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Differences between Vista and W 7

  • Thread starter Jeff@couldbeinvalid.com
  • Start date
A

Al Smith

Flightless Bird
Dave-UK wrote:
>
> "Al Smith" <invalid@address.com> wrote in message
> news:zxH9n.61929$Db2.57409@edtnps83...
>> Ken Blake, MVP wrote:
>>> On Mon, 01 Feb 2010 17:47:56 GMT, Al Smith<invalid@address.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'm finding Windows 7 to be less stable than my last Os, Windows
>>>> XP. Vista went off my wife's computer so fast, I didn't really get
>>>> a chance to use it. Once I saw that I couldn't do file operations
>>>> with Vista, that was it, I replaced it with XP and never looked
>>>> back. At least I can copy and move files with Windows 7, which is
>>>> an improvement, I guess. But it locks up or crashes more often
>>>> than XP did.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> That may be your experience, but it's very far from everyone's
>>> experience. I've been running the released version here since it first
>>> came out, and the RC for several months before that. Neither one has
>>> *ever* crashed or locked up on me. And I know many others with similar
>>> experiences.
>>>
>>> I had no problems with Vista either.
>>>
>>> Since your experience is different, you should be looking hard for
>>> problems on your machine. Perhaps malware infection?
>>>
>>>

>>
>> LOL, some say that Microsoft software is itself malware. I run a clean
>> computer. I don't have malware. Even so, I get lockups of programs
>> that require a hard reboot (because the monitor screen fails to
>> respond at all), spontaneous reboots, and blue screens. Doesn't happen
>> often, but it happens. I put this down to *probably* the older
>> programs that I am running. It is, of course, possible that I have a
>> flaw in one of my RAM chips. But I'm not going to blame my hardware
>> just yet, for what I believe is software instability. The problem I
>> had with dragging windows is gone, thanks to an update in the nVidia
>> driver.
>>
>> -Al-

>
> If you haven't already done so, here are a couple of things you might
> look at to find out why your machine is so unstable. Have a look in the
> Event Viewer:
> Control Panel
> System and Security
> Administrative tools
> Event Viewer
> Under Custom Views > Administrative events is a summary of errors
> from the individual logs files listed in the left pane.
>
> and the reliability history,
>
> Reliability History Graph:
> Control Panel
> System and Security
> Action Center
> Maintenance > drop down menu > View Reliability history.
> Select to view by Days and click on an item to view details.
>



Thanks for the tips. I keep working on my system, making it more
lean and hopefully more stable. Last night I finally tracked down
a problem that I mentioned here, that has been driving me nuts ...
constant, regular accessing of my external USB drive. I'd tried
everything I could think of. Last night I ran Process Monitor and
set it to show only programs. I turned them off, one after
another. Finally, the very *last* thing I tried seemed to do the
trick -- I turned off active scan in Windows Defender. The
external drive doesn't chug any longer.

It was worth the effort, because I was able to shut down some
worthless things that were running for nothing. Did you know that
nVidia has 3D turned on by default? It runs in the background all
the time as a service, and in the past at least has given
considerable problems to users through excessive CPU use. I was
able to shut that down, along with several other things -- several
search functions that were still running, for example.

I think the main reason I've had instability problems has been the
older games I play, coupled with the original nVidia driver, which
had some sort of bug in it that applied specifically to my Dell
computer. I'm experimenting with running the games in various
compatibility modes to find which works the best.

-Al-
 
O

Ophelia

Flightless Bird
"Tom Lake" <tlake@twcny.rr.com> wrote in message
news:hk9gag$lrk$2@news.albasani.net...
>
> <Jeff@couldbeinvalid.com> wrote in message
> news:DRA9n.34163$BV.9125@newsfe07.iad...
>> I moved from XP to Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit. Often when I ask for
>> advice about something in W 7 I am referred to a source for Vista which
>> makes me ask the question: how different are Vista and W 7 other than the
>> friendlier uac and cosmetics?
>>
>> Thanks. Jeff

>
> One non-technical difference is that my wife (a techno-phobe)
> who won't use Vista at all loves Win 7. It's smoother, less intrusive
> and just seems much more polished than Vista. I'm a systems
> administrator and I've found that calls to my help desk have
> dropped dramatically since I deployed Win 7. I use Ubuntu at home
> (but not on my wife's computer!) and that's quite impressive but
> all-in-all, Win 7 seems to be the Grail which MS was seeking. Now my
> question is, "Where do they go from here?"


Oh puleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeze... NOWHERE!!!!!!!!!

