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IE8: What's wrong with document.documentElement.clientWidth?

Discussion in 'Internet Explorer' started by Axel Dahmen, Mar 1, 2010.

  1. Axel Dahmen

    Axel Dahmen Flightless Bird

    I've created a JavaScript checking for browser properties on load.

    From David Flanagan's book "JavaScript: The Definitive Guide", 5th edition,
    published by O'Reilly, page 276, I learned that IE6+ may be recognized from
    an expression like the following:

    if (document.documentElement && document.documentElement.clientWidth) {...}

    But this expression sometimes yields false!

    I don't know yet what exactly causes the "false" condition, but it always
    happens when I start-up my machine and double-click a <!DOCTYPE ... HTML
    page linking to the above JavaScript. Once reloaded this condition always
    yields "true".

    Anyone experienced this behaviour before? What would be a better conditional
    expression than the one above? Explicitly checking for undefined? Or null?

    TIA,
    Axel Dahmen
    www.axeldahmen.de
     
  2. Axel Dahmen

    Axel Dahmen Flightless Bird

    I've just made a test:

    Apparently, at first start-up after machine boot,
    document.documentElement.clientWidth==0.

    Seems dangerous to me to use this property then...




    ---------------------------
    "Axel Dahmen" <KeenToKnow@newsgroup.nospam> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
    news:4779441E-F33B-4212-A393-45F9F5820EF6@microsoft.com...
    > I've created a JavaScript checking for browser properties on load.
    >
    > From David Flanagan's book "JavaScript: The Definitive Guide", 5th
    > edition, published by O'Reilly, page 276, I learned that IE6+ may be
    > recognized from an expression like the following:
    >
    > if (document.documentElement && document.documentElement.clientWidth)
    > {...}
    >
    > But this expression sometimes yields false!
    >
    > I don't know yet what exactly causes the "false" condition, but it always
    > happens when I start-up my machine and double-click a <!DOCTYPE ... HTML
    > page linking to the above JavaScript. Once reloaded this condition always
    > yields "true".
    >
    > Anyone experienced this behaviour before? What would be a better
    > conditional expression than the one above? Explicitly checking for
    > undefined? Or null?
    >
    > TIA,
    > Axel Dahmen
    > www.axeldahmen.de
     
  3. PA Bear [MS MVP]

    PA Bear [MS MVP] Flightless Bird

    Developer-specific resources include:

    MSDN IE Development Forum (post such questions here instead)
    http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/iewebdevelopment/threads

    IE Developer Center
    http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/ie/default.aspx

    Learn IE8
    http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/ie/aa740473.aspx

    HTML and DHTML Overviews and Tutorials
    http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms537623.aspx and

    Cascading Style Sheets (CSS)
    http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/ie/aa740476.aspx

    Expression Web SuperPreview for Internet Explorer (free, stand-alone visual
    debugging tool for IE6, IE7, and IE8)
    http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/...FamilyID=8e6ac106-525d-45d0-84db-dccff3fae677

    Expression Web SuperPreview Release Notes
    http://www.microsoft.com/expression/products/Web_SuperPreviewReleaseNotes.aspx

    Validators:
    http://validator.w3.org/
    http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/

    --
    ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
    MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Client - since 2002

    Axel Dahmen wrote:
    > I've just made a test:
    >
    > Apparently, at first start-up after machine boot,
    > document.documentElement.clientWidth==0.
    >
    > Seems dangerous to me to use this property then...
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > ---------------------------
    > "Axel Dahmen" <KeenToKnow@newsgroup.nospam> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
    > news:4779441E-F33B-4212-A393-45F9F5820EF6@microsoft.com...
    >> I've created a JavaScript checking for browser properties on load.
    >>
    >> From David Flanagan's book "JavaScript: The Definitive Guide", 5th
    >> edition, published by O'Reilly, page 276, I learned that IE6+ may be
    >> recognized from an expression like the following:
    >>
    >> if (document.documentElement && document.documentElement.clientWidth)
    >> {...}
    >>
    >> But this expression sometimes yields false!
    >>
    >> I don't know yet what exactly causes the "false" condition, but it always
    >> happens when I start-up my machine and double-click a <!DOCTYPE ... HTML
    >> page linking to the above JavaScript. Once reloaded this condition always
    >> yields "true".
    >>
    >> Anyone experienced this behaviour before? What would be a better
    >> conditional expression than the one above? Explicitly checking for
    >> undefined? Or null?
    >>
    >> TIA,
    >> Axel Dahmen
    >> www.axeldahmen.de
     
  4. Axel Dahmen

    Axel Dahmen Flightless Bird

    Did you miss to send any personal response in addition to your signature?

