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Help me understand mysterious Temp files.

J

JD

Flightless Bird
Three of these appear every time I log on to Windows, in this folder:
C:/Documents and Settings\Owner\Local Settings\Temp. I can always delete all
but the three most recent. I see repeated references to Adobe Photoshop,
which is not now nor has it ever been installed on my computer--though I do
use the Adobe PDF Reader.
I've heard lately of a strange new kind of "cookie," but can't remember what
it's called. Could that be what these are? I'd like to know why they appear
all the time, and have for several years. They don't do any apparent harm,
but do they do any good? Here's a snippet of a very long "temp" text
document:

Adobe Photoshop CS Windows 2006:05:18 14:40:13  .   < HHÿØÿà
JFIF  H H ÿí Adobe_CM ÿî Adobe d? ÿÛ"  
   


   ÿÀ"ÿÝ
 ÿÄ? 

 3 óF'"¤.´.ÄÔäô¥µÅÕåõVfv?-¦¶ÆÖæö7GWgw?-§·Ç×ç÷
5!1AQaq"2'¡±B#ÁRÑð3$bár,'CScs4ñ%¢²f&5ÂÒD"£dEU6teâò³"ÃÓuãóF"¤.´.ÄÔäô¥µÅÕåõVfv?-¦
ÆÖæö'7GWgw?-§·ÇÿÚ   ? õT'%?ÿÐõT>×WîÛÿ mYÿ ¤ÒIOÿÙÿí Photoshop 3.0
8BIM
 
P

Pegasus [MVP]

Flightless Bird
"JD" <erehwon@example.com> said this in news item
news:uSpBfV2kKHA.1652@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> Three of these appear every time I log on to Windows, in this folder:
> C:/Documents and Settings\Owner\Local Settings\Temp. I can always delete
> all but the three most recent. I see repeated references to Adobe
> Photoshop, which is not now nor has it ever been installed on my
> computer--though I do use the Adobe PDF Reader.
> I've heard lately of a strange new kind of "cookie," but can't remember
> what it's called. Could that be what these are? I'd like to know why they
> appear all the time, and have for several years. They don't do any
> apparent harm, but do they do any good? Here's a snippet of a very long
> "temp" text document:


I would check the Adobe Photoshop FAQs. If the files bother you then you
could delete them automatically with a simple logon script.
 
R

RJK

Flightless Bird
"JD" <erehwon@example.com> wrote in message
news:uSpBfV2kKHA.1652@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> Three of these appear every time I log on to Windows, in this folder:
> C:/Documents and Settings\Owner\Local Settings\Temp. I can always delete
> all but the three most recent. I see repeated references to Adobe
> Photoshop, which is not now nor has it ever been installed on my
> computer--though I do use the Adobe PDF Reader.
> I've heard lately of a strange new kind of "cookie," but can't remember
> what it's called. Could that be what these are? I'd like to know why they
> appear all the time, and have for several years. They don't do any
> apparent harm, but do they do any good? Here's a snippet of a very long
> "temp" text document:
>
> Adobe Photoshop CS Windows 2006:05:18 14:40:13  .   < HHÿØÿà
> JFIF  H H ÿí Adobe_CM ÿî Adobe d? ÿÛ"      
>
> 
>    ÿÀ"ÿÝ  ÿÄ? 
> 
>  3 óF'"¤.´.ÄÔäô¥µÅÕåõVfv?-¦¶ÆÖæö7GWgw?-§·Ç×ç÷
> 5!1AQaq"2'¡±B#ÁRÑð3$bár,'CScs4ñ%¢²f&5ÂÒD"£dEU6teâò³"ÃÓuãóF"¤.´.ÄÔäô¥µÅÕåõVfv?-¦
> ÆÖæö'7GWgw?-§·ÇÿÚ   ? õT'I%?ÿÐõT>×WîÛÿ mYÿ ¤ÒIOÿÙÿí Photoshop 3.0
> 8BIM
>


Many application programs open temporary files for their own operating
purposes. e.g. MS Office Word - if I fire up Word, it automatically opens a
new blank document, and instantly a couple of temporary files appear, ...and
as much as I hunt for them now (with a new Word *.doc open), - I can't
find them !

My AVG internet security suite seems to open some temp files for its' own
use - hmmmmm ....more than one AVG module is opening temporary files !
Just searched my C: drive for *.tmp and 611 files found if the result,
....must have another clean up soon !!!

I gave up trying to control Windows "temp" variables ages ago, ...it seems
to have a mind of its' own !

regards, richard
 
C

Chuck

Flightless Bird
"I do use the Adobe PDF Reader."
You answered the major part of your question. Adobe reader generally has
resident modules. If these are temporarily "killed" with task manager,
Can you then delete or rename the offending files? You could go to the
trouble on older reader versions to eliminate the resident modules. (Startup
group, registry, etc.)
I don't know if this is effective with the later versions, since the reader
may just replace the various entries at startup.
(Gave up on the later reader versions -- seems that Adobe made a change
between 8.x and 9.x that causes problems saving filled out IRS tax forms.)

