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Dual boot in Windows7

Discussion in 'Windows 7' started by Dabbler, Jan 25, 2010.

  1. Dabbler

    Dabbler Flightless Bird

    I am pretty much familiar how dual boot works in XP but I am clueless
    how Windows7 does it. I don't see any boot.ini file in the root
    directory, so it must be a different method. Can anybody give me a hint?
     
  2. Conor

    Conor Flightless Bird

    In article <hjku5k$nab$1@speranza.aioe.org>, Dabbler says...
    >
    > I am pretty much familiar how dual boot works in XP but I am clueless
    > how Windows7 does it. I don't see any boot.ini file in the root
    > directory, so it must be a different method. Can anybody give me a hint?


    bcdedit

    --
    Conor

    I'm not prejudiced. I hate everybody equally.
     
  3. Jolly Polly

    Jolly Polly Flightless Bird

    Conor wrote:
    > In article <hjku5k$nab$1@speranza.aioe.org>, Dabbler says...
    >> I am pretty much familiar how dual boot works in XP but I am clueless
    >> how Windows7 does it. I don't see any boot.ini file in the root
    >> directory, so it must be a different method. Can anybody give me a hint?

    >
    > bcdedit
    >


    EasyBCD at http://neosmart.net/dl.php?id=1
     
  4. R. C. White

    R. C. White Flightless Bird

    Hi, Dabbler.

    Dual-boot with which other OS? Another Windows? Or with Linux or some
    other non-MS OS?

    The only time that Win7 (or Vista) uses boot.ini (or NTLDR or NTDETECT.COM)
    is when you are dual-booting with WinXP (or Win2K).

    Be sure to follow the Golden Rule of dual-booting: Install the newest
    Windows LAST. Win7 Setup.exe knows what to do when it finds WinXP already
    installed, but WinXP has no idea how to handle Win7, which didn't exist when
    WinXP Setup was written. If you install WinXP after Win7, then you'll have
    to run Win7 Setup again to let it re-write the startup files that WinXP's
    Setup will have overwritten.

    The Windows boot process always starts in the System Partition (typically -
    but no necessarily - the first partition on the first HDD) and then branches
    to whichever partition on whichever HDD holds the Windows installation that
    we choose from the opening menu. WinXP uses NTLDR and NTDETECT.COM to start
    and boot.ini to hold the menu of OSes. Win7 uses the file bootmgr and the
    Boot Configuration Data (BCD) held in the Boot folder. In either system,
    all these startup files and folder must be in the Root of the System
    Partition and they all have the System and Hidden attributes.

    When Win7's bootmgr presents the OS menu, the first option is to boot a
    "Previous version of Windows" - previous to Vista. When you select that,
    bootmgr backs out of the way and turns control over to NTLDR, which uses
    boot.ini to present the pre-Vista options, such as WinXP Pro, WinXP 64,
    Win2K, etc. Just like when dual-booting in WinXP, once the OS selection is
    made, that OS starts and all the other options are forgotten - except as
    files and folders taking up space on the disk.

    One difference is that Win7 Setup.exe, when booted from the DVD, assigns the
    letter C: to its own Boot Volume, even if that is the third partition on the
    second HDD, which probably means that the System Volume will be seen as
    Drive D:. This doesn't confuse Windows, but it does confuse a lot of users!
    To make Win7 "inherit" the drive letters previously assigned by WinXP, you
    must boot into WinXP and run Win7's Setup from the WinXP desktop. As with
    WinXP, you can use Disk Management to change the drive letter for any volume
    EXCEPT the System and Boot volumes; those can be changed only by running
    Setup again.

    Win7 comes with a command-line program to manage the BCD; it is called
    BCDEdit.exe. It is about as user-friendly as LinEdit.com and other such
    apps that we used in MS-DOS long ago. :>( Most users prefer to use a
    third-party app, such as EasyBCD, mentioned by another poster, to manage the
    BCD.

