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Hard drive recovery - better to COPY or use ACRONIS? pls help

D

daviddschool

Flightless Bird
I had a power failure in the neighborhood and thus my one drive now
close to death - ticking and having issues reading. I have a full
view of the files and I have been trying desparately to COPY (using
windows file explorer) to another drive the files that are still
accessible - but I started to think that maybe I should use ACRONIS
backup instead - the copying of files is taking hours even for the
smallest ones, and I don't want the drive to die before I get all I
can, so do you think ACRONIS would be a better way of trying then the
method I am already using?
 
P

Pegasus [MVP]

Flightless Bird
"daviddschool" <daviddschool@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:60fe2255-238e-4efd-a6e1-5d3814797262@u34g2000yqu.googlegroups.com...
> I had a power failure in the neighborhood and thus my one drive now
> close to death - ticking and having issues reading. I have a full
> view of the files and I have been trying desparately to COPY (using
> windows file explorer) to another drive the files that are still
> accessible - but I started to think that maybe I should use ACRONIS
> backup instead - the copying of files is taking hours even for the
> smallest ones, and I don't want the drive to die before I get all I
> can, so do you think ACRONIS would be a better way of trying then the
> method I am already using?


I always gasp when I read about posters who wait for a disaster to happen
before they review their backup policy, e.g. by using Acronis Backup. An
external hard disk in a USB case would cost very little and would make an
excellent backup medium.

If your disk makes clicking noises then it is probably too late for Acronis.
It will most likely terminate when it trips over disk errors. Here are a
couple of alternatives:
a) Connect the disk as a slave disk to some other Windows PC.
b) Boot the machine with a Bart PE boot CD.

In each case you could then use robocopy.exe to salvage your files. This
tool requires familiarity with the Command Console. Ask a friend to assist
you if this is beyond your current expierience.
 
T

Twayne

Flightless Bird
In
news:60fe2255-238e-4efd-a6e1-5d3814797262@u34g2000yqu.googlegroups.com,
daviddschool <daviddschool@gmail.com> typed:
> I had a power failure in the neighborhood and thus my one
> drive now close to death - ticking and having issues
> reading. I have a full view of the files and I have been
> trying desparately to COPY (using windows file explorer) to
> another drive the files that are still accessible - but I
> started to think that maybe I should use ACRONIS backup
> instead - the copying of files is taking hours even for the
> smallest ones, and I don't want the drive to die before I
> get all I can, so do you think ACRONIS would be a better
> way of trying then the method I am already using?


Most definitely! It'll also back up the operating system,
which copying cannot do because it can't copy files that are
"in use".
 
P

Paul

Flightless Bird
daviddschool wrote:
> I had a power failure in the neighborhood and thus my one drive now
> close to death - ticking and having issues reading. I have a full
> view of the files and I have been trying desparately to COPY (using
> windows file explorer) to another drive the files that are still
> accessible - but I started to think that maybe I should use ACRONIS
> backup instead - the copying of files is taking hours even for the
> smallest ones, and I don't want the drive to die before I get all I
> can, so do you think ACRONIS would be a better way of trying then the
> method I am already using?


On the one hand, you never know how close to death the drive is. You could
turn off the power just once more on the PC, and never be able to access
the drive again. So time is of the essence.

File by file copying is likely no different, no matter what tool does it.
The tool will use the file system, to find a pointer to each file, then
read it. That requires some amount of head movement. The long time for
each file, could be caused by some sectors requiring a large number
of reads, before there is a good CRC on the readback.

A program like Microsoft Robocopy, can copy the files from one drive to
another. And it has parameters to control retries and the like.

robocopy F:/ L:/ /mir /copy:datso /dcopy:t /r:3 /w:2 /zb /np /tee /v /log:robocopy_f_to_l.log

(I think there might be a copy of version XP026 in here. Not sure.)
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/2006.11.utilityspotlight.aspx

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robocopy

The other option, is various versions of "dd", to do a sector by sector
copy. The only advantage of that, is the copy is sequential, with
minimal head movement.