"JD" <erehwon@example.com> wrote in message
news:uSpBfV2kKHA.1652@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> Three of these appear every time I log on to Windows, in this folder:
> C:/Documents and Settings\Owner\Local Settings\Temp. I can always delete
> all but the three most recent. I see repeated references to Adobe
> Photoshop, which is not now nor has it ever been installed on my
> computer--though I do use the Adobe PDF Reader.
> I've heard lately of a strange new kind of "cookie," but can't remember
> what it's called. Could that be what these are? I'd like to know why they
> appear all the time, and have for several years. They don't do any
> apparent harm, but do they do any good? Here's a snippet of a very long
> "temp" text document:
>
> Adobe Photoshop CS Windows 2006:05:18 14:40:13  .   < HHÿØÿà
> JFIF  H H ÿí Adobe_CM ÿî Adobe d? ÿÛ"      
>
> 
>    ÿÀ"ÿÝ  ÿÄ? 
> 
>  3 óF'"¤.´.ÄÔäô¥µÅÕåõVfv?-¦¶ÆÖæö7GWgw?-§·Ç×ç÷
> 5!1AQaq"2'¡±B#ÁRÑð3$bár,'CScs4ñ%¢²f&5ÂÒD"£dEU6teâò³"ÃÓuãóF"¤.´.ÄÔäô¥µÅÕåõVfv?-¦
> ÆÖæö'7GWgw?-§·ÇÿÚ   ? õT'I%?ÿÐõT>×WîÛÿ mYÿ ¤ÒIOÿÙÿí Photoshop 3.0
> 8BIM
>
 
T

thanatoid

Flightless Bird
"RJK" <nosuch@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:eEG$L52kKHA.2184@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl:

<SNIP>

> I gave up trying to control Windows "temp" variables ages
> ago, ...it seems to have a mind of its' own !


It never occurred to me that it was even possible, but you came
up with a THIRD variant of the its/it's spelling problem! Right
on!


--
There are only two classifications of disk drives: Broken drives
and those that will break later.
- Chuck Armstrong (This one I think, http://www.cleanreg.com/,
not the ball player. But who knows. I can't remember where I got
the quote. But it's true.)
 
R

RJK

Flightless Bird
"thanatoid" <waiting@the.exit.invalid> wrote in message
news:Xns9CFE74BF039B6thanexit@188.40.43.245...
> "RJK" <nosuch@hotmail.com> wrote in
> news:eEG$L52kKHA.2184@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl:
>
> <SNIP>
>
>> I gave up trying to control Windows "temp" variables ages
>> ago, ...it seems to have a mind of its' own !

>
> It never occurred to me that it was even possible, but you came
> up with a THIRD variant of the its/it's spelling problem! Right
> on!
>
>
> --
> There are only two classifications of disk drives: Broken drives
> and those that will break later.
> - Chuck Armstrong (This one I think, http://www.cleanreg.com/,
> not the ball player. But who knows. I can't remember where I got
> the quote. But it's true.)


I was taught, (in English at school), that the apostrophe goes after the s
to indicate that one is referring to a subject, or an item, appearing
earlier in the sentence.
Of course it is positioned between the t and s to indicate abbreviation.
That's what my English teacher taught, many, ...many years ago ! :)
And I'm sticking to it ! ...defiantly starting a sentence with the word
"and" !!!!!!

regards, Richard
 
T

thanatoid

Flightless Bird
"RJK" <nosuch@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:eAO7N$wlKHA.1824@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl:


> I was taught, (in English at school), that the apostrophe
> goes after the s to indicate that one is referring to a
> subject, or an item, appearing earlier in the sentence.


You were taught wrong. You DO realize that with their advanced
knowledge and general success in life most grade and high school
teachers would do better (both AFA performance AND income) as
garbage collectors? (Well... make your own jokes here...)

> Of course it is positioned between the t and s to indicate
> abbreviation. That's what my English teacher taught, many,
> ...many years ago ! :) And I'm sticking to it !
> ...defiantly starting a sentence with the word "and"
> !!!!!!


Starting a sentence with and is not a problem. My original
comment IS about a problem which I suggest you correct.

The "its" and "it's" with your astounding new variation is NOT
the same as e.g. "it belongs to the Richards's family" which is
acceptable though clumsy and falling out of use.


--
There are only two classifications of disk drives: Broken drives
and those that will break later.
- Chuck Armstrong (This one I think, http://www.cleanreg.com/,
not the ball player. But who knows. I can't remember where I got
the quote. But it's true.)
 
