1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

movement of mouse turns on pc

Discussion in 'Windows XP' started by Jack B, Apr 9, 2010.

  1. Jack B

    Jack B Flightless Bird

    I thought I licked my pc crash problem, but apparently not.

    The pc locks up and I need to give it a hard shut down.

    But if I move the mouse afterwards, the pc powers on just as if I pushed the
    power on button! Does this give anyone a clue as to what the problem is?

    Jack
     
  2. Richard in AZ

    Richard in AZ Flightless Bird

    Define "hard Shut down". Sounds like you have the power-on button set to put the computer to
    sleep.
    Check settings in the Power applet in the control panel. Is the computer a laptop? or Desktop?

    "Jack B" <jslimp01nospam@earthlink.net> wrote in message
    news:%23JyyljF2KHA.5880@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
    >I thought I licked my pc crash problem, but apparently not.
    >
    > The pc locks up and I need to give it a hard shut down.
    >
    > But if I move the mouse afterwards, the pc powers on just as if I pushed the
    > power on button! Does this give anyone a clue as to what the problem is?
    >
    > Jack
    >
    >
     
  3. Paul

    Paul Flightless Bird

    Jack B wrote:
    > I thought I licked my pc crash problem, but apparently not.
    >
    > The pc locks up and I need to give it a hard shut down.
    >
    > But if I move the mouse afterwards, the pc powers on just as if I pushed the
    > power on button! Does this give anyone a clue as to what the problem is?
    >
    > Jack
    >


    Finding the source of freezing, is not easy. There is no test that
    says "Aha. The reason for freezing, is a broken gizmo.". You might
    find it by trial and error. For example, try a clean install of WinXP
    on a brand new disk. Does the PC freeze now ? If it doesn't freeze,
    you might conclude there was a software component to the problem.

    If you don't like that option, booting with a Linux LiveCD like
    Knoppix or Ubuntu, can be used for a freezing test case.

    Computers have power saving features, such as Intel SpeedStep (EIST)
    and AMD Cool N' Quiet. The processor is operated at a reduced
    voltage and frequency, when it is idle. There is a remote chance,
    that the processor is not stable at one of the extremes of that
    kind of adjustment. By using the "Power" control panel and
    changing the power scheme to "Always ON", you can experiment
    with operating the CPU at the highest setting all the time.
    If you get more stability, then you might just leave it that
    way.

    While bad RAM could cause problems, it is just as likely to
    promote a crash (BSOD) as a freeze, so I'm not confident that
    changing the RAM configuration, trying different RAM etc., will
    help.

    *******

    In the computer BIOS, there will be options for how to "wake"
    the computer. One of my systems here, has an option for any
    key pressed on the keyboard to wake it. There could be
    "wake on PS/2", "wake on USB", "wake on LAN", "enable PME" and
    the like items in one particular BIOS screen. One of those
    could be responsible for the computer responding when you
    move the mouse.

    To stop that on one of my computers, I changed the power option
    for the mouse and keyboard, from +5VSB to +5V. Making that change,
    ensures the keyboard and mouse are only powered when the computer
    is running. On that computer, there was a jumper plug on the motherboard
    that controls the selection. By making that change to the jumper, the
    keyboard and mouse can no longer wake the computer, no matter what
    other settings are used.

    Modern systems have removed that jumper option, and many computers
    now run the interfaces with +5VSB. As a result, between the BIOS
    and the OS, you have to figure out a way to stop the waking via
    software. For example, if you look at the Device Manager entry for
    your keyboard, maybe there is an option in there that controls it.

    "Allow this device to bring the computer out of standby"

    Perhaps stopping it, will be as easy as unticking the box for
    that option, in the Keyboard or Mouse entry in the Device Manager.

    HTH,
    Paul
     
  4. Jose

    Jose Flightless Bird

    On Apr 9, 10:52 pm, "Jack B" <jslimp01nos...@earthlink.net> wrote:
    > I thought I licked my pc crash problem, but apparently not.
    >
    > The pc locks up and I need to give it a hard shut down.
    >
    > But if I move the mouse afterwards, the pc powers on just as if I pushed the
    > power on button!  Does this give anyone a clue as to what the problem is?
    >
    > Jack


    "A crash problem" is pretty general and offers few details and crash
    does not mean the same thing to different people.

    When you invoke your "hard shut down" does that mean you use the power
    button? Keep that up and things will get worse, but sometimes that is
    what you gotta do.

    Does move the mouse mean click the mouse or does it really mean move
    the mouse?

    I am not sure how it is possible to provide information (other than
    guesses) about your BIOS features unless we know what your BIOS is.
    If you want to see if your system BIOS has some feature that allows
    the computer to power up fro the mouse, we can help look at your
    documentation for your system if you provide the following
    information:

    Please provide additional information about your system:

    Click Start, Run and in the box enter:

    msinfo32

    Click OK, and when the System Summary info appears, click Edit, Select
    All, Copy and then paste the information back here.

    There will be some personal information (like System Name and User
    Name), and whatever appears to be private information to you, just
    delete it from the pasted information.

    This will minimize back and forth Q&A and eliminate guesswork.

    Of course you have run decent malware scans?

    Reduce the chances of malicious software by running some scans.

    Download, install, update and do a full scan with these free malware
    detection programs:

    Malwarebytes (MBAM): http://malwarebytes.org/
    SUPERAntiSpyware: (SAS): http://www.superantispyware.com/

    These can be uninstalled later if desired.

    If you want to run a RAM test, it may help you to know how:

    Run a test of your RAM with memtest86+ (I know it is boring and will
    cost you a CD).

