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Are Updates dangerous!

Discussion in 'Windows XP' started by joe, Feb 12, 2010.

  1. joe

    joe Flightless Bird

    I have win xp pro sp3

    I lived in a remote area without internet access so never did any updates
    other than the service packs, no internet no threats :)
    I now have broadband and am fully up to date with all Microsoft updates.

    However this latest problem with KB977165 has really scared me. I am not too
    happy about using the recovery tool and how would I have found out the
    solution anyway without a pc to access the Internet? ( I am still in a
    remote area with no other pc's around )

    So I have a couple of questions for the experts here.

    Firstly, why did my update install perfectly when so many others had this
    huge problem? Was I just lucky?

    Has this kind of thing happened before with bad updates?

    Can I feel safe in downloading these updates automatically.

    I would feel much better if you guys could give me the benefit of your
    experience.

    TIA
     
  2. Shenan Stanley

    Shenan Stanley Flightless Bird

    joe wrote:
    > I have win xp pro sp3
    >
    > I lived in a remote area without internet access so never did any
    > updates other than the service packs, no internet no threats :)
    > I now have broadband and am fully up to date with all Microsoft
    > updates.
    > However this latest problem with KB977165 has really scared me. I
    > am not too happy about using the recovery tool and how would I have
    > found out the solution anyway without a pc to access the Internet?
    > ( I am still in a remote area with no other pc's around )
    >
    > So I have a couple of questions for the experts here.
    >
    > Firstly, why did my update install perfectly when so many others
    > had this huge problem? Was I just lucky?
    >
    > Has this kind of thing happened before with bad updates?
    >
    > Can I feel safe in downloading these updates automatically.
    >
    > I would feel much better if you guys could give me the benefit of
    > your experience.


    First - because your computer did not have whatever problem the other people
    have. The source of the problem (at this time) has not been identified with
    any certainty. Yes, the patch may expose the issue on some systems - but if
    the problem was the patch PURELY - you'd think it'd affected all systems,
    wouldn't you?

    Definitely - bad things happen. Most of the time the problem has been
    something on the computer having a reaction to the update, not necessarily a
    bad update. Recall this is a Windows Update - fixing something in Windows.
    It cannot know what has been done to your machine in every possible way or
    know how every possible program you could have would react when whatever it
    is fixing is changed. This has happened with things like ZoneAlarm and some
    antivirus applications in the last few years.

    Can you? Yes - millions of people do. Should you? Depends on what your
    other maintenance tasks are. Do you perform consistent and full backups of
    your important data on external media? Do you have all the installation
    media and product keys for everything you have installed stored in a safe
    place away from the computer itself?

    My experience is this:

    Lightning can and will strike. It may/may not affect your computer, but if
    you are prepared, it won't matter as much.

    You're on high-speed now - likely on all the time - what protection do you
    have in place keeping someone from hopping on your computer and doing
    whatever they want?

    How's your door locks? Someone/something always watching the computer?

    Outlets well grounded and computer connected to an AVR capable Universal
    Power Supply with battery backup?

    All that media and product key stuff I spoke of earlier - is it in a
    fire-resistant/water-resistant safe of some sort?

    There are plenty of things to worry about out there - whether or not a patch
    might mess up a computer that you should be backing up and protecting the
    important stuff on anyway seems... minor. ;-)

    --
    Shenan Stanley
    MS-MVP
    --
    How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
    http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
     
  3. S K

    S K Flightless Bird

    On Feb 12, 8:52 am, "joe" <j...@ebox.com> wrote:
    > I have win xp pro sp3
    >
    > I lived in a remote area without internet access so never did any updates
    > other than the service packs, no internet no threats :)
    > I now have broadband and am fully up to date with all Microsoft updates.
    >
    > However this latest problem with KB977165 has really scared me. I am not too
    > happy about using the recovery tool and how would I have found out the
    > solution anyway without a pc to access the Internet? ( I am still in a
    > remote area with no other pc's around )
    >
    > So I have a couple of questions for the experts here.
    >
    > Firstly, why did my update install perfectly when so many others had this
    > huge problem? Was I just lucky?
    >
    > Has this kind of thing happened before with bad updates?
    >
    > Can I feel safe in downloading these updates automatically.
    >
    > I would feel much better if you guys could give me the benefit of your
    > experience.
    >
    > TIA




    Yes, there are problems with updates from time to time. For testing
    purposes, some organizations will update non-critical machines to see
    if there are any ill effects before flooding all the company's
    computers with the update. I usually wait a week or three before
    installing updates, waiting to see if my favorite newsletter mentions
    any horror stories. It's free and dependable.

    http://www.windowssecrets.com/
     
  4. Daave

    Daave Flightless Bird

    joe wrote:
    > I have win xp pro sp3
    >
    > I lived in a remote area without internet access so never did any
    > updates other than the service packs, no internet no threats :)
    > I now have broadband and am fully up to date with all Microsoft
    > updates.
    > However this latest problem with KB977165 has really scared me.


