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keybd gone and returns ?

Discussion in 'Windows XP' started by sixpack, Sep 7, 2010.

  1. sixpack

    sixpack Flightless Bird

    Ok, so my DVD burner would not burn, the program said it was but it never
    did, so I swapped out burners and reinstalled the prgram and still no joy,
    THEN for some reason my keyboard disappeared, it was not in control panel
    keyboards or system hardwear. it would not show up in Belarc or anywhere I
    could try. I swapped out 4 different keybds and no joy. I dug down and found
    a old old keyboard and it works, the keybd that didnt work is working fine on
    a different computer. I tryed both types of keybd plugs, etc ! It took over 6
    hours of musical keybds but its working now ! So the question is could the
    MB-keyboard plug or bits be going bad and works when it wants after a smaking
    on the side (changing keybds) or could it be a break in the XP program ? OH
    and the burner is now burning great again !

    Weird right ? Any ideas ????
     
  2. Paul

    Paul Flightless Bird

    sixpack wrote:
    > Ok, so my DVD burner would not burn, the program said it was but it never
    > did, so I swapped out burners and reinstalled the prgram and still no joy,
    > THEN for some reason my keyboard disappeared, it was not in control panel
    > keyboards or system hardwear. it would not show up in Belarc or anywhere I
    > could try. I swapped out 4 different keybds and no joy. I dug down and found
    > a old old keyboard and it works, the keybd that didnt work is working fine on
    > a different computer. I tryed both types of keybd plugs, etc ! It took over 6
    > hours of musical keybds but its working now ! So the question is could the
    > MB-keyboard plug or bits be going bad and works when it wants after a smaking
    > on the side (changing keybds) or could it be a break in the XP program ? OH
    > and the burner is now burning great again !
    >
    > Weird right ? Any ideas ????


    Have you been fooling around with any tools that delete
    UpperFilter or LowerFilter entries ? I understand the keyboard
    can be "disconnected", if you accidentally delete one of those
    filter registry entries.

    One of the techniques to "fix" a DVD burner, is to remove a specific
    Filter for it. The Microsoft Fixit tool can do that, but it looks
    for a *specific* GUID. If a user goes on a "spree", with REGEDIT, and
    tries to delete all of those things (regardless of GUID value),
    then the keyboard can get disconnected.

    There is a list of GUID values here.

    http://pcsupport.about.com/od/driverssupport/a/device-class-guid.htm

    And this kind of recipe, is what encourages people to go on
    a deleting spree. If deleting one of them is good, then
    deleting all of them must be double-good :)

    http://pcsupport.about.com/od/driverssupport/ht/upperfilters-lowerfilters.htm

    Using this, by comparison, should only go after things related to
    the GUID value of 4D36E965-E325-11CE-BFC1-08002BE10318 (optical drive)

    http://support.microsoft.com/gp/cd_dvd_drive_problems

    Once your computer has no working keyboard, then you're in a
    whole lot of trouble. Perhaps then, you'd need to use the
    registry replacement procedure (use Recovery Console, to
    copy over the spare "empty" set of registry files, followed
    by using System Restore later, to put back a proper set
    of registry files - doesn't work, if System Restore was
    turned off and no restore points with a copy of the
    good registry files are available to you).

    HTH,
    Paul
     
  3. sixpack

    sixpack Flightless Bird

    I never mess with the REGEDIT stuff, I was told never to get into it unless
    you know what your doing, which I do not ! When I was doing all the trouble
    shooting the Restore would not work, i just checked it and it says the drive
    G- I think that restore uses is turned off ? Now I have no idea and can not
    find how to turn it back on, it dont show up in disk clean or my computer or
    anywhere ! Would it fix things if I did a complete system refresh, clean
    install and start from new ?