    Memtest86+ is a more up to date version of the old memtest program and
    they are not the same.

    The memtest86+ will not run under Windows, so you will need to
    download the ISO file and create a bootable CD, boot on that and then
    run the memtest86+ program.

    If even a single error is reported that is a failure and should make
    you suspicious of your RAM.

    If you have multiple sticks of RAM you may need to run the test on
    them one at a time and change them out to isolate the failure to a
    particular single stick. Always keep at least the first bank of RAM
    occupied so the test will find something to do and there is enough to
    boot your system.

    Sometimes, reseating the RAM in the slots will relieve the error but a
    failure is still cause for suspicion.

    The file and instructions are here:

    http://www.memtest.org/

    If someone says to run memtest86, you can say that you know memtest86+
    supercedes memtest86 and here's why:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memtest86


    Let' say you boot on a Linux or PE CD and your system doesn't freeze.
    What do you do now to figure out why XP freezes? You are truing to
    figure out why it freezes in XP - not why it doesn't freeze with
    Linux. I think the more often it freezes in XP, the happier you
    should be because it will be easier it is to find the problem.

    There is a way to get to a point to be able to say - Aha the reason
    for freezing is...

    MS has a built in feature built in feature (normally disabled) that is
    designed specifically to help debug systems that lock up. This will
    make it easy to spot the problem and achieve the "this is the broken
    gizmo" information you need to fix it.

    It is not a mystery, no trial and error, no might be, no could be, no
    guessing. There is a reason for the lock up or hang and you can find
    out what is going on and focus your attention in that area. Figure it
    out and fix it.

    Here is more standard copy/paste:

    If your system stops responding, hangs or freezes and you can't figure
    out why, you can force a BSOD which will create a crash dump file that
    you can analyze and see what is running at the point of the freeze and
    get some ideas that do not involve guesswork. It is good to create a
    few crash dumps if you can and analyze them for a patter - maybe a
    certain driver or program that is in every crash dump.

    While it may seem odd to think about purposefully causing a Blue
    Screen Of Death (BSOD), Microsoft includes such a provision in Windows
    XP. The feature is built in to XP specifically to diagnose the problem
    when a system stops responding and there is no trail in any of the
    Event Logs, etc. about what might have happened.

    Here's how to force your system to create a BSOD:

    Before making registry changes, backup your registry with this popular
    free and easy to use tool:

    http://www.larshederer.homepage.t-online.de/erunt/

    For PS/2 keyboards, launch the Registry Editor (Regedit.exe) and
    navigate to:

    HKLM\System\CurrentControlSet\Services\i8042prt\Parameters

    For USB keyboards (it is a rumor to me so far):

    HKLM\System\CurrentControlSet\Services\kbdhid\Parameters

    Click Edit, select New DWORD Value and name the new value
    CrashOnCtrlScroll.

    Double-click the CrashOnCtrlScroll DWORD Value, type 1 in the Value
    Data text box, and click OK.

    Close the Registry Editor and restart Windows XP.

    When you want to cause a BSOD (when your system has stopped
    responding), press and hold down the [Ctrl] key on the right side of
    your keyboard, and then tap the [ScrollLock] key twice. Now you should
    see the BSOD and you will have a crash dump file to analyze.

    In just a few minutes after the next incident, you will know exactly
    what the problem is and where to start looking.

    If you decide to pursue this debugging method, we can teach you how to
    analyze the crash dump to spot your particular issue.

    Here is an FYI MS article about this feature:

    http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ff545499.aspx
     
  5. Jack B

    Jack B Flightless Bird

    Thanks guys -- a lot of info. I'll need to work on it. BTW, I've switched
    CPUs with no different results.

    Just for the record, NO, the machine was not merely sleeping. It was a
    hard, 3 second, push-the-button power off shut down. It is incredible that
    movement of the mouse afterwards actually turned the machine back on, with a
    boot-up and the check disk routine it goes thru after a hard shut down.

    The pc has been super stable ever since I bought back in 2001, until
    recently. Obviously, it is getting on in years and I should replace it.
    However, I don't want to go thru that hassle until I complete a project that
    should be done in the next 2 weeks. And that's the rub -- Do I (1) take
    time to try and fix the pc, (2) just hope it will keep going till I'm done
    with my project, or (3) take time to buy a new pc and learn a new operating
    system and repopulate the pc with the programs I need etc. I'm pressed for
    time and need the next stage of my project done in the next 5 days.

    When I say the pc is crashing, I mean total lock up -- no BSOD, just total
    freeze -- it doesn't respond to anything -- no mouse movement, no
    CTL-ALT-DEL, nothing.

    Here is the pc info:

    OS Name Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition
    Version 5.1.2600 Service Pack 3 Build 2600
    OS Manufacturer Microsoft Corporation
    System Name .........
    System Manufacturer SNC302EEH
    System Model VIA_K7
    System Type X86-based PC
    Processor x86 Family 6 Model 6 Stepping 2 AuthenticAMD ~1466 Mhz
    BIOS Version/Date American Megatrends Inc. 062710, 10/8/2001
    SMBIOS Version 2.3
    Windows Directory C:/WINDOWS
    System Directory C:/WINDOWS\system32
    Boot Device \Device\HarddiskVolume1
    Locale United States
    Hardware Abstraction Layer Version = "5.1.2600.5512 (xpsp.080413-2111)"
    User Name .............
    Time Zone Eastern Daylight Time
    Total Physical Memory 1,536.00 MB
    Available Physical Memory 1.00 GB
    Total Virtual Memory 2.00 GB
    Available Virtual Memory 1.96 GB
    Page File Space 2.11 GB
    Page File C:/pagefile.sys