    <snipped>

    Once more, Microsoft's filtering is acting up. :-(

    My response to you, Joe, may be found here:

    http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general/msg/d7a7bbf38fdf9694?hl=en
     
  5. joe

    joe Flightless Bird

  6. C

    C Flightless Bird

    joe wrote:
    > Thank you Daave,SK and Shenan for a very detailed and informative answer. I
    > intend to follow all the advice given here, especially waiting a couple of
    > days before installing the updates. A very good idea :)


    No, it's a very bad idea. They don't call it Exploit Wednesday for nothing.

    --
    C
     
  7. S K

    S K Flightless Bird

    On Feb 12, 11:49 am, "joe" <j...@ebox.com> wrote:
    > Thank you Daave,SK and Shenan for a very detailed and informative answer.I
    > intend to follow all the advice given here, especially waiting a couple of
    > days before installing the updates. A very good idea :)
    >
    > "Daave" <da...@example.com> wrote in message
    >
    > news:-Oaoqso$qKHA.4220@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
    >
    > > One more time...

    >
    > >http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general/msg...



    And definitely don't install updates in the middle of a busy work day
    when the computer absolutely MUST keep running. Sometimes what
    Microsoft thinks is funny turns out to not be very funny at all.
     
  8. joe

    joe Flightless Bird

    Don't see what you're getting at.


    "C" <nospamming@please.com.invalid> wrote in message
    news:hl41mi$ps3$1@speranza.aioe.org...
    > joe wrote:
    >> Thank you Daave,SK and Shenan for a very detailed and informative answer.
    >> I intend to follow all the advice given here, especially waiting a couple
    >> of days before installing the updates. A very good idea :)

    >
    > No, it's a very bad idea. They don't call it Exploit Wednesday for
    > nothing.
    >
    > --
    > C
     
  9. C

    C Flightless Bird

    joe wrote:
    > Don't see what you're getting at.
    >
    >
    > "C" <nospamming@please.com.invalid> wrote in message
    > news:hl41mi$ps3$1@speranza.aioe.org...
    >> joe wrote:
    >>> Thank you Daave,SK and Shenan for a very detailed and informative answer.
    >>> I intend to follow all the advice given here, especially waiting a couple
    >>> of days before installing the updates. A very good idea :)

    >> No, it's a very bad idea. They don't call it Exploit Wednesday for
    >> nothing.
    >>
    >> --
    >> C

    >
    >


    After patches are released on the second Tuesday of the month, the
    hackers get to work the next day on the computers of n00bs who haven't
    updated yet. Ergo, Exploit Wednesday immediately follows Update Tuesday.
    Do you understand now?

    --
    C
     
  10. Daave

    Daave Flightless Bird

    C wrote:
    > joe wrote:
    >> Don't see what you're getting at.
    >>
    >>
    >> "C" <nospamming@please.com.invalid> wrote in message
    >> news:hl41mi$ps3$1@speranza.aioe.org...
    >>> joe wrote:
    >>>> Thank you Daave,SK and Shenan for a very detailed and informative
    >>>> answer. I intend to follow all the advice given here, especially
    >>>> waiting a couple of days before installing the updates. A very
    >>>> good idea :)
    >>> No, it's a very bad idea. They don't call it Exploit Wednesday for
    >>> nothing.
    >>>
    >>> --
    >>> C

    >>
    >>

    >
    > After patches are released on the second Tuesday of the month, the
    > hackers get to work the next day on the computers of n00bs who haven't
    > updated yet. Ergo, Exploit Wednesday immediately follows Update
    > Tuesday. Do you understand now?


    I would imagine the hackers don't even wait.

    To OP:

    In order to be as safe as possible, you need to do the following:

    1. Regularly image your hard drive so you have something to fall back on
    if the need arises.

    2. Install the Microsoft critical security updates as soon as they come
    out. Chances are you won't run into any problems. And if you do, all you
    need to do is restore the most recent image you have.