    Or haven't you read my complaint about something not working in IE8 although
    should? My posting has actually been a bug report...

    Thanks,
    Axel Dahmen


    --------------
    "PA Bear [MS MVP]" <PABearMVP@gmail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
    news:#0$MXTWuKHA.1852@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
    > Developer-specific resources include:
    >
    > MSDN IE Development Forum (post such questions here instead)
    > http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/iewebdevelopment/threads
    >
    > IE Developer Center
    > http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/ie/default.aspx
    >
    > Learn IE8
    > http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/ie/aa740473.aspx
    >
    > HTML and DHTML Overviews and Tutorials
    > http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms537623.aspx and
    >
    > Cascading Style Sheets (CSS)
    > http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/ie/aa740476.aspx
    >
    > Expression Web SuperPreview for Internet Explorer (free, stand-alone
    > visual debugging tool for IE6, IE7, and IE8)
    > http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/...FamilyID=8e6ac106-525d-45d0-84db-dccff3fae677
    >
    > Expression Web SuperPreview Release Notes
    > http://www.microsoft.com/expression/products/Web_SuperPreviewReleaseNotes..aspx
    >
    > Validators:
    > http://validator.w3.org/
    > http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/
    >
    > --
    > ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
    > MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Client - since 2002
    >
    > Axel Dahmen wrote:
    >> I've just made a test:
    >>
    >> Apparently, at first start-up after machine boot,
    >> document.documentElement.clientWidth==0.
    >>
    >> Seems dangerous to me to use this property then...
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> ---------------------------
    >> "Axel Dahmen" <KeenToKnow@newsgroup.nospam> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
    >> news:4779441E-F33B-4212-A393-45F9F5820EF6@microsoft.com...
    >>> I've created a JavaScript checking for browser properties on load.
    >>>
    >>> From David Flanagan's book "JavaScript: The Definitive Guide", 5th
    >>> edition, published by O'Reilly, page 276, I learned that IE6+ may be
    >>> recognized from an expression like the following:
    >>>
    >>> if (document.documentElement && document.documentElement.clientWidth)
    >>> {...}
    >>>
    >>> But this expression sometimes yields false!
    >>>
    >>> I don't know yet what exactly causes the "false" condition, but it
    >>> always
    >>> happens when I start-up my machine and double-click a <!DOCTYPE ... HTML
    >>> page linking to the above JavaScript. Once reloaded this condition
    >>> always
    >>> yields "true".
    >>>
    >>> Anyone experienced this behaviour before? What would be a better
    >>> conditional expression than the one above? Explicitly checking for
    >>> undefined? Or null?
    >>>
    >>> TIA,
    >>> Axel Dahmen
    >>> www.axeldahmen.de

    >
     
  5. Dan

    Dan Flightless Bird

    PA Bear sent you a list of links to various IE developer resources.

    This is just a newsgroup for users of IE to discuss things with other users,
    not a bug reporting facility. MS dev don't monitor this group. Bugs should
    normally be posted through the Microsoft Connect site at
    http://connect.microsoft.com , although you'll find that the IE reporting
    system was disabled when the beta ended. If you go to
    https://connect.microsoft.com/IE then you'll see that under Other Feedback
    Channels there is the IE Developer Forum - this is the first link that PA
    Bear included in his reply, and is the only feedback resource listed by MS
    for IE8.

