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Data on a 3.5 diskette

Discussion in 'Windows XP' started by Den, Mar 5, 2010.

  1. Unknown

    Unknown Flightless Bird

    What you fail to recognize, or won't admit, is that there is a specification
    on life expectancy based on
    times used. But rather than quoting the figure you revert to name calling.
    I've had enough of your emotional outbursts.

    PLONK

    "Gordon" <gordonbparker@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:u1fZUF7vKHA.4492@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
    >
    > "Unknown" <unknown@unknown.kom> wrote in message
    > news:-OVZMUC7vKHA.812@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
    >> But you never quote a spec on times played. You simply present your
    >> emotions.
    >> How many times can a cassette be played?

    >
    >
    > IDIOT. What don't you understand about "the length of life is in DIRECT
    > proportion to how often the tape is played" Of COURSE there's no
    > "definitive" life span - IT DEPENDS ON HOW OFTEN THE TAPE IS USED!!!!!!!!!
    >
    > I've had enough of your stupidity.
    >
    > Plonk.
     
  2. choro

    choro Flightless Bird

    > "Gordon" <gordonbparker@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    > news:e790n76vKHA.4552@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
    >>
    >> "Unknown" <unknown@unknown.kom> wrote in message
    >> news:eAfXas6vKHA.4636@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
    >>> Do a Google search for 'cassette tape life expectancy'.

    >>
    >> You really are thick aren't you?
    >>
    >> I'll explain again. EVERY time you play a TAPE of any sort, the
    >> surface of the tape has particles removed by the CONTACT with the
    >> playing head so that eventually the tape becomes so worn it cannot
    >> reproduce whatever is on it.
    >> Unlike media such as CD/DVD where there is NO contact AT ALL between
    >> the playing head and the media.
    >> Thus tapes wear out in direct proportion to HOW OFTEN THEY ARE USED.


    Unknown wrote:
    > But you never quote a spec on times played. You simply present your
    > emotions.
    > How many times can a cassette be played?


    Your argument is stupid, if I may say so. That depends on the quality of the
    tape machine the tape is played on. I would say there would be an enormous
    difference between the wear and tear on the tape played on a dirt cheap
    machine as opposed to a Nakamichi Dragon, for example. Don't you think so?
    --
    choro


    *****
     
  3. Gordon

    Gordon Flightless Bird

    "choro" <choro@tvco.net> wrote in message
    news:bDwln.11810$%h1.5290@newsfe03.ams2...
    >
    > Your argument is stupid, if I may say so. That depends on the quality of
    > the tape machine the tape is played on. I would say there would be an
    > enormous difference between the wear and tear on the tape played on a dirt
    > cheap machine as opposed to a Nakamichi Dragon, for example. Don't you
    > think so?


    Probably but the length of time the tape is usable is STILL directly
    proportional to how often it's used....
     
  4. Unknown

    Unknown Flightless Bird

    You don't understand proportions either. Playing on a Nakamichi Dragon may
    be 50,000 times. Playing
    on a dirt machine may be 2000 times. That could be 15 years versus 3 years.
    "Gordon" <gordonbparker@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:utCJIm7vKHA.812@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
    >
    > "choro" <choro@tvco.net> wrote in message
    > news:bDwln.11810$%h1.5290@newsfe03.ams2...
    >>
    >> Your argument is stupid, if I may say so. That depends on the quality of
    >> the tape machine the tape is played on. I would say there would be an
    >> enormous difference between the wear and tear on the tape played on a
    >> dirt cheap machine as opposed to a Nakamichi Dragon, for example. Don't
    >> you think so?

    >
    > Probably but the length of time the tape is usable is STILL directly
    > proportional to how often it's used....
    >
    >
     
  5. Terry R.

    Terry R. Flightless Bird

    On 3/9/2010 9:32 AM On a whim, Gordon pounded out on the keyboard

    > "Unknown"<unknown@unknown.kom> wrote in message
    > news:evkl3l6vKHA.3564@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
    >> Quote specs not emotional gibberish. An 8 track or cassette has a definite
    >> specification
    >> as to life expectancy.