I loved my XP but now I am just getting used to Win7 so please.............
let us stay with it for the forseeable... :))
--
--
https://www.shop.helpforheroes.org.uk/
 
S

Seth

Flightless Bird
"Bill Yanaire, ESQ" <bill@yanaire.org> wrote in message
news:4b685231$1@news.x-privat.org...
>
>
> "Seth" <seth_lermanNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:hk9j14$11t$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>> "Bill Yanaire, ESQ" <bill@yanaire.org> wrote in message
>> news:4b684e71@news.x-privat.org...
>>>
>>>
>>> "Seth" <seth_lermanNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:hk91un$dou$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>> "Frank" <fb@amk.cmo> wrote in message
>>>> news:4b675ae3$1@news.x-privat.org...
>>>>> Peter Foldes wrote:
>>>>>> Alias
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It was concerning you since most of the time you are a bit off base.
>>>>>> This time you were right on
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> So what "proof" do you have that Windows 7 is actually Vista SE?
>>>>> I'm sure we'd all like to see it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Vista and Server 2008 use the same core.
>>>>
>>>> W7 and Server 2008R2 use the same core.
>>>>
>>>> R2=SE
>>>>
>>>
>>> Just because software products share some code doesn't make W7 a service
>>> pack.

>>
>> I never said service pack. SE =! SP
>>
>>> Windows 7 was a major re-write with some routines ported over. It's
>>> done all the time. You want to believe Windows 7 is Vista SP3 then go
>>> ahead. You probably also believe that Alias makes $14k a week! LOL!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Vista was renamed purely due to marketing. They had to shed the
>>>> "Vista" name and the bad taste that came with it.
>>>
>>> Did you attend the meetings? Didn't think so.

>>
>> Some of them, actually yes. Where I work we often go to these. As the
>> lead desktop engineer for a firm 140,000 users large, I am often the one
>> who attends.

>
> I meant attending the meetings regarding Windows 7 at Microsoft. You
> didn't attend those meetings so you really haven't a clue as to what went
> on with regards to naming conventions and what code was used.


And those are the meetings I attended. At Microsoft campus.

>>>> While this has not been directly stated, it has been implied by MS,
>>>> most notably by the Server Dev team.
>>>
>>> Who gives a rats ass. When going to the store for a new OS, ask for
>>> Vista Service Pack 3. Let's see what you get to take to the register.
>>> Then go ask for Windows 7 and again see what you can take to the
>>> register.

>>
>> Again, I never said SP. And I never said it would show up on the shelf
>> as Vista SP. Doesn't change the underpinnings of the kernel, it's code
>> base and source.
>>
>> You're too full of hatred and vitriol to think clearly.
>>

>
> It's just funny how people believe that Windows 7 is really a Vista
> service pack. I have a bridge in Arizona I'd like to sell you.


Again, you're the one saying service pack, not me. SE is different from SP.
 
L

LouB

Flightless Bird
Ophelia wrote:
>
>
> "Tom Lake" <tlake@twcny.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:hk9gag$lrk$2@news.albasani.net...
>>
>> <Jeff@couldbeinvalid.com> wrote in message
>> news:DRA9n.34163$BV.9125@newsfe07.iad...
>>> I moved from XP to Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit. Often when I ask
>>> for advice about something in W 7 I am referred to a source for Vista
>>> which makes me ask the question: how different are Vista and W 7
>>> other than the friendlier uac and cosmetics?
>>>
>>> Thanks. Jeff

>>
>> One non-technical difference is that my wife (a techno-phobe)
>> who won't use Vista at all loves Win 7. It's smoother, less intrusive
>> and just seems much more polished than Vista. I'm a systems
>> administrator and I've found that calls to my help desk have
>> dropped dramatically since I deployed Win 7. I use Ubuntu at home
>> (but not on my wife's computer!) and that's quite impressive but
>> all-in-all, Win 7 seems to be the Grail which MS was seeking. Now my
>> question is, "Where do they go from here?"

>
> Oh puleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeze... NOWHERE!!!!!!!!!
>
> I loved my XP but now I am just getting used to Win7 so
> please............. let us stay with it for the forseeable... :))


BUT how is MS going to make money?
How are manufacturers going to encourage users to get new machines?

Golly what problems<vbg>
 
O

Ophelia

Flightless Bird
"LouB" <Lou@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:4B6874F1.6010701@invalid.invalid...
>> I loved my XP but now I am just getting used to Win7 so
>> please............. let us stay with it for the forseeable... :))

>
> BUT how is MS going to make money?
> How are manufacturers going to encourage users to get new machines?
>
> Golly what problems<vbg>


wahhhhhhh I don't care!!!!!!!!!!!!!


--
--
https://www.shop.helpforheroes.org.uk/
 
G

Gene E. Bloch

Flightless Bird
On 2/01/10, Tom Lake posted:
> <Jeff@couldbeinvalid.com> wrote in message
> news:DRA9n.34163$BV.9125@newsfe07.iad...
>> I moved from XP to Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit. Often when I ask for
>> advice about something in W 7 I am referred to a source for Vista which
>> makes me ask the question: how different are Vista and W 7 other than the
>> friendlier uac and cosmetics?
>>
>> Thanks. Jeff


> One non-technical difference is that my wife (a techno-phobe)
> who won't use Vista at all loves Win 7. It's smoother, less intrusive
> and just seems much more polished than Vista. I'm a systems
> administrator and I've found that calls to my help desk have
> dropped dramatically since I deployed Win 7. I use Ubuntu at home
> (but not on my wife's computer!) and that's quite impressive but all-in-all,
> Win 7 seems to be the Grail which MS was seeking.