    Dan


    "Axel Dahmen" <KeenToKnow@newsgroup.nospam> wrote in message
    news:8010F3BB-9E7B-40BA-A804-3D40E07B0C86@microsoft.com...
    > Did you miss to send any personal response in addition to your signature?
    >
    > Or haven't you read my complaint about something not working in IE8
    > although should? My posting has actually been a bug report...
    >
    > Thanks,
    > Axel Dahmen
    >
    >
    > --------------
    > "PA Bear [MS MVP]" <PABearMVP@gmail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
    > news:#0$MXTWuKHA.1852@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
    >> Developer-specific resources include:
    >>
    >> MSDN IE Development Forum (post such questions here instead)
    >> http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/iewebdevelopment/threads
    >>
    >> IE Developer Center
    >> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/ie/default.aspx
    >>
    >> Learn IE8
    >> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/ie/aa740473.aspx
    >>
    >> HTML and DHTML Overviews and Tutorials
    >> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms537623.aspx and
    >>
    >> Cascading Style Sheets (CSS)
    >> http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/ie/aa740476.aspx
    >>
    >> Expression Web SuperPreview for Internet Explorer (free, stand-alone
    >> visual debugging tool for IE6, IE7, and IE8)
    >> http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/...FamilyID=8e6ac106-525d-45d0-84db-dccff3fae677
    >>
    >> Expression Web SuperPreview Release Notes
    >> http://www.microsoft.com/expression/products/Web_SuperPreviewReleaseNotes.aspx
    >>
    >> Validators:
    >> http://validator.w3.org/
    >> http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/
    >>
    >> --
    >> ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
    >> MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Client - since 2002
    >>
    >> Axel Dahmen wrote:
    >>> I've just made a test:
    >>>
    >>> Apparently, at first start-up after machine boot,
    >>> document.documentElement.clientWidth==0.
    >>>
    >>> Seems dangerous to me to use this property then...
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> ---------------------------
    >>> "Axel Dahmen" <KeenToKnow@newsgroup.nospam> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
    >>> news:4779441E-F33B-4212-A393-45F9F5820EF6@microsoft.com...
    >>>> I've created a JavaScript checking for browser properties on load.
    >>>>
    >>>> From David Flanagan's book "JavaScript: The Definitive Guide", 5th
    >>>> edition, published by O'Reilly, page 276, I learned that IE6+ may be
    >>>> recognized from an expression like the following:
    >>>>
    >>>> if (document.documentElement && document.documentElement.clientWidth)
    >>>> {...}
    >>>>
    >>>> But this expression sometimes yields false!
    >>>>
    >>>> I don't know yet what exactly causes the "false" condition, but it
    >>>> always
    >>>> happens when I start-up my machine and double-click a <!DOCTYPE ...
    >>>> HTML
    >>>> page linking to the above JavaScript. Once reloaded this condition
    >>>> always
    >>>> yields "true".
    >>>>
    >>>> Anyone experienced this behaviour before? What would be a better
    >>>> conditional expression than the one above? Explicitly checking for
    >>>> undefined? Or null?
    >>>>
    >>>> TIA,
    >>>> Axel Dahmen
    >>>> www.axeldahmen.de

    >>
     
  6. Axel Dahmen

    Axel Dahmen Flightless Bird

    Hi, Dan,

    thanks for replying.

    I followed a Hyperlink from the Microsoft site telling differently:


    http://www.microsoft.com/windows/internet-explorer/support/call-us.aspx

    "Other support options
    Leave feedback
    If you have any feedback about Internet Explorer 8, please post it to
    our newsgroup. "


    For me this seemed the only way to get in touch with the IE development
    team. The IE8 Connect channel has been closed down and there is no new IE9
    Channel available at this time.

    I'll try to follow the forum link, however, now. I had the impression so far
    this forum was for plug-in developers only.

    Thanks, Dan & PA for enlightening me!