G

GbH

Flightless Bird
thanatoid wrote:
> "RJK" <nosuch@hotmail.com> wrote in
> news:eAO7N$wlKHA.1824@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl:
>
>
>> I was taught, (in English at school), that the apostrophe
>> goes after the s to indicate that one is referring to a
>> subject, or an item, appearing earlier in the sentence.

>
> You were taught wrong. You DO realize that with their advanced
> knowledge and general success in life most grade and high school
> teachers would do better (both AFA performance AND income) as
> garbage collectors? (Well... make your own jokes here...)
>
>> Of course it is positioned between the t and s to indicate
>> abbreviation. That's what my English teacher taught, many,
>> ...many years ago ! :) And I'm sticking to it !
>> ...defiantly starting a sentence with the word "and"
>> !!!!!!

>
> Starting a sentence with and is not a problem. My original
> comment IS about a problem which I suggest you correct.
>
> The "its" and "it's" with your astounding new variation is NOT
> the same as e.g. "it belongs to the Richards's family" which is
> acceptable though clumsy and falling out of use.


Never mind, but you're both wrong.
Let's discuss something other than its!

the apostrophe after the s is for when the possessed thing is plural,
nothing to do with position in the sentence.
Your teacher taught you incorrectly!! Or more correctly incorrectly
taught you!
Did your English teacher teach you English or American or English as a
foreign language?
Why I said to talk of something other than its, it is an exception,
there is no possessive apostrophe form for its. It's is the abbreviated
form of it is. Its is a posessive pronoun, like his or hers. there is no
plural form of its, that's theirs.

--
--
Geoff
ExploitEd

Wisdom and experience come with age, they say, but I do wish I could
remember the darn question
 
J

John John - MVP

Flightless Bird
GbH wrote:
> thanatoid wrote:
>> "RJK" <nosuch@hotmail.com> wrote in
>> news:eAO7N$wlKHA.1824@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl:
>>
>>
>>> I was taught, (in English at school), that the apostrophe
>>> goes after the s to indicate that one is referring to a
>>> subject, or an item, appearing earlier in the sentence.

>> You were taught wrong. You DO realize that with their advanced
>> knowledge and general success in life most grade and high school
>> teachers would do better (both AFA performance AND income) as
>> garbage collectors? (Well... make your own jokes here...)
>>
>>> Of course it is positioned between the t and s to indicate
>>> abbreviation. That's what my English teacher taught, many,
>>> ...many years ago ! :) And I'm sticking to it !
>>> ...defiantly starting a sentence with the word "and"
>>> !!!!!!

>> Starting a sentence with and is not a problem. My original
>> comment IS about a problem which I suggest you correct.
>>
>> The "its" and "it's" with your astounding new variation is NOT
>> the same as e.g. "it belongs to the Richards's family" which is
>> acceptable though clumsy and falling out of use.

>
> Never mind, but you're both wrong.
> Let's discuss something other than its!
>
> the apostrophe after the s is for when the possessed thing is plural,
> nothing to do with position in the sentence.


I guess I must have gotten this wrong all along, so much for ESL.

The apostrophe marks the possessive noun or pronoun, whether the
"possessed thing" is plural or not is irrelevant.
 
E

Elmo

Flightless Bird
John John - MVP wrote:
> GbH wrote:
>> thanatoid wrote:
>>> "RJK" <nosuch@hotmail.com> wrote in
>>> news:eAO7N$wlKHA.1824@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl:
>>>
>>>
>>>> I was taught, (in English at school), that the apostrophe
>>>> goes after the s to indicate that one is referring to a
>>>> subject, or an item, appearing earlier in the sentence.
>>> You were taught wrong. You DO realize that with their advanced
>>> knowledge and general success in life most grade and high school
>>> teachers would do better (both AFA performance AND income) as
>>> garbage collectors? (Well... make your own jokes here...)
>>>
>>>> Of course it is positioned between the t and s to indicate
>>>> abbreviation. That's what my English teacher taught, many,
>>>> ...many years ago ! :) And I'm sticking to it !
>>>> ...defiantly starting a sentence with the word "and"
>>>> !!!!!!
>>> Starting a sentence with and is not a problem. My original
>>> comment IS about a problem which I suggest you correct.
>>>
>>> The "its" and "it's" with your astounding new variation is NOT
>>> the same as e.g. "it belongs to the Richards's family" which is
>>> acceptable though clumsy and falling out of use.

>>
>> Never mind, but you're both wrong.
>> Let's discuss something other than its!
>>
>> the apostrophe after the s is for when the possessed thing is plural,
>> nothing to do with position in the sentence.

>
> I guess I must have gotten this wrong all along, so much for ESL.
>
> The apostrophe marks the possessive noun or pronoun, whether the
> "possessed thing" is plural or not is irrelevant.


