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Is defraging necessary?

Discussion in 'Windows XP' started by Lisa, May 13, 2010.

  1. Lisa

    Lisa Flightless Bird

    I was told by a computer repairman that it's not necessary to defrag my
    laptop. If the hard drive gets full, remove files and always make sure I'm
    using a virus protection.
    What are your thoughts?
     
  2. Pegasus [MVP]

    Pegasus [MVP] Flightless Bird

    "Lisa" <Lisa@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
    news:1AA94818-B553-4478-9F58-668B6F68C348@microsoft.com...
    > I was told by a computer repairman that it's not necessary to defrag my
    > laptop. If the hard drive gets full, remove files and always make sure
    > I'm
    > using a virus protection.
    > What are your thoughts?


    Occasional defragging is beneficial, e.g. once every two or three months,
    depending on the level activity. You won't notice any substantial
    improvement in performace unless your partitions are very heavily
    fragmented.

    You should make sure that the amount of free space on each partition is
    around 20% of capacity or more. Defragging does *not* free up disk space.

    Yes, you must install virus protection. I have used Microsoft Security
    Essentials (http://www.microsoft.com/Security_Essentials/) since December
    last year and have had no problem. It's free.
     
  3. Don Phillipson

    Don Phillipson Flightless Bird

    "Lisa" <Lisa@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
    news:1AA94818-B553-4478-9F58-668B6F68C348@microsoft.com...

    > I was told by a computer repairman that it's not necessary to defrag my
    > laptop. If the hard drive gets full, remove files and always make sure

    I'm
    > using a virus protection.


    The WinXP DEFRAG app first evaluates fragmentation on
    a drive, then advises whether defragmentation is needed or
    not. Ordinary WinXP users can rely on this advice.

    --
    Don Phillipson
    Carlsbad Springs
    (Ottawa, Canada)
     
  4. Ken Blake, MVP

    Ken Blake, MVP Flightless Bird

    On Thu, 13 May 2010 09:31:01 -0700, Lisa
    <Lisa@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:

    > I was told by a computer repairman



    *What* computer repairman? What company is he with? If, for example,
    he's with the Geek Squad, or any similar big-box store, he probably
    knows next to nothing and his opinions are worthless. I strongly
    recommend that you stay far away from such companies.


    > that it's not necessary to defrag my laptop.



    It's normally very seldom necessary. You can do it, but you don't have
    to do it often.



    > If the hard drive gets full, remove files



    That's a statement that's next to meaningless. Yes, if your hard drive
    gets full (or anywhere near full), you have a problem. But simply
    telling you to remove files without any guidance on what to remove is
    no real help at all.

    Moreover, if your hard drive gets near full, removing files is at best
    a stopgap measure. The problem will return quickly. The only real
    solution to the problem is to buy a bigger drive.


    > and always make sure I'm using a virus protection.




    He got that one right for sure. However, anti-virus programs are far
    from equal, and which one you choose is very important. Unfortunately
    the two biggest sellers, Norton and McAfee, are also the two worst
    products.

    I recommend eSET NOD32, if you are willing to pay for an anti-virus,
    and either Avira or Avast, if you want a freeware product.

    And one more point. Run an anti-virus program, and *also* at least two
    anti-spyware programs. I recommend MalwareBytes Anti-Malware and
    SuperAntiSpyware.


    --
    Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP (Windows Desktop Experience) since 2003
    Please Reply to the Newsgroup
     
  5. Twayne

    Twayne Flightless Bird

    In news:1AA94818-B553-4478-9F58-668B6F68C348@microsoft.com,
    Lisa <Lisa@discussions.microsoft.com> typed:
    > I was told by a computer repairman that it's not necessary
    > to defrag my laptop. If the hard drive gets full, remove
    > files and always make sure I'm using a virus protection.
    > What are your thoughts?


    You don't "have" to defrag a disk. There are some benefits to it but nothing
    very serious will happen to you in general. It's possible, not likely but
    depending on what you use it for, for it to slow down your computer.

    OTOH I do defrags about monthly on most of my drives and when I'm using it,
    after every session of video editing/rendering. If I don't my computer will
    come to a screeching near-halt due to the huge, fragmented files on that one
    very large drive should I continue to work in video.
    If I wait over two or three sessions to do the defrag, then in this case
    there is so much work to do that it takes hours to do a defrag. But by doing
    it after every session it only takes around 20 minutes so I just go on and
    do something else while it's running or let it run overnight if I'm done for
    the day. Point is, the worse the fragmentation and the larger the drive, the
    longer it takes to defrag. Especially if the drive is allowed to get full to
    the point of only about 15% free space. If free space gets low enough,
    defrag will cease to be able to work.
    IMO it's best to defrag periodically. Find a schedule that works for you
    and doesn't take several hours to run. Start with monthly and the, two, then
    three, or 3 weeks, whichever way it takes you. Everyone's needs are
    different.

