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Missing Newsgroups

S

scott

Flightless Bird
I've been using outlook express version 6 (win xp) for years to read the
msnews.microsoft.com newsgroups. I recently noticed that only maybe 5% of
all of the available msnews.microsoft.com newsgroups will display in the
newsgroups dialog.

For example, there are no excel or access newsgroups even listed. Has
microsoft changed something? How can I read the missing msnews.microsoft.com
newsgroups with outlook express 6?
 
B

BillW50

Flightless Bird
scott wrote on Mon, 6 Sep 2010 18:10:33 -0500:
> I've been using outlook express version 6 (win xp) for years to read the
> msnews.microsoft.com newsgroups. I recently noticed that only maybe 5% of
> all of the available msnews.microsoft.com newsgroups will display in the
> newsgroups dialog.
>
> For example, there are no excel or access newsgroups even listed. Has
> microsoft changed something? How can I read the missing msnews.microsoft.com
> newsgroups with outlook express 6?


No! Microsoft are getting rid of all of them by October I believe it is.
But you can use other non-Microsoft news servers and get all of them.

--
Bill
Asus EEE PC 702G4 ~ 2GB RAM ~ 16GB-SDHC
Xandros Linux (build 2007-10-19 13:03)
 
M

mark

Flightless Bird
Bill,
if microsoft is not support its newsgroups by october then how can other non ms servers get the articles?
 
P

Paul

Flightless Bird
mark wrote:
> Bill,
> if microsoft is not support its newsgroups by october then how can other non ms servers get the articles?
>
>


USENET is a set of peer to peer servers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet

No server is the "master". When Microsoft disconnects their server, the
other servers can continue to exchange messages as they always
have. There just won't be a web-to-USENET server hosted at
Microsoft, that contributes as many articles to the distribution.

As long as individual USENET server administrators, don't remove
the microsoft.* hierarchy, those groups can function. And using
a news reader (like Forte Agent or Thunderbird), plus a free server
like nntp.aioe.org , will allow you to continue posting articles
to those USENET groups.

http://www.aioe.org/ (no account required, limit on articles posted per day)

As to whether people will use the Microsoft private forum, or
go elsewhere, really depends on whether they're getting the answers
they're looking for. The USENET option is harder to find, and takes
work on the part of the user. It doesn't have an "advertising budget"
as such. And USENET has the advantage, for at least the moment,
that Google archives all the posted articles, so they won't get lost.

Paul
 
P

PA Bear [MS MVP]

Flightless Bird
The OE newsgroups & many others were dropped from the MS newsservers in
early July 2010; cf.
http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support/msg/e6e22fe7bc8b1f04

This WinXP General newsgroup will be dropped from the MS newsservers on 12
Sept-10.

Microsoft Responds to the Evolution of Communities:
http://www.microsoft.com/communities/newsgroups/default.mspx

You will find continuing support for WinXP in these forums:
http://social.answers.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/category/windowsxp
--
~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Client - since 2002


scott wrote:
> I've been using outlook express version 6 (win xp) for years to read the
> msnews.microsoft.com newsgroups. I recently noticed that only maybe 5% of
> all of the available msnews.microsoft.com newsgroups will display in the
> newsgroups dialog.
>
> For example, there are no excel or access newsgroups even listed. Has
> microsoft changed something? How can I read the missing
> msnews.microsoft.com
> newsgroups with outlook express 6?
 
V

VanguardLH

Flightless Bird
scott wrote:

> I've been using outlook express version 6 (win xp) for years to read the
> msnews.microsoft.com newsgroups. I recently noticed that only maybe 5% of
> all of the available msnews.microsoft.com newsgroups will display in the
> newsgroups dialog.
>
> For example, there are no excel or access newsgroups even listed. Has
> microsoft changed something? How can I read the missing msnews.microsoft.com
> newsgroups with outlook express 6?