    RC
    --
    R. C. White, CPA
    San Marcos, TX
    rc@grandecom.net
    Microsoft Windows MVP
    Windows Live Mail 2009 (14.0.8089.0726) in Win7 Ultimate x64

    "Dabbler" <dabbler@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
    news:hjku5k$nab$1@speranza.aioe.org...
    > I am pretty much familiar how dual boot works in XP but I am clueless how
    > Windows7 does it. I don't see any boot.ini file in the root directory, so
    > it must be a different method. Can anybody give me a hint?
     
  5. Dabbler

    Dabbler Flightless Bird

    "R. C. White" <rc@grandecom.net> wrote in message
    news:laidndAVJM5Ai8PWnZ2dnUVZ_rWdnZ2d@posted.grandecom...
    > Hi, Dabbler.
    >
    > Dual-boot with which other OS? Another Windows? Or with Linux or
    > some other non-MS OS?
    >
    > The only time that Win7 (or Vista) uses boot.ini (or NTLDR or
    > NTDETECT.COM) is when you are dual-booting with WinXP (or Win2K).
    >
    > Be sure to follow the Golden Rule of dual-booting: Install the newest
    > Windows LAST. Win7 Setup.exe knows what to do when it finds WinXP
    > already installed, but WinXP has no idea how to handle Win7, which
    > didn't exist when WinXP Setup was written. If you install WinXP after
    > Win7, then you'll have to run Win7 Setup again to let it re-write the
    > startup files that WinXP's Setup will have overwritten.
    >
    > The Windows boot process always starts in the System Partition
    > (typically - but no necessarily - the first partition on the first
    > HDD) and then branches to whichever partition on whichever HDD holds
    > the Windows installation that we choose from the opening menu. WinXP
    > uses NTLDR and NTDETECT.COM to start and boot.ini to hold the menu of
    > OSes. Win7 uses the file bootmgr and the Boot Configuration Data
    > (BCD) held in the Boot folder. In either system, all these startup
    > files and folder must be in the Root of the System Partition and they
    > all have the System and Hidden attributes.


    Thanks for explaining what BCD stood for because when I was young it
    stood for Binary Coded Decimal numbers. What a difference, huh? ;-)
    Anyway, when I installed Win7 on my laptop that had Vista in one
    partition, the installer automatically set me up for dual boot. So I was
    wondering what I would have to do to eventually remove Vista and
    allocate the whole drive to Win7 that is the first partition on the
    drive right now. I might even replace Vista with a Linux distro to play
    with, at least temporarily, but in that case I should be able to dual
    boot into Win7 and Linux.
     
  6. R. C. White

    R. C. White Flightless Bird

    Hi, Dabbler.

    > Thanks for explaining what BCD stood for because when I was young it stood
    > for Binary Coded Decimal numbers. What a difference, huh? ;-)


    That BCD was a part of EBCDIC, right? I had only a passing acquaintance
    with that because it was mostly for computers much bigger than the ones that
    I was interested in. ;^}

    > I might even replace Vista with a Linux distro to play with, at least
    > temporarily, but in that case I should be able to dual boot into Win7 and
    > Linux.


    I know nothing of Linux except what I read in NGs like this.

    I've been dual-booting since Win95/NT4.0 in about 1998, but always with
    Windows versions only.

    > Anyway, when I installed Win7 on my laptop that had Vista in one
    > partition, the installer automatically set me up for dual boot.


    Right. When we follow the Golden Rule that I mentioned, the latest Setup
    handles all that automatically.

    > So I was wondering what I would have to do to eventually remove Vista and
    > allocate the whole drive to Win7 that is the first partition on the drive
    > right now.


    Most users - even veterans - don't realize that Windows always installs
    itself in TWO segments. The large segment (maybe 10 GB or more in Win7)
    goes into the \Windows folder tree on the partition where we tell Setup to
    install it. That partition becomes the Boot Volume and the \Windows folder
    the Boot Folder. But there is a very small (< 1 M8) segment that ALWAYS
    goes into the System Partition. As I said earlier, this is NOT ALWAYS the
    first partition on the first HDD, but it usually is. The actual location is
    the Active (bootable) primary partition on the HDD currently designated in
    the BIOS as the boot device. But any primary partition or any logical drive
    in an extended partition on any HDD in the computer can become the Boot
    Volume for a Windows installation.