    Yours,
    Axel Dahmen




    -------------------
    "Dan" <news@worldofspack.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
    news:ACCF93C7-9204-4D69-B03E-4AF424403169@microsoft.com...
    > PA Bear sent you a list of links to various IE developer resources.
    >
    > This is just a newsgroup for users of IE to discuss things with other
    > users, not a bug reporting facility. MS dev don't monitor this group. Bugs
    > should normally be posted through the Microsoft Connect site at
    > http://connect.microsoft.com , although you'll find that the IE reporting
    > system was disabled when the beta ended. If you go to
    > https://connect.microsoft.com/IE then you'll see that under Other
    > Feedback Channels there is the IE Developer Forum - this is the first link
    > that PA Bear included in his reply, and is the only feedback resource
    > listed by MS for IE8.
    >
    > Dan
    >
    >
    > "Axel Dahmen" <KeenToKnow@newsgroup.nospam> wrote in message
    > news:8010F3BB-9E7B-40BA-A804-3D40E07B0C86@microsoft.com...
    >> Did you miss to send any personal response in addition to your signature?
    >>
    >> Or haven't you read my complaint about something not working in IE8
    >> although should? My posting has actually been a bug report...
    >>
    >> Thanks,
    >> Axel Dahmen
    >>
    >>
    >> --------------
    >> "PA Bear [MS MVP]" <PABearMVP@gmail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
    >> news:#0$MXTWuKHA.1852@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
    >>> Developer-specific resources include:
    >>>
    >>> MSDN IE Development Forum (post such questions here instead)
    >>> http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/iewebdevelopment/threads
    >>>
    >>> IE Developer Center
    >>> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/ie/default.aspx
    >>>
    >>> Learn IE8
    >>> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/ie/aa740473.aspx
    >>>
    >>> HTML and DHTML Overviews and Tutorials
    >>> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms537623.aspx and
    >>>
    >>> Cascading Style Sheets (CSS)
    >>> http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/ie/aa740476.aspx
    >>>
    >>> Expression Web SuperPreview for Internet Explorer (free, stand-alone
    >>> visual debugging tool for IE6, IE7, and IE8)
    >>> http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/...FamilyID=8e6ac106-525d-45d0-84db-dccff3fae677
    >>>
    >>> Expression Web SuperPreview Release Notes
    >>> http://www.microsoft.com/expression/products/Web_SuperPreviewReleaseNotes..aspx
    >>>
    >>> Validators:
    >>> http://validator.w3.org/
    >>> http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/
    >>>
    >>> --
    >>> ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
    >>> MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Client - since 2002
    >>>
    >>> Axel Dahmen wrote:
    >>>> I've just made a test:
    >>>>
    >>>> Apparently, at first start-up after machine boot,
    >>>> document.documentElement.clientWidth==0.
    >>>>
    >>>> Seems dangerous to me to use this property then...
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> ---------------------------
    >>>> "Axel Dahmen" <KeenToKnow@newsgroup.nospam> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
    >>>> news:4779441E-F33B-4212-A393-45F9F5820EF6@microsoft.com...
    >>>>> I've created a JavaScript checking for browser properties on load.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> From David Flanagan's book "JavaScript: The Definitive Guide", 5th
    >>>>> edition, published by O'Reilly, page 276, I learned that IE6+ may be
    >>>>> recognized from an expression like the following:
    >>>>>
    >>>>> if (document.documentElement && document.documentElement.clientWidth)
    >>>>> {...}
    >>>>>
    >>>>> But this expression sometimes yields false!
    >>>>>
    >>>>> I don't know yet what exactly causes the "false" condition, but it
    >>>>> always
    >>>>> happens when I start-up my machine and double-click a <!DOCTYPE ....
    >>>>> HTML
    >>>>> page linking to the above JavaScript. Once reloaded this condition
    >>>>> always
    >>>>> yields "true".
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Anyone experienced this behaviour before? What would be a better
    >>>>> conditional expression than the one above? Explicitly checking for
    >>>>> undefined? Or null?
    >>>>>
    >>>>> TIA,
    >>>>> Axel Dahmen
    >>>>> www.axeldahmen.de
    >>>

    >
    >
    >
    >
     
  7. PA Bear [MS MVP]

    PA Bear [MS MVP] Flightless Bird

    Post about such issues here instead:
    http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/iewebdevelopment/threads

    No one here works for or represents Microsoft (including me).