    >
    > Rubbish - of COURSE it doesn't. All magnetic media such as Audio cassettes,
    > 8 track (which is just a special form of cassette), VHS cassettes, when they
    > are plaid they CONTACT the playing head. When this happens a minute part of
    > the surface of the tape is removed by friction on the playing head. The life
    > expectancy of these magnetic TAPES is in direct proportion to how often they
    > are played. Play a VHS tape three times a day every day and it won't last
    > very long. Play a VHS tape once a year and it will ladst FAR longer.
    >


    8 track is not a "special form of cassette". 8 track is ONE reel, where
    the tape is drawn from the inside and re-wound on the outside. That
    constant rubbing from the tape being pulled from the inside made the
    life expectancy very short compared to cassettes, which use a two reel
    method like reel to reel tape machines.

    More than friction damage from the heads, is the magnetic field that
    develops when the tape is drawn across the head. That slowly
    demagnetizes the tape, essentially erasing it over time.


    Terry R.
    --
    Anti-spam measures are included in my email address.
    Delete NOSPAM from the email address after clicking Reply.
     
  6. Gordon

    Gordon Flightless Bird

    "Terry R." <F1Com@NOSPAMpobox.com> wrote in message
    news:-OkUZuG8vKHA.5244@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
    >
    > 8 track is not a "special form of cassette". 8 track is ONE reel, where
    > the tape is drawn from the inside and re-wound on the outside. That
    > constant rubbing from the tape being pulled from the inside made the life
    > expectancy very short compared to cassettes, which use a two reel method
    > like reel to reel tape machines.


    Thanks for that info - never had an 8 track, although I know several people
    who have!


    >
    > More than friction damage from the heads, is the magnetic field that
    > develops when the tape is drawn across the head. That slowly demagnetizes
    > the tape, essentially erasing it over time.
    >


    Thanks again - thinking back of course I remembered that, but it's SO long
    ago since I used any sort of tape...
     
  7. Terry R.

    Terry R. Flightless Bird

    On 3/9/2010 12:07 PM On a whim, Gordon pounded out on the keyboard

    > "Terry R."<F1Com@NOSPAMpobox.com> wrote in message
    > news:-OkUZuG8vKHA.5244@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
    >> 8 track is not a "special form of cassette". 8 track is ONE reel, where
    >> the tape is drawn from the inside and re-wound on the outside. That
    >> constant rubbing from the tape being pulled from the inside made the life
    >> expectancy very short compared to cassettes, which use a two reel method
    >> like reel to reel tape machines.

    >
    > Thanks for that info - never had an 8 track, although I know several people
    > who have!
    >


    4 tracks were based on the same design, but quickly died when the 8
    track was able to store twice the material. The 4 track was two tracks
    of stereo and the 8 track was four tracks of stereo. Since the 8 tracks
    were so close together, cross-talk was much more prevalent than it was
    using 4 tracks. You could literally move the case up and down ever so
    slightly in the player and have the music change tracks.

    >
    >> More than friction damage from the heads, is the magnetic field that
    >> develops when the tape is drawn across the head. That slowly demagnetizes
    >> the tape, essentially erasing it over time.
    >>

    >
    > Thanks again - thinking back of course I remembered that, but it's SO long
    > ago since I used any sort of tape...
    >


    You're welcome.

    Terry R.
    --
    Anti-spam measures are included in my email address.
    Delete NOSPAM from the email address after clicking Reply.
     
  8. Terry R.

    Terry R. Flightless Bird

    On 3/9/2010 11:43 AM On a whim, Unknown pounded out on the keyboard

    > You don't understand proportions either. Playing on a Nakamichi Dragon may
    > be 50,000 times. Playing
    > on a dirt machine may be 2000 times. That could be 15 years versus 3 years.
    > "Gordon"<gordonbparker@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    > news:utCJIm7vKHA.812@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
    >> "choro"<choro@tvco.net> wrote in message
    >> news:bDwln.11810$%h1.5290@newsfe03.ams2...
    >>> Your argument is stupid, if I may say so. That depends on the quality of
    >>> the tape machine the tape is played on. I would say there would be an
    >>> enormous difference between the wear and tear on the tape played on a
    >>> dirt cheap machine as opposed to a Nakamichi Dragon, for example. Don't
    >>> you think so?