    If you decide to manually update (and wait a few days), arguably you
    will be slightly less safe. Then again, if you have your firewall
    running and you avoid dodgy Web sites and don't click on spurious e-mail
    attachments and if your AV defintions are up-to-date, you should be fine
    for all intents and purposes. And again, if you run into any problems,
    you can still restore the most recent image of your hard drive. :)
     
  11. MowGreen

    MowGreen Flightless Bird

    S K wrote:
    > On Feb 12, 11:49 am, "joe"<j...@ebox.com> wrote:
    >> Thank you Daave,SK and Shenan for a very detailed and informative answer. I
    >> intend to follow all the advice given here, especially waiting a couple of
    >> days before installing the updates. A very good idea :)
    >>
    >> "Daave"<da...@example.com> wrote in message
    >>
    >> news:-Oaoqso$qKHA.4220@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
    >>
    >>> One more time...

    >>
    >>> http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general/msg...

    >
    >
    > And definitely don't install updates in the middle of a busy work day
    > when the computer absolutely MUST keep running. Sometimes what
    > Microsoft thinks is funny turns out to not be very funny at all.



    Speaking of "funny", get a load of this -

    Windows Activation Technologies Update for Windows 7
    http://windowsteamblog.com/blogs/ge...ologies-update-for-windows-7.aspx?PageIndex=2

    " In the coming days, we’ll be deploying a new update for Windows
    Activation Technologies, the set of built-in activation and validation
    components built into Windows 7. Called Windows Activation Technologies
    Update for Windows 7, this update will detect more than 70 known and
    potentially dangerous activation exploits. Activation exploits are
    sometimes called “hacks”, and attempt to bypass or compromise Windows’
    activation technologies. This new update is further evidence of
    Microsoft’s commitment to keeping customers and partners secure. "

    But wait ... it's get's even *funnier* -

    " Media Surveillance, an anti-piracy solutions company based in Germany,
    recently downloaded more than five hundred pirated copies of Windows 7
    (and Windows activation exploits) and found that 32% contained malicious
    code. "

    Yeah, the 'malicious code' is DRM and WGA. Doesn't this sound like an
    Abbott and Costello routine ?

    " DRM's on first, WGA's on second, but who's on third "
    " WAT's on third "
    " Who ? "
    " No, WAT's on third, Who's at my door ? "

    But wait, there's more ! -

    " The Update is designed to run on all editions of Windows 7, although
    we will distribute first to the Home Premium, Professional, Ultimate and
    Enterprise editions. It will be available online at
    www.microsoft.com/genuine beginning February 16 and on the Microsoft
    Download Center beginning February 17. Later this month, the update will
    also be offered through Windows Update as an ‘Important’ update.
    <snip>
    I’d like to stress that the Update is voluntary, which means that you
    can choose not to install it when you see it appear on Windows Update.
    <snip>
    How does it work? Once installed, the Update protects customers by
    identifying known activation exploits that may affect their PC
    experience. If any activation exploits are found, Windows will alert the
    customer and offer options for resolving the issue – in many cases, with
    just a few clicks."


    Yeah, right, " just a few clicks ". That's hystericaly NOT funny for
    anyone who's had to go through the False Positive Activation/Validation
    Dance and had to call in to get their OS Activated or Validated.

    And now for the final guffaw -

    " The Update will run periodic validations (initially every 90 days).
    During validation, Windows will download the latest ‘signatures’ that
    are used to identify new activation exploits – much like an anti-virus
    service.. "

    No thanks. My Windows 7 system has been Activated/Validated/Genuined and
    I *highly* doubt that this update will protect it " by making sure that
    the integrity of key licensing components remains intact. "

    No fish, try again.


    MowGreen
    ================
    *- 343 -* FDNY
    Never Forgotten
    ================

    banthecheck.com
    "Security updates should *never* have *non-security content* prechecked

















    MowGreen
    ================
    * -343-* FDNY
    Never Forgotten
    ================

    banthecheck.com
    "Security updates should *never* have *non-security content* prechecked
     
  12. (PeteCresswell)

    (PeteCresswell) Flightless Bird

    Per S K:
    >Yes, there are problems with updates from time to time. For testing
    >purposes, some organizations will update non-critical machines to see
    >if there are any ill effects before flooding all the company's
    >computers with the update. I usually wait a week or three


    Flipping it around: would anybody care to comment on the
    hazard(s) of never applying updates? Let's say "SP2" and call
    it a day?
    --
    PeteCresswell
     
  13. Shenan Stanley

    Shenan Stanley Flightless Bird

    (PeteCresswell) wrote:
    > Flipping it around: would anybody care to comment on the
    > hazard(s) of never applying updates? Let's say "SP2" and call
    > it a day?