    Thanks,
    Jack
     
  6. Paul

    Paul Flightless Bird

    Jack B wrote:
    > Thanks guys -- a lot of info. I'll need to work on it. BTW, I've switched
    > CPUs with no different results.
    >
    > Just for the record, NO, the machine was not merely sleeping. It was a
    > hard, 3 second, push-the-button power off shut down. It is incredible that
    > movement of the mouse afterwards actually turned the machine back on, with a
    > boot-up and the check disk routine it goes thru after a hard shut down.
    >
    > The pc has been super stable ever since I bought back in 2001, until
    > recently. Obviously, it is getting on in years and I should replace it.
    > However, I don't want to go thru that hassle until I complete a project that
    > should be done in the next 2 weeks. And that's the rub -- Do I (1) take
    > time to try and fix the pc, (2) just hope it will keep going till I'm done
    > with my project, or (3) take time to buy a new pc and learn a new operating
    > system and repopulate the pc with the programs I need etc. I'm pressed for
    > time and need the next stage of my project done in the next 5 days.
    >
    > When I say the pc is crashing, I mean total lock up -- no BSOD, just total
    > freeze -- it doesn't respond to anything -- no mouse movement, no
    > CTL-ALT-DEL, nothing.
    >
    > Here is the pc info:
    >
    > OS Name Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition
    > Version 5.1.2600 Service Pack 3 Build 2600
    > OS Manufacturer Microsoft Corporation
    > System Name .........
    > System Manufacturer SNC302EEH
    > System Model VIA_K7
    > System Type X86-based PC
    > Processor x86 Family 6 Model 6 Stepping 2 AuthenticAMD ~1466 Mhz
    > BIOS Version/Date American Megatrends Inc. 062710, 10/8/2001
    > SMBIOS Version 2.3
    > Windows Directory C:/WINDOWS
    > System Directory C:/WINDOWS\system32
    > Boot Device \Device\HarddiskVolume1
    > Locale United States
    > Hardware Abstraction Layer Version = "5.1.2600.5512 (xpsp.080413-2111)"
    > User Name .............
    > Time Zone Eastern Daylight Time
    > Total Physical Memory 1,536.00 MB
    > Available Physical Memory 1.00 GB
    > Total Virtual Memory 2.00 GB
    > Available Virtual Memory 1.96 GB
    > Page File Space 2.11 GB
    > Page File C:/pagefile.sys
    >
    >
    > Thanks,
    > Jack


    Do you have the ability to check the processor temperature ?

    If there is a temperature readout, perhaps Speedfan can read it.
    For an Athlon or AthlonXP, you'd generally want to stay below 65C.
    The Athlon has a relatively small die, which makes coupling of
    the CPU heatsink to the silicon die, important for good cooling.

    http://www.almico.com/speedfan440.exe

    On some freezing cases, you may find that the computer is not
    actually frozen. I've had computers, where the keyboard and screen
    are unresponsive, but it is just the interface part of the software
    that stops working. If you go to a second computer, and use
    the ping command, you can test to see whether the frozen computer
    can respond to a ping packet. I've had computers I thought were
    frozen, only to find they were actually alive inside.

    ping 192.168.100.23

    where the IP address would be the address of the computer that
    is frozen. If you're using a home router, it may be a little
    difficult to figure out the exact IP address if the router is
    using DHCP.

    Just out of curiosity, why is "Total Physical Memory 1,536.00 MB"
    and "Available Physical Memory 1.00 GB". Have some built-in
    (chipset) graphics been assigned 512MB of memory ? Perhaps you
    can lower that setting a little bit. Enter the BIOS and check
    to see how it is set. Some BIOS will have settings for integrated
    graphics, where the memory allocation is adjustable.

    Whether your problem needs to be fixed instantly, will depend on
    the freeze frequency, and whether the things you're doing on the
    computer, have autosave, so no work is lost. A good autosave feature
    would reduce work loss to perhaps 5 minutes worth.

    Paul
     
  7. mm

    mm Flightless Bird

    On Fri, 9 Apr 2010 20:17:10 -0700, "Richard in AZ" <me@mailinator.com>
    wrote:

    >Define "hard Shut down".


    >Sounds like you have the power-on button set to put the computer to
    >sleep. >Check settings in the Power applet in the control panel.


    Re-grouped. This is what it sounds like to me too. What happens if
    before it freezes a) you put your computer in standby. Does it start
    the same, with the mouse? b) you shut off the computer the proper
    way, Start/Turn off/ turn off, before it freezes. Does the mouse do
    anything then?

    It sounds like this is normal for the settigns you have. So it's no
    clue. Why your computer freezes is another story. You have to pay
    close attention to what you're doing. In win98 I would freeze if I
    had too many firefox tabs open, more than 20. In XP on the same
    computer, I coudl go over 60 and still didn't have a freeze for that
    reason.


    >Is the computer a laptop? or Desktop?
    >
    >"Jack B" <jslimp01nospam@earthlink.net> wrote in message
    >news:%23JyyljF2KHA.5880@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
    >>I thought I licked my pc crash problem, but apparently not.
    >>
    >> The pc locks up and I need to give it a hard shut down.
    >>
    >> But if I move the mouse afterwards, the pc powers on just as if I pushed the
    >> power on button! Does this give anyone a clue as to what the problem is?
    >>
    >> Jack
    >>
    >>

    >



    --
    Posters should say what U,S. state they live in. Why do
    so many keep their state as secret as their own name?
     