> Now my question is, "Where do they go from here?"


OS-X 7.0?

I am *just kidding*. I now have Win 7 and it works a bit better for me
than Vista did...

I also like OS-X - so there!

> Tom Lake


--
Gene Bloch 650.366.4267 lettersatblochg.com
 
P

PeeCee

Flightless Bird
"Tecknomage" <tecknode@NOSPAM.com> wrote in message
news:fu6gm5h0ciecdn6gvbemqm4kn8rr72ao2q@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 2 Feb 2010 22:05:40 +1300, "PeeCee" <abuse@local.host> wrote:
>
>>


Snip


>
> This is a very, very personal comment.
>
> All the above MAY be true, but for me Win7 is a non-starter.
>
> The problem is having to *reinstall* 100+ games and apps I have on my
> WinXP SP3 system. Especially since my home system is rock-solid as
> is.
>
> The other issue I have with Win7 when I look at it (videos, store PCs,
> and friends with Win7 systems) it's all eye-candy. Things that look
> fancy but have no *real* operational value. Example, I run WinXP with
> everything in the classic mode.
>
> Now, IF Microsoft had made the upgrade method from WinXP-to-Win7 by
> mounting the Win7 CD at the WinXP desktop and Win7 would install
> *without* having to reinstall apps/games, INCLUDING NOT needing
> special drivers, I may have considered the change.




I think it unlikely you will ever see much in the way of 'upgrade' options
in the future.
Right from the get go of Vista/Win7 a 'clean' install was touted as the
'prefered' upgrade choice.
In the grand scheme of things carrying legacy compatibility forward is a
real problem for MS & other OS vendors.
Apple got over the problem by making clean breaks and changing the OS
completely (several times so far)
MS needs to dump legacy compatibility to concentrate on the future, but in
doing so it will alienate a 'big' chunk of Corporate America.
Either way it can't win.

For us 'Cash Register Fodder' legacy compatibility is a very real problem.
I certainly can't afford to buy a new printer/scanner/video suite/office
suite just because Bill wants a new bathroom or HP's share price is down.
As you so fervently stated the 'hastle' of moving to a new platform is also
a serious consideration, though I do see advantages in a regular 'clean out'
and confirmation of backup policies.

Fortunately there is a way to have the best of both worlds and that is with
Virtualisation.
I see VM's running XP within Win8/9/10 allowing systems created over the XP
era to continue to work productively for their owners.
In your case a VM of your present XP machine should run just fine in Win7
Pro XP Mode.
That way you don't have to reinstall everything 'and' you get to play with
the more sensible improvements of the later OS's.
This is why Win7 64bit Pro on a motherboard that address's at least 12GB of
RAM is really minimum hardware spec for today.
Actually MS would help itself by making XP Mode available for 'all' versions
of Win7 .

>
> By the way, I've been using Windows since the Win95 days, so I have a
> very long view.
>


mmmm Unfortunately for my eyesight, hearing and paunch I've been around
since the days when adding RAM meant doing it yourself.
No fancy dimms, rimms or simms just a few expensive IC's, Vero board,
soldering Iron and a circuit diagram.
Makes one understand that change is a constant not something that can be
stopped.
Grumbles about upgrading software go way back.


>
> --
> ======== Tecknomage ========
> Computer Systems Specialist
> IT Technician
> San Diego, CA


Best
Paul.
 
P

Pulse

Flightless Bird
There might be something wrong with your PC then. Sometimes a new OS will
makes different use of different areas of RAM etc. etc. and exposes a faulty
module (by locking up). You could use one of those RAM checking programs to
see if everything is A-OK.



"Al Smith" <invalid@address.com> wrote in message
news:gtE9n.61905$Db2.27491@edtnps83...
> milt wrote:
>> On 2/1/2010 9:10 AM, Ken Blake, MVP wrote:
>>> < edit >
>>> But it locks up or crashes more often

> than XP did.
>
> -Al-
 
R

R. C. White

Flightless Bird
Hi, Al.

> Finally, the very *last* thing I tried seemed to do the trick -- I turned
> off active scan in Windows Defender. The external drive doesn't chug any
> longer.


Have you tried the new Microsoft Security Essentials?
http://www.microsoft.com/security_essentials/

It's free - and it supersedes Windows Defender:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Defender

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX
rc@grandecom.net
Microsoft Windows MVP
Windows Live Mail 2009 (14.0.8089.0726) in Win7 Ultimate x64

