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Are Updates dangerous!

J

joe

Flightless Bird
I have win xp pro sp3

I lived in a remote area without internet access so never did any updates
other than the service packs, no internet no threats :)
I now have broadband and am fully up to date with all Microsoft updates.

However this latest problem with KB977165 has really scared me. I am not too
happy about using the recovery tool and how would I have found out the
solution anyway without a pc to access the Internet? ( I am still in a
remote area with no other pc's around )

So I have a couple of questions for the experts here.

Firstly, why did my update install perfectly when so many others had this
huge problem? Was I just lucky?

Has this kind of thing happened before with bad updates?

Can I feel safe in downloading these updates automatically.

I would feel much better if you guys could give me the benefit of your
experience.

TIA
 
S

Shenan Stanley

Flightless Bird
joe wrote:
> I have win xp pro sp3
>
> I lived in a remote area without internet access so never did any
> updates other than the service packs, no internet no threats :)
> I now have broadband and am fully up to date with all Microsoft
> updates.
> However this latest problem with KB977165 has really scared me. I
> am not too happy about using the recovery tool and how would I have
> found out the solution anyway without a pc to access the Internet?
> ( I am still in a remote area with no other pc's around )
>
> So I have a couple of questions for the experts here.
>
> Firstly, why did my update install perfectly when so many others
> had this huge problem? Was I just lucky?
>
> Has this kind of thing happened before with bad updates?
>
> Can I feel safe in downloading these updates automatically.
>
> I would feel much better if you guys could give me the benefit of
> your experience.


First - because your computer did not have whatever problem the other people
have. The source of the problem (at this time) has not been identified with
any certainty. Yes, the patch may expose the issue on some systems - but if
the problem was the patch PURELY - you'd think it'd affected all systems,
wouldn't you?

Definitely - bad things happen. Most of the time the problem has been
something on the computer having a reaction to the update, not necessarily a
bad update. Recall this is a Windows Update - fixing something in Windows.
It cannot know what has been done to your machine in every possible way or
know how every possible program you could have would react when whatever it
is fixing is changed. This has happened with things like ZoneAlarm and some
antivirus applications in the last few years.

Can you? Yes - millions of people do. Should you? Depends on what your
other maintenance tasks are. Do you perform consistent and full backups of
your important data on external media? Do you have all the installation
media and product keys for everything you have installed stored in a safe
place away from the computer itself?

My experience is this:

Lightning can and will strike. It may/may not affect your computer, but if
you are prepared, it won't matter as much.

You're on high-speed now - likely on all the time - what protection do you
have in place keeping someone from hopping on your computer and doing
whatever they want?

How's your door locks? Someone/something always watching the computer?

Outlets well grounded and computer connected to an AVR capable Universal
Power Supply with battery backup?

All that media and product key stuff I spoke of earlier - is it in a
fire-resistant/water-resistant safe of some sort?

There are plenty of things to worry about out there - whether or not a patch
might mess up a computer that you should be backing up and protecting the
important stuff on anyway seems... minor. ;-)

--
Shenan Stanley
MS-MVP
--
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
 
S

S K

Flightless Bird
On Feb 12, 8:52 am, "joe" <j...@ebox.com> wrote:
> I have win xp pro sp3
>
> I lived in a remote area without internet access so never did any updates
> other than the service packs, no internet no threats :)
> I now have broadband and am fully up to date with all Microsoft updates.
>
> However this latest problem with KB977165 has really scared me. I am not too
> happy about using the recovery tool and how would I have found out the
> solution anyway without a pc to access the Internet? ( I am still in a
> remote area with no other pc's around )
>
> So I have a couple of questions for the experts here.
>
> Firstly, why did my update install perfectly when so many others had this
> huge problem? Was I just lucky?
>
> Has this kind of thing happened before with bad updates?
>
> Can I feel safe in downloading these updates automatically.
>
> I would feel much better if you guys could give me the benefit of your
> experience.
>
> TIA




Yes, there are problems with updates from time to time. For testing
purposes, some organizations will update non-critical machines to see
if there are any ill effects before flooding all the company's
computers with the update. I usually wait a week or three before
installing updates, waiting to see if my favorite newsletter mentions
any horror stories. It's free and dependable.

http://www.windowssecrets.com/
 
D

Daave

Flightless Bird
joe wrote:
> I have win xp pro sp3
>
> I lived in a remote area without internet access so never did any
> updates other than the service packs, no internet no threats :)
> I now have broadband and am fully up to date with all Microsoft
> updates.
> However this latest problem with KB977165 has really scared me.