  8. Jack B

    Jack B Flightless Bird

    Paul,

    >why is "Total Physical Memory 1,536.00 MB"

    and "Available Physical Memory 1.00 GB". Have some built-in
    (chipset) graphics been assigned 512MB of memory<

    Interesting question. There are 3 RAM slots. The pc cam with 2 256 MB chips.
    Later I added a 1 GB chip in the 3rd slot.


    >Do you have the ability to check the processor temperature?<

    Do you mean does the pc have the capability? I don't know; is there a way
    to find out?

    >On some freezing cases, you may find that the computer is not actually
    >frozen.<

    Well, one freeze I got was different than the rest -- it was running fine
    when I left to do other things, but when I came back to the pc the screen
    was black, and as usual there was no response. Using another pc on the LAN,
    I tried to find the share folder on this pc, but that pc could not read this
    frozen one.

    So far today, the pc has not failed -- knock on wood.


    Jack

    --------------------------------------------------


    Do you have the ability to check the processor temperature ?

    If there is a temperature readout, perhaps Speedfan can read it.
    For an Athlon or AthlonXP, you'd generally want to stay below 65C.
    The Athlon has a relatively small die, which makes coupling of
    the CPU heatsink to the silicon die, important for good cooling.

    http://www.almico.com/speedfan440.exe

    On some freezing cases, you may find that the computer is not
    actually frozen. I've had computers, where the keyboard and screen
    are unresponsive, but it is just the interface part of the software
    that stops working. If you go to a second computer, and use
    the ping command, you can test to see whether the frozen computer
    can respond to a ping packet. I've had computers I thought were
    frozen, only to find they were actually alive inside.

    ping 192.168.100.23

    where the IP address would be the address of the computer that
    is frozen. If you're using a home router, it may be a little
    difficult to figure out the exact IP address if the router is
    using DHCP.

    Just out of curiosity, why is "Total Physical Memory 1,536.00 MB"
    and "Available Physical Memory 1.00 GB". Have some built-in
    (chipset) graphics been assigned 512MB of memory ? Perhaps you
    can lower that setting a little bit. Enter the BIOS and check
    to see how it is set. Some BIOS will have settings for integrated
    graphics, where the memory allocation is adjustable.

    Whether your problem needs to be fixed instantly, will depend on
    the freeze frequency, and whether the things you're doing on the
    computer, have autosave, so no work is lost. A good autosave feature
    would reduce work loss to perhaps 5 minutes worth.

    Paul
     
  9. Ken Blake, MVP

    Ken Blake, MVP Flightless Bird

    On Sat, 10 Apr 2010 14:17:40 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.com> wrote:


    > Just out of curiosity, why is "Total Physical Memory 1,536.00 MB"
    > and "Available Physical Memory 1.00 GB". Have some built-in
    > (chipset) graphics been assigned 512MB of memory ?




    No, that's not what it means. Total Physical Memory is the amount of
    RAM installed. Available Physical Memory is Total Physical Memory
    minus the amount currently in use. At the time the above statistic was
    presented, he was using about 512MB.

    --
    Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP (Windows Desktop Experience) since 2003
    Please Reply to the Newsgroup
     
  10. Jose

    Jose Flightless Bird

    On Apr 10, 11:18 am, "Jack B" <jslimp01nos...@earthlink.net> wrote:
    > Thanks guys -- a lot of info.  I'll need to work on it.  BTW, I've switched
    > CPUs with no different results.
    >
    > Just for the record, NO, the machine was not merely sleeping.  It was a
    > hard, 3 second, push-the-button power off shut down.  It is incredible that
    > movement of the mouse afterwards actually turned the machine back on, with a
    > boot-up and the check disk routine it goes thru after a hard shut down.
    >
    > The pc has been super stable ever since I bought back in 2001, until
    > recently.  Obviously, it is getting on in years and I should replace it..
    > However, I don't want to go thru that hassle until I complete a project that
    > should be done in the next 2 weeks.  And that's the rub -- Do I (1) take
    > time to try and fix the pc, (2) just hope it will keep going till I'm done
    > with my project, or (3) take time to buy a new pc and learn a new operating
    > system and repopulate the pc with the programs I need etc.  I'm pressedfor
    > time and need the next stage of my project done in the next 5 days.
    >
    > When I say the pc is crashing, I mean total lock up -- no BSOD, just total
    > freeze -- it doesn't respond to anything -- no mouse movement, no
    > CTL-ALT-DEL, nothing.
    >
    > Here is the pc info:
    >
    > OS Name Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition
    > Version 5.1.2600 Service Pack 3 Build 2600
    > OS Manufacturer Microsoft Corporation
    > System Name .........
    > System Manufacturer SNC302EEH
    > System Model VIA_K7
    > System Type X86-based PC
    > Processor x86 Family 6 Model 6 Stepping 2 AuthenticAMD ~1466 Mhz
    > BIOS Version/Date American Megatrends Inc. 062710, 10/8/2001
    > SMBIOS Version 2.3
    > Windows Directory C:/WINDOWS
    > System Directory C:/WINDOWS\system32
    > Boot Device \Device\HarddiskVolume1
    > Locale United States
    > Hardware Abstraction Layer Version = "5.1.2600.5512 (xpsp.080413-2111)"
    > User Name .............
    > Time Zone Eastern Daylight Time
    > Total Physical Memory 1,536.00 MB
    > Available Physical Memory 1.00 GB
    > Total Virtual Memory 2.00 GB
    > Available Virtual Memory 1.96 GB
    > Page File Space 2.11 GB
    > Page File C:/pagefile.sys
    >
    > Thanks,
    > Jack


    You can figure out why it is locking up if you want to pursue it.