    Axel Dahmen wrote:
    > Did you miss to send any personal response in addition to your signature?
    >
    > Or haven't you read my complaint about something not working in IE8
    > although
    > should? My posting has actually been a bug report...
    >
    > Thanks,
    > Axel Dahmen
    >
    >
    > --------------
    > "PA Bear [MS MVP]" <PABearMVP@gmail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
    > news:#0$MXTWuKHA.1852@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
    >> Developer-specific resources include:
    >>
    >> MSDN IE Development Forum (post such questions here instead)
    >> http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/iewebdevelopment/threads
    >>
    >> IE Developer Center
    >> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/ie/default.aspx
    >>
    >> Learn IE8
    >> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/ie/aa740473.aspx
    >>
    >> HTML and DHTML Overviews and Tutorials
    >> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms537623.aspx and
    >>
    >> Cascading Style Sheets (CSS)
    >> http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/ie/aa740476.aspx
    >>
    >> Expression Web SuperPreview for Internet Explorer (free, stand-alone
    >> visual debugging tool for IE6, IE7, and IE8)
    >> http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/...FamilyID=8e6ac106-525d-45d0-84db-dccff3fae677
    >>
    >> Expression Web SuperPreview Release Notes
    >> http://www.microsoft.com/expression/products/Web_SuperPreviewReleaseNotes.aspx
    >>
    >> Validators:
    >> http://validator.w3.org/
    >> http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/
    >>
    >> --
    >> ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
    >> MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Client - since 2002
    >>
    >> Axel Dahmen wrote:
    >>> I've just made a test:
    >>>
    >>> Apparently, at first start-up after machine boot,
    >>> document.documentElement.clientWidth==0.
    >>>
    >>> Seems dangerous to me to use this property then...
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> ---------------------------
    >>> "Axel Dahmen" <KeenToKnow@newsgroup.nospam> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
    >>> news:4779441E-F33B-4212-A393-45F9F5820EF6@microsoft.com...
    >>>> I've created a JavaScript checking for browser properties on load.
    >>>>
    >>>> From David Flanagan's book "JavaScript: The Definitive Guide", 5th
    >>>> edition, published by O'Reilly, page 276, I learned that IE6+ may be
    >>>> recognized from an expression like the following:
    >>>>
    >>>> if (document.documentElement && document.documentElement.clientWidth)
    >>>> {...}
    >>>>
    >>>> But this expression sometimes yields false!
    >>>>
    >>>> I don't know yet what exactly causes the "false" condition, but it
    >>>> always
    >>>> happens when I start-up my machine and double-click a <!DOCTYPE ...
    >>>> HTML
    >>>> page linking to the above JavaScript. Once reloaded this condition
    >>>> always
    >>>> yields "true".
    >>>>
    >>>> Anyone experienced this behaviour before? What would be a better
    >>>> conditional expression than the one above? Explicitly checking for
    >>>> undefined? Or null?
    >>>>
    >>>> TIA,
    >>>> Axel Dahmen
    >>>> www.axeldahmen.de
     
  8. Dan

    Dan Flightless Bird

    "Axel Dahmen" <KeenToKnow@newsgroup.nospam> wrote in message
    news:A5A60FEA-0BF9-4F5C-A98B-10CB5BF7FAA7@microsoft.com...
    > Hi, Dan,
    >
    > thanks for replying.
    >
    > I followed a Hyperlink from the Microsoft site telling differently:
    >
    >
    > http://www.microsoft.com/windows/internet-explorer/support/call-us.aspx
    >
    > "Other support options
    > Leave feedback
    > If you have any feedback about Internet Explorer 8, please post it
    > to our newsgroup. "


    Ah, that old misdirection from Microsoft. It's caught a lot of people out.

    > For me this seemed the only way to get in touch with the IE development
    > team. The IE8 Connect channel has been closed down and there is no new IE9
    > Channel available at this time.


    As I said, nobody from MS appears to monitor this group. All the public MS
    newsgroups are peer-to-peer discussion, nothing more.