Microsoft is scrambling away from Usenet. Microsoft is not Usenet but
just one node in the worldwide mesh network of NNTP servers. Despite
the departure of Microsoft, Usenet will continue to exist as will the
microsoft.public.* group; however, obviously you need to use a different
node in the Usenet network to get at those groups. Eventually you won't
even be able to connect to [ms]news.microsoft.com because they'll kill
that server.

NNTP is not an included server in the later versions of Windows Server
(Windows 2003 Server was the last server version of Windows that
included their NNTP server). Microsoft isn't going to support an OS or
any part of it that is no longer under support. The rest of us know
that software remains usable for years or even decades after support is
dead or even if its author/owner fades into oblivion. The NNTP protocol
has changed little (which means it's stable) with some extensions added
back in 2000 but stability isn't what is important to Microsoft.
Microsoft won't support newsgroups because they lost their own NNTP
server in a supported version of their own OS but God forbid they use
anyone else's NNTP server. It's not Microsoft owned so Microsoft can't
use it. And Microsoft still trying to convince users not to abandon
Microsoft with a claim that they're embracing open standards. Uh huh.

Microsoft had no effective control over the content of posts in the
microsoft.public.* groups because, well, it's Usenet and Usenet is an
anarchy. They could filter out posts submitted to their NNTP server or
peered to them from other NNTP servers but they could do absolutely
nothing about the content in those same newsgroups carried on all the
rest of Usenet. So Microsoft finds excuses to close a very cheap
communications venue for free peer support and instead pushes their
customers to inane web-based forums lacking a vast number of features
that have been common to newsreaders for over a decade.

Microsoft did give a glancing stab at providing an NNTP-to-webforum
gateway that runs locally on your host (instead on their server to which
you would connect your NNTP server) and there is also a better
"Community" version (somewhere on Sourceforge, I think) but if you try
either then it won't be long until you abandon that access method.
Trying to get articles updated through the NNTP-to-webforum gateway is
extremely slow. Microsoft's gateway (which itself proclaims that
Microsoft didn't write that program) screwed up the Message-ID header's
value hence the values listed in the References header which led to
threading problems in many if perhaps not all newsreaders. The
Community version of the gateway fixes that but the excrutianting slow
article retrieval will make you long for the days of 1200 baud dial-up
when downloading e-mail which was far more speedy. Plus, if you visit
their web-based forums for awhile, you start to realize that the minimal
intelligence needed to configure a newsreader automatically eliminated
some of the severest boobs that still show up in the forums.

Their forums are a mess. They don't even have features that are typical
in other web-based forums that usually employ phpBB or vBulletin. Yeah,
I know, those aren't Microsoft products either and why Microsoft will
refuse to use them.
 
W

W****n S.

Flightless Bird
"VanguardLH" <V@nguard.LH> wrote in message
news:i640tm$sbg$1@news.albasani.net...
> scott wrote:
>
>> I've been using outlook express version 6 (win xp) for years to read the
>> msnews.microsoft.com newsgroups. I recently noticed that only maybe 5% of
>> all of the available msnews.microsoft.com newsgroups will display in the
>> newsgroups dialog.
>>
>> For example, there are no excel or access newsgroups even listed. Has
>> microsoft changed something? How can I read the missing
>> msnews.microsoft.com
>> newsgroups with outlook express 6?