    Just because your system appears "frozen" or "locked up" does not mean
    XP is not still running. This is one of the reasons the ability to
    force a BSOD to see what is running when it is locked up is so
    helpful.

    If XP was really, really hung and off into space and not running, it
    would not be able to interpret that particular key sequence and then
    execute a graceful memory dump. XP is still running, it is just not
    responding to your input or updating your monitor or whatever you
    think it is supposed to be doing.

    Mark Russinovich, author of many helpful Microsoft Sysinternals tools
    like Process Explorer, Autoruns, etc, says in one of his many
    technical blogs (with video) regarding effective Microsoft OS
    troubleshooting, making that adjustment in XP is just about the first
    thing he does when he gets a new system so that if/when it ever hangs
    on him, he will be able to have XP perform a memory dump, examine the
    dump and quickly figure out the problem. There will be no guessing
    about what it might be - you will know. (I wonder if he really does
    that or not). I would say that is why this valuable feature was
    invented but I am not sure.

    You don't need to ping the box, but you can of course - if it is on a
    network and you know the IP address and let's say you could figure all
    that stuff out and it does respond to a ping. What would you do next
    to figure out what the problem is?

    What do you have selected in Power options for:

    When I press the power button on my computer?

    If XP is behaving as configured when you press the power button, it is
    obvious XP is still running and paying attention to the power button -
    it is just not paying attention to you. Stand By perhaps? Of course
    XP will not be happy if it is unable to conduct it's business properly
    when you press the power button, hence the chkdsk on restart. So far,
    everything makes good sense.

    Your msinfo32 info looks fine to me. You can learn a lot about a
    system with just one query and a good response. None of this - what
    is your OS, Home or Pro, what is your SP, how much RAM do you have,
    laptop or desktop, what is your motherboard, what is your BIOS...
    Zzzzzz.

    Now that you know all about the CPU, you can look it up to see what
    kind of temperature readings it puts out, what the limits are, what
    sotware you need to download to get the most information out of what
    you have, etc. But when it hangs, any temperature measuring software
    you choose will probably not be accessible either, right?
     
  11. mm

    mm Flightless Bird

    On Sat, 10 Apr 2010 15:12:06 -0400, "Jack B"
    <jslimp01nospam@earthlink.net> wrote:

    >
    >>Do you have the ability to check the processor temperature?<

    >Do you mean does the pc have the capability? I don't know; is there a way
    >to find out?


    Good question. I have an Asus mobo and use AsusProbe2, which I might
    have gotten off the Asus mobo CD, but which I also see on the web for
    download. Will it work with any mobo, some mobos, or only Asus mobos?
    At any rate, there is no harm in finding it and trying it. The
    regular install didn't put it in the startup folder so you'll have to
    do that yourself.

    It also shows the temperatures in the BIOS screens, and I don't think
    that requires any added software, but one can't spent his whoe life in
    the bios.

    IME, overheating the CPU would cause the computer to freeze, or slow
    down, and when I pressed the hardware restart button, it wouldn't even
    get past the memory check. I'm sure there are reasons yours could
    work much differently, but I don't think anyone has said yet that
    overheating is an esppecially likely reason for your problem.
    >
    >>On some freezing cases, you may find that the computer is not actually
    >>frozen.<

    >Well, one freeze I got was different than the rest -- it was running fine
    >when I left to do other things, but when I came back to the pc the screen
    >was black, and as usual there was no response. Using another pc on the LAN,
    >I tried to find the share folder on this pc, but that pc could not read this
    >frozen one.


    >So far today, the pc has not failed -- knock on wood.


    I had a wooden computer once. It ran on steam, so it was hard to deal
    with in the summer time.

    >
    >Jack



    --
    Posters should say what U,S. state they live in. Why do
    so many keep their state as secret as their own name?
     
  12. glee

    glee Flightless Bird

    "Jack B" <jslimp01nospam@earthlink.net> wrote in message
    news:%23JyyljF2KHA.5880@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
    >I thought I licked my pc crash problem, but apparently not.
    >
    > The pc locks up and I need to give it a hard shut down.
    >
    > But if I move the mouse afterwards, the pc powers on just as if I
    > pushed the
    > power on button! Does this give anyone a clue as to what the problem
    > is?


    Not enough info about the crashing...I'll look at your later replies to
    see if you supply any useful info....but as far as the "start up with
    mouse" symptom, on some newer systems there is a BIOS Setup option (it
    would be in the Power Management section of the BIOS, IIRC) to start the
    computer when you move the mouse. Check your BIOS settings if you want
    to change it.
    --
    Glen Ventura, MS MVP Oct. 2002 - Sept. 2009
    A+
    http://dts-l.net/
     
  13. Jack B

    Jack B Flightless Bird

    Update.

    Using Malwarebytes, 3 malicious items were found and deleted:
    Registry Data Items Infected:
    HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Security Center\AntiVirusDisableNotify
    (Disabled.SecurityCenter) -> Bad: (1) Good: (0) -> Quarantined and deleted
    successfully.
    HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Security Center\FirewallDisableNotify
    (Disabled.SecurityCenter) -> Bad: (1) Good: (0) -> Quarantined and deleted
    successfully.
    HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Security Center\UpdatesDisableNotify
    (Disabled.SecurityCenter) -> Bad: (1) Good: (0) -> Quarantined and deleted
    successfully.