    > I'll try to follow the forum link, however, now. I had the impression so
    > far this forum was for plug-in developers only.
    >
    >
    > Thanks, Dan & PA for enlightening me!
    >
    > Yours,
    > Axel Dahmen



    Good luck :)

    Dan

    >
    >
    >
    > -------------------
    > "Dan" <news@worldofspack.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
    > news:ACCF93C7-9204-4D69-B03E-4AF424403169@microsoft.com...
    >> PA Bear sent you a list of links to various IE developer resources.
    >>
    >> This is just a newsgroup for users of IE to discuss things with other
    >> users, not a bug reporting facility. MS dev don't monitor this group.
    >> Bugs should normally be posted through the Microsoft Connect site at
    >> http://connect.microsoft.com , although you'll find that the IE reporting
    >> system was disabled when the beta ended. If you go to
    >> https://connect.microsoft.com/IE then you'll see that under Other
    >> Feedback Channels there is the IE Developer Forum - this is the first
    >> link that PA Bear included in his reply, and is the only feedback
    >> resource listed by MS for IE8.
    >>
    >> Dan
    >>
    >>
    >> "Axel Dahmen" <KeenToKnow@newsgroup.nospam> wrote in message
    >> news:8010F3BB-9E7B-40BA-A804-3D40E07B0C86@microsoft.com...
    >>> Did you miss to send any personal response in addition to your
    >>> signature?
    >>>
    >>> Or haven't you read my complaint about something not working in IE8
    >>> although should? My posting has actually been a bug report...
    >>>
    >>> Thanks,
    >>> Axel Dahmen
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> --------------
    >>> "PA Bear [MS MVP]" <PABearMVP@gmail.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
    >>> news:#0$MXTWuKHA.1852@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
    >>>> Developer-specific resources include:
    >>>>
    >>>> MSDN IE Development Forum (post such questions here instead)
    >>>> http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/iewebdevelopment/threads
    >>>>
    >>>> IE Developer Center
    >>>> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/ie/default.aspx
    >>>>
    >>>> Learn IE8
    >>>> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/ie/aa740473.aspx
    >>>>
    >>>> HTML and DHTML Overviews and Tutorials
    >>>> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms537623.aspx and
    >>>>
    >>>> Cascading Style Sheets (CSS)
    >>>> http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/ie/aa740476.aspx
    >>>>
    >>>> Expression Web SuperPreview for Internet Explorer (free, stand-alone
    >>>> visual debugging tool for IE6, IE7, and IE8)
    >>>> http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/...FamilyID=8e6ac106-525d-45d0-84db-dccff3fae677
    >>>>
    >>>> Expression Web SuperPreview Release Notes
    >>>> http://www.microsoft.com/expression/products/Web_SuperPreviewReleaseNotes.aspx
    >>>>
    >>>> Validators:
    >>>> http://validator.w3.org/
    >>>> http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/
    >>>>
    >>>> --
    >>>> ~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
    >>>> MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Client - since 2002
    >>>>
    >>>> Axel Dahmen wrote:
    >>>>> I've just made a test:
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Apparently, at first start-up after machine boot,
    >>>>> document.documentElement.clientWidth==0.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Seems dangerous to me to use this property then...
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> ---------------------------
    >>>>> "Axel Dahmen" <KeenToKnow@newsgroup.nospam> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
    >>>>> news:4779441E-F33B-4212-A393-45F9F5820EF6@microsoft.com...
    >>>>>> I've created a JavaScript checking for browser properties on load.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> From David Flanagan's book "JavaScript: The Definitive Guide", 5th
    >>>>>> edition, published by O'Reilly, page 276, I learned that IE6+ may be
    >>>>>> recognized from an expression like the following:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> if (document.documentElement && document.documentElement.clientWidth)
    >>>>>> {...}
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> But this expression sometimes yields false!
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> I don't know yet what exactly causes the "false" condition, but it
    >>>>>> always
    >>>>>> happens when I start-up my machine and double-click a <!DOCTYPE ...
    >>>>>> HTML
    >>>>>> page linking to the above JavaScript. Once reloaded this condition
    >>>>>> always
    >>>>>> yields "true".
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Anyone experienced this behaviour before? What would be a better
    >>>>>> conditional expression than the one above? Explicitly checking for
    >>>>>> undefined? Or null?
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> TIA,
    >>>>>> Axel Dahmen
    >>>>>> www.axeldahmen.de
    >>>>

    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
     

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