Pronouns have their own word-forms for possession. Though the following
is off the top of my head, may not be complete and may contain an error
or two, such as when some forms of the word are used, it does show that
the apostrophe isn't used with ANY pronoun for possession. I really
don't want to start an argument, and feel that the current method of
teaching reading causes these errors, not an individual's intelligence.
So please don't take this as criticism of anyone's grammar.

Pronoun He She It
Plural They They They
Object Him Her It
Plural Ob. Them Them Them
Poss. His Her/s Its
Plural poss Their Their Their
Pl Poss Obj Theirs Theirs Theirs

Contractions
He is e.g. He's She's It's
They are They're They're They're
He will He'll She'll It'll

--
Joe =o)
 
P

Pegasus [MVP]

Flightless Bird
"Elmo" <elmogeek@xxx.invalid> said this in news item
news:eK05il4lKHA.5656@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> John John - MVP wrote:
>> GbH wrote:
>>> thanatoid wrote:
>>>> "RJK" <nosuch@hotmail.com> wrote in
>>>> news:eAO7N$wlKHA.1824@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I was taught, (in English at school), that the apostrophe
>>>>> goes after the s to indicate that one is referring to a
>>>>> subject, or an item, appearing earlier in the sentence.
>>>> You were taught wrong. You DO realize that with their advanced
>>>> knowledge and general success in life most grade and high school
>>>> teachers would do better (both AFA performance AND income) as
>>>> garbage collectors? (Well... make your own jokes here...)
>>>>
>>>>> Of course it is positioned between the t and s to indicate
>>>>> abbreviation. That's what my English teacher taught, many,
>>>>> ...many years ago ! :) And I'm sticking to it !
>>>>> ...defiantly starting a sentence with the word "and"
>>>>> !!!!!!
>>>> Starting a sentence with and is not a problem. My original
>>>> comment IS about a problem which I suggest you correct.
>>>>
>>>> The "its" and "it's" with your astounding new variation is NOT
>>>> the same as e.g. "it belongs to the Richards's family" which is
>>>> acceptable though clumsy and falling out of use.
>>>
>>> Never mind, but you're both wrong.
>>> Let's discuss something other than its!
>>>
>>> the apostrophe after the s is for when the possessed thing is plural,
>>> nothing to do with position in the sentence.

>>
>> I guess I must have gotten this wrong all along, so much for ESL.
>>
>> The apostrophe marks the possessive noun or pronoun, whether the
>> "possessed thing" is plural or not is irrelevant.

>
> Pronouns have their own word-forms for possession. Though the following
> is off the top of my head, may not be complete and may contain an error
> or two, such as when some forms of the word are used, it does show that
> the apostrophe isn't used with ANY pronoun for possession. I really
> don't want to start an argument, and feel that the current method of
> teaching reading causes these errors, not an individual's intelligence.
> So please don't take this as criticism of anyone's grammar.
>
> Pronoun He She It
> Plural They They They
> Object Him Her It
> Plural Ob. Them Them Them
> Poss. His Her/s Its
> Plural poss Their Their Their
> Pl Poss Obj Theirs Theirs Theirs
>
> Contractions
> He is e.g. He's She's It's
> They are They're They're They're
> He will He'll She'll It'll
>
> --
> Joe =o)


Glad to see a clear explanation in all this confusion. To repeat and expand
Joe's list:
Pronoun He She It
Plural They They They
Object Him Her It
Plural Ob. Them Them Them
Poss. His Her Its
Plural poss Their Their Their
Pl Poss Obj Theirs Theirs Theirs

Contractions
He is e.g. He's She's It's
They are They're They're They're
He will He'll She'll It'll

Nouns, Names
The dog's tail
Peter's house
The privates' leader (many privates)

And the most popular and horrible mistakes:
The dog bark's (The dog barks)
I own two car's (I own two cars)
The dog wags it's tail (The dog wags its tail)
The dog wags its' tail (The dog wags its tail)
I own three PC's (I own three PCs - it's an ordinary plural!)

The last mistake is so popular and so widespread that it will probably
became part of the English language within a decade or two. I often wonder
how this could have happened: Computers are extremely particular when it
comes to syntax in programming yet programmers appear to be the worst
offenders when using/abusing human languages.
 