    That was using a Quick Scan.

    Jack
     
  14. Paul

    Paul Flightless Bird

    mm wrote:
    > On Sat, 10 Apr 2010 15:12:06 -0400, "Jack B"
    > <jslimp01nospam@earthlink.net> wrote:
    >
    >>> Do you have the ability to check the processor temperature?<

    >> Do you mean does the pc have the capability? I don't know; is there a way
    >> to find out?

    >
    > Good question. I have an Asus mobo and use AsusProbe2, which I might
    > have gotten off the Asus mobo CD, but which I also see on the web for
    > download. Will it work with any mobo, some mobos, or only Asus mobos?
    > At any rate, there is no harm in finding it and trying it. The
    > regular install didn't put it in the startup folder so you'll have to
    > do that yourself.
    >
    > It also shows the temperatures in the BIOS screens, and I don't think
    > that requires any added software, but one can't spent his whoe life in
    > the bios.
    >
    > IME, overheating the CPU would cause the computer to freeze, or slow
    > down, and when I pressed the hardware restart button, it wouldn't even
    > get past the memory check. I'm sure there are reasons yours could
    > work much differently, but I don't think anyone has said yet that
    > overheating is an esppecially likely reason for your problem.
    >>> On some freezing cases, you may find that the computer is not actually
    >>> frozen.<

    >> Well, one freeze I got was different than the rest -- it was running fine
    >> when I left to do other things, but when I came back to the pc the screen
    >> was black, and as usual there was no response. Using another pc on the LAN,
    >> I tried to find the share folder on this pc, but that pc could not read this
    >> frozen one.

    >
    >> So far today, the pc has not failed -- knock on wood.

    >
    > I had a wooden computer once. It ran on steam, so it was hard to deal
    > with in the summer time.
    >
    >> Jack


    We know a few things about his computer. It has an Athlon processor,
    socket 462 (based on his 1466MHz core frequency).

    K7 CPUs.
    http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/K7/index.html

    *******
    XP Model 8 (Thoroughbred CPU ID 0680)

    1467 (1700+) OPGA 133 256 11x 1.60V 90oC 55.7W

    Model 8 (Thoroughbred CPU ID 0680)

    1467 (1700+) OPGA 133 256 11x 1.50V 90oC 44.9W

    Model 6 (Palomino)

    1467 (1700+) OPGA 133 256 11x 1.75V 90oC 57.4W
    *******

    Based on the Family code 662, it is the last one, a Palomino 1700+.
    (Click the CPU ID tab on this page, to see the "662" value.)

    http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/K7/AMD-Athlon XP 1700+ - AX1700DMT3C.html

    Some of the earliest S462 motherboards, didn't have overtemperature
    protection that was guaranteed to work. That would be things of the VIA
    "KT133" vintage. So you'd want to be careful, to occasionally
    check how hot the CPU is running. Especially if getting a freezing
    symptom.

    The S462 processors have a bare silicon die on top, and you have to be
    careful when cleaning and reapplying thermal paste to the silicon die.
    Some processors have four rubber "bumps" pasted to the top of the CPU
    packaging, and the rubber bumps help prevent the heatsink from being
    mounted on an angle. That prevents cracking the edges off the bare
    silicon die. Another technique used, is a "shim" which surrounds the
    die and does the same kind of thing.

    http://www.arcticsilver.com/pdf/appmeth/amd/ss/AMD_app_method_surface_spread_v1.1.pdf

    In some cases, it can be mechanically difficult to disassemble the thing,
    and the heatsink can get "welded" to the die. And since there is no
    metal heatspreader cover on the processor, you can't apply too much
    force to it. The recommended removal method, is to run the computer
    (to warm up the CPU first), turn off the computer and immediately attempt
    to remove the heatsink while it is still warm.

    When you get the thing apart, sometimes the CPU silicon die is discolored
    and looks "cooked". Don't let that bother you, and just keep using it,
    until it croaks :)

    If that was my Athlon, I'd already have it apart by now, and reapply the
    paste. But we'll let Jack take a few measurements first, to see what
    shape he's in. If his processor is cool (below 65C or 149F), there is
    no reason to panic. And Speedfan should be able to find some sensor
    on there. Even if a motherboard doesn't have overtemperature protection,
    it is still likely to have a socket temperature readout. The sensing
    methods are either a thermistor under the socket, or on the later processors,
    the thermal diode inside the silicon die itself. The latter gives a higher
    reading, as it is right where the heat is generated. With the thermistor,
    programs like Asus Probe, would "pad" the numbers to approximate the
    correct values. Sometimes an offset is required, to give realistic
    sounding values for a thermistor. The BIOS could have padding applied
    to its values as well, so it should give a realistic value (in the
    Hardware Monitor BIOS section).

    I have a (retired) AthlonXP here, but never had any trouble keeping
    it cool. I may have applied paste to it once, during initial installation,
    and reapplied paste half way through its life. When you apply paste,
    you take temperature readings once the system is running again.
    If it read out as 43C say, you'd wait until some years later,
    under *identical* test conditions it was hitting 53C. Then, take
    it apart and apply the thermal paste to it again. (Identical test
    conditions, includes the tiny details about room temperature. If
    it is a hot summer day, naturally the temperature reading will be
    offset by the rise in room temp. So you'd take that into consideration
    as well. If your room is 10C hotter in summer, the threshold would
    be a 20C shift.)