    Most computer users have only a single HDD and many (most?) of those have
    only a single partition, so that previous paragraph is academic for them:
    EVERYTHING is in Drive C:. But, even then, boot-up starts in the System
    Partition and then progresses to the Boot Volume. It just happens that both
    the System Partition and the Boot Volume are Drive C:.

    Most users never quite get straight the "backwards" definitions of "System
    Partition" and "Boot Volume". But this distinction is critical to
    understanding dual-booting - and even to a proper understanding of
    mono-booting. As many have said, we BOOT from the System Partition and keep
    the operating SYSTEM files in the BOOT volume. The reasons for this are
    somewhere in computer antiquity and we are not likely to see them changed,
    so we just have to get familiar with them. See:
    Definitions for system volume and boot volume
    http://support.microsoft.com/kb/314470/EN-US/

    > wondering what I would have to do to eventually remove Vista and allocate
    > the whole drive to Win7 that is the first partition on the drive right
    > now.


    So ALL you need to do to remove Vista is boot into Win7 and delete Vista's
    Boot Folder. Since Vista was installed first, it probably is C:/Windows.
    Win7 Setup may have assigned C: to its own boot volume and another letter -
    probably D: - to the System Partition. If that is true, then the command to
    delete C:/Windows will be refused, since no OS will delete its own boot
    folder. But to Win7, Vista's boot folder is "just another folder and Win7
    will happily delete that. So, just tell Win7 to delete D:/Windows. That
    will leave the System Partition intact, except that all of Vista will be
    gone.

    Then all you have to do is edit the BCD on D: to remove the reference to
    Vista. That's where you'll use BCDEdit.exe or one of the third-party BCD
    editors. You don't actually have to do this edit, but it might be a source
    of confusion until you do.

    RC
    --
    R. C. White, CPA
    San Marcos, TX
    rc@grandecom.net
    Microsoft Windows MVP
    Windows Live Mail 2009 (14.0.8089.0726) in Win7 Ultimate x64

    "Dabbler" <dabbler@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
    news:hjobsv$geh$1@speranza.aioe.org...
    > "R. C. White" <rc@grandecom.net> wrote in message
    > news:laidndAVJM5Ai8PWnZ2dnUVZ_rWdnZ2d@posted.grandecom...
    >> Hi, Dabbler.
    >>
    >> Dual-boot with which other OS? Another Windows? Or with Linux or some
    >> other non-MS OS?
    >>
    >> The only time that Win7 (or Vista) uses boot.ini (or NTLDR or
    >> NTDETECT.COM) is when you are dual-booting with WinXP (or Win2K).
    >>
    >> Be sure to follow the Golden Rule of dual-booting: Install the newest
    >> Windows LAST. Win7 Setup.exe knows what to do when it finds WinXP
    >> already installed, but WinXP has no idea how to handle Win7, which didn't
    >> exist when WinXP Setup was written. If you install WinXP after Win7,
    >> then you'll have to run Win7 Setup again to let it re-write the startup
    >> files that WinXP's Setup will have overwritten.
    >>
    >> The Windows boot process always starts in the System Partition
    >> (typically - but no necessarily - the first partition on the first HDD)
    >> and then branches to whichever partition on whichever HDD holds the
    >> Windows installation that we choose from the opening menu. WinXP uses
    >> NTLDR and NTDETECT.COM to start and boot.ini to hold the menu of OSes.
    >> Win7 uses the file bootmgr and the Boot Configuration Data (BCD) held in
    >> the Boot folder. In either system, all these startup files and folder
    >> must be in the Root of the System Partition and they all have the System
    >> and Hidden attributes.