    But it is not specifically necessary to run defrag.

    HTH,

    Twayne`
     
  6. HeyBub

    HeyBub Flightless Bird

    Lisa wrote:
    > I was told by a computer repairman that it's not necessary to defrag
    > my laptop. If the hard drive gets full, remove files and always make
    > sure I'm using a virus protection.
    > What are your thoughts?


    I can envision a situation in a data center with hundreds of thousands of
    transactions per minute where defragging may be of some slight benefit
    (assuming an NTFS file system).

    I can also imagine a user devoted to daily defragging experiencing a power
    interruption during a critical directory manipulation process.
     
  7. Leythos

    Leythos Flightless Bird

    In article <#1wndj28KHA.3176@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl>, heybub@gmail.com
    says...
    >
    > Lisa wrote:
    > > I was told by a computer repairman that it's not necessary to defrag
    > > my laptop. If the hard drive gets full, remove files and always make
    > > sure I'm using a virus protection.
    > > What are your thoughts?

    >
    > I can envision a situation in a data center with hundreds of thousands of
    > transactions per minute where defragging may be of some slight benefit
    > (assuming an NTFS file system).
    >
    > I can also imagine a user devoted to daily defragging experiencing a power
    > interruption during a critical directory manipulation process.


    On a small computer with many add/delete/grow/shrink operations, defrag
    can significantly impact file access times and can be very noticeable to
    users if their system was badly file fragmented before the defrag.

    White-Space fragmention is not normally an issue, but a file that is
    fragmented into 8000 parts will have an impact on system performance.

    This argument has gone on for decades, but it's the people that maintain
    systems across many areas that know the benefits of defrag.

    --
    You can't trust your best friends, your five senses, only the little
    voice inside you that most civilians don't even hear -- Listen to that.
    Trust yourself.
    spam999free@rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)
     
  8. Db

    Db Flightless Bird

    I think the question is
    a little ridiculous.

    you should do your own
    analysis and determine if
    defrag is beneficial for
    you and your system.

    ---------------------
    the train of thought is that
    most computers have
    faster and larger hard drives
    with "lots" of room in the
    gigabytes and terabytes

    and because there is plenty
    of room for fragmented files
    and disk access speeds are
    very fast, defragging
    has little affect on performance.

    however, there was a time
    that small hard drives did
    require defragging.

    in my opinion, if the amount
    of data has not exceeded
    50% of the disk, then you
    may be wasting your time
    in defragging.

    but the above is subjective
    and there is really no rule
    of thumb and you will have
    to determine if your disk
    needs defrag or not.

    on the other hand, if your
    tripping an acid, then it may
    be entertaining to stare at the
    defrag screen and watch all
    the colorful little blocks move
    around.

    ~db


    "Lisa" <Lisa@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
    news:1AA94818-B553-4478-9F58-668B6F68C348@microsoft.com...
    > I was told by a computer repairman that it's not necessary to defrag my
    > laptop. If the hard drive gets full, remove files and always make sure
    > I'm
    > using a virus protection.
    > What are your thoughts?
     
  9. Leythos

    Leythos Flightless Bird

    In article <8BE3710B-3210-4A30-9770-A8B5E56D1715@microsoft.com>,
    databaseben@sbcglobal.net says...
    >
    > in my opinion, if the amount
    > of data has not exceeded
    > 50% of the disk, then you
    > may be wasting your time
    > in defragging.
    >


    And that's why people don't really pay attention to what you post here
    DB.

    It's not about how much free space you have left on the disk, since free
    space has little to do with fragmentation, other than making it worse
    when you have less free space.

    What does impact fragmentation is the number of ADD/DELETE/SIZE Changes
    you make to the files on the drive.

    I've seen a single PDF, on a drive with 800GB free space, fragmented
    into 29,000 parts. It would take up to a minute to load, after the
    defrag it took a few seconds...

    --
    You can't trust your best friends, your five senses, only the little
    voice inside you that most civilians don't even hear -- Listen to that.
    Trust yourself.
    spam999free@rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)
     
  10. John

    John Flightless Bird

    I'm curious. How did you know the file is fragmented into x parts? What
    software did you use to see this fragmentation?

    "Leythos" <spam999free@rrohio.com> wrote in message
    news:MPG.2657727c502cb8cd98a360@us.news.astraweb.com...
    >
    > I've seen a single PDF, on a drive with 800GB free space, fragmented
    > into 29,000 parts. It would take up to a minute to load, after the
    > defrag it took a few seconds...
     