    "Paul" wrote:

    > sixpack wrote:
    > > Ok, so my DVD burner would not burn, the program said it was but it never
    > > did, so I swapped out burners and reinstalled the prgram and still no joy,
    > > THEN for some reason my keyboard disappeared, it was not in control panel
    > > keyboards or system hardwear. it would not show up in Belarc or anywhere I
    > > could try. I swapped out 4 different keybds and no joy. I dug down and found
    > > a old old keyboard and it works, the keybd that didnt work is working fine on
    > > a different computer. I tryed both types of keybd plugs, etc ! It took over 6
    > > hours of musical keybds but its working now ! So the question is could the
    > > MB-keyboard plug or bits be going bad and works when it wants after a smaking
    > > on the side (changing keybds) or could it be a break in the XP program ? OH
    > > and the burner is now burning great again !
    > >
    > > Weird right ? Any ideas ????

    >
    > Have you been fooling around with any tools that delete
    > UpperFilter or LowerFilter entries ? I understand the keyboard
    > can be "disconnected", if you accidentally delete one of those
    > filter registry entries.
    >
    > One of the techniques to "fix" a DVD burner, is to remove a specific
    > Filter for it. The Microsoft Fixit tool can do that, but it looks
    > for a *specific* GUID. If a user goes on a "spree", with REGEDIT, and
    > tries to delete all of those things (regardless of GUID value),
    > then the keyboard can get disconnected.
    >
    > There is a list of GUID values here.
    >
    > http://pcsupport.about.com/od/driverssupport/a/device-class-guid.htm
    >
    > And this kind of recipe, is what encourages people to go on
    > a deleting spree. If deleting one of them is good, then
    > deleting all of them must be double-good :)
    >
    > http://pcsupport.about.com/od/driverssupport/ht/upperfilters-lowerfilters.htm
    >
    > Using this, by comparison, should only go after things related to
    > the GUID value of 4D36E965-E325-11CE-BFC1-08002BE10318 (optical drive)
    >
    > http://support.microsoft.com/gp/cd_dvd_drive_problems
    >
    > Once your computer has no working keyboard, then you're in a
    > whole lot of trouble. Perhaps then, you'd need to use the
    > registry replacement procedure (use Recovery Console, to
    > copy over the spare "empty" set of registry files, followed
    > by using System Restore later, to put back a proper set
    > of registry files - doesn't work, if System Restore was
    > turned off and no restore points with a copy of the
    > good registry files are available to you).
    >
    > HTH,
    > Paul
    > .
    >
     
  4. Paul

    Paul Flightless Bird

    sixpack wrote:
    > I never mess with the REGEDIT stuff, I was told never to get into it unless
    > you know what your doing, which I do not ! When I was doing all the trouble
    > shooting the Restore would not work, i just checked it and it says the drive
    > G- I think that restore uses is turned off ? Now I have no idea and can not
    > find how to turn it back on, it dont show up in disk clean or my computer or
    > anywhere ! Would it fix things if I did a complete system refresh, clean
    > install and start from new ?


    Start:Settings:Control Panel and run "System".

    "System Restore" is a tab in that panel. There is a tick box
    "Turn off System Restore on all drives", as well as individual settings
    for each partition. The stuff that matters to me, is all stored on C:.
    so I only have "monitoring" enabled on C:. Monitoring on the other
    partitions is turned off. The tick box near the top is unticked, as
    I want System Restore to be running.

    If you turn off System Restore using that tick box, it flushes the
    folder containing the restore points. So you don't want to do that,
    if you have great need of the copies of the registry stored in there.
    Don't touch the controls on that, unless you understand the
    consequences of what you're doing. And if it wasn't working
    in the first place, then obviously there is nothing left to lose.
    (If it was turned off, then it would not be making snapshots
    every day, of the critical stuff.)

    System Restore can help you, if the registry got trashed. If your
    system had it enabled for the last month or two, you'd have plenty
    of copies of the registry files. If System Restore was completely
    turned off (via the Tick Box or due to some malware or antivirus
    disrupting things), then you'd have no Restore Points to choose from,
    and no way to put the registry back exactly as it was. Some antivirus
    software interferes with the proper function of System Restore.