    >
    > Thanks for explaining what BCD stood for because when I was young it stood
    > for Binary Coded Decimal numbers. What a difference, huh? ;-)
    > Anyway, when I installed Win7 on my laptop that had Vista in one
    > partition, the installer automatically set me up for dual boot. So I was
    > wondering what I would have to do to eventually remove Vista and allocate
    > the whole drive to Win7 that is the first partition on the drive right
    > now. I might even replace Vista with a Linux distro to play with, at least
    > temporarily, but in that case I should be able to dual boot into Win7 and
    > Linux.
     
  7. Ken Blake, MVP

    Ken Blake, MVP Flightless Bird

    On Wed, 27 Jan 2010 09:56:35 -0600, "R. C. White" <rc@grandecom.net>
    wrote:

    > Hi, Dabbler.
    >
    > > Thanks for explaining what BCD stood for because when I was young it stood
    > > for Binary Coded Decimal numbers. What a difference, huh? ;-)

    >
    > That BCD was a part of EBCDIC, right? I had only a passing acquaintance
    > with that because it was mostly for computers much bigger than the ones that
    > I was interested in. ;^}



    EBCDIC was an extended version of the older BCD. EBCDIC stands for
    Extended BCD Interchange Code.

    --
    Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP (Windows Desktop Experience) since 2003
    Please Reply to the Newsgroup
     
  8. H Mc

    H Mc Flightless Bird

    Realy meas Extended Binary Coded Decimal Interchange Code

    "Ken Blake, MVP" <kblake@this.is.an.invalid.domain> wrote in message
    news:go71m5pbum1q9v662smti8m5dto4ku0ukf@4ax.com...
    > On Wed, 27 Jan 2010 09:56:35 -0600, "R. C. White" <rc@grandecom.net>
    > wrote:
    >
    >> Hi, Dabbler.
    >>
    >> > Thanks for explaining what BCD stood for because when I was young it
    >> > stood
    >> > for Binary Coded Decimal numbers. What a difference, huh? ;-)

    >>
    >> That BCD was a part of EBCDIC, right? I had only a passing acquaintance
    >> with that because it was mostly for computers much bigger than the ones
    >> that
    >> I was interested in. ;^}

    >
    >
    > EBCDIC was an extended version of the older BCD. EBCDIC stands for
    > Extended BCD Interchange Code.
    >
    > --
    > Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP (Windows Desktop Experience) since 2003
    > Please Reply to the Newsgroup
     
  9. Ken Blake, MVP

    Ken Blake, MVP Flightless Bird

    On Wed, 27 Jan 2010 16:10:23 -0600, "H Mc" <hmcninch@yahoo.com> wrote:

    > Realy meas Extended Binary Coded Decimal Interchange Code




    Yes, that's what I said. RC correctly said BCD means "Binary Coded
    Decimal" and I added the definition of the "E" and "IC" to that.



    > "Ken Blake, MVP" <kblake@this.is.an.invalid.domain> wrote in message
    > news:go71m5pbum1q9v662smti8m5dto4ku0ukf@4ax.com...
    > > On Wed, 27 Jan 2010 09:56:35 -0600, "R. C. White" <rc@grandecom.net>
    > > wrote:
    > >
    > >> Hi, Dabbler.
    > >>
    > >> > Thanks for explaining what BCD stood for because when I was young it
    > >> > stood
    > >> > for Binary Coded Decimal numbers. What a difference, huh? ;-)
    > >>
    > >> That BCD was a part of EBCDIC, right? I had only a passing acquaintance
    > >> with that because it was mostly for computers much bigger than the ones
    > >> that
    > >> I was interested in. ;^}

    > >
    > >
    > > EBCDIC was an extended version of the older BCD. EBCDIC stands for
    > > Extended BCD Interchange Code.
    > >
    > > --
    > > Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP (Windows Desktop Experience) since 2003
    > > Please Reply to the Newsgroup


    --
    Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP (Windows Desktop Experience) since 2003
    Please Reply to the Newsgroup
     
  10. Dabbler

    Dabbler Flightless Bird

    "Ken Blake, MVP" <kblake@this.is.an.invalid.domain> wrote in message
    news:l2f1m59g07tnpjtetfgq5i54t8fq6fdlsq@4ax.com...
    > Yes, that's what I said. RC correctly said BCD means "Binary Coded
    > Decimal" and I added the definition of the "E" and "IC" to that.