"Al Smith" <invalid@address.com> wrote in message
news:0WY9n.64343$PH1.42626@edtnps82...
> Dave-UK wrote:
>>
>> "Al Smith" <invalid@address.com> wrote in message
>> news:zxH9n.61929$Db2.57409@edtnps83...
>>> Ken Blake, MVP wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 01 Feb 2010 17:47:56 GMT, Al Smith<invalid@address.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I'm finding Windows 7 to be less stable than my last Os, Windows
>>>>> XP. Vista went off my wife's computer so fast, I didn't really get
>>>>> a chance to use it. Once I saw that I couldn't do file operations
>>>>> with Vista, that was it, I replaced it with XP and never looked
>>>>> back. At least I can copy and move files with Windows 7, which is
>>>>> an improvement, I guess. But it locks up or crashes more often
>>>>> than XP did.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That may be your experience, but it's very far from everyone's
>>>> experience. I've been running the released version here since it first
>>>> came out, and the RC for several months before that. Neither one has
>>>> *ever* crashed or locked up on me. And I know many others with similar
>>>> experiences.
>>>>
>>>> I had no problems with Vista either.
>>>>
>>>> Since your experience is different, you should be looking hard for
>>>> problems on your machine. Perhaps malware infection?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> LOL, some say that Microsoft software is itself malware. I run a clean
>>> computer. I don't have malware. Even so, I get lockups of programs
>>> that require a hard reboot (because the monitor screen fails to
>>> respond at all), spontaneous reboots, and blue screens. Doesn't happen
>>> often, but it happens. I put this down to *probably* the older
>>> programs that I am running. It is, of course, possible that I have a
>>> flaw in one of my RAM chips. But I'm not going to blame my hardware
>>> just yet, for what I believe is software instability. The problem I
>>> had with dragging windows is gone, thanks to an update in the nVidia
>>> driver.
>>>
>>> -Al-

>>
>> If you haven't already done so, here are a couple of things you might
>> look at to find out why your machine is so unstable. Have a look in the
>> Event Viewer:
>> Control Panel
>> System and Security
>> Administrative tools
>> Event Viewer
>> Under Custom Views > Administrative events is a summary of errors
>> from the individual logs files listed in the left pane.
>>
>> and the reliability history,
>>
>> Reliability History Graph:
>> Control Panel
>> System and Security
>> Action Center
>> Maintenance > drop down menu > View Reliability history.
>> Select to view by Days and click on an item to view details.
>>

>
>
> Thanks for the tips. I keep working on my system, making it more lean and
> hopefully more stable. Last night I finally tracked down a problem that I
> mentioned here, that has been driving me nuts ... constant, regular
> accessing of my external USB drive. I'd tried everything I could think of.
> Last night I ran Process Monitor and set it to show only programs. I
> turned them off, one after another. Finally, the very *last* thing I tried
> seemed to do the trick -- I turned off active scan in Windows Defender.
> The external drive doesn't chug any longer.
>
> It was worth the effort, because I was able to shut down some worthless
> things that were running for nothing. Did you know that nVidia has 3D
> turned on by default? It runs in the background all the time as a service,
> and in the past at least has given considerable problems to users through
> excessive CPU use. I was able to shut that down, along with several other
> things -- several search functions that were still running, for example.
>
> I think the main reason I've had instability problems has been the older
> games I play, coupled with the original nVidia driver, which had some sort
> of bug in it that applied specifically to my Dell computer. I'm
> experimenting with running the games in various compatibility modes to
> find which works the best.
>
> -Al-
 
A

Al Smith

Flightless Bird
R. C. White wrote:
> Hi, Al.
>
>> Finally, the very *last* thing I tried seemed to do the trick -- I
>> turned off active scan in Windows Defender. The external drive doesn't
>> chug any longer.

>
> Have you tried the new Microsoft Security Essentials?
> http://www.microsoft.com/security_essentials/
>
> It's free - and it supersedes Windows Defender:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Defender
>
> RC



I will go right over and take a look. Thanks for the link.

-Al-
 
T

Tecknomage

Flightless Bird
On Wed, 3 Feb 2010 10:48:12 +1300, "PeeCee" <abuse@local.host> wrote:

>
> "Tecknomage" <tecknode@NOSPAM.com> wrote in message
> news:fu6gm5h0ciecdn6gvbemqm4kn8rr72ao2q@4ax.com...
> > On Tue, 2 Feb 2010 22:05:40 +1300, "PeeCee" <abuse@local.host> wrote:
> >
> >>

>
> Snip
>
>
> >
> > This is a very, very personal comment.
> >
> > All the above MAY be true, but for me Win7 is a non-starter.
> >
> > The problem is having to *reinstall* 100+ games and apps I have on my
> > WinXP SP3 system. Especially since my home system is rock-solid as
> > is.
> >
> > The other issue I have with Win7 when I look at it (videos, store PCs,
> > and friends with Win7 systems) it's all eye-candy. Things that look
> > fancy but have no *real* operational value. Example, I run WinXP with
> > everything in the classic mode.
> >
> > Now, IF Microsoft had made the upgrade method from WinXP-to-Win7 by
> > mounting the Win7 CD at the WinXP desktop and Win7 would install
> > *without* having to reinstall apps/games, INCLUDING NOT needing
> > special drivers, I may have considered the change.