    What's the situation? Where is this computer, what is it used for?

    --
    Shenan Stanley
    MS-MVP
    --
    How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
    http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
     
  14. Saucy

    Saucy Flightless Bird

    Hey, you might have something there. lol

    An unpatched rtm Windows XP will be infected within minutes if connected
    directly to the Internet:

    http://www.securityfocus.com/columnists/262



    "(PeteCresswell)" <x@y.Invalid> wrote in message
    news:ikjbn5t985qth3s7krp421dca06ug6p800@4ax.com...
    > Per S K:
    >>Yes, there are problems with updates from time to time. For testing
    >>purposes, some organizations will update non-critical machines to see
    >>if there are any ill effects before flooding all the company's
    >>computers with the update. I usually wait a week or three

    >
    > Flipping it around: would anybody care to comment on the
    > hazard(s) of never applying updates? Let's say "SP2" and call
    > it a day?
    > --
    > PeteCresswell
     
  15. PA Bear [MS MVP]

    PA Bear [MS MVP] Flightless Bird

    How long have you been so paranoid?

    joe wrote:
    > I have win xp pro sp3
    >
    > I lived in a remote area without internet access so never did any updates
    > other than the service packs, no internet no threats :)
    > I now have broadband and am fully up to date with all Microsoft updates.
    >
    > However this latest problem with KB977165 has really scared me. I am not
    > too
    > happy about using the recovery tool and how would I have found out the
    > solution anyway without a pc to access the Internet? ( I am still in a
    > remote area with no other pc's around )
    >
    > So I have a couple of questions for the experts here.
    >
    > Firstly, why did my update install perfectly when so many others had this
    > huge problem? Was I just lucky?
    >
    > Has this kind of thing happened before with bad updates?
    >
    > Can I feel safe in downloading these updates automatically.
    >
    > I would feel much better if you guys could give me the benefit of your
    > experience.
    >
    > TIA
     
  16. joe

    joe Flightless Bird

    What kind of response is that?

    "PA Bear [MS MVP]" <PABearMVP@gmail.com> wrote in message
    news:-OLyRxLFrKHA.3908@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
    > How long have you been so paranoid?
    >
    > joe wrote:
    >> I have win xp pro sp3
    >>
    >> I lived in a remote area without internet access so never did any updates
    >> other than the service packs, no internet no threats :)
    >> I now have broadband and am fully up to date with all Microsoft updates.
    >>
    >> However this latest problem with KB977165 has really scared me. I am not
    >> too
    >> happy about using the recovery tool and how would I have found out the
    >> solution anyway without a pc to access the Internet? ( I am still in a
    >> remote area with no other pc's around )
    >>
    >> So I have a couple of questions for the experts here.
    >>
    >> Firstly, why did my update install perfectly when so many others had this
    >> huge problem? Was I just lucky?
    >>
    >> Has this kind of thing happened before with bad updates?
    >>
    >> Can I feel safe in downloading these updates automatically.
    >>
    >> I would feel much better if you guys could give me the benefit of your
    >> experience.
    >>
    >> TIA

    >
     
  17. Unknown

    Unknown Flightless Bird

    Logical!
    "joe" <joe@ebox.com> wrote in message
    news:etMCa$GrKHA.3536@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
    > What kind of response is that?
    >
    > "PA Bear [MS MVP]" <PABearMVP@gmail.com> wrote in message
    > news:-OLyRxLFrKHA.3908@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
    >> How long have you been so paranoid?
    >>
    >> joe wrote:
    >>> I have win xp pro sp3
    >>>
    >>> I lived in a remote area without internet access so never did any
    >>> updates
    >>> other than the service packs, no internet no threats :)
    >>> I now have broadband and am fully up to date with all Microsoft updates.
    >>>
    >>> However this latest problem with KB977165 has really scared me. I am not
    >>> too
    >>> happy about using the recovery tool and how would I have found out the
    >>> solution anyway without a pc to access the Internet? ( I am still in a
    >>> remote area with no other pc's around )
    >>>
    >>> So I have a couple of questions for the experts here.
    >>>
    >>> Firstly, why did my update install perfectly when so many others had
    >>> this
    >>> huge problem? Was I just lucky?
    >>>
    >>> Has this kind of thing happened before with bad updates?
    >>>
    >>> Can I feel safe in downloading these updates automatically.
    >>>
    >>> I would feel much better if you guys could give me the benefit of your
    >>> experience.
    >>>
    >>> TIA

    >>

    >
    >
     
  18. PA Bear [MS MVP]

    PA Bear [MS MVP] Flightless Bird

    Sorry, it's been a long week in the trenches dealing with those
    BSOD/KB977165 issues here.