J

John John - MVP

Flightless Bird
Elmo wrote:
> John John - MVP wrote:
>> GbH wrote:
>>> thanatoid wrote:
>>>> "RJK" <nosuch@hotmail.com> wrote in
>>>> news:eAO7N$wlKHA.1824@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I was taught, (in English at school), that the apostrophe
>>>>> goes after the s to indicate that one is referring to a
>>>>> subject, or an item, appearing earlier in the sentence.
>>>> You were taught wrong. You DO realize that with their advanced
>>>> knowledge and general success in life most grade and high school
>>>> teachers would do better (both AFA performance AND income) as
>>>> garbage collectors? (Well... make your own jokes here...)
>>>>
>>>>> Of course it is positioned between the t and s to indicate
>>>>> abbreviation. That's what my English teacher taught, many,
>>>>> ...many years ago ! :) And I'm sticking to it !
>>>>> ...defiantly starting a sentence with the word "and"
>>>>> !!!!!!
>>>> Starting a sentence with and is not a problem. My original
>>>> comment IS about a problem which I suggest you correct.
>>>>
>>>> The "its" and "it's" with your astounding new variation is NOT
>>>> the same as e.g. "it belongs to the Richards's family" which is
>>>> acceptable though clumsy and falling out of use.
>>> Never mind, but you're both wrong.
>>> Let's discuss something other than its!
>>>
>>> the apostrophe after the s is for when the possessed thing is plural,
>>> nothing to do with position in the sentence.

>> I guess I must have gotten this wrong all along, so much for ESL.
>>
>> The apostrophe marks the possessive noun or pronoun, whether the
>> "possessed thing" is plural or not is irrelevant.

>
> Pronouns have their own word-forms for possession. Though the following
> is off the top of my head, may not be complete and may contain an error
> or two, such as when some forms of the word are used, it does show that
> the apostrophe isn't used with ANY pronoun for possession.


It's anybody's guess but somebody's list of pronouns might be different
than one's own list...

(Slow day in the newsgroups ;-) )

John
 
T

thanatoid

Flightless Bird
"GbH" <Geoff_Hannington@IEE.ORGasm> wrote in
news:-On3zt32lKHA.6096@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl:

> thanatoid wrote:
>> "RJK" <nosuch@hotmail.com> wrote in
>> news:eAO7N$wlKHA.1824@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl:
>>
>>> I was taught, (in English at school), that the apostrophe
>>> goes after the s to indicate that one is referring to a
>>> subject, or an item, appearing earlier in the sentence.

>>
>> You were taught wrong. You DO realize that with their
>> advanced knowledge and general success in life most grade
>> and high school teachers would do better (both AFA
>> performance AND income) as garbage collectors? (Well...
>> make your own jokes here...)
>>
>>> Of course it is positioned between the t and s to
>>> indicate abbreviation. That's what my English teacher
>>> taught, many, ...many years ago ! :) And I'm sticking
>>> to it ! ...defiantly starting a sentence with the word
>>> "and" !!!!!!

>>
>> Starting a sentence with and is not a problem. My original
>> comment IS about a problem which I suggest you correct.
>>
>> The "its" and "it's" with your astounding new variation is
>> NOT the same as e.g. "it belongs to the Richards's family"
>> which is acceptable though clumsy and falling out of use.

>
> Never mind, but you're both wrong.


Where am /I/ wrong?

<SNIP>


--
There are only two classifications of disk drives: Broken drives
and those that will break later.
- Chuck Armstrong (This one I think, http://www.cleanreg.com/,
not the ball player. But who knows. I can't remember where I got
the quote. But it's true.)
 
T

thanatoid

Flightless Bird
"Pegasus [MVP]" <news@microsoft.com> wrote in
news:eUFVXQ5lKHA.2680@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl:

<SNIP>

> And the most popular and horrible mistakes:
> The dog bark's (The dog barks)
> I own two car's (I own two cars)
> The dog wags it's tail (The dog wags its tail)
> The dog wags its' tail (The dog wags its tail)
> I own three PC's (I own three PCs - it's an ordinary
> plural!)
>
> The last mistake is so popular and so widespread


It is not a mistake. Abbreviations (such as PC, VCR, DVD, IQ,
etc.) /should/ have an apostrophe before the s indicating
plural. I thought it was a mistake too but I researched it.

> will probably became part of the English language within a
> decade or two. I often wonder how this could have happened:
> Computers are extremely particular when it comes to syntax
> in programming yet programmers appear to be the worst
> offenders when using/abusing human languages.


Like most people, most programmers are illiterate. Geniuses have
been dyslexic and illiterate, but few programmers are geniuses.


--
There are only two classifications of disk drives: Broken drives
and those that will break later.
- Chuck Armstrong (This one I think, http://www.cleanreg.com/,
not the ball player. But who knows. I can't remember where I got
the quote. But it's true.)
 