I would start, by doing a bad block scan with HDTune from HDTune.com .
If the display shows all green blocks, then the disk is relatively
undamaged. If you are seeing CRC errors, then there is damage.

http://www.hdtune.com/files/hdtune_255.exe

Depending on the extent of the damage, you might want to investigate an
option in here.

http://www.cgsecurity.org/wiki/Damaged_Hard_Disk

If the disk was "all green blocks", you could use the port of "dd" available here.

http://www.chrysocome.net/dd

To use the Chrysocome version, it would look something like this, to copy
the entire hard drive (MBR and its partition table, all partitions), to a second,
equal or slightly larger disk. As far as I know, that "dd" has no provision
for handling errored sectors. Partition0 here, means "the whole disk". The
other numbered partitions, represent the primary partitions on the disk. I
don't know if the program has a mechanism to handle extended (logical)
partitions or not. I've never tried that.

dd --list # this gives the names of the partitions/disks

dd if=\\?\Device\Harddisk0\Partition0 of=\\?\Device\Harddisk1\Partition0

That command would copy Harddisk0 to Harddisk1. You figure out which is
which, based on size information. This utility can show you the four
primary partition entries, and you can correlate the info from the two
environments between them.

ftp://ftp.symantec.com/public/english_us_canada/tools/pq/utilities/PTEDIT32.zip

http://www.vistax64.com/attachments...n-partiton-recovery-dell-xps-420-dell-tbl.gif

When copying individual partitions, I sometimes have permissions problems
with "dd", but I would expect the whole disk copy to work.

If the disk was showing errors, then you'd need something like "ddrescue"
which truncates the time allocated to read a sector. But that would require
booting into Linux, and perhaps by the time you do that, the disk could
be dead.

The only other advice I can give, is time is of the essence. Do whatever
you can to get the important files. I had a dying disk one day, I was tired
and decided to turn off the computer for the night. The next day, the
disk was dead, and I had no further opportunity to do anything. So I
would recommend not power cycling the computer, using USB external
enclosures as a means to adding storage capacity without shutting down
and so on.

If the bad partition is C:, then to copy it, you might have no choice but
to reboot into some other OS to make a copy. I have WinXP and Win2K dual boot
here, and if I need to copy the WinXP disk, I work on it in Win2K. The
file backup tools, could use their own non-WinXP environment to do the
copy. There is also Volume Shadow Service running on your machine, which
supports making copies of a live environment, but I don't know if it has
any limitations as to what cannot be copied or not. So copying the C:
partition can have its issues and risks (in terms of needing to reboot
over and over etc).

For rescue, I recommend at least two spare disks, one for a simple
image copy (dd), the other for any file copy attempts. You should
make sure you have enough space to store the output, before going further.
And don't try to write to the damaged disk.

Good luck,
Paul
 
D

daviddschool

Flightless Bird
On Apr 18, 5:22 pm, Paul <nos...@needed.com> wrote:
> daviddschool wrote:
> > I had a power failure in the neighborhood and thus my one drive now
> > close to death - ticking and having issues reading.  I have a full
> > view of the files and I have been trying desparately to COPY (using
> > windows file explorer) to another drive the files that are still
> > accessible - but I started to think that maybe I should use ACRONIS
> > backup instead - the copying of files is taking hours even for the
> > smallest ones, and I don't want the drive to die before I get all I
> > can, so do you think ACRONIS would be a better way of trying then the
> > method I am already using?