    >>> Firstly, why did my update install perfectly when so many others had
    >>> this
    >>> huge problem? Was I just lucky?


    Luck had nothing to do with it. Practicing 'Safe Hex' did: It's beginning
    to look like the vast majority of these BSODs were caused by hijackware
    infections, primarily W32/Alureon-variants.

    >>> Has this kind of thing happened before with bad updates?


    If your computer's security was compromised, yes.

    >>> Can I feel safe in downloading these updates automatically.


    Very generally speaking, yes. Should you ever need assistance...

    For home users, no-charge support is available by calling 1-866-PCSAFETY
    (and/or 1-866-234-6020 and/or 1-800-936-5700) in the United States and in
    Canada or by contacting your local Microsoft subsidiary. There is no-charge
    for support calls that are associated with security updates. When you call,
    clearly state that your problem is related to a Security Update and cite the
    update's KB number (e.g., KB999999).

    Or you can...

    Start a free Windows Update support incident request:
    https://support.microsoft.com/oas/default.aspx?gprid=6527

    Consumer Security Support home page & Microsoft Update Solution Center also
    offer support options
    https://consumersecuritysupport.microsoft.com/
    http://support.microsoft.com/ph/6527#tab3

    For more information about how to contact your local Microsoft subsidiary
    for security update support issues, visit the International Support Web
    site: http://support.microsoft.com/common/international.aspx
    --
    ~PA Bear

    joe wrote:
    > What kind of response is that?
    >
    >> How long have you been so paranoid?
    >>
    >> joe wrote:
    >>> I have win xp pro sp3
    >>>
    >>> I lived in a remote area without internet access so never did any
    >>> updates
    >>> other than the service packs, no internet no threats :)
    >>> I now have broadband and am fully up to date with all Microsoft updates.
    >>>
    >>> However this latest problem with KB977165 has really scared me. I am not
    >>> too
    >>> happy about using the recovery tool and how would I have found out the
    >>> solution anyway without a pc to access the Internet? ( I am still in a
    >>> remote area with no other pc's around )
    >>>
    >>> So I have a couple of questions for the experts here.
    >>>
    >>> Firstly, why did my update install perfectly when so many others had
    >>> this
    >>> huge problem? Was I just lucky?
    >>>
    >>> Has this kind of thing happened before with bad updates?
    >>>
    >>> Can I feel safe in downloading these updates automatically.
    >>>
    >>> I would feel much better if you guys could give me the benefit of your
    >>> experience.
    >>>
    >>> TIA
     
  19. joe

    joe Flightless Bird

    Up your arse.
    "Unknown" <unknown@unknown.kom> wrote in message
    news:-Od$p4fMrKHA.6064@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
    > Logical!
    > "joe" <joe@ebox.com> wrote in message
    > news:etMCa$GrKHA.3536@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
    >> What kind of response is that?
    >>
    >> "PA Bear [MS MVP]" <PABearMVP@gmail.com> wrote in message
    >> news:-OLyRxLFrKHA.3908@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
    >>> How long have you been so paranoid?
    >>>
    >>> joe wrote:
    >>>> I have win xp pro sp3
    >>>>
    >>>> I lived in a remote area without internet access so never did any
    >>>> updates
    >>>> other than the service packs, no internet no threats :)
    >>>> I now have broadband and am fully up to date with all Microsoft
    >>>> updates.
    >>>>
    >>>> However this latest problem with KB977165 has really scared me. I am
    >>>> not too
    >>>> happy about using the recovery tool and how would I have found out the
    >>>> solution anyway without a pc to access the Internet? ( I am still in a
    >>>> remote area with no other pc's around )
    >>>>
    >>>> So I have a couple of questions for the experts here.
    >>>>
    >>>> Firstly, why did my update install perfectly when so many others had
    >>>> this
    >>>> huge problem? Was I just lucky?
    >>>>
    >>>> Has this kind of thing happened before with bad updates?
    >>>>
    >>>> Can I feel safe in downloading these updates automatically.
    >>>>
    >>>> I would feel much better if you guys could give me the benefit of your
    >>>> experience.
    >>>>
    >>>> TIA
    >>>

    >>
    >>

    >
    >
     

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