    Actually, there is more to it than that. BCD coding, used by a line of
    Burroughs computers back in the '70s used decimal memory addressing
    scheme where each decimal digit was encoded with binary. So, a memory
    offset of 12, for instance, actually required two digits, with 1 and two
    binary codes in them, respectively. In an EBCDIC system it would only
    take one hex digit ('C'.) I used to program those Burroughs computers,
    so I know. I also coded IBM 360/370 (EBCDIC) computers in assembly. Here
    is a Wikipedia quote about it:

    "Burroughs produced the B2000 or "medium systems" computers aimed
    primarily at the business world. The machines were designed to execute
    COBOL efficiently. This included a BCD (Binary Coded Decimal) based
    arithmetic unit, storing and addressing the main memory using base 10
    numbering instead of binary."

    <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burroughs_Corporation>

    I really liked those computers because they were easy for assembly
    language programmers. Burroughs engineers obviously designed those
    computers with programmers in mind.
     
  11. Ken Blake, MVP

    Ken Blake, MVP Flightless Bird

    On Wed, 27 Jan 2010 17:05:13 -0800, "Dabbler" <dabbler@nospam.invalid>
    wrote:

    > "Ken Blake, MVP" <kblake@this.is.an.invalid.domain> wrote in message
    > news:l2f1m59g07tnpjtetfgq5i54t8fq6fdlsq@4ax.com...
    > > Yes, that's what I said. RC correctly said BCD means "Binary Coded
    > > Decimal" and I added the definition of the "E" and "IC" to that.

    >
    > Actually, there is more to it than that. BCD coding, used by a line of
    > Burroughs computers back in the '70s used decimal memory addressing
    > scheme where each decimal digit was encoded with binary.



    BCD goes back to way before the 70s. My first use of it was in 1962,
    when I started programming the IBM 1401.


    > So, a memory
    > offset of 12, for instance, actually required two digits, with 1 and two
    > binary codes in them, respectively. In an EBCDIC system it would only
    > take one hex digit ('C'.) I used to program those Burroughs computers,
    > so I know. I also coded IBM 360/370 (EBCDIC) computers in assembly. Here
    > is a Wikipedia quote about it:
    >
    > "Burroughs produced the B2000 or "medium systems" computers aimed
    > primarily at the business world. The machines were designed to execute
    > COBOL efficiently. This included a BCD (Binary Coded Decimal) based
    > arithmetic unit, storing and addressing the main memory using base 10
    > numbering instead of binary."
    >
    > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burroughs_Corporation>
    >
    > I really liked those computers because they were easy for assembly
    > language programmers. Burroughs engineers obviously designed those
    > computers with programmers in mind.


    --
    Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP (Windows Desktop Experience) since 2003
    Please Reply to the Newsgroup
     
  12. Dabbler

    Dabbler Flightless Bird

    "Ken Blake, MVP" <kblake@this.is.an.invalid.domain> wrote in message
    news:eek:to1m5d8dm1pb3l842cvdofb9l2vrmloub@4ax.com...

    > BCD goes back to way before the 70s. My first use of it was in 1962,
    > when I started programming the IBM 1401.


    Whoa, you must be even older than I! ;-) Wasn't that IBM 1401 used
    primarily by banks to run reader-sorters?
     
  13. Ken Blake, MVP

    Ken Blake, MVP Flightless Bird

    On Wed, 27 Jan 2010 17:22:38 -0800, "Dabbler" <dabbler@nospam.invalid>
    wrote:

    > "Ken Blake, MVP" <kblake@this.is.an.invalid.domain> wrote in message
    > news:eek:to1m5d8dm1pb3l842cvdofb9l2vrmloub@4ax.com...
    >
    > > BCD goes back to way before the 70s. My first use of it was in 1962,
    > > when I started programming the IBM 1401.