>
> Microsoft is scrambling away from Usenet. Microsoft is not Usenet but
> just one node in the worldwide mesh network of NNTP servers. Despite
> the departure of Microsoft, Usenet will continue to exist as will the
> microsoft.public.* group; however, obviously you need to use a different
> node in the Usenet network to get at those groups. Eventually you won't
> even be able to connect to [ms]news.microsoft.com because they'll kill
> that server.
>
> NNTP is not an included server in the later versions of Windows Server
> (Windows 2003 Server was the last server version of Windows that
> included their NNTP server). Microsoft isn't going to support an OS or
> any part of it that is no longer under support. The rest of us know
> that software remains usable for years or even decades after support is
> dead or even if its author/owner fades into oblivion. The NNTP protocol
> has changed little (which means it's stable) with some extensions added
> back in 2000 but stability isn't what is important to Microsoft.
> Microsoft won't support newsgroups because they lost their own NNTP
> server in a supported version of their own OS but God forbid they use
> anyone else's NNTP server. It's not Microsoft owned so Microsoft can't
> use it. And Microsoft still trying to convince users not to abandon
> Microsoft with a claim that they're embracing open standards. Uh huh.
>
> Microsoft had no effective control over the content of posts in the
> microsoft.public.* groups because, well, it's Usenet and Usenet is an
> anarchy. They could filter out posts submitted to their NNTP server or
> peered to them from other NNTP servers but they could do absolutely
> nothing about the content in those same newsgroups carried on all the
> rest of Usenet. So Microsoft finds excuses to close a very cheap
> communications venue for free peer support and instead pushes their
> customers to inane web-based forums lacking a vast number of features
> that have been common to newsreaders for over a decade.
>
> Microsoft did give a glancing stab at providing an NNTP-to-webforum
> gateway that runs locally on your host (instead on their server to which
> you would connect your NNTP server) and there is also a better
> "Community" version (somewhere on Sourceforge, I think) but if you try
> either then it won't be long until you abandon that access method.
> Trying to get articles updated through the NNTP-to-webforum gateway is
> extremely slow. Microsoft's gateway (which itself proclaims that
> Microsoft didn't write that program) screwed up the Message-ID header's
> value hence the values listed in the References header which led to
> threading problems in many if perhaps not all newsreaders. The
> Community version of the gateway fixes that but the excrutianting slow
> article retrieval will make you long for the days of 1200 baud dial-up
> when downloading e-mail which was far more speedy. Plus, if you visit
> their web-based forums for awhile, you start to realize that the minimal
> intelligence needed to configure a newsreader automatically eliminated
> some of the severest boobs that still show up in the forums.
>
> Their forums are a mess. They don't even have features that are typical
> in other web-based forums that usually employ phpBB or vBulletin. Yeah,
> I know, those aren't Microsoft products either and why Microsoft will
> refuse to use them.


Well put.

Web based forums are just a plain pain in the arse.

Thanks Micro$oft.
 
G

Guest

Flightless Bird
"Paul" <nospam@needed.com> wrote in message news:i63uv4$qhp$1@speranza.aioe.org...
> As to whether people will use the Microsoft private forum, or
> go elsewhere, really depends on whether they're getting the answers
> they're looking for. The USENET option is harder to find, and takes
> work on the part of the user. It doesn't have an "advertising budget"
> as such. And USENET has the advantage, for at least the moment,
> that Google archives all the posted articles, so they won't get lost.


Usenet will be around long after Microsoft is a distant memory.
 
M

milt

Flightless Bird
On 9/6/2010 6:21 PM, BillW50 wrote:
> scott wrote on Mon, 6 Sep 2010 18:10:33 -0500:
>> I've been using outlook express version 6 (win xp) for years to read
>> the msnews.microsoft.com newsgroups. I recently noticed that only
>> maybe 5% of all of the available msnews.microsoft.com newsgroups will
>> display in the newsgroups dialog.
>>
>> For example, there are no excel or access newsgroups even listed. Has
>> microsoft changed something? How can I read the missing
>> msnews.microsoft.com newsgroups with outlook express 6?

>
> No! Microsoft are getting rid of all of them by October I believe it is.
> But you can use other non-Microsoft news servers and get all of them.
>


Not that there would be any point... I know this and the Vista group are
gone as of the 12th. The server is gone as of the 1st of Oct. This has
only been discussed a billion times, perhaps you would be better served
by the new MS forums where no one bothers to look up anything and wants
everything spoon fed to them even if its been answered 20 times in the
past day.
 