    >> Probably but the length of time the tape is usable is STILL directly
    >> proportional to how often it's used....
    >>
    >>

    >
    >


    You're giving way too much credit to a machine that uses a typical tape
    path to play. Regardless of the tape transport mechanism touted in the
    ND, the tape damage doesn't come from forwarding and rewinding nearly as
    much as it does from standard demagnetization caused from the tape head
    coming in contact with the tape.

    You can have a tape last just as long on a lower priced player if you
    demagnetize and clean the heads/rollers frequently. Those are the two
    single most killers of tape, regardless of whether it's 4/8 track,
    cassette, or reel to reel.


    Terry R.
    --
    Anti-spam measures are included in my email address.
    Delete NOSPAM from the email address after clicking Reply.
     
  9. Billns

    Billns Flightless Bird

    On 3/5/2010 12:06 PM, Den wrote:
    > I realize this may be somewhat old school, but I have a problem with
    > some data on a 3.5 diskette using WinXP. I put some personal data in a
    > '.xls' file on a 3.5 diskette and update it every now and then. The
    > other day when I put the disk in to enter some new data, I received the
    > following error msg: "book1.xls" cannot be accessed. The file may be
    > read-only, or you may be trying to access a read-only location. Or, the
    > server the document is stored on may not be responding. My options at
    > this point are "RETRY" or "CANCEL".
    >
    > I check the disk drive with other diskettes to see if it worked with
    > them, and they opened fine. I copied another *.xls file to the diskette
    > to see if I could access it, and it worked fine. I had no problem
    > opening the 2nd xls file on the diskette. I ran error checking on the
    > disk, and it came up clean. I tried disk-copy with no luck either. Can
    > anyone help me with this, or advise me where I can get help?
    >
    > Thank you!
    > Dennis


    Interesting thread, but it sure got off topic quickly.
    Gord Dibben is right, though, that you shouldn't read or write directly
    to floppy disks from within Excel. If you can copy the file from the
    diskette to the hard drive you may be able to access it.

    As to life of components, I have diskettes from 20 years ago that are
    still readable. I also have diskettes of more recent vintage that are
    now unreadable. YMMV. I also have a couple of CD data disks that became
    unreadable after only a year or two. And I have cassette tapes from 25
    years ago that are still playable in my 1979 Ampex tape deck.

    My 5 1/4-inch floppies are unreadable because they won't fit in my
    3.5-inch drive. I used to remove these disks from their folders to show
    my beginning computer class why they are called floppies. Nowadays they
    probably wouldn't have any idea what I was talking about.

    Bill
     
  10. Twayne

    Twayne Flightless Bird

    In news:%23yoCmO2vKHA.404@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl,
    Gordon <gordonbparker@yahoo.com> typed:
    > "Unknown" <unknown@unknown.kom> wrote in message
    > news:uHDSQewvKHA.6140@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
    >> Not really. Whenever friends, relatives etc. want to give
    >> others a program or similar, we do it via the floppy.

    >
    >
    > Lat time I saw a PROGRAM that fitted on a floppy there were
    > 24 of them......


    That's the wonder and glory of the windows GUI: 800 Meg for pretty stuff and
    200k of program data and it's just one program. But I do have several that
    would fit on floppy: VB language.

    --
    --
    Life is the only real counselor; wisdom unfiltered
    through personal experience does not become a
    part of the moral tissue.
     
  11. Twayne

    Twayne Flightless Bird

    In news:-Oyzzca5vKHA.1692@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl,
    Unknown <unknown@unknown.kom> typed:
    > No idea where you get your specs. I have floppies over ten
    > years old and still working great.
    > Magnetic media? Disks can retain their data for many years.
    > Tapes? I have 8 tracks and cassettes
    > over 25 years old and still working.