>
> On the one hand, you never know how close to death the drive is. You could
> turn off the power just once more on the PC, and never be able to access
> the drive again. So time is of the essence.
>
> File by file copying is likely no different, no matter what tool does it.
> The tool will use the file system, to find a pointer to each file, then
> read it. That requires some amount of head movement. The long time for
> each file, could be caused by some sectors requiring a large number
> of reads, before there is a good CRC on the readback.
>
> A program like Microsoft Robocopy, can copy the files from one drive to
> another. And it has parameters to control retries and the like.
>
> robocopy F:/ L:/ /mir /copy:datso /dcopy:t /r:3 /w:2 /zb /np /tee /v /log:robocopy_f_to_l.log
>
> (I think there might be a copy of version XP026 in here. Not sure.)http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/2006.11.utilityspotlight....
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robocopy
>
> The other option, is various versions of "dd", to do a sector by sector
> copy. The only advantage of that, is the copy is sequential, with
> minimal head movement.
>
> I would start, by doing a bad block scan with HDTune from HDTune.com .
> If the display shows all green blocks, then the disk is relatively
> undamaged. If you are seeing CRC errors, then there is damage.
>
> http://www.hdtune.com/files/hdtune_255.exe
>
> Depending on the extent of the damage, you might want to investigate an
> option in here.
>
> http://www.cgsecurity.org/wiki/Damaged_Hard_Disk
>
> If the disk was "all green blocks", you could use the port of "dd" available here.
>
> http://www.chrysocome.net/dd
>
> To use the Chrysocome version, it would look something like this, to copy
> the entire hard drive (MBR and its partition table, all partitions), to asecond,
> equal or slightly larger disk. As far as I know, that "dd" has no provision
> for handling errored sectors. Partition0 here, means "the whole disk". The
> other numbered partitions, represent the primary partitions on the disk. I
> don't know if the program has a mechanism to handle extended (logical)
> partitions or not. I've never tried that.
>
> dd --list                       # this gives the names of the partitions/disks
>
> dd if=\\?\Device\Harddisk0\Partition0 of=\\?\Device\Harddisk1\Partition0
>
> That command would copy Harddisk0 to Harddisk1. You figure out which is
> which, based on size information. This utility can show you the four
> primary partition entries, and you can correlate the info from the two
> environments between them.
>
> ftp://ftp.symantec.com/public/english_us_canada/tools/pq/utilities/PT...
>
> http://www.vistax64.com/attachments/vista-installation-setup/7308d122...
>
> When copying individual partitions, I sometimes have permissions problems
> with "dd", but I would expect the whole disk copy to work.
>
> If the disk was showing errors, then you'd need something like "ddrescue"
> which truncates the time allocated to read a sector. But that would require
> booting into Linux, and perhaps by the time you do that, the disk could
> be dead.
>
> The only other advice I can give, is time is of the essence. Do whatever
> you can to get the important files. I had a dying disk one day, I was tired
> and decided to turn off the computer for the night. The next day, the
> disk was dead, and I had no further opportunity to do anything. So I
> would recommend not power cycling the computer, using USB external
> enclosures as a means to adding storage capacity without shutting down
> and so on.
>
> If the bad partition is C:, then to copy it, you might have no choice but
> to reboot into some other OS to make a copy. I have WinXP and Win2K dual boot
> here, and if I need to copy the WinXP disk, I work on it in Win2K. The
> file backup tools, could use their own non-WinXP environment to do the
> copy. There is also Volume Shadow Service running on your machine, which
> supports making copies of a live environment, but I don't know if it has
> any limitations as to what cannot be copied or not. So copying the C:
> partition can have its issues and risks (in terms of needing to reboot
> over and over etc).
>
> For rescue, I recommend at least two spare disks, one for a simple
> image copy (dd), the other for any file copy attempts. You should
> make sure you have enough space to store the output, before going further..
> And don't try to write to the damaged disk.
>
> Good luck,
>     Paul


Right now, I am in the process of "file X file" recovery - a long and
laborious process, but at least it is reading the files. I have not
had an error yet, but the clicking is persisting and worrying. I
don't know why the power outage affected my slave drive, but there you
go, it did.
The drive that died/dying is my spare drive, also my backup of my
master drive. Over time I have thrown quite a few files on their as
well as my master drive backup, so I would like to get those. The
drive is reading fine, albeit slowly and ticking. I have checked some
of the files I have already recovered and they all work so far -
fingers crossed. I am heading to the bigger files now, might have to
keep this computer running all night to ensure I don't lose this mojo.
i want to try some of the methods you suggested after I attempt to get
all of the files the way I am doing it now. If I get the majority of
them, I will then try to format and recover the drive, using it as a
spare, spare spare drive.
 