<snipped>

Once more, Microsoft's filtering is acting up. :-(

My response to you, Joe, may be found here:

http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general/msg/d7a7bbf38fdf9694?hl=en
 
C

C

Flightless Bird
joe wrote:
> Thank you Daave,SK and Shenan for a very detailed and informative answer. I
> intend to follow all the advice given here, especially waiting a couple of
> days before installing the updates. A very good idea :)


No, it's a very bad idea. They don't call it Exploit Wednesday for nothing.

--
C
 
S

S K

Flightless Bird
On Feb 12, 11:49 am, "joe" <j...@ebox.com> wrote:
> Thank you Daave,SK and Shenan for a very detailed and informative answer.I
> intend to follow all the advice given here, especially waiting a couple of
> days before installing the updates. A very good idea :)
>
> "Daave" <da...@example.com> wrote in message
>
> news:-Oaoqso$qKHA.4220@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>
> > One more time...

>
> >http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general/msg...



And definitely don't install updates in the middle of a busy work day
when the computer absolutely MUST keep running. Sometimes what
Microsoft thinks is funny turns out to not be very funny at all.
 
J

joe

Flightless Bird
Don't see what you're getting at.


"C" <nospamming@please.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:hl41mi$ps3$1@speranza.aioe.org...
> joe wrote:
>> Thank you Daave,SK and Shenan for a very detailed and informative answer.
>> I intend to follow all the advice given here, especially waiting a couple
>> of days before installing the updates. A very good idea :)

>
> No, it's a very bad idea. They don't call it Exploit Wednesday for
> nothing.
>
> --
> C
 
C

C

Flightless Bird
joe wrote:
> Don't see what you're getting at.
>
>
> "C" <nospamming@please.com.invalid> wrote in message
> news:hl41mi$ps3$1@speranza.aioe.org...
>> joe wrote:
>>> Thank you Daave,SK and Shenan for a very detailed and informative answer.
>>> I intend to follow all the advice given here, especially waiting a couple
>>> of days before installing the updates. A very good idea :)

>> No, it's a very bad idea. They don't call it Exploit Wednesday for
>> nothing.
>>
>> --
>> C

>
>


After patches are released on the second Tuesday of the month, the
hackers get to work the next day on the computers of n00bs who haven't
updated yet. Ergo, Exploit Wednesday immediately follows Update Tuesday.
Do you understand now?

--
C
 
D

Daave

Flightless Bird
C wrote:
> joe wrote:
>> Don't see what you're getting at.
>>
>>
>> "C" <nospamming@please.com.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:hl41mi$ps3$1@speranza.aioe.org...
>>> joe wrote:
>>>> Thank you Daave,SK and Shenan for a very detailed and informative
>>>> answer. I intend to follow all the advice given here, especially
>>>> waiting a couple of days before installing the updates. A very
>>>> good idea :)
>>> No, it's a very bad idea. They don't call it Exploit Wednesday for
>>> nothing.
>>>
>>> --
>>> C

>>
>>

>
> After patches are released on the second Tuesday of the month, the
> hackers get to work the next day on the computers of n00bs who haven't
> updated yet. Ergo, Exploit Wednesday immediately follows Update
> Tuesday. Do you understand now?


I would imagine the hackers don't even wait.

To OP:

In order to be as safe as possible, you need to do the following:

1. Regularly image your hard drive so you have something to fall back on
if the need arises.

2. Install the Microsoft critical security updates as soon as they come
out. Chances are you won't run into any problems. And if you do, all you
need to do is restore the most recent image you have.