>
>
>
> I think it unlikely you will ever see much in the way of 'upgrade' options
> in the future.
> Right from the get go of Vista/Win7 a 'clean' install was touted as the
> 'prefered' upgrade choice.
> In the grand scheme of things carrying legacy compatibility forward is a
> real problem for MS & other OS vendors.
> Apple got over the problem by making clean breaks and changing the OS
> completely (several times so far)
> MS needs to dump legacy compatibility to concentrate on the future, but in
> doing so it will alienate a 'big' chunk of Corporate America.
> Either way it can't win.
>
> For us 'Cash Register Fodder' legacy compatibility is a very real problem.
> I certainly can't afford to buy a new printer/scanner/video suite/office
> suite just because Bill wants a new bathroom or HP's share price is down.
> As you so fervently stated the 'hastle' of moving to a new platform is also
> a serious consideration, though I do see advantages in a regular 'clean out'
> and confirmation of backup policies.
>
> Fortunately there is a way to have the best of both worlds and that is with
> Virtualisation.
> I see VM's running XP within Win8/9/10 allowing systems created over the XP
> era to continue to work productively for their owners.
> In your case a VM of your present XP machine should run just fine in Win7
> Pro XP Mode.
> That way you don't have to reinstall everything 'and' you get to play with
> the more sensible improvements of the later OS's.
> This is why Win7 64bit Pro on a motherboard that address's at least 12GB of
> RAM is really minimum hardware spec for today.
> Actually MS would help itself by making XP Mode available for 'all' versions
> of Win7 .
>
> >
> > By the way, I've been using Windows since the Win95 days, so I have a
> > very long view.
> >

>
> mmmm Unfortunately for my eyesight, hearing and paunch I've been around
> since the days when adding RAM meant doing it yourself.
> No fancy dimms, rimms or simms just a few expensive IC's, Vero board,
> soldering Iron and a circuit diagram.
> Makes one understand that change is a constant not something that can be
> stopped.
> Grumbles about upgrading software go way back.
>
>
> >

>
> Best
> Paul.


The reason I'll never "upgrade" has to do with being an "old fart."
I'm 65 and "plan" to fully retire in a few years.

I cannot spend the money on a complete new system (I build my own)
ONLY to use a new OS. Like a said, my WinXP SP3 system is rock-solid.
No crashes, no viruses, and no problems other than hardware failures
due to age (the last was my LED monitor awhile back).

Also, I do plan ahead. Since I use legacy hardware like IDE drives,
floppy, and AGP video cards, I already have and upgrade motherboard on
the shelf that has a Intel Core2 mounted AND has all the legacy
support I use in addition to supporting SATA drives if I wish. Also
have replacement AGP video cards.

By the way, my first system was a "Trash 80" (Tandy TRS-80). With an
"amazing" 64k RAM, 2 3" Single-Sided Floppy drives, 80x25 B&W monitor,
1200 baud modem (member of CompuServe), running CP/M.


--
======== Tecknomage ========
Computer Systems Specialist
IT Technician
San Diego, CA
 
L

Lord Vetinari

Flightless Bird
"milt" <theatre_nospam_guy@miltsweb.com> wrote in message
news:hk70n0$crc$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> On 2/1/2010 9:10 AM, Ken Blake, MVP wrote:
>>
>> Windows 7 (under the covers, Windows 6.1) is essentially a newer and
>> improved version of Vista (under the covers, Windows 6.0). Much is the
>> same, but lots of things are very different.
>>
>>

>
> Just as Vista was an improved version of XP, as XP was an improved version
> of 2000, etc...
>
> Each version is built on what came before.


HAH! Care to explain how you came to that conclusion?
 
J

Jeff Layman

Flightless Bird
"PeeCee" <abuse@local.host> wrote in message
news:hk8pt8$fik$1@news.albasani.net...
>
> <Jeff@couldbeinvalid.com> wrote in message
> news:DRA9n.34163$BV.9125@newsfe07.iad...
>> I moved from XP to Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit. Often when I ask for
>> advice about something in W 7 I am referred to a source for Vista which
>> makes me ask the question: how different are Vista and W 7 other than the
>> friendlier uac and cosmetics?
>>
>> Thanks. Jeff