L

LD55ZRA

Flightless Bird
daviddschool wrote:

>I had a power failure in the neighborhood and thus my one drive now
>close to death - ticking and having issues reading. I have a full
>view of the files and I have been trying desparately to COPY (using
>windows file explorer) to another drive the files that are still
>accessible - but I started to think that maybe I should use ACRONIS
>backup instead - the copying of files is taking hours even for the
>smallest ones, and I don't want the drive to die before I get all I
>can, so do you think ACRONIS would be a better way of trying then the
>method I am already using?
>
>


Oh no. Probably it is too late to do anything now I suggest continue
finishing copying your data using Windows Explorer as you are doing now
because there is absolutely no guarantee that installing Acronis now is
going to save you any time. Acronis (or even Norton Ghost) is only good
if it is doing the backup regularly rather than once in a life time as
you seem to suggest here!

You should copy your data on an external HD and reformat or install a
new HD then reinstall Windows (with SP3 if XP) and other applications
from scratch. Then when you have done this, create an image of the HD
and store it safely somewhere else. Then copy your data and let your
backup program does all the backup once and schedule it to do the same
on a weekly basis.

There is no other way to protect yourself. that piggy by the name of
Pegasus is talking completely rubbish because he is still gasping for
fresh air.

hth

--
THE INFORMATION IS PROVIDED "AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY
KIND. LD55ZRA DISCLAIMS ALL WARRANTIES, EITHER EXPRESSED OR
IMPLIED, INCLUDING THE WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND
FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. IN NO EVENT SHALL LD55ZRA
OR ITS ASSOCIATES BE LIABLE FOR ANY DAMAGES WHATSOEVER
INCLUDING DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, CONSEQUENTIAL, LOSS OF
BUSINESS PROFITS OR SPECIAL DAMAGES, EVEN IF LD55ZRA OR ITS
ASSOCIATES HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH
DAMAGES. SOME STATES DO NOT ALLOW THE EXCLUSION OR
LIMITATION OF LIABILITY FOR CONSEQUENTIAL OR INCIDENTAL
DAMAGES SO THE FOREGOING LIMITATION MAY NOT APPLY.

Copyright LD55ZRA 2010.
 
D

daviddschool

Flightless Bird
On Apr 18, 5:54 pm, LD55ZRA <LD55...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:
> daviddschool wrote:
> >I had a power failure in the neighborhood and thus my one drive now
> >close to death - ticking and having issues reading.  I have a full
> >view of the files and I have been trying desparately to COPY (using
> >windows file explorer) to another drive the files that are still
> >accessible - but I started to think that maybe I should use ACRONIS
> >backup instead - the copying of files is taking hours even for the
> >smallest ones, and I don't want the drive to die before I get all I
> >can, so do you think ACRONIS would be a better way of trying then the
> >method I am already using?

