Lindows will ignore rumors

[Kraig]

Lindows needs to start answering the rumers more effectivly.

What value would that provide?

1. It takes time to try and stomp out rumors. I couldn't agree with Sir Winston Churchill more.

"A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on." Sir Winston Churchill

2. Even when they hear the truth, some people don't like the fact that we're a commercial enterprise. They don't like that we're letting more people (WalMart shoppers even! For horror!!!) into the club. How many Democrats do you know who are swayed with Republican rhetoric? It would for the most part be a waste of our time and breath.

3. The time we'd spend in TRYING to "answer the rumors" would be taken away from us doing any real work. Me even typing this response pulls me away from something that would be far more productive to taking Linux to the masses. Wouldn't you rather I was helping make LindowsOS better than typing this response? I know I would. I wouldn't bother with this comment elsewhere, but I make it here out of respect for keeping OUR customers informed.

4. Even if we did invest the time to "answer the rumors," and Lindows.com got every dollar ever spent by "the community" for a Linux desktop OS, we do NOT have a business. Mandrake + Lycoris + SuSE + Xandros + Insert Linux Desktop OS here = Not enough in revenue to support a business. It's the 95% of people who have never seen or touched Linux where the real opportunity lies. While others were bickering over this unbelievably silly nonsense, we released our Educational Licensing program, the MP3.com Edition, and the Lindows Media Computer. Now, which do you think WalMart cares more about?

5. The summit is SOLD OUT. A few companies dropped out, but more main-stream companies (Epson, Earthlink, Tech TV, etc. were happy to take their place.

Look at all the cool booths that will be at the summit...


Fonts
Books
Laptops
Web Filtering
Virus Protection
Internet Service Providers
Printing
Games
Graphics Editing
Training
Software Applications
Media PCs
Operating Systems
Magazines
Desktop PCs
Music
Migration
QA
Tablet PCs
Office Suites
Education
Installing Applications
USB Devices
Networking
Hot Swapable Drives
Cool Linux Devices


We don't compete in the vast majority of these areas, and yet that's what people will walk away from knowing about Linux who attend the show.

And as I have already stated, it was NOT Michael who insisted he be the keynote speaker. That was ME. His message fits with the theme of this summit. The fact that I've explained this already, but many didn't get that message, just proves how hard it is to educate people about things. Look at how many people still talk about LindowsOS running MS Windows programs, something we stopped messaging months ago.

Educating the masses about something takes time, money, energy, and resources. We would much rather spend those resources on educating the masses about how cool Linux is, not answering our critics who will probably never agree with anything we do.

Kevin

Pulled from Lindow forum.

https://forum.lindows.com/forum/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=news&Number=67457&page=&view=&sb=&o=

[Davepet]

To anyone who has planned on going to this "conference", the list of exibitors is here:
http://www.desktoplinuxsummit.org/main/exhibitor.html

If you have visited this list before, you will notice that it has changed considerably.

I hope you didn't book your trip hoping to find any reps from any distro other than Suse or Lindows..

There will most likely be much useful info at this event, but it is also likely to be much less of an event than it was promising to be.

At least Lindows has gotten a great deal of free publicity out of this....

Dave

[robbie_n]

When Lycoris withdrew earlier this week (http://www.lycoris.org/article.php?sid=134&mode=&order=0), they stated quite bluntly that the ousting of Perens from the keynote speaker's slot and the withdrawal of companies such as HP meant that the conference had become too vendor-specific. DesktopLinux.com had already pulled out (http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS4417146902.html) by this time, citing similar concerns.

Frankly, I agree - the conference, while still worthwhile, is now quite Lindows-centric. This can be demonstrated by looking at the list of companies involved (http://www.desktoplinuxsummit.org/main/exhibitor.html):

Convenor
Lindows.com

Partners
Bitstream (provides "Deluxe Font Collection" for Click-n-Run (http://www.lindows.com/lindows_products_details.php?id=9164))
Brobeck (Lindows.com's law firm)
Earthlink (provides ISP services for LindowsOS users (http://www.lindows.com/lindows_news_pressreleases_archives.php?id=17))
Idruna Software (provides Photogenics for Click-n-Run (http://www.lindows.com/lindows_products_details.php?id=9104))
Microtel (sells LindowsOS Certified PCs (http://www.lindows.com/lindows_feature_preinstall.php))
MP3.com (former Robertson company; partner for LindowsOS MP3 Edition (http://info.lindows.com/mp3edition/))
Nova Computech (sells LindowsOS Certified PCs (http://www.lindows.com/lindows_feature_preinstall.php))
Sun Microsystems, Inc. (provides StarOffice for Click-n-Run (http://www.lindows.com/lindows_products_details.php?id=8981))
Speakeasy (provides ISP services for LindowsOS users (http://www.lindows.com/lindows_news_pressreleases_archives.php?id=25))