>
>
> Jeff
>
> From what I've observed Win7 is Vista with a lot of the 'complaints'
> fixed.
> As you have seen there is varied opinion on what to call Win7 but Vista
> Second Edition is probably a fair assessment.
> Vista broke many applications just like 95, NT and 2000 did in their era.
> Unfortunately because MS left such a long break between major OS revisions
> Vista was bound to disappoint.
> Because the name 'Vista' became so tainted I suspect the pointy heads at
> MS insisted Vista SE was a non starter.
> So even though the Version is actually 6.1 MS had to call it Win7 in order
> to remove it sufficiently from Vista for the market to regain confidence &
> buy the new version.
>
> The practical differences between Vista/Win7 in my experience are:
> 1 No more frustrating 'hangs' while the OS hives off into hyperspace doing
> it's own thing, something Vista was 'very' bad at.
> 2 Minor 'GUI' changes eg the addition of Devices and Printers to the start
> menu, dropping the gas hog Windows Vista Sidebar etc.
> 3 Removal of several previously bundled apps like an Email client, Movie
> Maker, Messenger etc.
> 4 For the Pro and Ultimate versions the availability of XP Mode Virtual
> Machine to carry forward mission critical apps that 'broke' on the move
> from XP.
> 5 Apparent speed increase, though I've some reservations on that as I went
> from an AMD X64 to an i7 which would explain at least some of the speed
> boost.
> 6 The left window in Windows Explorer is worse than Vista, this is one
> area where MS has got it totally wrong compared to 9x through XP.
>
> From a broader perspective your change from XP to Win7 will bring a lot of
> minor niggles and factors that were no different than when going from Win
> 3x to Win 9x
> * Bit depth: now is the time to go to 64bit. 32 bit's 4GB max RAM is a
> complete dead end and should only be used as a last resort to keep legacy
> software running.
> (& make sure your new motherboard can handle more than 4G8)
> * Missing bundled apps, go to MS website and download 'Windows Live
> Essentials' to regain a bundled Email Client, Movie Maker etc.
> * The search tool does seem to work much better than XP's version ever
> did.
> * Things moved from where they were in XP is probably the biggest
> frustration with Vista/Win7. Vista to Win7 changes are fairly minor.
> * I find the 'dumbing down' of the UI worrying.
> * While the Control Panel has more icons, somehow it seems harder to find
> critical settings (search helps here)
> * Start Menu: is in my opinion better, Luddites will scream bring back the
> 'classic' menu, but on a PC with lots of apps installed (as any power
> users machine is likely to be) the new menu means you can get access.
> With XP you had to resort to Windows Explorer or spend time 'nesting'
> shortcuts.
> * A negative for me is the pastel colours MS has used in both Vista and
> Win7. Windows Explorer is much the poorer for this change.
>


So it's not just me! I replied in this thread yesterday that Win7 should be
renamed Windows Pastel and Soft Focus. And I agree totally about the new
Windows Explorer. I have now installed Explorer++ which is more like the XP
version of WE.

I disagree about the new WE Search facility. I find it incredibly
intrusive, and have disabled it. Even so, I had to go into Services to kill
it completely, and delete the 40Mb+ data file it had created in just over a
week. Why no option to simply delete the index file? Why is the only option
"delete and rebuild"? Maybe I'll look at it again if I can limit its scope
to what I want.

One other thing that I can't understand is Microsoft's changes which can
only partially be customised. Why is it possible to remove the pinned apps
from the taskbar, but not allow the Quick Launch toolbar to be placed right
next to the start button? And it moves over with each app opened as they
occupy the "pinned apps" space! Why move the "Show desktop" button to the
far side of the Notification Area, and make it unmovable? Why can the
Search Box in IE8 be shrunk so that it is effectively useless (I have no use
for it at all) but cannot be removed completely?

And I've gone back to the Classic Start menu. With the new Start menu,
that's another space waster MS have introduced. I don't want the top left
pane with a short list of programs I am not interested in, but even if I
delete all the links in it the space remains. Is there a way to remove it
to leave "All programs" at the top?

--

Jeff
 
P

PeeCee

Flightless Bird
"Tecknomage" <tecknode@cts.com> wrote in message
news:9gpim51phs11askvj39gi1lqetj4h8vh8n@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 3 Feb 2010 10:48:12 +1300, "PeeCee" <abuse@local.host> wrote:
>
>>
>> "Tecknomage" <tecknode@NOSPAM.com> wrote in message
>> news:fu6gm5h0ciecdn6gvbemqm4kn8rr72ao2q@4ax.com...
>> > On Tue, 2 Feb 2010 22:05:40 +1300, "PeeCee" <abuse@local.host> wrote:
>> >
>> >>

>>
>> Snip
>>
>>
>> >
>> > This is a very, very personal comment.
>> >
>> > All the above MAY be true, but for me Win7 is a non-starter.
>> >
>> > The problem is having to *reinstall* 100+ games and apps I have on my
>> > WinXP SP3 system. Especially since my home system is rock-solid as
>> > is.
>> >
>> > The other issue I have with Win7 when I look at it (videos, store PCs,
>> > and friends with Win7 systems) it's all eye-candy. Things that look
>> > fancy but have no *real* operational value. Example, I run WinXP with
>> > everything in the classic mode.
>> >
>> > Now, IF Microsoft had made the upgrade method from WinXP-to-Win7 by
>> > mounting the Win7 CD at the WinXP desktop and Win7 would install
>> > *without* having to reinstall apps/games, INCLUDING NOT needing
>> > special drivers, I may have considered the change.