    Paul
     
  15. Terry R.

    Terry R. Flightless Bird

    On 4/10/2010 9:36 PM On a whim, Jack B pounded out on the keyboard

    > Update.
    >
    > Using Malwarebytes, 3 malicious items were found and deleted:
    > Registry Data Items Infected:
    > HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Security Center\AntiVirusDisableNotify
    > (Disabled.SecurityCenter) -> Bad: (1) Good: (0) -> Quarantined and deleted
    > successfully.
    > HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Security Center\FirewallDisableNotify
    > (Disabled.SecurityCenter) -> Bad: (1) Good: (0) -> Quarantined and deleted
    > successfully.
    > HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Security Center\UpdatesDisableNotify
    > (Disabled.SecurityCenter) -> Bad: (1) Good: (0) -> Quarantined and deleted
    > successfully.
    >
    >
    > That was using a Quick Scan.
    >
    > Jack
    >
    >
    >


    Hi Jack,

    Those were most likely choices that you selected and Malwarebytes thinks
    it might be malware that changed the settings.

    I would also remove any external devices when t-shooting this issue. I
    had a workstation that randomly froze that took over a year to figure
    out. I finally found out it was a USB modem plugged into a USB hub that
    caused the freezing. It was the last thing I would have thought to have
    caused this type is issue. Plugging the modem into a port off the MB
    and not the hub resolved it.



    Terry R.
    --
    Anti-spam measures are included in my email address.
    Delete NOSPAM from the email address after clicking Reply.
     
  16. Jose

    Jose Flightless Bird

    On Apr 11, 12:36 am, "Jack B" <jslimp01nos...@earthlink.net> wrote:
    > Update.
    >
    > Using Malwarebytes, 3 malicious items were found and deleted:
    > Registry Data Items Infected:
    > HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Security Center\AntiVirusDisableNotify
    > (Disabled.SecurityCenter) -> Bad: (1) Good: (0) -> Quarantined and deleted
    > successfully.
    > HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Security Center\FirewallDisableNotify
    > (Disabled.SecurityCenter) -> Bad: (1) Good: (0) -> Quarantined and deleted
    > successfully.
    > HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Security Center\UpdatesDisableNotify
    > (Disabled.SecurityCenter) -> Bad: (1) Good: (0) -> Quarantined and deleted
    > successfully.
    >
    > That was using a Quick Scan.
    >
    > Jack


    That has nothing to do with the problem you stated.

    MBAM is telling you that the default Windows Security Center Alert
    Settings (of which there are 3) have been disabled.

    The XP default settings for Firewall, Automatic Updates, Virus
    Protection is enabled. Something (usually a human) has unchecked the
    boxes so that you will not receive the information messages designed
    to help you.

    Example: Some folks don't like to have Automatic Updates enabled so
    they turn AU off. XP will remind you constantly that AU has been
    disabled with a pop up message. This is annoying. Disabling the
    Security Center Alert Settings in XP stops the reminder message.
    MBAM see this potentially undesirable situation and presents them to
    you in a scan as an infected item and give you a chance to fix it. If
    you let MBAM fix it, it will enable the warnings again.

    MBAM does not know and can't tell if you turned the alerts off or some
    malicious software has been messing around with your settings, but it
    is potentially very risky. MBAM shows you and asks what you want to
    do about it even offering to fix them for you. The information is in
    the registry as you can see. If you are sure you don't want those
    features, you can also tell MBAM to ignore/accept those things and not
    consider them a threat on future scans. Nothing will really be
    "quarantined and deleted". MBAM will fix your settings if you allow
    it.

    I have never seen malicious software disable those settings (it is
    always from the hand of a human being), but I suppose it is possible
    and you should be glad that MBAM notices this and tells you about
    it.

    Perhaps someday the MBAM message could be changed somehow to make more
    sense since it is really not an infected item - it is a configuration
    change, but it is telling you exactly what it finds and allowing you
    to fix it if you want. MBAM is doing it's job.

    It looks like you might be getting off in the weeds a bit with your
    original problem and are not getting closer to resolving your issue.
     
  17. glee

    glee Flightless Bird

    "Jose" <jose_ease@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:1cbde773-b128-4880-8fd1-55c9a12196c2@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...
    On Apr 11, 12:36 am, "Jack B" <jslimp01nos...@earthlink.net> wrote:
    >> Update.
    >>
    >> Using Malwarebytes, 3 malicious items were found and deleted:
    >> Registry Data Items Infected:
    >> HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Security
    >> Center\AntiVirusDisableNotify
    >> (Disabled.SecurityCenter) -> Bad: (1) Good: (0) -> Quarantined and
    >> deleted
    >> successfully.
    >> HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Security
    >> Center\FirewallDisableNotify
    >> (Disabled.SecurityCenter) -> Bad: (1) Good: (0) -> Quarantined and
    >> deleted
    >> successfully.
    >> HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Security
    >> Center\UpdatesDisableNotify
    >> (Disabled.SecurityCenter) -> Bad: (1) Good: (0) -> Quarantined and
    >> deleted
    >> successfully.
    >>
    >> That was using a Quick Scan.
    >>
    >> Jack

    >
    > snip
    >I have never seen malicious software disable those settings (it is
    >always from the hand of a human being), but I suppose it is possible
    >and you should be glad that MBAM notices this and tells you about
    >it.
    > snip


    Really?! You've never seen it? There is quite a lot of malware that
    disables exactly those settings, and that is why MBAM reports it. Those
    are settings that much malware (mostly trojans) go after fairly quickly,
    to help prevent being detected and to allow easier access for itself and
    its "friends" that trojan downloaders bring in. I clean a LOT of
    infected systems, and MBAM is among my first line tools....and those
    settings changes are found in many of the logs. They are all systems
    where the user did not change any of the mentioned settings....it was
    done by the malware.
    --
    Glen Ventura, MS MVP Oct. 2002 - Sept. 2009
    A+
    http://dts-l.net/
     
  18. glee

    glee Flightless Bird

    "Jack B" <jslimp01nospam@earthlink.net> wrote in message
    news:%23JyyljF2KHA.5880@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
    >I thought I licked my pc crash problem, but apparently not.
    >
    > The pc locks up and I need to give it a hard shut down.
    >
    > But if I move the mouse afterwards, the pc powers on just as if I
    > pushed the
    > power on button! Does this give anyone a clue as to what the problem
    > is?