M

mm

Flightless Bird
On Mon, 06 Sep 2010 16:38:38 -0700, mark <user@msgroups.net/> wrote:

>Bill,
>if microsoft is not support its newsgroups by october then how can other non ms servers get the articles?


Microsoft support is not needed. The other servers will get articles
when people using the other servers post them, just like now.

No offense but it it's sort of like asking, We used to have 8 cars
taking people to the baseball game and now we have only 7. How will
we get there?
>
 
M

mm

Flightless Bird
On Tue, 7 Sep 2010 15:05:26 -0700, <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:

>"Paul" <nospam@needed.com> wrote in message news:i63uv4$qhp$1@speranza.aioe.org...
>> As to whether people will use the Microsoft private forum, or
>> go elsewhere, really depends on whether they're getting the answers
>> they're looking for. The USENET option is harder to find, and takes
>> work on the part of the user. It doesn't have an "advertising budget"
>> as such. And USENET has the advantage, for at least the moment,
>> that Google archives all the posted articles, so they won't get lost.

>
>Usenet will be around long after Microsoft is a distant memory.


I think so,

And it's not just free news servers, but there are paid news servers
for 3 to ?10? dollars a month, that have in many cases longer
retention times, or have binaries (which I have no use for.)
>
 
M

mm

Flightless Bird
On Mon, 6 Sep 2010 19:40:36 -0400, "PA Bear [MS MVP]"
<PABearMVP@gmail.com> wrote:

>The OE newsgroups & many others were dropped from the MS newsservers in
>early July 2010; cf.
>http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.windowsxp.help_and_support/msg/e6e22fe7bc8b1f04
>
>This WinXP General newsgroup will be dropped from the MS newsservers on 12
>Sept-10.
>
>Microsoft Responds to the Evolution of Communities:
>http://www.microsoft.com/communities/newsgroups/default.mspx
>
>You will find continuing support for WinXP in these forums:
>http://social.answers.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/category/windowsxp



And you will find continuing support right here
on microsoft.public.windowsxp.general .


But you'll have to use a different newsserver from the MS server.
 
M

mm

Flightless Bird
On Mon, 6 Sep 2010 21:17:08 -0700, "W****n S."
<Thisisnotreal@guess.com> wrote:

>
>"VanguardLH" <V@nguard.LH> wrote in message
>news:i640tm$sbg$1@news.albasani.net...
>> scott wrote:
>>
>>> I've been using outlook express version 6 (win xp) for years to read the
>>> msnews.microsoft.com newsgroups. I recently noticed that only maybe 5% of
>>> all of the available msnews.microsoft.com newsgroups will display in the
>>> newsgroups dialog.
>>>
>>> For example, there are no excel or access newsgroups even listed. Has
>>> microsoft changed something? How can I read the missing
>>> msnews.microsoft.com
>>> newsgroups with outlook express 6?