G

GbH

Flightless Bird
John John - MVP wrote:
> GbH wrote:
>> thanatoid wrote:
>>> "RJK" <nosuch@hotmail.com> wrote in
>>> news:eAO7N$wlKHA.1824@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl:
>>>
>>>
>>>> I was taught, (in English at school), that the apostrophe
>>>> goes after the s to indicate that one is referring to a
>>>> subject, or an item, appearing earlier in the sentence.
>>> You were taught wrong. You DO realize that with their advanced
>>> knowledge and general success in life most grade and high school
>>> teachers would do better (both AFA performance AND income) as
>>> garbage collectors? (Well... make your own jokes here...)
>>>
>>>> Of course it is positioned between the t and s to indicate
>>>> abbreviation. That's what my English teacher taught, many,
>>>> ...many years ago ! :) And I'm sticking to it !
>>>> ...defiantly starting a sentence with the word "and"
>>>> !!!!!!
>>> Starting a sentence with and is not a problem. My original
>>> comment IS about a problem which I suggest you correct.
>>>
>>> The "its" and "it's" with your astounding new variation is NOT
>>> the same as e.g. "it belongs to the Richards's family" which is
>>> acceptable though clumsy and falling out of use.

>>
>> Never mind, but you're both wrong.
>> Let's discuss something other than its!
>>
>> the apostrophe after the s is for when the possessed thing is plural,
>> nothing to do with position in the sentence.

>
> I guess I must have gotten this wrong all along, so much for ESL.
>
> The apostrophe marks the possessive noun or pronoun, whether the
> "possessed thing" is plural or not is irrelevant.


I'm trying desperately to think of a definitive example but cannot right
now. Suffice to say plurality is not irrelevant.

However, it could be I is confused! My analysis holds if the possessive
noun is plural, ie the possessor not the possessed!

--
Geoff
ExploitEd

Wisdom and experience come with age, they say, but I do wish I could
remember the darn question
 
P

Pegasus [MVP]

Flightless Bird
"thanatoid" <waiting@the.exit.invalid> said this in news item
news:Xns9D038E91F6951thanexit@188.40.43.245...
> "Pegasus [MVP]" <news@microsoft.com> wrote in
> news:eUFVXQ5lKHA.2680@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl:
>
> <SNIP>
>
>> And the most popular and horrible mistakes:
>> The dog bark's (The dog barks)
>> I own two car's (I own two cars)
>> The dog wags it's tail (The dog wags its tail)
>> The dog wags its' tail (The dog wags its tail)
>> I own three PC's (I own three PCs - it's an ordinary
>> plural!)
>>
>> The last mistake is so popular and so widespread

>
> It is not a mistake. Abbreviations (such as PC, VCR, DVD, IQ,
> etc.) /should/ have an apostrophe before the s indicating
> plural. I thought it was a mistake too but I researched it.


Seeing that plurals are generally formed by adding a trailing "s", you need
to quote an authoritative reference that states whether acronyms (not
abbreviations...) should be treated differently.
 
T

thanatoid

Flightless Bird
"Pegasus [MVP]" <news@microsoft.com> wrote in
news:#fFRZF7lKHA.5040@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl:

<SNIP>

> Seeing that plurals are generally formed by adding a
> trailing "s", you need to quote an authoritative reference
> that states whether acronyms (not abbreviations...) should
> be treated differently.


I appreciate your attitude, but I won't bother. I /think/ it was
in my 'Merriam-Webster's Guide To Modern English Usage' or
something.

BUT, since I have no life and lot's (sic) of f'ree (sic) ti'me
(sic), I DID bother:

(assuming ANYTHING on the internet can be considered an
"authoritative reference"...)

"Notice, furthermore, that we do not use an apostrophe to create
plurals in the following:

The 1890s in Europe are widely regarded as years of social
decadence.
I have prepared 1099s for the entire staff.
Rosa and her brother have identical IQs, and they both have PhDs
from Harvard.
She has over 400 URLs* in her bookmark file.

Authority for this last paragraph: Keys for Writers: A Brief
Handbook by Ann Raimes. Houghton Mifflin: New York. 1996."

(somewhere Google led me)

and

"To form the plural of an abbreviation, a number, or a capital
letter
used as a noun, simply add an 's' to the end.

- A group of MPs
- The late 1940s
- Mind your Ps and Qs

To form the plural of an abbreviation with periods, a lowercase
letter
used as a noun, and abbreviations or capital letters that would
be
ambiguous or confusing if the 's' alone were added, use an
apostrophe
and an 's'.

- A group of M.P.'s
- The x's in the equation
- Sending SOS's"

Writer's Block: Plural and Possessive Abbreviations

http://www.writersblock.ca/tips/monthtip/tipmar96.htm

"Proper Use of the Apostrophe to Form Plurals

An apostrophe is also used to form some plurals, especially the
plural
of letters, symbols, and digits.

- Regina received four A's on her report card.
- Timothy used too many &'s in his paper.
- The judges gave the diver two 9's and two 8's.

It is no longer considered necessary or even correct to create
the
plural of years or decades or abbreviations with an apostrophe.

- He wrote several novels during the 1930s.
- There are fifteen PhDs on our faculty.
- My sister and I have identical IQs.