    I've read your other posts in this thread and there is not enough info
    to make more than guesses. Everyone thinks it is overheating....I
    don't....but again, guessing.

    Download System Information for Windows (SIW)
    http://www.gtopala.com/siw-download.html
    Get the "SIW standalone" download and you don't have to install
    it....just download to your desktop or other folder, and run it:
    http://www.gtopala.com/download/siw.exe

    Expand "Hardware" in the left pane, and select "Sensors". It will show
    all the temps and voltages available through the sensors on your system
    for the CPU and the hard drives, and also shows the CPU fan speed.
    Post back with the temps shown...leave it running a while and see if the
    temps fluctuate much.

    Do you get the freeze in Safe Mode?
    Do you get the freeze if you disconnect all peripherals (printer,
    scanner, external drives)?
    Do you get the freeze if you do a clean boot (stay off-line during a
    clean boot as your AV will not be running)?

    How to configure Windows XP to start in a "clean boot" state
    http://support.microsoft.com/kb/310353

    --
    Glen Ventura, MS MVP Oct. 2002 - Sept. 2009
    A+
    http://dts-l.net/
     
  19. Jack B

    Jack B Flightless Bird

    Ok, I'll try System Information for Windows shortly.

    BTW, the pc froze after booting up today, so it wasn't on very long at
    all -- booted up, accepted my user mode, then froze.


    Jack

    ------------------------------------------------

    "glee" <glee29@spamindspring.com> wrote in message
    news:%23yuSxgX2KHA.3844@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
    "Jack B" <jslimp01nospam@earthlink.net> wrote in message
    news:%23JyyljF2KHA.5880@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
    >I thought I licked my pc crash problem, but apparently not.
    >
    > The pc locks up and I need to give it a hard shut down.
    >
    > But if I move the mouse afterwards, the pc powers on just as if I
    > pushed the
    > power on button! Does this give anyone a clue as to what the problem
    > is?


    I've read your other posts in this thread and there is not enough info
    to make more than guesses. Everyone thinks it is overheating....I
    don't....but again, guessing.

    Download System Information for Windows (SIW)
    http://www.gtopala.com/siw-download.html
    Get the "SIW standalone" download and you don't have to install
    it....just download to your desktop or other folder, and run it:
    http://www.gtopala.com/download/siw.exe

    Expand "Hardware" in the left pane, and select "Sensors". It will show
    all the temps and voltages available through the sensors on your system
    for the CPU and the hard drives, and also shows the CPU fan speed.
    Post back with the temps shown...leave it running a while and see if the
    temps fluctuate much.

    Do you get the freeze in Safe Mode?
    Do you get the freeze if you disconnect all peripherals (printer,
    scanner, external drives)?
    Do you get the freeze if you do a clean boot (stay off-line during a
    clean boot as your AV will not be running)?

    How to configure Windows XP to start in a "clean boot" state
    http://support.microsoft.com/kb/310353

    --
    Glen Ventura, MS MVP Oct. 2002 - Sept. 2009
    A+
    http://dts-l.net/
     
  20. Jack B

    Jack B Flightless Bird

    Ok, I tried to run System Information for Windows, but I get a pop up that
    says siw.exe is not a valid Win32 application.


    Jack

    ------------------------------------------------------

    "glee" <glee29@spamindspring.com> wrote in message
    news:%23yuSxgX2KHA.3844@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
    "Jack B" <jslimp01nospam@earthlink.net> wrote in message
    news:%23JyyljF2KHA.5880@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
    >I thought I licked my pc crash problem, but apparently not.
    >
    > The pc locks up and I need to give it a hard shut down.
    >
    > But if I move the mouse afterwards, the pc powers on just as if I
    > pushed the
    > power on button! Does this give anyone a clue as to what the problem
    > is?


    I've read your other posts in this thread and there is not enough info
    to make more than guesses. Everyone thinks it is overheating....I
    don't....but again, guessing.

    Download System Information for Windows (SIW)
    http://www.gtopala.com/siw-download.html
    Get the "SIW standalone" download and you don't have to install
    it....just download to your desktop or other folder, and run it:
    http://www.gtopala.com/download/siw.exe

    Expand "Hardware" in the left pane, and select "Sensors". It will show
    all the temps and voltages available through the sensors on your system
    for the CPU and the hard drives, and also shows the CPU fan speed.
    Post back with the temps shown...leave it running a while and see if the
    temps fluctuate much.

    Do you get the freeze in Safe Mode?
    Do you get the freeze if you disconnect all peripherals (printer,
    scanner, external drives)?
    Do you get the freeze if you do a clean boot (stay off-line during a
    clean boot as your AV will not be running)?

    How to configure Windows XP to start in a "clean boot" state
    http://support.microsoft.com/kb/310353

    --
    Glen Ventura, MS MVP Oct. 2002 - Sept. 2009
    A+
    http://dts-l.net/
     

Share This Page