>>
>>
>>
>> I think it unlikely you will ever see much in the way of 'upgrade'
>> options
>> in the future.
>> Right from the get go of Vista/Win7 a 'clean' install was touted as the
>> 'prefered' upgrade choice.
>> In the grand scheme of things carrying legacy compatibility forward is a
>> real problem for MS & other OS vendors.
>> Apple got over the problem by making clean breaks and changing the OS
>> completely (several times so far)
>> MS needs to dump legacy compatibility to concentrate on the future, but
>> in
>> doing so it will alienate a 'big' chunk of Corporate America.
>> Either way it can't win.
>>
>> For us 'Cash Register Fodder' legacy compatibility is a very real
>> problem.
>> I certainly can't afford to buy a new printer/scanner/video suite/office
>> suite just because Bill wants a new bathroom or HP's share price is down.
>> As you so fervently stated the 'hastle' of moving to a new platform is
>> also
>> a serious consideration, though I do see advantages in a regular 'clean
>> out'
>> and confirmation of backup policies.
>>
>> Fortunately there is a way to have the best of both worlds and that is
>> with
>> Virtualisation.
>> I see VM's running XP within Win8/9/10 allowing systems created over the
>> XP
>> era to continue to work productively for their owners.
>> In your case a VM of your present XP machine should run just fine in Win7
>> Pro XP Mode.
>> That way you don't have to reinstall everything 'and' you get to play
>> with
>> the more sensible improvements of the later OS's.
>> This is why Win7 64bit Pro on a motherboard that address's at least 12GB
>> of
>> RAM is really minimum hardware spec for today.
>> Actually MS would help itself by making XP Mode available for 'all'
>> versions
>> of Win7 .
>>
>> >
>> > By the way, I've been using Windows since the Win95 days, so I have a
>> > very long view.
>> >

>>
>> mmmm Unfortunately for my eyesight, hearing and paunch I've been around
>> since the days when adding RAM meant doing it yourself.
>> No fancy dimms, rimms or simms just a few expensive IC's, Vero board,
>> soldering Iron and a circuit diagram.
>> Makes one understand that change is a constant not something that can be
>> stopped.
>> Grumbles about upgrading software go way back.
>>
>>
>> >

>>
>> Best
>> Paul.

>
> The reason I'll never "upgrade" has to do with being an "old fart."
> I'm 65 and "plan" to fully retire in a few years.
>
> I cannot spend the money on a complete new system (I build my own)
> ONLY to use a new OS. Like a said, my WinXP SP3 system is rock-solid.
> No crashes, no viruses, and no problems other than hardware failures
> due to age (the last was my LED monitor awhile back).
>
> Also, I do plan ahead. Since I use legacy hardware like IDE drives,
> floppy, and AGP video cards, I already have and upgrade motherboard on
> the shelf that has a Intel Core2 mounted AND has all the legacy
> support I use in addition to supporting SATA drives if I wish. Also
> have replacement AGP video cards.
>
> By the way, my first system was a "Trash 80" (Tandy TRS-80). With an
> "amazing" 64k RAM, 2 3" Single-Sided Floppy drives, 80x25 B&W monitor,
> 1200 baud modem (member of CompuServe), running CP/M.
>
>
> --
> ======== Tecknomage ========
> Computer Systems Specialist
> IT Technician
> San Diego, CA



I tips me 'Hat to you then, I'm only 63! (and a half) :)

Remember the Trash 80's but could never afford one.
My first was a 'SCAMP' as described in 'Elector' magazine.
Bought it of the chap that put it together by poking the IC's through
formica and wiring the pins point to point.
Next was a Z80 based kit from a local (Australasian) Electronics firm that I
made a green screen for by taping green cellophane over the top of a 12" B&W
telly.
Floppy drives didn't arrive until the BBC Micro.
Comuserve and Modems were just way beyond me cost wise.

Of course then there was the Tellytypes and Ham Radio I was into at the same
time.

Ah, sigh, mmmm oh the memories........

Best
Paul.
 