    System Restore is spread around a bit, and the second half of the
    interface, is in Start:programs:Accessories:System Tools:System Restore.
    For example, there is a tick box "Restore my computer to an earlier time"
    and when you use that, a "calendar" will show up. The highlighted days,
    are when the OS made a Restore Point. Some software installations
    also cause a Restore Point to be added. And those would be
    ways to get back to a working system.

    The actual data used, on my computer, is store in C:/System Volume Information.
    Since my C: drive is FAT32, I can get in there for a look any time I want :)
    If C: is NTFS, then it takes some additional work to get in there. The
    security settings on there are presumably present to prevent malware
    from getting in there (yeah, like that works...).

    I only made the suggestion, that your burner and keyboard issues
    were related, because at least one user went a little crazy with
    Regedit, and that is the kind of stuff that happened.

    Yes, reinstalling the system will fix all sorts of problems, but
    it is also a lot of work. And you need all your program discs, if
    you're doing a clean install. If you do a Repair Install with a
    WinXP CD, that leaves the programs in place, but it takes you back
    to the Service Pack level of the installer disc. You'd need lots of time
    in Windows Update, to put all the security patches back.

    In a world without malware, your OS would be a lot more stable, and
    there would be fewer surprises. It's possible your problems have
    something to do with that. A Repair Install won't remove malware.
    A Clean Install should do a better job (the "nuclear option").
    And making backups, is important so you don't lose any data files
    or your email database (.pst or the like).

    If your system is working, then leave it alone. If it is still
    malfunctioning and driving you crazy, then eventually you'll have to
    fix it.

    In terms of evaluating hardware problems, you can use a second OS
    as a comparison tool. For example, booting a Ubuntu LiveCD and
    using that to run the computer, gives you an opportunity to see
    the keyboard working, or burn a disc to see if the optical drive
    is OK. That is handy for comparison purposes. On my first computer,
    I had problems when I added some RAM, and about a year after the RAM
    was added, I happened to boot a Linux LiveCD. And the system was
    just as unstable in Linux and crash-worthy, as it was in Win98.
    Based on that, I could tell I had a hardware issue (it turned out
    the AGP slot had a design issue, when more than 512MB memory was
    present). If one OS is unstable and freaky, and the other one
    is smooth sailing, then chances are the freaky OS has software
    issues. Blowing that one away, and doing a clean install, would
    likely help it, as long as you have all the program discs needed
    to re-install all the applications.

    Linux LiveCD discs have the advantage, that you don't have to
    "install" them, for them to work. They run right off the CD (and you
    can't pull the CD out of the drive, until the OS is shut down).
    If you were to click the Linux "install" button, that would only compound
    your issues (because doing so, constitutes "multi-booting", and
    you need to know a few things about computers, to deal with
    that sort of thing). If you understand what multi-booting is,
    how boot managers work, then you can install Linux if you want,
    in a spare empty partition. Otherwise, just using the LiveCD
    without installing anything, is a *lot* simpler.

    *******

    Your PS/2 connector could be going bad. That is always possible,
    especially if you're had a few "incidents" where it got tugged on.
    I don't have any tests to suggest, to see if that is a problem
    or not. Wiggling it, might only make it worse, and so I'm not
    going to suggest that. If the tracks leading up to where the
    connector stack is soldered to the motherboard are cracked, that
    can cause keyboard problems. (You'd have to pull the motherboard,
    to do a visual inspection, and that isn't worth the effort.
    If you've had the motherboard out of the box already, then
    you'd be familiar with the effort involved.)

    It's a little strange though, that your burner and keyboard
    started acting up at the same time. Is any other hardware flaky ?

    Paul

    >
    > "Paul" wrote:
    >
    >> sixpack wrote:
    >>> Ok, so my DVD burner would not burn, the program said it was but it never
    >>> did, so I swapped out burners and reinstalled the prgram and still no joy,
    >>> THEN for some reason my keyboard disappeared, it was not in control panel
    >>> keyboards or system hardwear. it would not show up in Belarc or anywhere I
    >>> could try. I swapped out 4 different keybds and no joy. I dug down and found
    >>> a old old keyboard and it works, the keybd that didnt work is working fine on
    >>> a different computer. I tryed both types of keybd plugs, etc ! It took over 6
    >>> hours of musical keybds but its working now ! So the question is could the
    >>> MB-keyboard plug or bits be going bad and works when it wants after a smaking
    >>> on the side (changing keybds) or could it be a break in the XP program ? OH
    >>> and the burner is now burning great again !
    >>>
    >>> Weird right ? Any ideas ????