If you decide to manually update (and wait a few days), arguably you
will be slightly less safe. Then again, if you have your firewall
running and you avoid dodgy Web sites and don't click on spurious e-mail
attachments and if your AV defintions are up-to-date, you should be fine
for all intents and purposes. And again, if you run into any problems,
you can still restore the most recent image of your hard drive. :)
 
M

MowGreen

Flightless Bird
S K wrote:
> On Feb 12, 11:49 am, "joe"<j...@ebox.com> wrote:
>> Thank you Daave,SK and Shenan for a very detailed and informative answer. I
>> intend to follow all the advice given here, especially waiting a couple of
>> days before installing the updates. A very good idea :)
>>
>> "Daave"<da...@example.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:-Oaoqso$qKHA.4220@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>>
>>> One more time...

>>
>>> http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general/msg...

>
>
> And definitely don't install updates in the middle of a busy work day
> when the computer absolutely MUST keep running. Sometimes what
> Microsoft thinks is funny turns out to not be very funny at all.



Speaking of "funny", get a load of this -

Windows Activation Technologies Update for Windows 7
http://windowsteamblog.com/blogs/ge...ologies-update-for-windows-7.aspx?PageIndex=2

" In the coming days, we’ll be deploying a new update for Windows
Activation Technologies, the set of built-in activation and validation
components built into Windows 7. Called Windows Activation Technologies
Update for Windows 7, this update will detect more than 70 known and
potentially dangerous activation exploits. Activation exploits are
sometimes called “hacks”, and attempt to bypass or compromise Windows’
activation technologies. This new update is further evidence of
Microsoft’s commitment to keeping customers and partners secure. "

But wait ... it's get's even *funnier* -

" Media Surveillance, an anti-piracy solutions company based in Germany,
recently downloaded more than five hundred pirated copies of Windows 7
(and Windows activation exploits) and found that 32% contained malicious
code. "

Yeah, the 'malicious code' is DRM and WGA. Doesn't this sound like an
Abbott and Costello routine ?

" DRM's on first, WGA's on second, but who's on third "
" WAT's on third "
" Who ? "
" No, WAT's on third, Who's at my door ? "

But wait, there's more ! -

" The Update is designed to run on all editions of Windows 7, although
we will distribute first to the Home Premium, Professional, Ultimate and
Enterprise editions. It will be available online at
www.microsoft.com/genuine beginning February 16 and on the Microsoft
Download Center beginning February 17. Later this month, the update will
also be offered through Windows Update as an ‘Important’ update.
<snip>
I’d like to stress that the Update is voluntary, which means that you
can choose not to install it when you see it appear on Windows Update.
<snip>
How does it work? Once installed, the Update protects customers by
identifying known activation exploits that may affect their PC
experience. If any activation exploits are found, Windows will alert the
customer and offer options for resolving the issue – in many cases, with
just a few clicks."


Yeah, right, " just a few clicks ". That's hystericaly NOT funny for
anyone who's had to go through the False Positive Activation/Validation
Dance and had to call in to get their OS Activated or Validated.

And now for the final guffaw -

" The Update will run periodic validations (initially every 90 days).
During validation, Windows will download the latest ‘signatures’ that
are used to identify new activation exploits – much like an anti-virus
service.. "

No thanks. My Windows 7 system has been Activated/Validated/Genuined and
I *highly* doubt that this update will protect it " by making sure that
the integrity of key licensing components remains intact. "

No fish, try again.


MowGreen
================
*- 343 -* FDNY
Never Forgotten
================

banthecheck.com
"Security updates should *never* have *non-security content* prechecked

















MowGreen
================
* -343-* FDNY
Never Forgotten
================

banthecheck.com
"Security updates should *never* have *non-security content* prechecked
 
P

(PeteCresswell)

Flightless Bird
Per S K:
>Yes, there are problems with updates from time to time. For testing
>purposes, some organizations will update non-critical machines to see
>if there are any ill effects before flooding all the company's
>computers with the update. I usually wait a week or three


Flipping it around: would anybody care to comment on the
hazard(s) of never applying updates? Let's say "SP2" and call
it a day?
--
PeteCresswell
 
S

Shenan Stanley

Flightless Bird
(PeteCresswell) wrote:
> Flipping it around: would anybody care to comment on the
> hazard(s) of never applying updates? Let's say "SP2" and call
> it a day?