    >
    > Whoa, you must be even older than I! ;-)



    I'm 72.


    > Wasn't that IBM 1401 used
    > primarily by banks to run reader-sorters?



    No. It was a very low-end, but general purpose, computer. It ranged
    from 1.4 to 16KB or RAM. In its day it was far and away the computer
    that sold the most.

    --
    Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP (Windows Desktop Experience) since 2003
    Please Reply to the Newsgroup
     
  14. Gene E. Bloch

    Gene E. Bloch Flightless Bird

    On 1/27/10, Ken Blake, MVP posted:
    > On Wed, 27 Jan 2010 17:22:38 -0800, "Dabbler" <dabbler@nospam.invalid>
    > wrote:


    >> "Ken Blake, MVP" <kblake@this.is.an.invalid.domain> wrote in message
    >> news:eek:to1m5d8dm1pb3l842cvdofb9l2vrmloub@4ax.com...
    >>
    >>> BCD goes back to way before the 70s. My first use of it was in 1962,
    >>> when I started programming the IBM 1401.

    >>
    >> Whoa, you must be even older than I! ;-)



    > I'm 72.



    >> Wasn't that IBM 1401 used
    >> primarily by banks to run reader-sorters?



    > No. It was a very low-end, but general purpose, computer. It ranged
    > from 1.4 to 16KB or RAM. In its day it was far and away the computer
    > that sold the most.


    When I first started in computers, Fall '61, all the computers I knew
    used the 1401 as an intermediary for sending data to the printers,
    which were attached to the 1401. It was a couple of years before I
    realized that the 1401 was a computer in its own right, not a printer.
    I never got to program for it, though.

    --
    Gene Bloch 650.366.4267 lettersatblochg.com
     
  15. Ken Blake, MVP

    Ken Blake, MVP Flightless Bird

    On Wed, 27 Jan 2010 21:38:39 -0800, Gene E. Bloch
    <letters@someplace.invalid> wrote:

    > On 1/27/10, Ken Blake, MVP posted:
    > > On Wed, 27 Jan 2010 17:22:38 -0800, "Dabbler" <dabbler@nospam.invalid>
    > > wrote:

    >
    > >> "Ken Blake, MVP" <kblake@this.is.an.invalid.domain> wrote in message
    > >> news:eek:to1m5d8dm1pb3l842cvdofb9l2vrmloub@4ax.com...
    > >>
    > >>> BCD goes back to way before the 70s. My first use of it was in 1962,
    > >>> when I started programming the IBM 1401.
    > >>
    > >> Whoa, you must be even older than I! ;-)

    >
    >
    > > I'm 72.

    >
    >
    > >> Wasn't that IBM 1401 used
    > >> primarily by banks to run reader-sorters?

    >
    >
    > > No. It was a very low-end, but general purpose, computer. It ranged
    > > from 1.4 to 16KB or RAM. In its day it was far and away the computer
    > > that sold the most.

    >
    > When I first started in computers, Fall '61,



    That's almost exactly one year before me.


    > all the computers I knew
    > used the 1401 as an intermediary for sending data to the printers,
    > which were attached to the 1401.



    Yes, it was commonly used for that in large Data Centers with big
    mainframes.


    > It was a couple of years before I
    > realized that the 1401 was a computer in its own right, not a printer.
    > I never got to program for it, though.



    Its use as a "computer in its own right" was actually far more common
    that the other one.