  11. Leythos

    Leythos Flightless Bird

    In article <u4LaIG78KHA.5808@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl>, "John" says...
    >
    > I'm curious. How did you know the file is fragmented into x parts? What
    > software did you use to see this fragmentation?


    Have you ever used Windows Defrag or JK-Defrag or MyDefrag?

    Windows Defrag will generate a report after you Analyze the disk, it
    shows FRAGMENTS, File Size, File Name (includes location).

    --
    You can't trust your best friends, your five senses, only the little
    voice inside you that most civilians don't even hear -- Listen to that.
    Trust yourself.
    spam999free@rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)
     
  12. LDS5ZRA

    LDS5ZRA Flightless Bird

    No it is not absolute necessity to defrag your HD unless you want
    to kill time doing something. The nutters who have said that you
    should defrag your HD every week or even every month are likely to
    be loners and jobless.

    There is no evidence that defragging speeds up your system in any
    shape or form. No something you will notice it when using your
    system everyday.

    hth


    Lisa wrote:
    >
    > I was told by a computer repairman that it's not necessary to defrag my
    > laptop. If the hard drive gets full, remove files and always make sure I'm
    > using a virus protection.
    > What are your thoughts?


    --
    THE INFORMATION IS PROVIDED "AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY
    KIND. LDS5ZRA DISCLAIMS ALL WARRANTIES, EITHER EXPRESSED OR
    IMPLIED, INCLUDING THE WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND
    FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. IN NO EVENT SHALL LDS5ZRA
    OR HIS ASSOCIATES BE LIABLE FOR ANY DAMAGES WHATSOEVER
    INCLUDING DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, CONSEQUENTIAL, LOSS OF
    BUSINESS PROFITS OR SPECIAL DAMAGES, EVEN IF LDS5ZRA OR HIS
    ASSOCIATES HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH
    DAMAGES. SOME STATES DO NOT ALLOW THE EXCLUSION OR
    LIMITATION OF LIABILITY FOR CONSEQUENTIAL OR INCIDENTAL
    DAMAGES SO THE FOREGOING LIMITATION MAY NOT APPLY.

    Copyright LDS5ZRA 2010.
     
  13. LDS5ZRA

    LDS5ZRA Flightless Bird

    John wrote:
    >
    > I'm curious. How did you know the file is fragmented into x parts?
    >


    He was talking from that small smelly hole on him bum!

    --
    THE INFORMATION IS PROVIDED "AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY
    KIND. LDS5ZRA DISCLAIMS ALL WARRANTIES, EITHER EXPRESSED OR
    IMPLIED, INCLUDING THE WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND
    FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. IN NO EVENT SHALL LDS5ZRA
    OR HIS ASSOCIATES BE LIABLE FOR ANY DAMAGES WHATSOEVER
    INCLUDING DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, CONSEQUENTIAL, LOSS OF
    BUSINESS PROFITS OR SPECIAL DAMAGES, EVEN IF LDS5ZRA OR HIS
    ASSOCIATES HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH
    DAMAGES. SOME STATES DO NOT ALLOW THE EXCLUSION OR
    LIMITATION OF LIABILITY FOR CONSEQUENTIAL OR INCIDENTAL
    DAMAGES SO THE FOREGOING LIMITATION MAY NOT APPLY.

    Copyright LDS5ZRA 2010.
     
  14. Michael

    Michael Flightless Bird

    "LDS5ZRA" <LDS5ZRA@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
    news:4BEDD14F.4C50DEA5@discussions.microsoft.com...
    >
    >
    > John wrote:
    >>
    >> I'm curious. How did you know the file is fragmented into x parts?
    >>

    >
    > He was talking from that small smelly hole on him bum!
    >


    "Him" bum? Why you keep referring to your mum in such derogatory terms is
    beyond me.
    --

    "Don't pick a fight with an old man.
    If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you."
     
  15. John

    John Flightless Bird

    Ah, I see... I never really pay attention to that column until now. Thanks.

    "Leythos" <spam999free@rrohio.com> wrote in message
    news:MPG.265799b2411c095498a362@us.news.astraweb.com...
    > In article <u4LaIG78KHA.5808@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl>, "John" says...
    >>
    >> I'm curious. How did you know the file is fragmented into x parts? What
    >> software did you use to see this fragmentation?