    >> Have you been fooling around with any tools that delete
    >> UpperFilter or LowerFilter entries ? I understand the keyboard
    >> can be "disconnected", if you accidentally delete one of those
    >> filter registry entries.
    >>
    >> One of the techniques to "fix" a DVD burner, is to remove a specific
    >> Filter for it. The Microsoft Fixit tool can do that, but it looks
    >> for a *specific* GUID. If a user goes on a "spree", with REGEDIT, and
    >> tries to delete all of those things (regardless of GUID value),
    >> then the keyboard can get disconnected.
    >>
    >> There is a list of GUID values here.
    >>
    >> http://pcsupport.about.com/od/driverssupport/a/device-class-guid.htm
    >>
    >> And this kind of recipe, is what encourages people to go on
    >> a deleting spree. If deleting one of them is good, then
    >> deleting all of them must be double-good :)
    >>
    >> http://pcsupport.about.com/od/driverssupport/ht/upperfilters-lowerfilters.htm
    >>
    >> Using this, by comparison, should only go after things related to
    >> the GUID value of 4D36E965-E325-11CE-BFC1-08002BE10318 (optical drive)
    >>
    >> http://support.microsoft.com/gp/cd_dvd_drive_problems
    >>
    >> Once your computer has no working keyboard, then you're in a
    >> whole lot of trouble. Perhaps then, you'd need to use the
    >> registry replacement procedure (use Recovery Console, to
    >> copy over the spare "empty" set of registry files, followed
    >> by using System Restore later, to put back a proper set
    >> of registry files - doesn't work, if System Restore was
    >> turned off and no restore points with a copy of the
    >> good registry files are available to you).
    >>
    >> HTH,
    >> Paul
    >> .
    >>
     
  5. BillW50

    BillW50 Flightless Bird

    In news:i69vr6$4bd$1@speranza.aioe.org,
    Paul typed on Thu, 09 Sep 2010 02:46:00 -0400:

    I loved everything you said Paul and it was well done. ;-)

    > In terms of evaluating hardware problems, you can use a second OS
    > as a comparison tool. For example, booting a Ubuntu LiveCD and
    > using that to run the computer, gives you an opportunity to see
    > the keyboard working, or burn a disc to see if the optical drive
    > is OK. That is handy for comparison purposes...


    > Linux LiveCD discs have the advantage, that you don't have to
    > "install" them, for them to work. They run right off the CD (and you
    > can't pull the CD out of the drive, until the OS is shut down).


    This part puzzles me? Why use a Live Linux on a Windows machine? I would
    much rather use BartPE on CD or a flash drive. That way you can do so
    much more than you can with a Live Linux CD. Like edit the registry or
    something if you need too. Even reinstall Windows if you want too.

    And speaking about Ubuntu Live, I booted on from a flash drive and it
    toasted my Windows XP on a netbook. That was very bad! Puppy Live didn't
    do this. Ubuntu Live did something with the Windows installer. And the
    Windows machine would boot and a window would pop up saying Windows
    Installer and just hang there.

    Restored from a backup and all was well again. I couldn't believe Ubuntu
    screwed up Windows. So I did it two more times and then I was finally
    convinced that Ubuntu Live did it. ;-)

    --
    Bill
    Asus EEE PC 701G4 ~ 2GB RAM ~ 16GB-SDHC
    Windows XP SP2 (no room for Windows Updates)
     
  6. Paul

    Paul Flightless Bird

    BillW50 wrote:
    > In news:i69vr6$4bd$1@speranza.aioe.org,
    > Paul typed on Thu, 09 Sep 2010 02:46:00 -0400:
    >
    > I loved everything you said Paul and it was well done. ;-)
    >
    >> In terms of evaluating hardware problems, you can use a second OS
    >> as a comparison tool. For example, booting a Ubuntu LiveCD and
    >> using that to run the computer, gives you an opportunity to see
    >> the keyboard working, or burn a disc to see if the optical drive
    >> is OK. That is handy for comparison purposes...