    --
    Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP (Windows Desktop Experience) since 2003
    Please Reply to the Newsgroup
     
  16. Lord Vetinari

    Lord Vetinari Flightless Bird

    "Dabbler" <dabbler@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
    news:hjqnrt$5dp$1@speranza.aioe.org...
    > "Ken Blake, MVP" <kblake@this.is.an.invalid.domain> wrote in message
    > news:l2f1m59g07tnpjtetfgq5i54t8fq6fdlsq@4ax.com...
    >> Yes, that's what I said. RC correctly said BCD means "Binary Coded
    >> Decimal" and I added the definition of the "E" and "IC" to that.

    >
    > Actually, there is more to it than that. BCD coding, used by a line of
    > Burroughs computers back in the '70s used decimal memory addressing scheme
    > where each decimal digit was encoded with binary. So, a memory offset of
    > 12, for instance, actually required two digits, with 1 and two binary
    > codes in them, respectively. In an EBCDIC system it would only take one
    > hex digit ('C'.) I used to program those Burroughs computers, so I know. I
    > also coded IBM 360/370 (EBCDIC) computers in assembly. Here is a Wikipedia
    > quote about it:


    Heh...I still have my IBM 360/370 Assembly Language book (what shall I do
    with it?)....too bad I suffered from undiagnosed mental illness at the time,
    I became so frustrated, I dropped the class after two weeks. Oh well, if
    I'd gotten my degree, I wouldn't have met my wife.

    > "Burroughs produced the B2000 or "medium systems" computers aimed
    > primarily at the business world. The machines were designed to execute
    > COBOL efficiently. This included a BCD (Binary Coded Decimal) based
    > arithmetic unit, storing and addressing the main memory using base 10
    > numbering instead of binary."
    >
    > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burroughs_Corporation>
    >
    > I really liked those computers because they were easy for assembly
    > language programmers. Burroughs engineers obviously designed those
    > computers with programmers in mind.


    That was kind of them.
     
  17. relic

    relic Flightless Bird

    "Ken Blake, MVP" <kblake@this.is.an.invalid.domain> wrote in message
    news:u9c3m59925nj5rr1v2f8u7p4ve8t3gjoao@4ax.com...
    > On Wed, 27 Jan 2010 21:38:39 -0800, Gene E. Bloch
    > <letters@someplace.invalid> wrote:
    >
    >> On 1/27/10, Ken Blake, MVP posted:
    >> > On Wed, 27 Jan 2010 17:22:38 -0800, "Dabbler" <dabbler@nospam.invalid>
    >> > wrote:

    >>
    >> >> "Ken Blake, MVP" <kblake@this.is.an.invalid.domain> wrote in message
    >> >> news:eek:to1m5d8dm1pb3l842cvdofb9l2vrmloub@4ax.com...
    >> >>
    >> >>> BCD goes back to way before the 70s. My first use of it was in 1962,
    >> >>> when I started programming the IBM 1401.
    >> >>
    >> >> Whoa, you must be even older than I! ;-)

    >>
    >>
    >> > I'm 72.

    >>
    >>
    >> >> Wasn't that IBM 1401 used
    >> >> primarily by banks to run reader-sorters?

    >>
    >>
    >> > No. It was a very low-end, but general purpose, computer. It ranged
    >> > from 1.4 to 16KB or RAM. In its day it was far and away the computer
    >> > that sold the most.

    >>
    >> When I first started in computers, Fall '61,

    >
    >
    > That's almost exactly one year before me.


    Kids! 1959.
     