>>
>> Microsoft is scrambling away from Usenet. Microsoft is not Usenet but
>> just one node in the worldwide mesh network of NNTP servers. Despite
>> the departure of Microsoft, Usenet will continue to exist as will the
>> microsoft.public.* group; however, obviously you need to use a different
>> node in the Usenet network to get at those groups. Eventually you won't
>> even be able to connect to [ms]news.microsoft.com because they'll kill
>> that server.
>>
>> NNTP is not an included server in the later versions of Windows Server
>> (Windows 2003 Server was the last server version of Windows that
>> included their NNTP server). Microsoft isn't going to support an OS or
>> any part of it that is no longer under support. The rest of us know
>> that software remains usable for years or even decades after support is
>> dead or even if its author/owner fades into oblivion. The NNTP protocol
>> has changed little (which means it's stable) with some extensions added
>> back in 2000 but stability isn't what is important to Microsoft.
>> Microsoft won't support newsgroups because they lost their own NNTP
>> server in a supported version of their own OS but God forbid they use
>> anyone else's NNTP server. It's not Microsoft owned so Microsoft can't
>> use it. And Microsoft still trying to convince users not to abandon
>> Microsoft with a claim that they're embracing open standards. Uh huh.
>>
>> Microsoft had no effective control over the content of posts in the
>> microsoft.public.* groups because, well, it's Usenet and Usenet is an
>> anarchy. They could filter out posts submitted to their NNTP server or
>> peered to them from other NNTP servers but they could do absolutely
>> nothing about the content in those same newsgroups carried on all the
>> rest of Usenet. So Microsoft finds excuses to close a very cheap
>> communications venue for free peer support and instead pushes their
>> customers to inane web-based forums lacking a vast number of features
>> that have been common to newsreaders for over a decade.
>>
>> Microsoft did give a glancing stab at providing an NNTP-to-webforum
>> gateway that runs locally on your host (instead on their server to which
>> you would connect your NNTP server) and there is also a better
>> "Community" version (somewhere on Sourceforge, I think) but if you try
>> either then it won't be long until you abandon that access method.
>> Trying to get articles updated through the NNTP-to-webforum gateway is
>> extremely slow. Microsoft's gateway (which itself proclaims that
>> Microsoft didn't write that program) screwed up the Message-ID header's
>> value hence the values listed in the References header which led to
>> threading problems in many if perhaps not all newsreaders. The
>> Community version of the gateway fixes that but the excrutianting slow
>> article retrieval will make you long for the days of 1200 baud dial-up
>> when downloading e-mail which was far more speedy. Plus, if you visit
>> their web-based forums for awhile, you start to realize that the minimal
>> intelligence needed to configure a newsreader automatically eliminated
>> some of the severest boobs that still show up in the forums.
>>
>> Their forums are a mess. They don't even have features that are typical
>> in other web-based forums that usually employ phpBB or vBulletin. Yeah,
>> I know, those aren't Microsoft products either and why Microsoft will
>> refuse to use them.

>
>Well put.


Yes it was.
>
>Web based forums are just a plain pain in the arse.


Yes they are.

BTW, mozilla may not broadcast its newsgroups, or whatever it's called
to let other servers carry them. But mozzilla has 45 mozilla
newsgroups , related to firefox, Netscape, Thunderbird and maybe other
stuff, on its own news server, news.mozilla.org iirc. Many/most
computer programs to read news allow one to use more than one news
server at the same time, so you do have to put in another entry for
servers, but there's no charge, and the ARE newsgroups, with all the
advantages of newsgroups. Although there are 45 ngs, 3 of them will
get most of the business.)

>Thanks Micro$oft.


UGH.
 
K

Klaatu Barada Nikto

Flightless Bird
> only been discussed a billion times, perhaps you would be better served by
> the new MS forums where no one bothers to look up anything and wants
> everything spoon fed to them even if its been answered 20 times in the
> past day.


That's the way it's always been, even in the NNTP MS newsgroups.
 
K

Klaatu Barada Nikto

Flightless Bird

>
> And you will find continuing support right here
> on microsoft.public.windowsxp.general .
>

You still don't get it, HoopleHead.
 
C

ctowers

Flightless Bird
"mm" <NOPSAMmm2005@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:jc7e865qie74o4e25sn8oqcff2ds145jfd@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 06 Sep 2010 16:38:38 -0700, mark <user@msgroups.net/> wrote:
>
>>Bill,
>>if microsoft is not support its newsgroups by october then how can other
>>non ms servers get the articles?

>
> Microsoft support is not needed. The other servers will get articles
> when people using the other servers post them, just like now.
>
> No offense but it it's sort of like asking, We used to have 8 cars
> taking people to the baseball game and now we have only 7. How will
> we get there?
>>

>
 
C

ctowers

Flightless Bird
mm wrote:
> On Mon, 06 Sep 2010 mark wrote:
>
>> Bill,
>> if microsoft is not support its newsgroups by october then how can
>> other non ms servers get the articles?