    >
    >> Linux LiveCD discs have the advantage, that you don't have to
    >> "install" them, for them to work. They run right off the CD (and you
    >> can't pull the CD out of the drive, until the OS is shut down).

    >
    > This part puzzles me? Why use a Live Linux on a Windows machine? I would
    > much rather use BartPE on CD or a flash drive. That way you can do so
    > much more than you can with a Live Linux CD. Like edit the registry or
    > something if you need too. Even reinstall Windows if you want too.
    >
    > And speaking about Ubuntu Live, I booted on from a flash drive and it
    > toasted my Windows XP on a netbook. That was very bad! Puppy Live didn't
    > do this. Ubuntu Live did something with the Windows installer. And the
    > Windows machine would boot and a window would pop up saying Windows
    > Installer and just hang there.
    >
    > Restored from a backup and all was well again. I couldn't believe Ubuntu
    > screwed up Windows. So I did it two more times and then I was finally
    > convinced that Ubuntu Live did it. ;-)
    >


    I have noticed some of the Linux distros "scanning" the partitions
    on the computer, even though a Linux LiveCD should not need to
    look at the computer it is connected to. (It is OK for it to
    look at the partition table, or even to verify the file system type,
    but it shouldn't be examining *all* the files, on some kind of
    witch hunt.)

    It's OK for the Linux LiveCD to look for a 0x82 swap partition.
    There are some OSes, that will even use a Windows pagefile if they
    can find one, and use it for that same purpose (swap). The latest
    LiveCDs finally seem to be coming with proper swap tuning, so they
    won't crash if no swap is available.

    As far as I know, Knoppix won't make changes to your system.
    But other distros might be overstepping their bounds, and it
    would be pretty hard to tell what they're up to.

    I think I've had at least one distro, that searches for an
    "image" of itself on the hard drive, with the objective of
    being more efficient at getting at the file system. But that
    is a real dangerous idea. Some of them, have a boot time
    option, such as "fromhd = /dev/sdc3", that allows the
    user to control where the distro gets its squashfs or the
    like, and that is fine. At least, you know where the thing
    is going, and what it will be using, with a manual
    command line specification.

    So yes, I share your concern about what is under the covers.
    I'd rate Knoppix as "pretty safe to date", and as for the
    others, I haven't been keeping track. By default, Knoppix
    treats foreign partitions as "read-only", until you tick the
    appropriate box to allow writing.

    One way for a distro to "screw up Windows", is to mess about
    with the MBR sector or the like. And anything associated with GRUB
    should only be happening during an install. If you click
    the install button, then I definitely can't guarantee any
    positive result if you do that. I've had to do things
    like fixmbr here before, because I didn't disconnect all
    disks except the target disk for the Linux install, so I
    know "stuff can happen" when you click the install button.

    The reason for using a LiveCD for hardware testing,
    is you can test more of the hardware. For example, my
    favorite Knoppix CD, has a copy of K3B burner application,
    and I've burned many CDs and DVDs in there. So I know, if
    my Windows OS ever has a burner problem, I can test with
    K3B and see if the burner is OK or not.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K3b

    The only thing it's still not good at, is testing video card
    3D operations. The default driver scheme seems to do too much
    processing in software. Currently, I'm not aware of a good
    stress test for a video card, that I can run with a LiveCD.
    (I've had Quake3 running in Linux, but that still isn't very
    stressful, as video games go.) This is another example of
    something you can try, but I didn't detect much stress from
    this either (SpecViewPerf).

    http://www.spec.org/gwpg/gpc.static/vp10info.html

    It's simpler to just take a spare disk, reinstall WinXP on the
    spare disk, and test the video card there. That is less work
    than trying to get Linux to do it.

    Paul
     

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