    You're either a liar, have very expensive hi Qual floppies and tapes kept in
    an environmentally controlled room and they're never accessed (in which case
    you can't know they're good), or haven't looked at them in over 8 years.
    Those "specs" are very easy to find on the 'net, are well known (and vary
    some but not by magnitudes or anything close to what you alleged) if you
    want to look for them. I'll bet a floppy by floppy complete access test
    comes up corrupted on most of them.

    Twayne`

    > "Twayne" <nobody@spamcop.net> wrote in message
    > news:-OIzNkRyvKHA.732@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
    >> Unknown, you may already know, but ... floppies lose their
    >> magnetic properties over time (thus they become unusable
    >> or the data corrupts). It starts at about two month point
    >> depending on the quality and age of the floppy, usually
    >> being closer to 6 months for el-cheapos and around a year
    >> for higher quality with good care. Before data corrupts, I
    >> mean. To prevent that, it's best to copy them to CD/DVD for long
    >> term storage. It's quick & easy to make a new floppy.
    >>
    >> The way to keep the floppy "refreshed" is to copy all the
    >> data off it to your hard drive and then simply copy all
    >> the data back to the floppy. In business, we used to do
    >> that monthly. I'd still do it monthly if I wanted a floppy
    >> to persist for the long term. But don't let the floppy be
    >> the only copy of the files; back them up too so you can
    >> always make another floppy. In the real world, I
    >> discovered a cache of about 100 floppies, some with some
    >> interesting files on them, and after over 5 years, still
    >> managed to get the data off over 55% of them. I was
    >> astonished! The software I used was a 100-pass program:
    >> It would try to read the data 100 times and then pick the
    >> sequence with the same identical data per try, and if it
    >> was over a certain number, call that the "data". It was
    >> surprisingly accurate for some of the "iffy" floppies. Now I have them on
    >> CD-R for long term storage - fun to
    >> play with sometimes. HTH,
    >>
    >> Twayne`
    >>
    >>
    >> n news:ueN8VdvvKHA.3564@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl,
    >> Unknown <unknown@unknown.kom> typed:
    >>> The manufacturer of my computer updates my BIOS by me
    >>> downloading the update which is
    >>> written to a floppy. I then boot with the floppy inserted
    >>> and my BIOS is updated.
    >>> Should something happen to my BIOS, I have a copy of it on
    >>> a floppy. This is why I use a floppy in the 21st century.
    >>> "Gordon" <gordonbparker@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    >>> news:-OKB2gGkvKHA.5008@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
    >>>>
    >>>> "Twayne" <nobody@spamcop.net> wrote in message
    >>>> news:-Oi8QeCkvKHA.732@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
    >>>>>
    >>>>> But off topic and irrelevant since it has nothing to do
    >>>>> with the OPs query.
    >>>>
    >>>> Not at all. The question is - why would anyone want to
    >>>> use 1.44 MB floppy discs anyway in the 21st century?

    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> --
    >> --
    >> Life is the only real counselor; wisdom unfiltered
    >> through personal experience does not become a
    >> part of the moral tissue.




    --
    --
    Life is the only real counselor; wisdom unfiltered
    through personal experience does not become a
    part of the moral tissue.
     
  12. Twayne

    Twayne Flightless Bird

    In news:e9D2Iy5vKHA.4752@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl,
    John John - MVP <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca> typed:
    > Floppies are known to be rather fragile and they can fail
    > for no apparent reason but Twayne is making up stories
    > again. Like you I have floppies from the DOS/Windows 95
    > era (Chips Challenge, anyone?) and they are still good. Of
    > course, knowing that they are prone to fail at any given
    > time, if the floppies contain anything of value they should
    > be backed up to a more reliable media. Bottom line is yes,
    > floppies are fragile and they can fail in 15 minutes or in
    > 15 years, there is no 1 year expiry date on them.