Other (Linux-related)
Central Command (prospective Lindows.com partner)
theKompany (prospective Lindows.com partner)
Linux Journal (media)
Linux Professional Institute
NeTraverse (prospective Lindows.com partner)
OpenOffice.org (probably present because Sun Microsystems, Inc. is)
SuSE
TransGaming Technologies (prospective Lindows.com partner)

Other (General I.T.)
Cerberian
Epson (some Linux support)
GarageGames (some Linux software)
Knowbase Networks
Opus Solutions (may be a prospective Lindows partner)
Qualsoftest (local company)
StepUp Computing (prospective Lindows partner)
San Diego Software Industry Council (local industry body)
TechTV (media)

General
Borders

As you can see, a large number of the attendees are either partners or prospective partners. The rest are mostly local businesses and the occasional standout (notably SuSE, Epson and Borders). Lycoris was indeed right in calling the Summit vendor-centric. Whether that means it isn't valuable is another matter. I do believe that the Summit is still worthwhile, but that it could have been much more so.

Your way reaching with the prospective partners thing.

Lycoris uses kapital
Lycoris uses mozilla from netscape
Lycoris uses OO from Sun
Lycoris uses Winex

You see its easy to say what ever. Truth is Lycoris is only a project with a few people involved. They probably couldn't even pay the entry fee.

[robbie_n]

Not quite true :-)

Lycoris uses kapital
Lycoris uses mozilla from netscape
Lycoris uses OO from Sun
Lycoris uses Winex


Lycoris has dropped Kapital
Lycoris has no strategic alliance with Netscape - Lindows.com does (sort of)
Lycoris has no strategic alliance with Sun Microsystems - Lindows.com does
Lycoris does have a strategic alliance with TransGaming, but then they're not holding a Summit.

The point was that most of the attendees are involved with Lindows.com, making it a bit of a one-company show. If Lycoris did something similar, inviting OpenOffice, TransGaming, Caldera/SCO, Microtel, Ericom Software, Vivitar, Wal-Mart, etc., I would have the same criticism for them - that it wasn't a "Desktop Linux Summit", rather a "Lycoris Summit".

You seem to be forgetting that Lycoris WAS invited and dropped VOLUNTARILY. More like they had an adolescent fit. Maybe they should concentrate on getting out a stable release with something newer than KDE 2.2.2.2.2.2 instead of having childish temper tantrum. They probably didn't have the money to attend and wanted to put the blame on Lindows. The game pak with all 5 free games for 30 bucks has been a total joke. Oh and the reworked Open Office with new icons for 50 bucks has probably only sold a grand total of about 5 copies. They need to take a serious look at their failures and stop pointing the finger at others. Please some of these other distros have been absolute total failures and they want to blame Lindows for there own problems. I'm glad that Lindows staff won't stupe to thier level and return fire. They have chosen the high road and that makes them all the more of a leader.

[robbie_n]

Well, I think we'd better just agree to disagree. I don't want to start a flame war over this :-(

[Kraig]

Lindows has spent over 100,000 US dollars on the event. Common courtesy says they get the Key speaker slot. Broke distros didn't spend jack and now they are whining. They just don't want to compared to Lindows when Lindows revels mega cool stuff like a new release and new systems and a tablet pc etc. and all they have is old tired KDE 2.2.2 and a walmart deal that lindows paved the way for. What has Lycoris sponsored? Hmm What projects have they sponsored?? I can't think of a single one. Have they contributed financial resources to any? Hint the list is very long for Lindows. These people need to get their own houses in order before they start pointing fingers at others. Lindows is fighting Microsoft and Lycoris is trying to pick fights with Lindows and so far is only getting ignored. I could pick Lycoris a part. It would be to easy. How many programs work in there version of CNR? 20 maybe? They are a none contender with no real hope of a break through. What the user base? 200 - 300 people maybe? I think you need to be less critical of Lindows and take a look at Lycoris. Ask them way don't they sponsor some projects and do somthing productive instead of whining about others peoples success.

[robbie_n]

Well, technically, you're right of course :-)

Just bear in mind that Lycoris don't have the luxury of having loads of money to sponser these sort of events, although I'm sure they'd like to.

Let me try to make myself clearer - Lycoris has said they pulled out because they believe that what had begun as an Industry event that was generously sponsered by Lindows.com become a Lindows.com event. I agree with that assessment, but still think it's worthwhile. I've said as much in this thread.