(If you wrote Ph.D. with periods, you would add an apostrophe
before
the pluralizing 's': Ph.D.'s) If the abbreviation ends in 'S,'
it's a
good idea to separate this final 'S' from the pluralizing 's'
with an
apostrophe: SOS's"

EditFast Grammar Resource: Apostrophes: Forming Plurals
http://www.editfast.com/english/grammar/apostrophes/apostrophe_p
lurals.htm

It should be noted that, in this matter, the New York Times does
not
observe the generally-accepted rules:

"Use of plurals is another area of confusion to authors and
editors.
As with everything, Chicago/Turabian style takes precedence in
this
project. One area of specific confusion when it comes to
computer
terms is with acronyms. Most people mistakenly add an apostrophe
and
letter 's' to make an acronym plural. The major proponent of
this
incorrect method is 'The New York Times,' even though all
publishing
houses and computer magazines agree that it is wrong.

The correct method is just to add the letter 's' to the acronym.
Here
are some examples:

PBXs (not PBX's)
VLANs (not VLAN's)
NICs (not NIC's)
PCs (not PC's)

The possessive of an acronym plural has the apostrophe after the
s.

PBXs'
VLANs'
NICs'
PCs'

The only time we accept an 's is when the acronym is separated
with
periods. For example, Ph.D.'s."

Computer Dictionary Project
http://computerdictionary.tsf.org.za/project/

Google search strategy:

Google Web Search: abbreviation plural apostrophe
://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=abbreviation+plural+apostrophe

I hope this clears things up a bit. Basically, it's best to take
it
easy with the apostrophes. But if you use 'em and somebody
criticizes
your usage, you can always point to the New York Times as your
model.

Best,
Pink"

(somewhere else Google led me)

/BUT/

"Apostrophes in Plurals
The plurals of abbreviations, letters and numbers can be written
using apostrophes.

Examples:

He sent 3 SOS's between midnight and 6 a.m.
There are two a's in accommodation.
Your 2's look like your 7's.
1000's of bargains."

(yet somewhere else Google led me)

AND

"Including the apostrophe is the older usage, but is still
considered standard, along with the newer practice, at least in
American English. The apostrophe continues to be preferable when
presented in an environment of all-capital letters (as in some
store signs): CD'S, DVD'S."

(yet somewhere /else/ Google led me)

So I gues's its what you want's it to be's.
English, like art, is dead.
Long live the NWO.

thanatoid ha's sp'oken.

--
There are only two classifications of disk drives: Broken drives
and those that will break later.
- Chuck Armstrong (This one I think, http://www.cleanreg.com/,
not the ball player. But who knows. I can't remember where I got
the quote. But it's true.)
 
P

Pegasus [MVP]

Flightless Bird
"thanatoid" <waiting@the.exit.invalid> said this in news item
news:Xns9D0393DEF89C4thanexit@188.40.43.245...
> "Pegasus [MVP]" <news@microsoft.com> wrote in
> news:#fFRZF7lKHA.5040@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl:
>
> <SNIP>
>
>> Seeing that plurals are generally formed by adding a
>> trailing "s", you need to quote an authoritative reference
>> that states whether acronyms (not abbreviations...) should
>> be treated differently.