>
> Microsoft support is not needed. The other servers will get articles
> when people using the other servers post them, just like now.
>
> No offense but it it's sort of like asking, We used to have 8 cars
> taking people to the baseball game and now we have only 7. How will
> we get there?



I am beginning to think the /innocent/ and /inexperienced/ questioners are
really Microsoft shills using incessant repetitive questions to instill
gloom and doom into newsgroup advocates.
 
T

Tim Meddick

Flightless Bird
It's really sad.....

Because of M$'s decision to close the Groups, I added the following to my
OE :

(nntp.aioe.org)
alt.msdos.batch
alt.windows-xp

....the sadness comes when a whole day can go by without anything new being
posted to them!!

Wasted resources.......

==

Cheers, Tim Meddick, Peckham, London. :)




"scott" <sbailey@mileslumber.com> wrote in message
news:%23$m81ihTLHA.2064@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> I've been using outlook express version 6 (win xp) for years to read the
> msnews.microsoft.com newsgroups. I recently noticed that only maybe 5% of
> all of the available msnews.microsoft.com newsgroups will display in the
> newsgroups dialog.
>
> For example, there are no excel or access newsgroups even listed. Has
> microsoft changed something? How can I read the missing
> msnews.microsoft.com newsgroups with outlook express 6?
>
 
S

Steve Cochran

Flightless Bird
Microsoft's waste bathwater has a lot of babies in it.

steve

"Tim Meddick" <timmeddick@o2.co.uk> wrote in message news:-OO6zrQBULHA.5912@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> It's really sad.....
>
> Because of M$'s decision to close the Groups, I added the following to my
> OE :
>
> (nntp.aioe.org)
> alt.msdos.batch
> alt.windows-xp
>
> ...the sadness comes when a whole day can go by without anything new being
> posted to them!!
>
> Wasted resources.......
>
> ==
>
> Cheers, Tim Meddick, Peckham, London. :)
>
>
>
>
> "scott" <sbailey@mileslumber.com> wrote in message
> news:%23$m81ihTLHA.2064@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>> I've been using outlook express version 6 (win xp) for years to read the
>> msnews.microsoft.com newsgroups. I recently noticed that only maybe 5% of
>> all of the available msnews.microsoft.com newsgroups will display in the
>> newsgroups dialog.
>>
>> For example, there are no excel or access newsgroups even listed. Has
>> microsoft changed something? How can I read the missing
>> msnews.microsoft.com newsgroups with outlook express 6?
>>

>
 
B

Bob I

Flightless Bird
You'll find the "babies" are over on "google groups".

Steve Cochran wrote:

> Microsoft's waste bathwater has a lot of babies in it.
>
> steve
>
> "Tim Meddick" <timmeddick@o2.co.uk> wrote in message news:-OO6zrQBULHA.5912@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>
>>It's really sad.....
>>
>>Because of M$'s decision to close the Groups, I added the following to my
>>OE :
>>
>>(nntp.aioe.org)
>>alt.msdos.batch
>>alt.windows-xp
>>
>>...the sadness comes when a whole day can go by without anything new being
>>posted to them!!
>>
>>Wasted resources.......
>>
>>==
>>
>>Cheers, Tim Meddick, Peckham, London. :)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>"scott" <sbailey@mileslumber.com> wrote in message
>>news:%23$m81ihTLHA.2064@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>>
>>>I've been using outlook express version 6 (win xp) for years to read the
>>>msnews.microsoft.com newsgroups. I recently noticed that only maybe 5% of
>>>all of the available msnews.microsoft.com newsgroups will display in the
>>>newsgroups dialog.
>>>
>>>For example, there are no excel or access newsgroups even listed. Has
>>>microsoft changed something? How can I read the missing
>>>msnews.microsoft.com newsgroups with outlook express 6?
>>>

>
>>
 
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