What's the situation? Where is this computer, what is it used for?

--
Shenan Stanley
MS-MVP
--
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
 
S

Saucy

Flightless Bird
Hey, you might have something there. lol

An unpatched rtm Windows XP will be infected within minutes if connected
directly to the Internet:

http://www.securityfocus.com/columnists/262



"(PeteCresswell)" <x@y.Invalid> wrote in message
news:ikjbn5t985qth3s7krp421dca06ug6p800@4ax.com...
> Per S K:
>>Yes, there are problems with updates from time to time. For testing
>>purposes, some organizations will update non-critical machines to see
>>if there are any ill effects before flooding all the company's
>>computers with the update. I usually wait a week or three

>
> Flipping it around: would anybody care to comment on the
> hazard(s) of never applying updates? Let's say "SP2" and call
> it a day?
> --
> PeteCresswell
 
P

PA Bear [MS MVP]

Flightless Bird
How long have you been so paranoid?

joe wrote:
> I have win xp pro sp3
>
> I lived in a remote area without internet access so never did any updates
> other than the service packs, no internet no threats :)
> I now have broadband and am fully up to date with all Microsoft updates.
>
> However this latest problem with KB977165 has really scared me. I am not
> too
> happy about using the recovery tool and how would I have found out the
> solution anyway without a pc to access the Internet? ( I am still in a
> remote area with no other pc's around )
>
> So I have a couple of questions for the experts here.
>
> Firstly, why did my update install perfectly when so many others had this
> huge problem? Was I just lucky?
>
> Has this kind of thing happened before with bad updates?
>
> Can I feel safe in downloading these updates automatically.
>
> I would feel much better if you guys could give me the benefit of your
> experience.
>
> TIA
 
J

joe

Flightless Bird
What kind of response is that?

"PA Bear [MS MVP]" <PABearMVP@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:-OLyRxLFrKHA.3908@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
> How long have you been so paranoid?
>
> joe wrote:
>> I have win xp pro sp3
>>
>> I lived in a remote area without internet access so never did any updates
>> other than the service packs, no internet no threats :)
>> I now have broadband and am fully up to date with all Microsoft updates.
>>
>> However this latest problem with KB977165 has really scared me. I am not
>> too
>> happy about using the recovery tool and how would I have found out the
>> solution anyway without a pc to access the Internet? ( I am still in a
>> remote area with no other pc's around )
>>
>> So I have a couple of questions for the experts here.
>>
>> Firstly, why did my update install perfectly when so many others had this
>> huge problem? Was I just lucky?
>>
>> Has this kind of thing happened before with bad updates?
>>
>> Can I feel safe in downloading these updates automatically.
>>
>> I would feel much better if you guys could give me the benefit of your
>> experience.
>>
>> TIA

>
 
U

Unknown

Flightless Bird
Logical!
"joe" <joe@ebox.com> wrote in message
news:etMCa$GrKHA.3536@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> What kind of response is that?
>
> "PA Bear [MS MVP]" <PABearMVP@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:-OLyRxLFrKHA.3908@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>> How long have you been so paranoid?
>>
>> joe wrote:
>>> I have win xp pro sp3
>>>
>>> I lived in a remote area without internet access so never did any
>>> updates
>>> other than the service packs, no internet no threats :)
>>> I now have broadband and am fully up to date with all Microsoft updates.
>>>
>>> However this latest problem with KB977165 has really scared me. I am not
>>> too
>>> happy about using the recovery tool and how would I have found out the
>>> solution anyway without a pc to access the Internet? ( I am still in a
>>> remote area with no other pc's around )
>>>
>>> So I have a couple of questions for the experts here.
>>>
>>> Firstly, why did my update install perfectly when so many others had
>>> this
>>> huge problem? Was I just lucky?
>>>
>>> Has this kind of thing happened before with bad updates?
>>>
>>> Can I feel safe in downloading these updates automatically.
>>>
>>> I would feel much better if you guys could give me the benefit of your
>>> experience.
>>>
>>> TIA

>>

>
>
 
P

PA Bear [MS MVP]

Flightless Bird
Sorry, it's been a long week in the trenches dealing with those
BSOD/KB977165 issues here.