>
> I appreciate your attitude, but I won't bother. I /think/ it was
> in my 'Merriam-Webster's Guide To Modern English Usage' or
> something.
>
> BUT, since I have no life and lot's (sic) of f'ree (sic) ti'me
> (sic), I DID bother:
>
> (assuming ANYTHING on the internet can be considered an
> "authoritative reference"...)
>
> "Notice, furthermore, that we do not use an apostrophe to create
> plurals in the following:
>
> The 1890s in Europe are widely regarded as years of social
> decadence.
> I have prepared 1099s for the entire staff.
> Rosa and her brother have identical IQs, and they both have PhDs
> from Harvard.
> She has over 400 URLs* in her bookmark file.
>
> Authority for this last paragraph: Keys for Writers: A Brief
> Handbook by Ann Raimes. Houghton Mifflin: New York. 1996."
>
> (somewhere Google led me)
>
> and
>
> "To form the plural of an abbreviation, a number, or a capital
> letter
> used as a noun, simply add an 's' to the end.
>
> - A group of MPs
> - The late 1940s
> - Mind your Ps and Qs
>
> To form the plural of an abbreviation with periods, a lowercase
> letter
> used as a noun, and abbreviations or capital letters that would
> be
> ambiguous or confusing if the 's' alone were added, use an
> apostrophe
> and an 's'.
>
> - A group of M.P.'s
> - The x's in the equation
> - Sending SOS's"
>
> Writer's Block: Plural and Possessive Abbreviations
>
> http://www.writersblock.ca/tips/monthtip/tipmar96.htm
>
> "Proper Use of the Apostrophe to Form Plurals
>
> An apostrophe is also used to form some plurals, especially the
> plural
> of letters, symbols, and digits.
>
> - Regina received four A's on her report card.
> - Timothy used too many &'s in his paper.
> - The judges gave the diver two 9's and two 8's.
>
> It is no longer considered necessary or even correct to create
> the
> plural of years or decades or abbreviations with an apostrophe.
>
> - He wrote several novels during the 1930s.
> - There are fifteen PhDs on our faculty.
> - My sister and I have identical IQs.
>
> (If you wrote Ph.D. with periods, you would add an apostrophe
> before
> the pluralizing 's': Ph.D.'s) If the abbreviation ends in 'S,'
> it's a
> good idea to separate this final 'S' from the pluralizing 's'
> with an
> apostrophe: SOS's"
>
> EditFast Grammar Resource: Apostrophes: Forming Plurals
> http://www.editfast.com/english/grammar/apostrophes/apostrophe_p
> lurals.htm
>
> It should be noted that, in this matter, the New York Times does
> not
> observe the generally-accepted rules:
>
> "Use of plurals is another area of confusion to authors and
> editors.
> As with everything, Chicago/Turabian style takes precedence in
> this
> project. One area of specific confusion when it comes to
> computer
> terms is with acronyms. Most people mistakenly add an apostrophe
> and
> letter 's' to make an acronym plural. The major proponent of
> this
> incorrect method is 'The New York Times,' even though all
> publishing
> houses and computer magazines agree that it is wrong.
>
> The correct method is just to add the letter 's' to the acronym.
> Here
> are some examples:
>
> PBXs (not PBX's)
> VLANs (not VLAN's)
> NICs (not NIC's)
> PCs (not PC's)
>
> The possessive of an acronym plural has the apostrophe after the
> s.
>
> PBXs'
> VLANs'
> NICs'
> PCs'
>
> The only time we accept an 's is when the acronym is separated
> with
> periods. For example, Ph.D.'s."
>
> Computer Dictionary Project
> http://computerdictionary.tsf.org.za/project/
>
> Google search strategy:
>
> Google Web Search: abbreviation plural apostrophe
> ://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=abbreviation+plural+apostrophe
>
> I hope this clears things up a bit. Basically, it's best to take
> it
> easy with the apostrophes. But if you use 'em and somebody
> criticizes
> your usage, you can always point to the New York Times as your
> model.
>
> Best,
> Pink"
>
> (somewhere else Google led me)
>
> /BUT/
>
> "Apostrophes in Plurals
> The plurals of abbreviations, letters and numbers can be written
> using apostrophes.
>
> Examples:
>
> He sent 3 SOS's between midnight and 6 a.m.
> There are two a's in accommodation.
> Your 2's look like your 7's.
> 1000's of bargains."
>
> (yet somewhere else Google led me)
>
> AND
>
> "Including the apostrophe is the older usage, but is still
> considered standard, along with the newer practice, at least in
> American English. The apostrophe continues to be preferable when
> presented in an environment of all-capital letters (as in some
> store signs): CD'S, DVD'S."
>
> (yet somewhere /else/ Google led me)
>
> So I gues's its what you want's it to be's.
> English, like art, is dead.
> Long live the NWO.
>
> thanatoid ha's sp'oken.
>
> --
> There are only two classifications of disk drives: Broken drives
> and those that will break later.
> - Chuck Armstrong (This one I think, http://www.cleanreg.com/,
> not the ball player. But who knows. I can't remember where I got
> the quote. But it's true.)


Wow, I'm impressed! Anyway, your exhaustive if not exhausting collection of
references provides either side with sufficient ammunition when it comes to
making a case for forming the plural of acronyms. I suggested before that
the form "two CPU's" will probably become accepted within a couple of
decades. It seems that it's going to happen much sooner.
 
P

Pegasus [MVP]

Flightless Bird
"GbH" <Geoff_Hannington@IEE.ORGasm> said this in news item
news:#Gv0ZC7lKHA.3840@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
<snip>
> However, it could be I is confused! My analysis holds if the possessive
> noun is plural, ie the possessor not the possessed!
>
> --
> Geoff
> ExploitEd


I is, you is, he is?
 
T

thanatoid

Flightless Bird
"Pegasus [MVP]" <news@microsoft.com> wrote in
news:uYWOMh7lKHA.2164@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl:

<SNIP>

> Wow, I'm impressed! Anyway, your exhaustive if not
> exhausting collection of references


Speaking of exhausting, ever heard of <SNIP>ping???

> provides either side
> with sufficient ammunition when it comes to making a case
> for forming the plural of acronyms. I suggested before that
> the form "two CPU's" will probably become accepted within a
> couple of decades. It seems that it's going to happen much
> sooner.
>
>




--
There are only two classifications of disk drives: Broken drives
and those that will break later.
- Chuck Armstrong (This one I think, http://www.cleanreg.com/,
not the ball player. But who knows. I can't remember where I got
the quote. But it's true.)
 
Top