    Of course not. But if you want to keep a store of floppies working for the
    long term, those are the usual numbers that were used for the refrech
    cycles. Your ignorance is only outshone by your complete lack of actual
    experience with most things you talk about. YOu're an interesting clown if
    nothing else.

    Twayne

    >
    > John
    >
    > Unknown wrote:
    >> No idea where you get your specs. I have floppies over ten
    >> years old and still working great.
    >> Magnetic media? Disks can retain their data for many
    >> years. Tapes? I have 8 tracks and cassettes
    >> over 25 years old and still working.
    >> "Twayne" <nobody@spamcop.net> wrote in message
    >> news:-OIzNkRyvKHA.732@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
    >>> Unknown, you may already know, but ... floppies lose
    >>> their magnetic properties over time (thus they become
    >>> unusable or the data corrupts). It starts at about two
    >>> month point depending on the quality and age of the
    >>> floppy, usually being closer to 6 months for el-cheapos
    >>> and around a year for higher quality with good care.
    >>> Before data corrupts, I mean. To prevent that, it's best to copy them
    >>> to CD/DVD for
    >>> long term storage. It's quick & easy to make a new floppy.
    >>>
    >>> The way to keep the floppy "refreshed" is to copy all the
    >>> data off it to your hard drive and then simply copy all
    >>> the data back to the floppy. In business, we used to do
    >>> that monthly. I'd still do it monthly if I wanted a
    >>> floppy to persist for the long term. But don't let the
    >>> floppy be the only copy of the files; back them up too so
    >>> you can always make another floppy. In the real world,
    >>> I discovered a cache of about 100 floppies, some with
    >>> some interesting files on them, and after over 5 years,
    >>> still managed to get the data off over 55% of them. I
    >>> was astonished! The software I used was a 100-pass
    >>> program: It would try to read the data 100 times and then
    >>> pick the sequence with the same identical data per try,
    >>> and if it was over a certain number, call that the
    >>> "data". It was surprisingly accurate for some of the
    >>> "iffy" floppies. Now I have them on CD-R for long term
    >>> storage - fun to play with sometimes. HTH,
    >>>
    >>> Twayne`
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> n news:ueN8VdvvKHA.3564@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl,
    >>> Unknown <unknown@unknown.kom> typed:
    >>>> The manufacturer of my computer updates my BIOS by me
    >>>> downloading the update which is
    >>>> written to a floppy. I then boot with the floppy inserted
    >>>> and my BIOS is updated.
    >>>> Should something happen to my BIOS, I have a copy of it
    >>>> on a floppy. This is why I use a floppy in the 21st
    >>>> century. "Gordon" <gordonbparker@yahoo.com> wrote in
    >>>> message news:-OKB2gGkvKHA.5008@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
    >>>>> "Twayne" <nobody@spamcop.net> wrote in message
    >>>>> news:-Oi8QeCkvKHA.732@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
    >>>>>> But off topic and irrelevant since it has nothing to do
    >>>>>> with the OPs query.
    >>>>> Not at all. The question is - why would anyone want to
    >>>>> use 1.44 MB floppy discs anyway in the 21st century?
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> --
    >>> --
    >>> Life is the only real counselor; wisdom unfiltered
    >>> through personal experience does not become a
    >>> part of the moral tissue.




    --
    --
    Life is the only real counselor; wisdom unfiltered
    through personal experience does not become a
    part of the moral tissue.
     
  13. Twayne

    Twayne Flightless Bird

    In news:%23aOSuI6vKHA.1692@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl,
    Gordon <gordonbparker@yahoo.com> typed:
    > "Unknown" <unknown@unknown.kom> wrote in message
    > news:-Oyzzca5vKHA.1692@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
    >> No idea where you get your specs. I have floppies over ten
    >> years old and still working great.

    >
    > Then you a) don't use them much and b) you have been
    > EXTREMELY lucky.
    >
    >
    >> Magnetic media? Disks can retain their data for many
    >> years. Tapes? I have 8 tracks and cassettes
    >> over 25 years old and still working.

