpu fan is at 5625 rpm and
> the ps is at 2446 rpm.
>
> Additional research indicates that the capacitors on the MOBO may be going
> on the fritz per the way they look in the photos in the above post.
>
>
> Jack
>

That is exactly what I was about to ask you next :-( I noticed
the discoloration in this photo.

http://www.leveragegame.com/HPIM7894r-782x585.jpg

The one in the center, with the orange goo on top, looks ripe.
The "lines" on the cap, are stamped in the metal, to form a
pressure relief valve. If the cap starts to fail, and gas builds
up inside, the stamp marks crack open. Then the liquid can ooze
out.

Vcore will be unstable, especially when there are so few output caps
in your circuit, and one of them has failed for sure. It is easy to
get crashes with the caps like that.

I had an ATX power supply that failed like that, and I got some
orange-rust colored deposits on the top of four output side caps.

There are web sites, that sell replacement capacitor kits, but you'd
have to be a died-in-the-wool hardware repair person, to do the repair yourself.
The thing is, with caps, you have to replace whole sets of them. As
they're likely to fail at the same time. Your Vcore circuit is the typical
two phase design popular with Athlon motherboards. And there don't seem to be
too many caps associated directly with Vcore.

http://www.badcaps.net/

It would be more "fun" to replace them, if the motherboards were designed
properly for easy removal. At my company, we used extra-large holes for capacitor
leads, and at the time, it never occurred to me why we used them. Until one
day, I needed to change out a cap on a board, and it came out easy. A
lot of other boards (like at a second company I worked at), use "interference
fit" holes, where the leg of the capacitor is basically jammed into the hole.
Those are the devil to remove. Even with a vacuum de-soldering station, I had
to say many swear words to get one out. And I had a few of them to do.
With home tools, dealing with that kind of crap, would be no fun at all.

You can take the "brute force" approach, and cut away the cap from the top,
leaving the spindly two legs standing there. But the problem with using a
lot of force during the repair, is the danger of damaging the plated
holes, ripping up tracks and so on. Motherboards are not fabricated,
with those kinds of forces in mind. If you could get a hold of the lead
from the top, where it goes into the board, you could pull on it while
heating from the solder side, and the leads would come out easier that
way. But man-handling the cap from the top, comes with some risk,
and I've always tried to do them, by removing all the solder from the
holes, and forcing them out from the back.

The plated thru hole, can be ripped right out of the motherboard,
if you use heat and force on them. I know, because I've done that (but
while practicing on surplus circuit boards I used to buy as a kid).
It's how I learned what a plated hole is.

In this picture, you can see a "land" or pad, which may be visible
from the top of the motherboard. In the example, the motherboard
is five layers (which would not be considered normal). Motherboards
are four layer, with two copper layers inside. Some motherboards were
six layer, like RAMBUS boards, as they needed additional controlled
impedance routing layers. There may even be a few with eight layers
for all I know. But since the motherboard cost goes up with layer
count, four layer would be preferred for high volume low cost
computer motherboards. And you can rip that "thing" in the picture,
right out of the hole, with enough force.

http://lh5.ggpht.com/interfacebus.c...Qg/s800/minimum-annular-ring-enternal-pwb.jpg

So now the question would boil down to, is your motherboard make and
model available on Ebay ? And if it is, are the caps on the unit
on Ebay, in any better shape than yours ? The "Capacitor Plague"
affected some computing products, pretty heavily, such that certain
Dell motherboards, you would not expect to find any good ones for
sale (unless someone re-capped them first).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague

Paul
 
J

Jack B

Flightless Bird
Paul,

Replacing the capacitors is definitely out of my scope. Now I just need the
pc to hang in there until I'm done with my project and get a new one. I
hate to think about leaving WinXP since I feel so comfortable with it. I've
gone thru Win 3.0, 3.11, 95, 98, and XP has been great. I've got a laptop
with Windows Vista and I hate it.

It still baffles me that I can do a hard shut down, and afterwards sometimes
(not always) movement of the mouse turns the pc back on.