L

Lord Vetinari

Flightless Bird
"PeeCee" <abuse@local.host> wrote in message
news:hkgqib$cdh$1@news.albasani.net...
> "Tecknomage" <tecknode@cts.com> wrote in message
> news:9gpim51phs11askvj39gi1lqetj4h8vh8n@4ax.com...
>> On Wed, 3 Feb 2010 10:48:12 +1300, "PeeCee" <abuse@local.host> wrote:
>>> "Tecknomage" <tecknode@NOSPAM.com> wrote in message
>>> news:fu6gm5h0ciecdn6gvbemqm4kn8rr72ao2q@4ax.com...
>>> > On Tue, 2 Feb 2010 22:05:40 +1300, "PeeCee" <abuse@local.host> wrote:
>>>
>>> Snip
>>> >
>>> > This is a very, very personal comment.
>>> >
>>> > All the above MAY be true, but for me Win7 is a non-starter.
>>> >
>>> > The problem is having to *reinstall* 100+ games and apps I have on my
>>> > WinXP SP3 system. Especially since my home system is rock-solid as
>>> > is.
>>> >
>>> > The other issue I have with Win7 when I look at it (videos, store PCs,
>>> > and friends with Win7 systems) it's all eye-candy. Things that look
>>> > fancy but have no *real* operational value. Example, I run WinXP with
>>> > everything in the classic mode.
>>> >
>>> > Now, IF Microsoft had made the upgrade method from WinXP-to-Win7 by
>>> > mounting the Win7 CD at the WinXP desktop and Win7 would install
>>> > *without* having to reinstall apps/games, INCLUDING NOT needing
>>> > special drivers, I may have considered the change.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I think it unlikely you will ever see much in the way of 'upgrade'
>>> options
>>> in the future.
>>> Right from the get go of Vista/Win7 a 'clean' install was touted as the
>>> 'prefered' upgrade choice.
>>> In the grand scheme of things carrying legacy compatibility forward is a
>>> real problem for MS & other OS vendors.
>>> Apple got over the problem by making clean breaks and changing the OS
>>> completely (several times so far)
>>> MS needs to dump legacy compatibility to concentrate on the future, but
>>> in
>>> doing so it will alienate a 'big' chunk of Corporate America.
>>> Either way it can't win.
>>>
>>> For us 'Cash Register Fodder' legacy compatibility is a very real
>>> problem.
>>> I certainly can't afford to buy a new printer/scanner/video suite/office
>>> suite just because Bill wants a new bathroom or HP's share price is
>>> down.
>>> As you so fervently stated the 'hastle' of moving to a new platform is
>>> also
>>> a serious consideration, though I do see advantages in a regular 'clean
>>> out'
>>> and confirmation of backup policies.
>>>
>>> Fortunately there is a way to have the best of both worlds and that is
>>> with
>>> Virtualisation.
>>> I see VM's running XP within Win8/9/10 allowing systems created over the
>>> XP
>>> era to continue to work productively for their owners.
>>> In your case a VM of your present XP machine should run just fine in
>>> Win7
>>> Pro XP Mode.
>>> That way you don't have to reinstall everything 'and' you get to play
>>> with
>>> the more sensible improvements of the later OS's.
>>> This is why Win7 64bit Pro on a motherboard that address's at least 12GB
>>> of
>>> RAM is really minimum hardware spec for today.
>>> Actually MS would help itself by making XP Mode available for 'all'
>>> versions
>>> of Win7 .
>>>
>>> >
>>> > By the way, I've been using Windows since the Win95 days, so I have a
>>> > very long view.
>>> >
>>>
>>> mmmm Unfortunately for my eyesight, hearing and paunch I've been around
>>> since the days when adding RAM meant doing it yourself.
>>> No fancy dimms, rimms or simms just a few expensive IC's, Vero board,
>>> soldering Iron and a circuit diagram.
>>> Makes one understand that change is a constant not something that can be
>>> stopped.
>>> Grumbles about upgrading software go way back.
>>>
>>>
>>> >
>>>
>>> Best
>>> Paul.

>>
>> The reason I'll never "upgrade" has to do with being an "old fart."
>> I'm 65 and "plan" to fully retire in a few years.
>>
>> I cannot spend the money on a complete new system (I build my own)
>> ONLY to use a new OS. Like a said, my WinXP SP3 system is rock-solid.
>> No crashes, no viruses, and no problems other than hardware failures
>> due to age (the last was my LED monitor awhile back).
>>
>> Also, I do plan ahead. Since I use legacy hardware like IDE drives,
>> floppy, and AGP video cards, I already have and upgrade motherboard on
>> the shelf that has a Intel Core2 mounted AND has all the legacy
>> support I use in addition to supporting SATA drives if I wish. Also
>> have replacement AGP video cards.
>>
>> By the way, my first system was a "Trash 80" (Tandy TRS-80). With an
>> "amazing" 64k RAM, 2 3" Single-Sided Floppy drives, 80x25 B&W monitor,
>> 1200 baud modem (member of CompuServe), running CP/M.
>>
>>
>> --
>> ======== Tecknomage ========
>> Computer Systems Specialist
>> IT Technician
>> San Diego, CA

>
>
> I tips me 'Hat to you then, I'm only 63! (and a half) :)
>
> Remember the Trash 80's but could never afford one.
> My first was a 'SCAMP' as described in 'Elector' magazine.
> Bought it of the chap that put it together by poking the IC's through
> formica and wiring the pins point to point.
> Next was a Z80 based kit from a local (Australasian) Electronics firm that
> I made a green screen for by taping green cellophane over the top of a 12"
> B&W telly.
> Floppy drives didn't arrive until the BBC Micro.


Looking at a photo of one, is that a cartridge port to the left of the
keyboard? Odd looking whatever it is.

Anyway, every computer I've ever bought has had at least one floppy
drive....um....hmmm...ok, the C128 started out with just a cassette, but I
bought a 1571 5¼" disk drive as soon as I could....then a 1581 3.5" floppy.
I still have the entire system.

> Comuserve and Modems were just way beyond me cost wise.


I'm so glad I don't have to deal with modems anymore....I find it funny that
my latest laptop still has one. I guess I'm just spoiled rotten...my home
town features the University of Illinois, where I got access to the PLATO
system, despite having no ties to UI (which is why I'm in the position I'm
in now).

> Of course then there was the Tellytypes and Ham Radio I was into at the
> same time.


I only had to deal with teletype computing once or twice, and happy it
wasn't more. What an enormous waste of paper!
 
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