    >
    > See above.
    >
    > Every time you use a cassette and 8 track a little bit of
    > the surface is worn away. So you obviously hardly use them
    > at all.


    Mmm, it's not actually the surface being "worn" away in properly functioning
    drives as it is that: It has more to do with magnetic retentivity in the
    thin oxide layer than anything else and of course care of the disks w/r to
    heat, cold, stray fields near them, normal flux migration (rounding of
    square waves) and the like, to put it simply.

    Twayne`
    --
    --
    Life is the only real counselor; wisdom unfiltered
    through personal experience does not become a
    part of the moral tissue.
     
  14. Twayne

    Twayne Flightless Bird

    In news:evkl3l6vKHA.3564@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl,
    Unknown <unknown@unknown.kom> typed:
    > Quote specs not emotional gibberish. An 8 track or cassette
    > has a definite specification
    > as to life expectancy.


    As do floppy disks in the same sense as 8 traciks and cassette players.
    Each manufacturer used to toot their MTBF back when people still believed it
    meant something real. I don't think they even bother to produce specs in
    their ads anymore since there are very few new floppy manufacturers left.


    > "Gordon" <gordonbparker@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    > news:%23aOSuI6vKHA.1692@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
    >>
    >> "Unknown" <unknown@unknown.kom> wrote in message
    >> news:-Oyzzca5vKHA.1692@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
    >>> No idea where you get your specs. I have floppies over
    >>> ten years old and still working great.

    >>
    >> Then you a) don't use them much and b) you have been
    >> EXTREMELY lucky.
    >>> Magnetic media? Disks can retain their data for many
    >>> years. Tapes? I have 8 tracks and cassettes
    >>> over 25 years old and still working.

    >>
    >> See above.
    >>
    >> Every time you use a cassette and 8 track a little bit of
    >> the surface is worn away. So you obviously hardly use them
    >> at all.




    --
    --
    Life is the only real counselor; wisdom unfiltered
    through personal experience does not become a
    part of the moral tissue.
     
  15. Twayne

    Twayne Flightless Bird

    In news:%238gO056vKHA.5036@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl,
    Gordon <gordonbparker@yahoo.com> typed:
    > "Unknown" <unknown@unknown.kom> wrote in message
    > news:evkl3l6vKHA.3564@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
    >> Quote specs not emotional gibberish. An 8 track or
    >> cassette has a definite specification
    >> as to life expectancy.

    >
    > Rubbish - of COURSE it doesn't. All magnetic media such as
    > Audio cassettes, 8 track (which is just a special form of
    > cassette), VHS cassettes, when they are plaid they CONTACT
    > the playing head. When this happens a minute part of the
    > surface of the tape is removed by friction on the playing
    > head. The life expectancy of these magnetic TAPES is in
    > direct proportion to how often they are played. Play a VHS
    > tape three times a day every day and it won't last very
    > long. Play a VHS tape once a year and it will ladst FAR
    > longer.


    They'll last very close to the same number of playbacks assuming proper care
    over their lifetime.


    --
    --
    Life is the only real counselor; wisdom unfiltered
    through personal experience does not become a
    part of the moral tissue.
     
  16. John John - MVP

    John John - MVP Flightless Bird

    Twayne wrote:
    > In news:e9D2Iy5vKHA.4752@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl,
    > John John - MVP <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca> typed:
    >> Floppies are known to be rather fragile and they can fail
    >> for no apparent reason but Twayne is making up stories
    >> again. Like you I have floppies from the DOS/Windows 95
    >> era (Chips Challenge, anyone?) and they are still good. Of
    >> course, knowing that they are prone to fail at any given
    >> time, if the floppies contain anything of value they should
    >> be backed up to a more reliable media. Bottom line is yes,
    >> floppies are fragile and they can fail in 15 minutes or in
    >> 15 years, there is no 1 year expiry date on them.