>>> Firstly, why did my update install perfectly when so many others had
>>> this
>>> huge problem? Was I just lucky?


Luck had nothing to do with it. Practicing 'Safe Hex' did: It's beginning
to look like the vast majority of these BSODs were caused by hijackware
infections, primarily W32/Alureon-variants.

>>> Has this kind of thing happened before with bad updates?


If your computer's security was compromised, yes.

>>> Can I feel safe in downloading these updates automatically.


Very generally speaking, yes. Should you ever need assistance...

For home users, no-charge support is available by calling 1-866-PCSAFETY
(and/or 1-866-234-6020 and/or 1-800-936-5700) in the United States and in
Canada or by contacting your local Microsoft subsidiary. There is no-charge
for support calls that are associated with security updates. When you call,
clearly state that your problem is related to a Security Update and cite the
update's KB number (e.g., KB999999).

Or you can...

Start a free Windows Update support incident request:
https://support.microsoft.com/oas/default.aspx?gprid=6527

Consumer Security Support home page & Microsoft Update Solution Center also
offer support options
https://consumersecuritysupport.microsoft.com/
http://support.microsoft.com/ph/6527#tab3

For more information about how to contact your local Microsoft subsidiary
for security update support issues, visit the International Support Web
site: http://support.microsoft.com/common/international.aspx
--
~PA Bear

joe wrote:
> What kind of response is that?
>
>> How long have you been so paranoid?
>>
>> joe wrote:
>>> I have win xp pro sp3
>>>
>>> I lived in a remote area without internet access so never did any
>>> updates
>>> other than the service packs, no internet no threats :)
>>> I now have broadband and am fully up to date with all Microsoft updates.
>>>
>>> However this latest problem with KB977165 has really scared me. I am not
>>> too
>>> happy about using the recovery tool and how would I have found out the
>>> solution anyway without a pc to access the Internet? ( I am still in a
>>> remote area with no other pc's around )
>>>
>>> So I have a couple of questions for the experts here.
>>>
>>> Firstly, why did my update install perfectly when so many others had
>>> this
>>> huge problem? Was I just lucky?
>>>
>>> Has this kind of thing happened before with bad updates?
>>>
>>> Can I feel safe in downloading these updates automatically.
>>>
>>> I would feel much better if you guys could give me the benefit of your
>>> experience.
>>>
>>> TIA
 
J

joe

Flightless Bird
Up your arse.
"Unknown" <unknown@unknown.kom> wrote in message
news:-Od$p4fMrKHA.6064@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> Logical!
> "joe" <joe@ebox.com> wrote in message
> news:etMCa$GrKHA.3536@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>> What kind of response is that?
>>
>> "PA Bear [MS MVP]" <PABearMVP@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:-OLyRxLFrKHA.3908@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>>> How long have you been so paranoid?
>>>
>>> joe wrote:
>>>> I have win xp pro sp3
>>>>
>>>> I lived in a remote area without internet access so never did any
>>>> updates
>>>> other than the service packs, no internet no threats :)
>>>> I now have broadband and am fully up to date with all Microsoft
>>>> updates.
>>>>
>>>> However this latest problem with KB977165 has really scared me. I am
>>>> not too
>>>> happy about using the recovery tool and how would I have found out the
>>>> solution anyway without a pc to access the Internet? ( I am still in a
>>>> remote area with no other pc's around )
>>>>
>>>> So I have a couple of questions for the experts here.
>>>>
>>>> Firstly, why did my update install perfectly when so many others had
>>>> this
>>>> huge problem? Was I just lucky?
>>>>
>>>> Has this kind of thing happened before with bad updates?
>>>>
>>>> Can I feel safe in downloading these updates automatically.
>>>>
>>>> I would feel much better if you guys could give me the benefit of your
>>>> experience.
>>>>
>>>> TIA
>>>

>>
>>

>
>
 
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