    >
    > Have you ever used Windows Defrag or JK-Defrag or MyDefrag?
    >
    > Windows Defrag will generate a report after you Analyze the disk, it
    > shows FRAGMENTS, File Size, File Name (includes location).
    >
    > --
    > You can't trust your best friends, your five senses, only the little
    > voice inside you that most civilians don't even hear -- Listen to that.
    > Trust yourself.
    > spam999free@rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)
     
  16. Leythos

    Leythos Flightless Bird

    In article <4BEDCFD7.EE17E555@discussions.microsoft.com>,
    LDS5ZRA@discussions.microsoft.com says...
    > There is no evidence that defragging speeds up your system in any
    > shape or form. No something you will notice it when using your
    > system everyday.
    >


    There is plenty of evidence that file defrag improves drive system
    performance, only a person with limited experience would suggest
    otherwise.


    --
    You can't trust your best friends, your five senses, only the little
    voice inside you that most civilians don't even hear -- Listen to that.
    Trust yourself.
    spam999free@rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)
     
  17. Brian V

    Brian V Flightless Bird

    What about defragmentation with a RAID system? Doesn't this system eliminate
    file defragmentation? I am under the impression that it is two copies of
    everything (one on each drive), it is a faster (and ??more stable system??)
    and more reliable system?

    Those new HDD's that are flash drives, SSD I think, they don't need
    defragmentation I saw in some tutorials. Since they are flash based, if I
    defragment my flash memory cards or my memory sticks, is this a bad idea?

    Thank you.

    "Leythos" wrote:

    > In article <4BEDCFD7.EE17E555@discussions.microsoft.com>,
    > LDS5ZRA@discussions.microsoft.com says...
    > > There is no evidence that defragging speeds up your system in any
    > > shape or form. No something you will notice it when using your
    > > system everyday.
    > >

    >
    > There is plenty of evidence that file defrag improves drive system
    > performance, only a person with limited experience would suggest
    > otherwise.
    >
    >
    > --
    > You can't trust your best friends, your five senses, only the little
    > voice inside you that most civilians don't even hear -- Listen to that.
    > Trust yourself.
    > spam999free@rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)
    > .
    >
     
  18. Leythos

    Leythos Flightless Bird

    In article <656B2B60-B186-4BF8-88F4-36451A9A6011@microsoft.com>,
    BrianV@discussions.microsoft.com says...
    >
    > What about defragmentation with a RAID system? Doesn't this system eliminate
    > file defragmentation? I am under the impression that it is two copies of
    > everything (one on each drive), it is a faster (and ??more stable system??)
    > and more reliable system?


    File Fragmentation is the same on a RAID or non-RAID volume.

    > Those new HDD's that are flash drives, SSD I think, they don't need
    > defragmentation I saw in some tutorials. Since they are flash based, if I
    > defragment my flash memory cards or my memory sticks, is this a bad idea?


    It would depend on the Flash drive/disk, if it has some means, other
    than what the OS uses, to control file fragments. Consider how and why
    FILE fragmentation is created.

    --
    You can't trust your best friends, your five senses, only the little
    voice inside you that most civilians don't even hear -- Listen to that.
    Trust yourself.
    spam999free@rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)
     
  19. Alias

    Alias Flightless Bird

    On 05/15/2010 03:43 AM, Leythos wrote:
    > In article<4BEDCFD7.EE17E555@discussions.microsoft.com>,
    > LDS5ZRA@discussions.microsoft.com says...
    >> There is no evidence that defragging speeds up your system in any
    >> shape or form. No something you will notice it when using your
    >> system everyday.
    >>

    >
    > There is plenty of evidence that file defrag improves drive system
    > performance, only a person with limited experience would suggest
    > otherwise.
    >
    >


    My goodness, I agree with Leythos. What's the world coming to?

    --
    Alias
     
  20. Leythos

    Leythos Flightless Bird

    In article <hsm0s8$lkp$10@news.eternal-september.org>,
    aka@hewhoismasked&anonymous.com says...
    >
    > On 05/15/2010 03:43 AM, Leythos wrote:
    > > In article<4BEDCFD7.EE17E555@discussions.microsoft.com>,
    > > LDS5ZRA@discussions.microsoft.com says...
    > >> There is no evidence that defragging speeds up your system in any
    > >> shape or form. No something you will notice it when using your
    > >> system everyday.
    > >>

    > >
    > > There is plenty of evidence that file defrag improves drive system
    > > performance, only a person with limited experience would suggest
    > > otherwise.
    > >
    > >

    >
    > My goodness, I agree with Leythos. What's the world coming to?


    Well, that will certainly harm my credibility, having you agree with
    something I've written.

    --
    You can't trust your best friends, your five senses, only the little
    voice inside you that most civilians don't even hear -- Listen to that.
    Trust yourself.
    spam999free@rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)
     

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