    >
    > Of course not. But if you want to keep a store of floppies working for
    > the long term, those are the usual numbers that were used for the
    > refrech cycles. Your ignorance is only outshone by your complete lack of
    > actual experience with most things you talk about. YOu're an interesting
    > clown if nothing else.


    You're quite a character, Twayne. Countless people will come and tell
    you that they have 10+ year old floppies that still work perfectly and
    still contains intact data yet you will treat them all of ignorants who
    lack experience. No need for insults from me, Twayne, the countless
    folks who still have these old floppies and who are reading this will
    have far better fitting descriptions for you than I could ever think of.

    John
     
  17. Bill in Co.

    Bill in Co. Flightless Bird

    John John - MVP wrote:
    > Twayne wrote:
    >> In news:e9D2Iy5vKHA.4752@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl,
    >> John John - MVP <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca> typed:
    >>> Floppies are known to be rather fragile and they can fail
    >>> for no apparent reason but Twayne is making up stories
    >>> again. Like you I have floppies from the DOS/Windows 95
    >>> era (Chips Challenge, anyone?) and they are still good. Of
    >>> course, knowing that they are prone to fail at any given
    >>> time, if the floppies contain anything of value they should
    >>> be backed up to a more reliable media. Bottom line is yes,
    >>> floppies are fragile and they can fail in 15 minutes or in
    >>> 15 years, there is no 1 year expiry date on them.

    >>
    >> Of course not. But if you want to keep a store of floppies working for
    >> the long term, those are the usual numbers that were used for the
    >> refrech cycles. Your ignorance is only outshone by your complete lack of
    >> actual experience with most things you talk about. YOu're an interesting
    >> clown if nothing else.

    >
    > You're quite a character, Twayne. Countless people will come and tell
    > you that they have 10+ year old floppies that still work perfectly and
    > still contains intact data yet you will treat them all of ignorants who
    > lack experience. No need for insults from me, Twayne, the countless
    > folks who still have these old floppies and who are reading this will
    > have far better fitting descriptions for you than I could ever think of.
    >
    > John


    But "those people" are all sock poppets. Don't you know that by now? :)
     
  18. Gordon

    Gordon Flightless Bird

    "John John - MVP" <audetweld@nbnot.nb.ca> wrote in message
    news:eeiz0e$vKHA.4636@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
    > You're quite a character, Twayne. Countless people will come and tell you
    > that they have 10+ year old floppies that still work perfectly and still
    > contains intact data


    The problem is from my point of view (and experience) is that floppies are
    completely erratic as to when they DO fail. My point in starting this was
    that there are far more reliable and cheaper methods available to day for
    data storage. I wouldn't dream of using a floppy today and if I had data on
    floppies I would transfer it to one of the far more robust storage methods.
     
  19. John John - MVP

    John John - MVP Flightless Bird

    Gordon wrote:
    >
    > "John John - MVP" <audetweld@nbnot.nb.ca> wrote in message
    > news:eeiz0e$vKHA.4636@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
    >> You're quite a character, Twayne. Countless people will come and tell
    >> you that they have 10+ year old floppies that still work perfectly and
    >> still contains intact data

    >
    > The problem is from my point of view (and experience) is that floppies
    > are completely erratic as to when they DO fail. My point in starting
    > this was that there are far more reliable and cheaper methods available
    > to day for data storage. I wouldn't dream of using a floppy today and if
    > I had data on floppies I would transfer it to one of the far more robust
    > storage methods.


    No arguments from anyone there, they are frail and they do fail,
    sometimes they fail almost as soon as they come out of the box. We know
    that they aren't the best storage media but Twayne's assertion that they
    all fail in a year unless you do a Kabuki dance and refresh them is rubbish.

