Rob wrote on 05 Sep 2010 09:12:59 GMT:
> BillW50 <BillW50@aol.kom> wrote:
>> In news:slrni850g3.jpn.nomail@xs8.xs4all.nl,
>> Rob typed on 04 Sep 2010 17:29
9 GMT:
>>> BillW50 <BillW50@aol.kom> wrote:
>>>> In news:slrni84tlv.jpn.nomail@xs8.xs4all.nl,
>>>> Rob typed on 04 Sep 2010 16:416 GMT:
>>>>> BillW50 <BillW50@aol.kom> wrote:
>>>>>> In news:slrni84q4f.ieb.nomail@xs8.xs4all.nl,
>>>>>> Rob typed on 04 Sep 2010 15:41:03 GMT:
>>>>>>> But not so with IE. It could have been a separate application but
>>>>>>> it was coded to be part of the operating system. Bad bad bad...
>>>>>> I disagree! All modern OS needs the Internet integrated into the
>>>>>> OS. As all OS have the file system integrated. And the Internet is
>>>>>> just a file system on remote servers. So it is only a natural
>>>>>> evolution.
>>>>> Only when you call a web browser "the Internet"...
>>>> Never written an OS before, have you Rob? I have in the early days
>>>> so I know something what I am talking about.
>>> Oh yes I have.
>>> I have been in computing since 1980.
>> I've been computing since the 70's Rob. So what OS did you write?
>
> Do you think that your being 5 years longer in computing than me
> qualifies you as a better expert?
Actually no! As I have met a few who claims to have 30 years plus
experience and yet I was surprised how little some of them really knew.
> I wrote a multitasking OS for internal use in a company that I worked
> for.
If so, it should have supported keyboards, monitors, printers, file
system, networking, etc.
>> And do you understand the job of an OS?
>
> Yes.
> I fully understand that providing web browsing is not amongst that.
Not web browsing per se, but layout engine support. In the case of
Windows, this is called the Trident engine.
>>> But I never have called an application "the Internet".
>> I don't believe anybody else did either.
>
> You said that having the internet browser application integrated in the
> operating system is modern because "the internet" has to be integrated
> in a modern OS.
> I think the internet browser application is not "the internet".
> (I know that the man in the street thinks it is, but I would expect
> a self-proclaimed OS expert to know better)
I would also think somebody with your experience would know better than
that! As before OS was always required (you don't really need an OS to
run programs), programs had to add their own hardware support. This
works of course, but it makes the programs much larger in size.
If you only use one program, it doesn't matter much. But start adding
more and more programs, it makes no sense for each program to include
its own hardware support. So why not have one program take care of the
hardware? Yes, so we now have and need OS.
Applications doesn't have to support keyboards, mice, printers,
monitors, modems, drives, etc. anymore because we generally let the OS
handle these tasks. Only when the OS doesn't do what you want it to do,
do you need to add it into your applications today.
When people talk about IE being built into Windows, it isn't really IE
itself. But rather it is the Trident (web browser engine) that is now
part of Windows which IE the application uses. So why is this important?
As now other applications doesn't have to add browser support into their
applications anymore. These are called Trident-based applications. Some
of them include:
* AOL Explorer, a web browser
* AOL Instant Messenger 6.x, which uses Trident to render conversation
and profile windows, and advertisement panels
* Ares Galaxy
* Avant Browser
* Bento Browser (built into Winamp)
* EA Link, incompatible with Trident as of Internet Explorer 7 RC2
* Enigma, a web browser
* Google Talk, which uses Trident to render chat windows and profile cards
* GreenBrowser, which is also presented at the BrowserChoice.eu page
* IE Tab, a Firefox add-on used to render pages with Trident within the
Firefox chrome
* Impulse (content delivery), uses Trident to render "Explore" page, as
well as several of the "Community" pages
* iRider, a web browser
* LimeWire, which renders the page 'New@Lime'
* Lunascape, developed by Lunascape Corporation
* Maxthon, which uses the Trident engine while adding features not built
into IE7
* MenuBox, a web browser
* Microsoft Compiled HTML Help
* Microsoft Encarta and related products
* Microsoft InfoPath
* Microsoft Outlook which uses Trident to render HTML Messages (prior to
Outlook 2007) and the "Outlook Today" screen
* Microsoft Outlook Express, which uses Trident to render HTML Messages
* Microsoft Visual InterDev 6 uses Trident in editing mode as visual
HTML designer
* Microsoft Visual Studio 2002-2005 use Trident in editing mode to
provide visual ASP.NET/HTML designer
* MSN Messenger, which uses it to produce Flash-based "winks" and games,
and for all advertisements shown in the advertisement banner
* NeoPlanet, a web browser
* NetCaptor, a web browser
* Netscape Browser (Netscape
, which used Trident to render web pages
in IE mode
* Pyjamas, a python Widget set Toolkit. Embedding IWebBrowser2 as an
Active-X component and accessing the COM interface, Pyjamas uses Trident
for the Desktop version, through the python win32 "comtypes" library.
* RealNetworks
* Sleipnir, a web browser
* SlimBrowser, a web browser
* TheWorld Browser, a web browser
* TomeRaider, a web browser
* Tencent Traveler, a web browser
* UltraBrowser, a web browser
* Valve's Steam client, previous versions of which used Trident to
render the "Store", "Update News" and "Community" sections as well as
the Steam in-game browser and MOTD screens in Valve games. The Steam
client was recently updated to use WebKit instead of Trident for these
features.
* WebbIE, a web browser
* Windows Live Writer, which uses Trident for its editor.
* Windows Media Player, which uses Trident to render the "Media
Information" pages.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trident_(layout_engine)
If the Trident (web browser engine) wasn't build into Windows, these and
more applications would have to reinvent the wheel again by adding their
own. And that would be silly, as that adds bloat, eats RAM, and slows
performance down. Thus it should be part of the OS IMHO.
>>>>> But we have seen you make many dumb claims, so this one only adds to
>>>>> it.
>>>> What dumb claims Rob? I never make any dumb claims.
>>> Your dumb claims about updates and servicepacks.
>> What about updates and SP Rob? Even Microsoft explains they are not for
>> everybody. So what is your problem Rob? And what about Bob who posted on
>> the 2nd (IE8 Won't start correctly) and complained about a Windows
>> Update taking out his IE8. And there are thousands if not millions who
>> has had problems with Windows Updates. So what do you have to say about
>> that Rob? Or do you just ignore such truths that goes against your own
>> beliefs?
>
> My opinion is that most problems that laymen have with Windows are caused
> by malware and the risk of introducing this malware goes way up when
> regular updates are not applied to the system.
It can if you don't understand Internet security. And frankly most
Internet users fall into this category.
> It may be that some people have problems with windows update, but they
> are vastly outnumbered by people who do NOT have problems.
Well hopefully that is true. Although I don't have any real hard numbers
how badly Windows updates have really messed up how many systems. And
that perhaps nobody knows either.
--
Bill
Asus EEE PC 702G4 ~ 2GB RAM ~ 16GB-SDHC
Xandros Linux (build 2007-10-19 13:03)