Jack

---------------------------------------------


"Paul" <nospam@needed.com> wrote in message
news:hq10p2$fip$1@speranza.aioe.org...
Jack B wrote:
> Ok, Everest identifies the cpu as the one at TEMPN1 and currently at 53
> Cº -- the MOBO is at 42 Cº and the Aux is at 82º. However, the Aux could
> be
> a bogus read or one that is not relevant. The cpu fan is at 5625 rpm and
> the ps is at 2446 rpm.
>
> Additional research indicates that the capacitors on the MOBO may be going
> on the fritz per the way they look in the photos in the above post.
>
>
> Jack
>

That is exactly what I was about to ask you next :-( I noticed
the discoloration in this photo.

http://www.leveragegame.com/HPIM7894r-782x585.jpg

The one in the center, with the orange goo on top, looks ripe.
The "lines" on the cap, are stamped in the metal, to form a
pressure relief valve. If the cap starts to fail, and gas builds
up inside, the stamp marks crack open. Then the liquid can ooze
out.

Vcore will be unstable, especially when there are so few output caps
in your circuit, and one of them has failed for sure. It is easy to
get crashes with the caps like that.

I had an ATX power supply that failed like that, and I got some
orange-rust colored deposits on the top of four output side caps.

There are web sites, that sell replacement capacitor kits, but you'd
have to be a died-in-the-wool hardware repair person, to do the repair
yourself.
The thing is, with caps, you have to replace whole sets of them. As
they're likely to fail at the same time. Your Vcore circuit is the typical
two phase design popular with Athlon motherboards. And there don't seem to
be
too many caps associated directly with Vcore.

http://www.badcaps.net/

It would be more "fun" to replace them, if the motherboards were designed
properly for easy removal. At my company, we used extra-large holes for
capacitor
leads, and at the time, it never occurred to me why we used them. Until one
day, I needed to change out a cap on a board, and it came out easy. A
lot of other boards (like at a second company I worked at), use
"interference
fit" holes, where the leg of the capacitor is basically jammed into the
hole.
Those are the devil to remove. Even with a vacuum de-soldering station, I
had
to say many swear words to get one out. And I had a few of them to do.
With home tools, dealing with that kind of crap, would be no fun at all.

You can take the "brute force" approach, and cut away the cap from the top,
leaving the spindly two legs standing there. But the problem with using a
lot of force during the repair, is the danger of damaging the plated
holes, ripping up tracks and so on. Motherboards are not fabricated,
with those kinds of forces in mind. If you could get a hold of the lead
from the top, where it goes into the board, you could pull on it while
heating from the solder side, and the leads would come out easier that
way. But man-handling the cap from the top, comes with some risk,
and I've always tried to do them, by removing all the solder from the
holes, and forcing them out from the back.

The plated thru hole, can be ripped right out of the motherboard,
if you use heat and force on them. I know, because I've done that (but
while practicing on surplus circuit boards I used to buy as a kid).
It's how I learned what a plated hole is.

In this picture, you can see a "land" or pad, which may be visible
from the top of the motherboard. In the example, the motherboard
is five layers (which would not be considered normal). Motherboards
are four layer, with two copper layers inside. Some motherboards were
six layer, like RAMBUS boards, as they needed additional controlled
impedance routing layers. There may even be a few with eight layers
for all I know. But since the motherboard cost goes up with layer
count, four layer would be preferred for high volume low cost
computer motherboards. And you can rip that "thing" in the picture,
right out of the hole, with enough force.

http://lh5.ggpht.com/interfacebus.c...Qg/s800/minimum-annular-ring-enternal-pwb.jpg

So now the question would boil down to, is your motherboard make and
model available on Ebay ? And if it is, are the caps on the unit
on Ebay, in any better shape than yours ? The "Capacitor Plague"
affected some computing products, pretty heavily, such that certain
Dell motherboards, you would not expect to find any good ones for
sale (unless someone re-capped them first).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague

Paul
 
U

Unknown

Flightless Bird
Is it a wired mouse?
"Jack B" <jslimp01nospam@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:-ODmr2xx2KHA.1016@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> Paul,
>
> Replacing the capacitors is definitely out of my scope. Now I just need
> the
> pc to hang in there until I'm done with my project and get a new one. I
> hate to think about leaving WinXP since I feel so comfortable with it.
> I've
> gone thru Win 3.0, 3.11, 95, 98, and XP has been great. I've got a laptop
> with Windows Vista and I hate it.
>
> It still baffles me that I can do a hard shut down, and afterwards
> sometimes
> (not always) movement of the mouse turns the pc back on.
>
>
> Jack
>
> ---------------------------------------------
>
>
> "Paul" <nospam@needed.com> wrote in message
> news:hq10p2$fip$1@speranza.aioe.org...
> Jack B wrote:
>> Ok, Everest identifies the cpu as the one at TEMPN1 and currently at 53
>> Cº -- the MOBO is at 42 Cº and the Aux is at 82º. However, the Aux could
>> be
>> a bogus read or one that is not relevant. The cpu fan is at 5625 rpm and
>> the ps is at 2446 rpm.
>>
>> Additional research indicates that the capacitors on the MOBO may be
>> going
>> on the fritz per the way they look in the photos in the above post.
>>
>>
>> Jack
>>
>
> That is exactly what I was about to ask you next :-( I noticed
> the discoloration in this photo.
>
> http://www.leveragegame.com/HPIM7894r-782x585.jpg
>
> The one in the center, with the orange goo on top, looks ripe.
> The "lines" on the cap, are stamped in the metal, to form a
> pressure relief valve. If the cap starts to fail, and gas builds
> up inside, the stamp marks crack open. Then the liquid can ooze
> out.
>
> Vcore will be unstable, especially when there are so few output caps
> in your circuit, and one of them has failed for sure. It is easy to
> get crashes with the caps like that.
>
> I had an ATX power supply that failed like that, and I got some
> orange-rust colored deposits on the top of four output side caps.
>
> There are web sites, that sell replacement capacitor kits, but you'd
> have to be a died-in-the-wool hardware repair person, to do the repair
> yourself.
> The thing is, with caps, you have to replace whole sets of them. As
> they're likely to fail at the same time. Your Vcore circuit is the typical
> two phase design popular with Athlon motherboards. And there don't seem to
> be
> too many caps associated directly with Vcore.
>
> http://www.badcaps.net/
>
> It would be more "fun" to replace them, if the motherboards were designed
> properly for easy removal. At my company, we used extra-large holes for
> capacitor
> leads, and at the time, it never occurred to me why we used them. Until
> one
> day, I needed to change out a cap on a board, and it came out easy. A
> lot of other boards (like at a second company I worked at), use
> "interference
> fit" holes, where the leg of the capacitor is basically jammed into the
> hole.
> Those are the devil to remove. Even with a vacuum de-soldering station, I
> had
> to say many swear words to get one out. And I had a few of them to do.
> With home tools, dealing with that kind of crap, would be no fun at all.
>
> You can take the "brute force" approach, and cut away the cap from the
> top,
> leaving the spindly two legs standing there. But the problem with using a
> lot of force during the repair, is the danger of damaging the plated
> holes, ripping up tracks and so on. Motherboards are not fabricated,
> with those kinds of forces in mind. If you could get a hold of the lead
> from the top, where it goes into the board, you could pull on it while
> heating from the solder side, and the leads would come out easier that
> way. But man-handling the cap from the top, comes with some risk,
> and I've always tried to do them, by removing all the solder from the
> holes, and forcing them out from the back.
>
> The plated thru hole, can be ripped right out of the motherboard,
> if you use heat and force on them. I know, because I've done that (but
> while practicing on surplus circuit boards I used to buy as a kid).
> It's how I learned what a plated hole is.
>
> In this picture, you can see a "land" or pad, which may be visible
> from the top of the motherboard. In the example, the motherboard
> is five layers (which would not be considered normal). Motherboards
> are four layer, with two copper layers inside. Some motherboards were
> six layer, like RAMBUS boards, as they needed additional controlled
> impedance routing layers. There may even be a few with eight layers
> for all I know. But since the motherboard cost goes up with layer
> count, four layer would be preferred for high volume low cost
> computer motherboards. And you can rip that "thing" in the picture,
> right out of the hole, with enough force.
>
> http://lh5.ggpht.com/interfacebus.c...Qg/s800/minimum-annular-ring-enternal-pwb.jpg
>
> So now the question would boil down to, is your motherboard make and
> model available on Ebay ? And if it is, are the caps on the unit
> on Ebay, in any better shape than yours ? The "Capacitor Plague"
> affected some computing products, pretty heavily, such that certain
> Dell motherboards, you would not expect to find any good ones for
> sale (unless someone re-capped them first).
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague
>
> Paul
>
>
 
J

Jack B

Flightless Bird
Nah, normal 2 button mouse with wheel that came with the pc.