    John
     
  20. Unknown

    Unknown Flightless Bird

    I have no idea why you have such flawed thinking. Music media prior to CD's
    was cassettes.
    I have many cassettes purchased in 1984 thru 1986 in Japan. They all still
    work (play)
    I have floppies dating from 1994 during Windows 95 that still work.
    Are you just hell bent on being negative??
    I am NOT saying they are very reliable, should be used on anything of that
    nature.
    BUT, they are not as bad as you make them out to be.
    Cars wear out. Does that mean I must take a bus?
    "Twayne" <nobody@spamcop.net> wrote in message
    news:%23XH62z%23vKHA.3536@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
    > In news:-Oyzzca5vKHA.1692@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl,
    > Unknown <unknown@unknown.kom> typed:
    >> No idea where you get your specs. I have floppies over ten
    >> years old and still working great.
    >> Magnetic media? Disks can retain their data for many years.
    >> Tapes? I have 8 tracks and cassettes
    >> over 25 years old and still working.

    >
    > You're either a liar, have very expensive hi Qual floppies and tapes kept
    > in an environmentally controlled room and they're never accessed (in which
    > case you can't know they're good), or haven't looked at them in over 8
    > years. Those "specs" are very easy to find on the 'net, are well known
    > (and vary some but not by magnitudes or anything close to what you
    > alleged) if you want to look for them. I'll bet a floppy by floppy
    > complete access test comes up corrupted on most of them.
    >
    > Twayne`
    >
    >> "Twayne" <nobody@spamcop.net> wrote in message
    >> news:-OIzNkRyvKHA.732@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
    >>> Unknown, you may already know, but ... floppies lose their
    >>> magnetic properties over time (thus they become unusable
    >>> or the data corrupts). It starts at about two month point
    >>> depending on the quality and age of the floppy, usually
    >>> being closer to 6 months for el-cheapos and around a year
    >>> for higher quality with good care. Before data corrupts, I
    >>> mean. To prevent that, it's best to copy them to CD/DVD for long
    >>> term storage. It's quick & easy to make a new floppy.
    >>>
    >>> The way to keep the floppy "refreshed" is to copy all the
    >>> data off it to your hard drive and then simply copy all
    >>> the data back to the floppy. In business, we used to do
    >>> that monthly. I'd still do it monthly if I wanted a floppy
    >>> to persist for the long term. But don't let the floppy be
    >>> the only copy of the files; back them up too so you can
    >>> always make another floppy. In the real world, I
    >>> discovered a cache of about 100 floppies, some with some
    >>> interesting files on them, and after over 5 years, still
    >>> managed to get the data off over 55% of them. I was
    >>> astonished! The software I used was a 100-pass program:
    >>> It would try to read the data 100 times and then pick the
    >>> sequence with the same identical data per try, and if it
    >>> was over a certain number, call that the "data". It was
    >>> surprisingly accurate for some of the "iffy" floppies. Now I have them
    >>> on CD-R for long term storage - fun to
    >>> play with sometimes. HTH,
    >>>
    >>> Twayne`
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> n news:ueN8VdvvKHA.3564@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl,
    >>> Unknown <unknown@unknown.kom> typed:
    >>>> The manufacturer of my computer updates my BIOS by me
    >>>> downloading the update which is
    >>>> written to a floppy. I then boot with the floppy inserted
    >>>> and my BIOS is updated.
    >>>> Should something happen to my BIOS, I have a copy of it on
    >>>> a floppy. This is why I use a floppy in the 21st century.
    >>>> "Gordon" <gordonbparker@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    >>>> news:-OKB2gGkvKHA.5008@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
    >>>>>
    >>>>> "Twayne" <nobody@spamcop.net> wrote in message
    >>>>> news:-Oi8QeCkvKHA.732@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> But off topic and irrelevant since it has nothing to do
    >>>>>> with the OPs query.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Not at all. The question is - why would anyone want to
    >>>>> use 1.44 MB floppy discs anyway in the 21st century?
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> --
    >>> --
    >>> Life is the only real counselor; wisdom unfiltered
    >>> through personal experience does not become a
    >>> part of the moral tissue.

    >
    >
    >
    > --
    > --
    > Life is the only real counselor; wisdom unfiltered
    > through personal experience does not become a
    > part of the moral tissue.
     

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