I'm not trying to bash Lindows for running the show themselves, merely pointing out that that is what they're doing. Lindows have also sponsered KDE-Look.org, and helped bring Linux to a whole new market by pioneering Microtel machines at Wal-Mart. Likewise, Lycoris, with what little resources they have, have contributed code - although not money - to numerous projects and distributions, including OpenOffice.org, Ark Linux and Blue Linux, as well as intellectual property to a much wider audience. The individual contributions of bith companies to Linux have furthered the cause immensely.

You're correct to argue that Lindows has made the greater financial contribution. That doesn't mean, however, that it cannot be true that the company has altered the original purpose of the Desktop Linux Summit to suit its own ends. In my opinion, it probably has. The sparsity of other Linux companies indicates IMO that other companies have reached this conclusion as well.

Now read my comment from earlier:


I do believe that the Summit is still worthwhile, but that it could have been much more so.


I'd like to make a comparison to MacWorld at this point. MacWorld is much more vendor-centric than the present Desktop Linux Summit. After all, Macs form only a fraction of the overall PC market nowdays. But it is an established vendor specific event that is known to be an Apple-run show. Now, if Lindows had announced a "Lindows.com Desktop Linux Summit" and said that "everyone's invited - including the 'competition'!", it would have laid out the ground rules from the start. Nobody begrudges Lindows its place in the sun. But instead, whether through deliberate policy or (as is more likely) a last minute change, Bruce Perens was replaced by Michael Robertson.

This offended both DesktopLinux.com and, more importantly, HP, who then both withdrew their support. Now, second to IBM, who wasn't coming in the first place, HPQ is the Linux vendor. Its withdrawal more than anything was probably the reason behind Lycoris backing out, because without the 'giant' there, the former balance of the Summit - a balance that would have been there even with Michael Robertson speaking in the keynote - was now lacking. In a sense, the withdrawal of Lycoris is a symptom, not a root cause in itself. The real questions to be asking are "why did HP withdraw?" and "why did DesktopLinux.com withdraw?".

Well, you can bet that HP got annoyed when Perens was ousted from the keynote speaker's position - he is an HP employee, after all. Whether they have the same concerns as DesktopLinux.com is unknown at this time.

Much more telling is DesktopLinux.com's press release (http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS4417146902.html), from which I've taken the most relevent part:


[...] Last week, Lindows.com suddenly and unilaterally directed DesktopLinux.com to substitute a new agenda for the old one -- one that had not been discussed or reviewed with the Advisory Board. The agenda was a completely new one, with major changes such as substitution of Lindows.com CEO Michael Robertson for Open Source advocate Bruce Perens in the conference welcome keynote slot.

Based on this blatant disregard for the Advisory Board, which we felt was crucial to the vendor-neutrality of the conference, and the unilateral substitution of a completely new agenda, which is, of course, the heart of the conference, DesktopLinux.com no longer can lend its good name and dynamic community to supporting the event. Lindows.com is certainly within their rights to host a conference on any subject whatsoever, but DesktopLinux.com is committed to the principle of vendor neutrality in its editorial content and initiatives, and our continued support for the conference as its major media sponsor would constitute a violation of the trust that the community places in our objectivity.


The press release makes clear that DesktopLinux.com at least believed that the Summit would be vendor-neutral. When they discovered otherwise, they withdrew. That's the rub of the problem - not who's funding what, who owns the event, or who's being petty, but the fact that Lindows changed the nature of the event at what amounts to the last minute.

[Kraig]

You're correct to argue that Lindows has made the greater financial contribution. That doesn't mean, however, that it cannot be true that the company has altered the original purpose of the Desktop Linux Summit to suit its own ends. In my opinion, it probably has.

Lindows is the one that came up with the Desktop summit. I think they are the ones that can say what the original purpose was. They hired desktoplinux.com to organize the event. They then got themselves fired for altering the original concept. It was supposed to be a customer oriented event and they decided to have the key speaker be a developer. Thats not what Kevin the president of Lindows had in mind. He wanted Michael who is a much better speaker to be the Key speaker. After all its Michaels money that is hosting the event. Then Lycoris and company had a fit and whined because then they knew they couldn't compete and couldn't afford it any ways and pulled.

[TRN]

There were many people who left LWE in the summer and thought that there needed to be a vendor and project neutral meeting. Tux Reports was the first to publish this idea back in August. Red Hat even agreed to help and so did DesktopLinux.com. Tux Reports stopped because DesktopLinux.com announced working with Lindows.com. We were also led to believe it would be vendor neutral and that the summit would support projects that didn't have money. I'll say it again - maybe this idea needs to be pushed forward. Tux Reports is willing to help put together a vendor neutral - project neutral gathering (not a summit and not a comdex).

All of this bickering is one reason why people laugh at Linux users. Is this all that Linux users do during their day? Complain complain complain.

:roll:

OK. After re-reading this post - I'm ready. Enough talk. It's time for action !


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