Jack

------------------------------------


"Unknown" <unknown@unknown.kom> wrote in message
news:u86HjIz2KHA.5004@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
Is it a wired mouse?
"Jack B" <jslimp01nospam@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:-ODmr2xx2KHA.1016@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> Paul,
>
> Replacing the capacitors is definitely out of my scope. Now I just need
> the
> pc to hang in there until I'm done with my project and get a new one. I
> hate to think about leaving WinXP since I feel so comfortable with it.
> I've
> gone thru Win 3.0, 3.11, 95, 98, and XP has been great. I've got a laptop
> with Windows Vista and I hate it.
>
> It still baffles me that I can do a hard shut down, and afterwards
> sometimes
> (not always) movement of the mouse turns the pc back on.
>
>
> Jack
>
> ---------------------------------------------
>
>
> "Paul" <nospam@needed.com> wrote in message
> news:hq10p2$fip$1@speranza.aioe.org...
> Jack B wrote:
>> Ok, Everest identifies the cpu as the one at TEMPN1 and currently at 53
>> Cº -- the MOBO is at 42 Cº and the Aux is at 82º. However, the Aux could
>> be
>> a bogus read or one that is not relevant. The cpu fan is at 5625 rpm and
>> the ps is at 2446 rpm.
>>
>> Additional research indicates that the capacitors on the MOBO may be
>> going
>> on the fritz per the way they look in the photos in the above post.
>>
>>
>> Jack
>>
>
> That is exactly what I was about to ask you next :-( I noticed
> the discoloration in this photo.
>
> http://www.leveragegame.com/HPIM7894r-782x585.jpg
>
> The one in the center, with the orange goo on top, looks ripe.
> The "lines" on the cap, are stamped in the metal, to form a
> pressure relief valve. If the cap starts to fail, and gas builds
> up inside, the stamp marks crack open. Then the liquid can ooze
> out.
>
> Vcore will be unstable, especially when there are so few output caps
> in your circuit, and one of them has failed for sure. It is easy to
> get crashes with the caps like that.
>
> I had an ATX power supply that failed like that, and I got some
> orange-rust colored deposits on the top of four output side caps.
>
> There are web sites, that sell replacement capacitor kits, but you'd
> have to be a died-in-the-wool hardware repair person, to do the repair
> yourself.
> The thing is, with caps, you have to replace whole sets of them. As
> they're likely to fail at the same time. Your Vcore circuit is the typical
> two phase design popular with Athlon motherboards. And there don't seem to
> be
> too many caps associated directly with Vcore.
>
> http://www.badcaps.net/
>
> It would be more "fun" to replace them, if the motherboards were designed
> properly for easy removal. At my company, we used extra-large holes for
> capacitor
> leads, and at the time, it never occurred to me why we used them. Until
> one
> day, I needed to change out a cap on a board, and it came out easy. A
> lot of other boards (like at a second company I worked at), use
> "interference
> fit" holes, where the leg of the capacitor is basically jammed into the
> hole.
> Those are the devil to remove. Even with a vacuum de-soldering station, I
> had
> to say many swear words to get one out. And I had a few of them to do.
> With home tools, dealing with that kind of crap, would be no fun at all.
>
> You can take the "brute force" approach, and cut away the cap from the
> top,
> leaving the spindly two legs standing there. But the problem with using a
> lot of force during the repair, is the danger of damaging the plated
> holes, ripping up tracks and so on. Motherboards are not fabricated,
> with those kinds of forces in mind. If you could get a hold of the lead
> from the top, where it goes into the board, you could pull on it while
> heating from the solder side, and the leads would come out easier that
> way. But man-handling the cap from the top, comes with some risk,
> and I've always tried to do them, by removing all the solder from the
> holes, and forcing them out from the back.
>
> The plated thru hole, can be ripped right out of the motherboard,
> if you use heat and force on them. I know, because I've done that (but
> while practicing on surplus circuit boards I used to buy as a kid).
> It's how I learned what a plated hole is.
>
> In this picture, you can see a "land" or pad, which may be visible
> from the top of the motherboard. In the example, the motherboard
> is five layers (which would not be considered normal). Motherboards
> are four layer, with two copper layers inside. Some motherboards were
> six layer, like RAMBUS boards, as they needed additional controlled
> impedance routing layers. There may even be a few with eight layers
> for all I know. But since the motherboard cost goes up with layer
> count, four layer would be preferred for high volume low cost
> computer motherboards. And you can rip that "thing" in the picture,
> right out of the hole, with enough force.
>
> http://lh5.ggpht.com/interfacebus.c...Qg/s800/minimum-annular-ring-enternal-pwb.jpg
>
> So now the question would boil down to, is your motherboard make and
> model available on Ebay ? And if it is, are the caps on the unit
> on Ebay, in any better shape than yours ? The "Capacitor Plague"
> affected some computing products, pretty heavily, such that certain
> Dell motherboards, you would not expect to find any good ones for
> sale (unless someone re-capped them first).
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague
>
> Paul
>
>
 
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