>
> Oh no.  Probably it is too late to do anything now   I suggest continue
> finishing copying your data using Windows Explorer as you are doing now
> because there is absolutely no guarantee that installing Acronis now is
> going to save you any time.  Acronis (or even Norton Ghost) is only good
> if it is doing the backup regularly rather than once in a life time as
> you seem to suggest here!
>
> You should copy your data on an external HD and reformat or install a
> new HD then reinstall Windows (with SP3 if XP) and other applications
> from scratch.  Then when you have done this, create an image of the HD
> and store it safely somewhere else.  Then copy your data and let your
> backup program does all the backup once and schedule it to do the same
> on a weekly basis.
>
> There is no other way to protect yourself.  that piggy by the name of
> Pegasus is talking completely rubbish because he is still gasping for
> fresh air.
>
> hth
>
> --
> THE INFORMATION IS PROVIDED "AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY
> KIND. LD55ZRA DISCLAIMS ALL WARRANTIES, EITHER EXPRESSED OR
> IMPLIED, INCLUDING THE WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND
> FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. IN NO EVENT SHALL LD55ZRA
> OR ITS ASSOCIATES BE LIABLE FOR ANY DAMAGES WHATSOEVER
> INCLUDING DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, CONSEQUENTIAL, LOSS OF
> BUSINESS PROFITS OR SPECIAL DAMAGES,  EVEN IF LD55ZRA OR ITS
> ASSOCIATES HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH
> DAMAGES. SOME STATES DO NOT ALLOW THE EXCLUSION OR
> LIMITATION OF LIABILITY FOR CONSEQUENTIAL OR INCIDENTAL
> DAMAGES SO THE FOREGOING LIMITATION MAY NOT APPLY.
>
> Copyright LD55ZRA 2010.


Well it finally gave up in the middle of copying a file. I can't seem
to get it to be recognized now. This sucks. I was hoping for a few
more files. Trying other things to get it to go, but nothing seems to
be working. Disk Management doesn't see it. Easy recovery doesn't
even see the drive. It is warm and whirring, but it is not showing up.
 
B

Bill in Co.

Flightless Bird
daviddschool wrote:
> On Apr 18, 5:54 pm, LD55ZRA <LD55...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:
>> daviddschool wrote:
>>> I had a power failure in the neighborhood and thus my one drive now
>>> close to death - ticking and having issues reading. I have a full
>>> view of the files and I have been trying desparately to COPY (using
>>> windows file explorer) to another drive the files that are still
>>> accessible - but I started to think that maybe I should use ACRONIS
>>> backup instead - the copying of files is taking hours even for the
>>> smallest ones, and I don't want the drive to die before I get all I
>>> can, so do you think ACRONIS would be a better way of trying then the
>>> method I am already using?

>>
>> Oh no. Probably it is too late to do anything now I suggest continue
>> finishing copying your data using Windows Explorer as you are doing now
>> because there is absolutely no guarantee that installing Acronis now is
>> going to save you any time. Acronis (or even Norton Ghost) is only good
>> if it is doing the backup regularly rather than once in a life time as
>> you seem to suggest here!
>>
>> You should copy your data on an external HD and reformat or install a
>> new HD then reinstall Windows (with SP3 if XP) and other applications
>> from scratch. Then when you have done this, create an image of the HD
>> and store it safely somewhere else. Then copy your data and let your
>> backup program does all the backup once and schedule it to do the same
>> on a weekly basis.
>>
>> There is no other way to protect yourself. that piggy by the name of
>> Pegasus is talking completely rubbish because he is still gasping for
>> fresh air.
>>
>> hth
>>
>> --
>> THE INFORMATION IS PROVIDED "AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY
>> KIND. LD55ZRA DISCLAIMS ALL WARRANTIES, EITHER EXPRESSED OR
>> IMPLIED, INCLUDING THE WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND
>> FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. IN NO EVENT SHALL LD55ZRA
>> OR ITS ASSOCIATES BE LIABLE FOR ANY DAMAGES WHATSOEVER
>> INCLUDING DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, CONSEQUENTIAL, LOSS OF
>> BUSINESS PROFITS OR SPECIAL DAMAGES, EVEN IF LD55ZRA OR ITS
>> ASSOCIATES HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH
>> DAMAGES. SOME STATES DO NOT ALLOW THE EXCLUSION OR
>> LIMITATION OF LIABILITY FOR CONSEQUENTIAL OR INCIDENTAL
>> DAMAGES SO THE FOREGOING LIMITATION MAY NOT APPLY.
>>
>> Copyright LD55ZRA 2010.