  18. Lord Vetinari

    Lord Vetinari Flightless Bird

    "relic" <relic2@cjb.net> wrote in message
    news:3fp91l.o95.17.1@news.alt.net...
    >
    > "Ken Blake, MVP" <kblake@this.is.an.invalid.domain> wrote in message
    > news:u9c3m59925nj5rr1v2f8u7p4ve8t3gjoao@4ax.com...
    >> On Wed, 27 Jan 2010 21:38:39 -0800, Gene E. Bloch
    >> <letters@someplace.invalid> wrote:
    >>
    >>> On 1/27/10, Ken Blake, MVP posted:
    >>> > On Wed, 27 Jan 2010 17:22:38 -0800, "Dabbler" <dabbler@nospam.invalid>
    >>> > wrote:
    >>>
    >>> >> "Ken Blake, MVP" <kblake@this.is.an.invalid.domain> wrote in message
    >>> >> news:eek:to1m5d8dm1pb3l842cvdofb9l2vrmloub@4ax.com...
    >>> >>
    >>> >>> BCD goes back to way before the 70s. My first use of it was in 1962,
    >>> >>> when I started programming the IBM 1401.
    >>> >>
    >>> >> Whoa, you must be even older than I! ;-)
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> > I'm 72.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> >> Wasn't that IBM 1401 used
    >>> >> primarily by banks to run reader-sorters?
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> > No. It was a very low-end, but general purpose, computer. It ranged
    >>> > from 1.4 to 16KB or RAM. In its day it was far and away the computer
    >>> > that sold the most.
    >>>
    >>> When I first started in computers, Fall '61,

    >>
    >>
    >> That's almost exactly one year before me.

    >
    > Kids! 1959.


    Ah, that WAS a good year. The Russians hit the moon, and at the same time,
    I was born. Coincidence?
     
  19. Dave Rudisill

    Dave Rudisill Flightless Bird

    >"Lord Vetinari" <ghod@att.net> wrote:

    >"relic" <relic2@cjb.net> wrote in message
    >news:3fp91l.o95.17.1@news.alt.net...
    >
    >
    >> "Ken Blake, MVP" <kblake@this.is.an.invalid.domain> wrote in message
    >> news:u9c3m59925nj5rr1v2f8u7p4ve8t3gjoao@4ax.com...
    >> Kids! 1959.

    >
    >Ah, that WAS a good year. The Russians hit the moon, and at the same time,
    >I was born. Coincidence?


    I was born the same year as the aliens are purported to have
    landed in Roswell.

    Strictly a coincidence.

    We mean your people no harm...

    --
    Dave
     
  20. Gene E. Bloch

    Gene E. Bloch Flightless Bird

    On 1/28/10, Ken Blake, MVP posted:
    > On Wed, 27 Jan 2010 21:38:39 -0800, Gene E. Bloch
    > <letters@someplace.invalid> wrote:


    >> On 1/27/10, Ken Blake, MVP posted:
    >>> On Wed, 27 Jan 2010 17:22:38 -0800, "Dabbler" <dabbler@nospam.invalid>
    >>> wrote:

    >>
    >>>> "Ken Blake, MVP" <kblake@this.is.an.invalid.domain> wrote in message
    >>>> news:eek:to1m5d8dm1pb3l842cvdofb9l2vrmloub@4ax.com...
    >>>>
    >>>>> BCD goes back to way before the 70s. My first use of it was in 1962,
    >>>>> when I started programming the IBM 1401.
    >>>>
    >>>> Whoa, you must be even older than I! ;-)

    >>
    >>
    >>> I'm 72.

    >>
    >>
    >>>> Wasn't that IBM 1401 used
    >>>> primarily by banks to run reader-sorters?

    >>
    >>
    >>> No. It was a very low-end, but general purpose, computer. It ranged
    >>> from 1.4 to 16KB or RAM. In its day it was far and away the computer
    >>> that sold the most.

    >>
    >> When I first started in computers, Fall '61,



    > That's almost exactly one year before me.



    >> all the computers I knew
    >> used the 1401 as an intermediary for sending data to the printers,
    >> which were attached to the 1401.



    > Yes, it was commonly used for that in large Data Centers with big
    > mainframes.



    >> It was a couple of years before I
    >> realized that the 1401 was a computer in its own right, not a printer.
    >> I never got to program for it, though.



    > Its use as a "computer in its own right" was actually far more common
    > that the other one.


    Of course. But initially, I was not exposed to places that were doing
    that. Basically, I handed a box of cards to someone at a window and
    later got the cards and my printout back.

    ....I had no (well, very little) idea what they were doing behind my
    back ;-)

    --
    Gene Bloch 650.366.4267 lettersatblochg.com
     

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