>
> Well it finally gave up in the middle of copying a file. I can't seem
> to get it to be recognized now. This sucks. I was hoping for a few
> more files. Trying other things to get it to go, but nothing seems to
> be working. Disk Management doesn't see it. Easy recovery doesn't
> even see the drive. It is warm and whirring, but it is not showing up.


Another possibility - albeit may be a remote one - would be to put the drive
in the refrigerator or freezer to see if that could help, if you've
exhausted all other options. I heard about this somewhere for failing
drives, but you should research that first, however. Perhaps someone else
here has had some experience with it.
 
L

LD55ZRA

Flightless Bird
daviddschool wrote:
>
>
> Well it finally gave up in the middle of copying a file. I can't seem
> to get it to be recognized now. This sucks. I was hoping for a few
> more files. Trying other things to get it to go, but nothing seems to
> be working. Disk Management doesn't see it. Easy recovery doesn't
> even see the drive. It is warm and whirring, but it is not showing up.



How about booting up in safe mode? What you want at this stage is
to get a backup of your data and so Bill & Co's idea is a good one
and also try booting up in safe mode and see if it is recognized.

Alternative is to get an external enclosure for HD like this:

<http://www.misco.co.uk/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=258841&sku=110340>

hth



--
THE INFORMATION IS PROVIDED "AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY
KIND. LD55ZRA DISCLAIMS ALL WARRANTIES, EITHER EXPRESSED OR
IMPLIED, INCLUDING THE WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND
FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. IN NO EVENT SHALL LD55ZRA
OR ITS ASSOCIATES BE LIABLE FOR ANY DAMAGES WHATSOEVER
INCLUDING DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, CONSEQUENTIAL, LOSS OF
BUSINESS PROFITS OR SPECIAL DAMAGES, EVEN IF LD55ZRA OR ITS
ASSOCIATES HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH
DAMAGES. SOME STATES DO NOT ALLOW THE EXCLUSION OR
LIMITATION OF LIABILITY FOR CONSEQUENTIAL OR INCIDENTAL
DAMAGES SO THE FOREGOING LIMITATION MAY NOT APPLY.

Copyright LD55ZRA 2010.
 
P

Paul

Flightless Bird
daviddschool wrote:

>
> Well it finally gave up in the middle of copying a file. I can't seem
> to get it to be recognized now. This sucks. I was hoping for a few
> more files. Trying other things to get it to go, but nothing seems to
> be working. Disk Management doesn't see it. Easy recovery doesn't
> even see the drive. It is warm and whirring, but it is not showing up.


Toss the model number of the hard drive into Google or some other
search engine. Some hard drives, have characteristic failure modes.
Some failure modes are related to badly written firmware. In some
cases, the drive can be recovered by the end user, using things
like a (TTL level) serial cable and connection to the jumper pins.
You really need to research the model number, to see if your
failure mode is a popular one for that model. In some cases,
there are solutions that don't involve data recovery specialists.

The information below track 0 is probably gone, and that is
why the drive is no longer responding. The drive has to
at least be able to load the heads onto the platter surface,
so if the head assembly was broken, or the platter would not
spin, that is one level of failure. But the drive also needs to
read some stuff off the platter, before it can talk to the
computer, and it is likely that the info below track 0 that
the disk needs, is gone.

But Google the model number first, and see if there is an
easy fix for your symptoms.

The "freezer" treatment for disks, is reserved for a time
when you're done with the disk, and have given up. So it's a
last ditch recovery procedure. If you plan on sending the
drive to a data recovery specialist, then don't do the
freezer thing. If you damage the head assembly by using
the freezer, the data recovery company will charge a
lot of money to open up the drive. They like easy fixes
they can do without opening the drive.

Paul
 
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